A Farang Living In Thailand

[Richard4849]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Oh, right...there are "personal situations" which prevent these people from leaving. Righty-o.

Richard, i've spent some time on this thread this morning. i think its time you grew up. this is not a flame, rather a reaity check.

You've already been given some sound advice on here but you seem very blinkered.

Thanks for your opinion.

What advice is it that I have been given again? To "grow up" and realize that I don't really like Thailand at all?

[trisailer]

The simple answer to this issue is that most of the men that I know here are not very balanced people. I can't for the life of me understand how a man can get to his 50's and 60' and still have no clue how to balance his life. I say if your in that age group and you find yourself fighting life, struggling with it most days than maybe you should consider ways to change it.

There have been several studies that suggest that over 70% of old people had regrets about the choices they made in life. If you look at the amount of medications that most people are on to help them deal with their life and that includes alcohol it is almost as though they have not learned a thing about managing their lives to produce a balanced outcome.

I know a few guys here that fit that pattern. They are in over their heads and have no clue how to change it. They get up every day reacting to whatever is happening around them without a single thought to learning how to be proactive and make their life INTO what they want it to be. It's sad really. When they post here about how terrible living here is they are really saying that they don't have a clue of how to properly manage their lives. Do they understand how stupid it makes them look.

A balanced person can be happy almost anywhere and under almost any circumstance. A balanced person takes responsibility for his actions or inactions instead of blaming others or blaming Thailand. A balanced person has the courage to make the changes in his life that will change his thinking. A balanced person does not try to drag everyone else down into his pit of despair.

Edited June 6, 2011 by trisailer

[Richb2004v2]

It's amazing to me that someone would try a dozen different countries and then settle on Thailand, without being part of the sex thing! Which were the other countries tried before? To retire here when one could retire somewhere nice is amazing. It must be the sense of grandeur as one drives around the broken roads in ones luxury motor, that's all I can think.

[trisailer]

It's amazing to me that someone would try a dozen different countries and then settle on Thailand, without being part of the sex thing! Which were the other countries tried before? To retire here when one could retire somewhere nice is amazing. It must be the sense of grandeur as one drives around the broken roads in ones luxury motor, that's all I can think.

When I came here I enjoyed the Pattaya "lifestyle" for a year and a half. I had a lot of fun with it and met and got to know some fun loving women. I was fortunate to meet a woman who I saw as a once in a lifetime opportunity and I changed my lifestyle. It was very easy for me to do because my life is not about the things outside of me. If you have a strong core than you can enjoy your life regardless of what your doing or what is happening around you. (I have to admit though that if you live in east Pattaya out by the lake, that road would be hard to take day after day.) The solution is to just slow down going over those potholes.

It is our ability to adapt that keeps us balanced. I am completey happy with enjoying my home and playing around with my plants and fish and my computer stuff. If I was instantly transported to a different environment I would quickly adapt and find enjoyment in that place. The place you live has nothing to do with happiness. Nothing! it is all in your head. At different times in my life I have been limited by money so I just did things that were free like hiking and bicycling. This stuff is all in your head and you can change it in an instant if you just use your head.

[GarryP]

Sadly, lots of those people have little to go back to...they aren't usually the cream of society.

I resemble that comment.

[Rumpole]

The simple answer to this issue is that most of the men that I know here are not very balanced people. I can't for the life of me understand how a man can get to his 50's and 60' and still have no clue how to balance his life. I say if your in that age group and you find yourself fighting life, struggling with it most days than maybe you should consider ways to change it.

There have been several studies that suggest that over 70% of old people had regrets about the choices they made in life. If you look at the amount of medications that most people are on to help them deal with their life and that includes alcohol it is almost as though they have not learned a thing about managing their lives to produce a balanced outcome.

I know a few guys here that fit that pattern. They are in over their heads and have no clue how to change it. They get up every day reacting to whatever is happening around them without a single thought to learning how to be proactive and make their life INTO what they want it to be. It's sad really. When they post here about how terrible living here is they are really saying that they don't have a clue of how to properly manage their lives. Do they understand how stupid it makes them look.

A balanced person can be happy almost anywhere and under almost any circumstance. A balanced person takes responsibility for his actions or inactions instead of blaming others or blaming Thailand. A balanced person has the courage to make the changes in his life that will change his thinking. A balanced person does not try to drag everyone else down into his pit of despair.

You make some valid points, however surely it is in everyone’s interest if some of the people you describe are actively discouraged from moving to Thailand in the first place? Which is where resources such as this board, presenting a diversity of experiences and opinions can be of assistance in the decision-making process, conveying the message that perhaps not everything in the garden is lovely, and that not everyone’s experiences are overwhelmingly positive. I only wish that some of this information had been available to me, before I decided to work in Thailand. It would have given considerable pause for thought. However it was only with the advent of the internet that some of Thailand’s dirty little secrets (such as the atrocious education system, the blatantly entrenched xenophobia and the Byzantine and ever-changing immigration regime) began to emerge from under the rock.

Realizing that Thailand is not the place in which you wish to spend the rest of your life (whether that realization comes after 20 minutes or 20 years in the country) is not in any way indicative of some kind of psychosis or serious character flaw. Simply packing up one’s life and extricating oneself when that realization does eventually dawn may not be as easy nor as expedient as some posters here seem to think, for any number of reasons.

Comments such as 'don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out' are both risible and demonstrative of the 'I'm alright Jack' attitudes so prevalent among many of the Western expats in Thailand; attitudes which, incidentally, some of the better-informed and more perceptive Thais find perplexing, as their expat communities overseas tend to be far more inclusive and supportive.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Rumpole

[jdinasia]

Does me being white also afford me some benefits? Yes. Does being white also add a really great benefit .... that I am outside of (not above and not below) the Thai social system? Yes. I can associate with everyone from Generals to Tuk-Tuk drivers on a different level than Thais themselves can, just from being outside of the social system. ... Very simply, life is too short to live somewhere where you are unhappy ...

These two points are, in my opinion, centrally important. Existing outside the local social system makes life so much more interesting than if you have been pigeon-holed into a particular slot with accompanying expected behavior within the rigid hierarchical Thai social system. You have more freedom to operate as an individual without being restrained as much as a regular Thai person is. Then, couple that with economic independence, as is the case with many foreigners in Thailand, and you have a really good situation to experience stimulating and relatively safe situations. It is not clear to me how many ex-pats recognize this feature of their Thai experience, but they should.

Live on, jdinasia!

Walt

Agree, Agree - Spot-on both!

Thanks folks ....

Life is too short to choose to be unhappy and thus I would never willingly choose to live in a place that made me unhappy! Some of the posters on this thread that are unhappy with Thailand seem to have made a decision to leave over a year ago ... but are still here. Some are posting from other countries because they HAVE left but appear bitter enough to still resent the time they chose to be in Thailand.

Again, I do pity (and yes, I am aware that pity is not so nice) those that have made bad life decisions and are stuck here, but frankly they chose to make those decisions.

Choose happiness! (or at least contentment!)

edited to get the quotes correct.

Edited June 6, 2011 by jdinasia

[EirikJohannesen]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

All these negative, making the farang reputation even worse.

I also can not understand that they bothered to sit here miserable day in and day out.

You see these farang go around and complaining, yelling at all Thai people.

They come to Thailand and think they have an exemption card to behave like monkeys.

[EirikJohannesen]

Maybe Thailand is fed up by Frang that will not integrate into society, farang who insist on living western lifestyles, refuses to learn the language, refuses to comply with visa regulations, etc.

Maybe it will be easier for us farang living here when we begin to correct us by the host's rules and culture.

Thailand has always had big problems with immigrants that cause the country great economic losses and crime.

If you want to make money here so you should have a work permit.

Oh..... you mean brainwashed!!

Clearly a large group of farang who need a not so little brainwashing before they come to Thailand. Get the cave man out of them.

[Rumpole]

Some are posting from other countries because they HAVE left but appear bitter enough to still resent the time they chose to be in Thailand.

Some of us drop in here from time-to-time to remind ourselves why we left.

Why do you condemn views which are not in accord with your own as 'bitterness', and how are my experiences and perceptions any less valid than yours? Simply because one no longer lives in a particular country does not mean that all memory of the place should be expunged, nor that one should not take a continued intellectual interest in what is happening there. It is called having an enquiring mind - a commodity which is admittedly in short supply in Thailand.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Rumpole

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Awoh...a much simpler answer would be that we really do like it here. It's more the unsuccessful people (financially and life-wise) who end up bitter, not those of us who have come here and done well for ourselves.

When people jump (in obvious anger) on any person who might say anything negative about Thailand (the love it or leave it and don't let the door hit you in the....), that shows "mental weakness." People who "have done well" in life, in general, don't retire to a a place like Thailand. There are much better places to be if you have the money. Thailand has never been a destination for the rich. It has traditionally been a place for sexpat rejects from their own country and others (much better off than the rejects) who are trying to make their savings/pensions go further. I think there are a lot of expats here who a deluding themselves about their "choice." They are stuck here and know it. I think there is a lot of bitterness underneath the surface. Many of them remind me of Thai people in general--smile on the surface but anger and a frown underneath. Some are, of course, happy with their choice and have made it here. But not every person who points out a problem in Thailand is a miserable, poor psycho ready to plunge off a building. Some actually know what they are talking about and have enough money to leave and start a new life in another place.

[Richard4849]

Awoh...a much simpler answer would be that we really do like it here. It's more the unsuccessful people (financially and life-wise) who end up bitter, not those of us who have come here and done well for ourselves.

When people jump (in obvious anger) on any person who might say anything negative about Thailand (the love it or leave it and don't let the door hit you in the....), that shows "mental weakness." People who "have done well" in life, in general, don't retire to a a place like Thailand. There are much better places to be if you have the money. Thailand has never been a destination for the rich. It has traditionally been a place for sexpat rejects from their own country and others (much better off than the rejects) who are trying to make their savings/pensions go further. I think there are a lot of expats here who a deluding themselves about their "choice." They are stuck here and know it. I think there is a lot of bitterness underneath the surface. Many of them remind me of Thai people in general--smile on the surface but anger and a frown underneath. Some are, of course, happy with their choice and have made it here. But not every person who points out a problem in Thailand is a miserable, poor psycho ready to plunge off a building. Some actually know what they are talking about and have enough money to leave and start a new life in another place.

1. I have never shown anger with anyone here -- even those publishing patent lies ("there is no permanent residence or citizenship available for foreigners", "foreigners never win a court case against a Thai", bla bla blah);

2. I'm not retired here. I work for a living, and could work anywhere in the world I wanted -- like many expats (but granted perhaps not the crowd you hang with). This is where I happen to want to be -- as much as you find that to be an impossibility;

3. You say there are "much better places to retire if you have the money" -- clearly subjective, and clearly a whole lot of people disagree. Who do you think are living in all those multi-million dollar villas on Phuket? There is a whole other class of retirees apart from the Pattaya dregs. Get out and meet some of them, perhaps?

Your opinion is your own, but plain old lies, stereotypes, and generalizations do not do you or your argument any good.

[ExpatJ]

Awoh...a much simpler answer would be that we really do like it here. It's more the unsuccessful people (financially and life-wise) who end up bitter, not those of us who have come here and done well for ourselves.

When people jump (in obvious anger) on any person who might say anything negative about Thailand (the love it or leave it and don't let the door hit you in the....), that shows "mental weakness." People who "have done well" in life, in general, don't retire to a a place like Thailand. There are much better places to be if you have the money. Thailand has never been a destination for the rich. It has traditionally been a place for sexpat rejects from their own country and others (much better off than the rejects) who are trying to make their savings/pensions go further. I think there are a lot of expats here who a deluding themselves about their "choice." They are stuck here and know it. I think there is a lot of bitterness underneath the surface. Many of them remind me of Thai people in general--smile on the surface but anger and a frown underneath. Some are, of course, happy with their choice and have made it here. But not every person who points out a problem in Thailand is a miserable, poor psycho ready to plunge off a building. Some actually know what they are talking about and have enough money to leave and start a new life in another place.

1. I have never shown anger with anyone here -- even those publishing patent lies ("there is no permanent residence or citizenship available for foreigners", "foreigners never win a court case against a Thai", bla bla blah);

2. I'm not retired here. I work for a living, and could work anywhere in the world I wanted -- like many expats (but granted perhaps not the crowd you hang with). This is where I happen to want to be -- as much as you find that to be an impossibility;

3. You say there are "much better places to retire if you have the money" -- clearly subjective, and clearly a whole lot of people disagree. Who do you think are living in all those multi-million dollar villas on Phuket? There is a whole other class of retirees apart from the Pattaya dregs. Get out and meet some of them, perhaps?

Your opinion is your own, but plain old lies, stereotypes, and generalizations do not do you or your argument any good.

Good point about there being different expat groups -- i think the sexpat and poorer type expat guys who stay in Pattaya, bangkok, phuket- normally more blue collar types (nothing wrong with that FYI) who are often fairly short in the cash department- for this group its a good outlet to let off steam by complaining about thailand- this group are often completely unaware that there is also a group of rich and/or full expat packages farangs living in thailand - these are the farangs who are paying 2,000-4000 US$ per month on their rental condos and the type who could work almost anywhere in the world but they choose to stay in thailand.

[EirikJohannesen]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Oh, right...there are "personal situations" which prevent these people from leaving. Righty-o.

Richard, i've spent some time on this thread this morning. i think its time you grew up. this is not a flame, rather a reaity check.

You've already been given some sound advice on here but you seem very blinkered.

Who are you who can decide who is right or wrong to have opinions on this forum?

Here I totally agree with Richard and I am sure there are many thousands of others who agree as well.

This type of rule technique you will not get far with.

[wandrinstar]

Being a Brit by birth,but long departed,you make a lot of sense.I also think Nationality makes a difference.Ive noticed the German ex pats dont moan like Winging Poms,and are more self disciplined.Im also disappointed that most of the Hard Ups are Brits,and the poorer the more opinionated they become, to a point i prefer to ignore them, and join the other Europeans.. Trisailor touched most bases nicely,but even here on Visa many just want to contradict the happy.:jap:

[anterian]

An expat in Thailand is like a Christian in Saudi Arabia. Tolerated if useful (i.e. has money), otherwise shunned or deported.

[jdinasia]

Being a Brit by birth,but long departed,you make a lot of sense.I also think Nationality makes a difference.Ive noticed the German ex pats dont moan like Winging Poms,and are more self disciplined.Im also disappointed that most of the Hard Ups are Brits,and the poorer the more opinionated they become, to a point i prefer to ignore them, and join the other Europeans.. Trisailor touched most bases nicely,but even here on Visa many just want to contradict the happy.:jap:

There are plenty of my fellow Americans and many Australians that fit that bill as well. You may be seeing fewer Germans complain simply due to the language bias ....

[kerryk]

Some are posting from other countries because they HAVE left but appear bitter enough to still resent the time they chose to be in Thailand.

Some of us drop in here from time-to-time to remind ourselves why we left.

Why do you condemn views which are not in accord with your own as 'bitterness', and how are my experiences and perceptions any less valid than yours? Simply because one no longer lives in a particular country does not mean that all memory of the place should be expunged, nor that one should not take a continued intellectual interest in what is happening there. It is called having an enquiring mind - a commodity which is admittedly in short supply in Thailand.

I can understand you wanting to drop in from time to time to reaffirm your decision to leave. You had some doubts about it when you left and it is nice to know Thailand is still as bad as you remember it.

My wife's ex husband used to call me up once in a while to ask if she had changed. No, I told him she was just as bad as he remembered and now she was getting fat too.

I have lived in a number of countries and cities, 28 actually, all over the world. The worst place I have ever lived was St Louis Missouri. Too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter and East St. Louis made a war zone seem tame. Nasty town and nasty people. The inner city of Detroit was next. Do I stay in touch with those two areas? Heck, no. That would be insane.

I feel sorry for the people who live in Detroit and St. Louis and would never want to increase their already heavy burden at having to live there. I would never go to a Detroit website and revel in their financial or crime woes and say, “I told you so.” I am not that mean or nasty a person.

Everyone who lives in Detroit knows how bad it is and if some poor soul does not I would be the last person to tell them.

If you are convinced Thailand is as bad as you think it is; I can only conclude that you must be a terrible person to rub the noses of the poor people who have to live here in the dirt. It is like going to Laos and making fun of the farmers who have to grow rice in fields with land mines.

[wandrinstar]

Being a Brit by birth,but long departed,you make a lot of sense.I also think Nationality makes a difference.Ive noticed the German ex pats dont moan like Winging Poms,and are more self disciplined.Im also disappointed that most of the Hard Ups are Brits,and the poorer the more opinionated they become, to a point i prefer to ignore them, and join the other Europeans.. Trisailor touched most bases nicely,but even here on Visa many just want to contradict the happy.:jap:

There are plenty of my fellow Americans and many Australians that fit that bill as well. You may be seeing fewer Germans complain simply due to the language bias ....

To be honest, i only see many Ferangs at Patts Bike Week,where everyones Happy.Exept Me, the only Dick Head with no Bike anymore. .

[soomak]

The simple answer to this issue is that most of the men that I know here are not very balanced people. I can't for the life of me understand how a man can get to his 50's and 60' and still have no clue how to balance his life. I say if your in that age group and you find yourself fighting life, struggling with it most days than maybe you should consider ways to change it.

There have been several studies that suggest that over 70% of old people had regrets about the choices they made in life. If you look at the amount of medications that most people are on to help them deal with their life and that includes alcohol it is almost as though they have not learned a thing about managing their lives to produce a balanced outcome.

I know a few guys here that fit that pattern. They are in over their heads and have no clue how to change it. They get up every day reacting to whatever is happening around them without a single thought to learning how to be proactive and make their life INTO what they want it to be. It's sad really. When they post here about how terrible living here is they are really saying that they don't have a clue of how to properly manage their lives. Do they understand how stupid it makes them look.

A balanced person can be happy almost anywhere and under almost any circumstance. A balanced person takes responsibility for his actions or inactions instead of blaming others or blaming Thailand. A balanced person has the courage to make the changes in his life that will change his thinking. A balanced person does not try to drag everyone else down into his pit of despair.

You make some valid points, however surely it is in everyone’s interest if some of the people you describe are actively discouraged from moving to Thailand in the first place? Which is where resources such as this board, presenting a diversity of experiences and opinions can be of assistance in the decision-making process, conveying the message that perhaps not everything in the garden is lovely, and that not everyone’s experiences are overwhelmingly positive. I only wish that some of this information had been available to me, before I decided to work in Thailand. It would have given considerable pause for thought. However it was only with the advent of the internet that some of Thailand’s dirty little secrets (such as the atrocious education system, the blatantly entrenched xenophobia and the Byzantine and ever-changing immigration regime) began to emerge from under the rock.

Realizing that Thailand is not the place in which you wish to spend the rest of your life (whether that realization comes after 20 minutes or 20 years in the country) is not in any way indicative of some kind of psychosis or serious character flaw. Simply packing up one’s life and extricating oneself when that realization does eventually dawn may not be as easy nor as expedient as some posters here seem to think, for any number of reasons.

Comments such as 'don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out' are both risible and demonstrative of the 'I'm alright Jack' attitudes so prevalent among many of the Western expats in Thailand; attitudes which, incidentally, some of the better-informed and more perceptive Thais find perplexing, as their expat communities overseas tend to be far more inclusive and supportive.

I agree with you:

Changing a country requires money, time and courage, and you never know what the outcome would be.

Maybe if you are a retiree with a reasonable income, it becomes easier, but most people need to worry about making a living too.

It is possible to stay in a country without being so pleased with it, as many people here might recall from their home countries.

(in my country about 40% of the people said they would like to live abroad, but only 0.3% actually make the move every year)

[GarryP]

I live a normal life here. I have a family, work Monday thru Friday and have weekends off. Very humdrum really, but I am satisfied. Do I really feel part of it here in Thailand? Not really, even after 28 years here and being able to speak Thai, but it does not bother me much. I am as much "part of it" as I am ever going to be and am happy with that. Would I want to go back to the UK? No, I like my life here. Could I go back and live in the UK now even if I wanted to? Not, really. I am pushing 50 and it would be difficult to get work and pretty much start from scratch. My wife of 20 plus years would leave me if I went back (now there's an idea!! ). She has been to the UK and dislikes it intensely (I have no problems with that as she is free to have her own opinions). My son, likewise, has no intention of going to live in the UK. So basically, my life is here and I will make the best of it I can here. FWIW, I wouldn't fit in in the UK either. I have spent more than half my life in Thailand and am out of touch with UK life.

I mix with all levels of Thais, without restrictions (something I had never thought about before, but jdinasia so astutely pointed this out in an earlier post) and generally have a good life. Do I like the country? Certainly, but at the same time there are things I dislike too, and some I even hate with a vengeance. However, I do not get on a soap box to expound on those things either as not everyone feels the same. As said by others, a lot of the moaners, whiners, whingers, etc. would be the same no matter where they are, while others are like that because they are frustrated by the language barrier and perhaps do not really know what is going on. And then there are those who are just plain nasty, full-of-themselves people who think because they are spending money they can treat others worse than a stray dog. If they treated people the same way in their home countries, they would find themselves flat on their backs counting stars in no time. Do they give the rest of us a bad namethough? Not necessarily. I no longer move in the circles where I come across such people and the Thais I come into contact with are likewise far from the circles of the nasty few. The vast majority of Thais probably never come into contact with such riffraff either, just those in tourist areas. As a result, when visiting tourist areas we may come across locals who treat us poorly because of their own experience with foriegn thugs, but that could hardly be considered a reflection of the feelings of the population as a whole. In fact, the vast majority of Thais don't even think of us at all, and why should they, we have no daily interaction with them and, for the most part, no impact on their daily lives. Apologies to those who think they are the center of the universe , but we just do not exist as a subject of interest for most locals.

Thailand is what you make of it. It can be heaven or hell or something in between, but this depends on you and you alone. Stop blaming others.

Edited June 6, 2011 by GarryP

[surayu]

More in the spirit of encouragement to think beyond the superficial, and to avoid leaping to negative conclusions about others, and think of possible reasons that things happen.

While i agree in not looking at something with superficiality, i also often see people refusing the obvious, it doesn't matter how evident something is, some people will always deny it.

[Richard4849]

Anterian: shunned and deported? Only if you break the law, my friend...or if you make a nuisance of yourself. Well-behaved foreigners have no fear of either, so I can only surmise that this description does not fit you.

Christian in Saudi Arabia...really, this crosses the point of opinion and becomes just a ridiculous lie.

[Forethat]

Personally, I cant see much difference living in Thailand compared to many other countries. I live here with my family, I have friends, I do pretty much exactly what I would do elsewhere.

There appears to be a he** of a difference living here as a single guy hanging out in bars with bar-girls each night and compared to living here with your family in a structured life with everything in terms of insurances, permits, businesses. The only difference (for me compared to living in London) is we can go to the beach and swim with the kids every day if we want to, I can load my diving gear in the Pajero on Friday afternoon and dive the Similans the entire weekend. I can eat awesome food at ridiculous low cost. I have awesome Thai friends and expat friends.

I have come to understand that a lot of people get deeply emotional about Thailand and express hatred against the people and sometimes the entire country. I have seen close friends go through the exact same process:

Arrive in Thailand and develop unconditional love for the place, which transforms into a hatred after two-three years. The last year they usually go about moaning and whining about everything until they finally go home to wherever they came from.

The only remaining question is if the door actually do hit them in the arse when they leave...?

[jdinasia]

I live a normal life here. I have a family, work Monday thru Friday and have weekends off. Very humdrum really, but I am satisfied. Do I really feel part of it here in Thailand? Not really, even after 28 years here and being able to speak Thai, but it does not bother me much. I am as much "part of it" as I am ever going to be and am happy with that. Would I want to go back to the UK? No, I like my life here. Could I go back and live in the UK now even if I wanted to? Not, really. I am pushing 50 and it would be difficult to get work and pretty much start from scratch. My wife of 20 plus years would leave me if I went back (now there's an idea!! ). She has been to the UK and dislikes it intensely (I have no problems with that as she is free to have her own opinions). My son, likewise, has no intention of going to live in the UK. So basically, my life is here and I will make the best of it I can here. FWIW, I wouldn't fit in in the UK either. I have spent more than half my life in Thailand and am out of touch with UK life.

I mix with all levels of Thais, without restrictions (something I had never thought about before, but jdinasia so astutely pointed this out in an earlier post) and generally have a good life. Do I like the country? Certainly, but at the same time there are things I dislike too, and some I even hate with a vengeance. However, I do not get on a soap box to expound on those things either as not everyone feels the same. As said by others, a lot of the moaners, whiners, whingers, etc. would be the same no matter where they are, while others are like that because they are frustrated by the language barrier and perhaps do not really know what is going on. And then there are those who are just plain nasty, full-of-themselves people who think because they are spending money they can treat others worse than a stray dog. If they treated people the same way in their home countries, they would find themselves flat on their backs counting stars in no time. Do they give the rest of us a bad namethough? Not necessarily. I no longer move in the circles where I come across such people and the Thais I come into contact with are likewise far from the circles of the nasty few. The vast majority of Thais probably never come into contact with such riffraff either, just those in tourist areas. As a result, when visiting tourist areas we may come across locals who treat us poorly because of their own experience with foriegn thugs, but that could hardly be considered a reflection of the feelings of the population as a whole. In fact, the vast majority of Thais don't even think of us at all, and why should they, we have no daily interaction with them and, for the most part, no impact on their daily lives. Apologies to those who think they are the center of the universe , but we just do not exist as a subject of interest for most locals.

Thailand is what you make of it. It can be heaven or hell or something in between, but this depends on you and you alone. Stop blaming others.

Good post

[Naam]

It's amazing to me that someone would try a dozen different countries and then settle on Thailand, without being part of the sex thing! Which were the other countries tried before? To retire here when one could retire somewhere nice is amazing. It must be the sense of grandeur as one drives around the broken roads in ones luxury motor, that's all I can think.

truly amazing would be if somebody who is 60 years old, married for 25 years would settle with his wife in Thailand for "the sex thing".

next of "all you can think"

[TigerWan]

What advice is it that I have been given again? To "grow up" and realize that I don't really like Thailand at all?

I thought it was good advice - allow others their views without trying to negate it through your experiences.

I didn't try other countries first because I didn't realize the info I was getting some years ago was really quite censored.

[TigerWan]

The simple answer to this issue is that most of the men that I know here are not very balanced people. I can't for the life of me understand how a man can get to his 50's and 60' and still have no clue how to balance his life. I say if your in that age group and you find yourself fighting life, struggling with it most days than maybe you should consider ways to change it.

There have been several studies that suggest that over 70% of old people had regrets about the choices they made in life. If you look at the amount of medications that most people are on to help them deal with their life and that includes alcohol it is almost as though they have not learned a thing about managing their lives to produce a balanced outcome.

I know a few guys here that fit that pattern. They are in over their heads and have no clue how to change it. They get up every day reacting to whatever is happening around them without a single thought to learning how to be proactive and make their life INTO what they want it to be. It's sad really. When they post here about how terrible living here is they are really saying that they don't have a clue of how to properly manage their lives. Do they understand how stupid it makes them look.

A balanced person can be happy almost anywhere and under almost any circumstance. A balanced person takes responsibility for his actions or inactions instead of blaming others or blaming Thailand. A balanced person has the courage to make the changes in his life that will change his thinking. A balanced person does not try to drag everyone else down into his pit of despair.

You make some valid points, however surely it is in everyone’s interest if some of the people you describe are actively discouraged from moving to Thailand in the first place? Which is where resources such as this board, presenting a diversity of experiences and opinions can be of assistance in the decision-making process, conveying the message that perhaps not everything in the garden is lovely, and that not everyone’s experiences are overwhelmingly positive. I only wish that some of this information had been available to me, before I decided to work in Thailand. It would have given considerable pause for thought. However it was only with the advent of the internet that some of Thailand’s dirty little secrets (such as the atrocious education system, the blatantly entrenched xenophobia and the Byzantine and ever-changing immigration regime) began to emerge from under the rock.

Realizing that Thailand is not the place in which you wish to spend the rest of your life (whether that realization comes after 20 minutes or 20 years in the country) is not in any way indicative of some kind of psychosis or serious character flaw. Simply packing up one’s life and extricating oneself when that realization does eventually dawn may not be as easy nor as expedient as some posters here seem to think, for any number of reasons.

Comments such as 'don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out' are both risible and demonstrative of the 'I'm alright Jack' attitudes so prevalent among many of the Western expats in Thailand; attitudes which, incidentally, some of the better-informed and more perceptive Thais find perplexing, as their expat communities overseas tend to be far more inclusive and supportive.

Great post, thanks for taking the time to be nice about it, too

[jdinasia]

What advice is it that I have been given again? To "grow up" and realize that I don't really like Thailand at all?

I thought it was good advice - allow others their views without trying to negate it through your experiences.

I didn't try other countries first because I didn't realize the info I was getting some years ago was really quite censored.

Don't you state you have history coming to Thailand since the 70's?

[trisailer]

Two good posts in a row. A new TV record.