Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[Jingthing]

.

"why don't you run a poll? ... I'm talking about 'tell us your experience' poll"

The poll has already been taken.

No reports in over 750 posts that anything has changed at any immigration office. The Embassy letter is still accepted as validation of income and there has been no report of anyone required to import funds into Thailand to qualify for a retirement extension. Precisely as JFChandler has stated over and over.

Not exactly. There were reports in the thread about this issue in March indicating something was going on in BANGKOK. Nothing on this from Pattaya, so it really is no news that there are no reports showing this is happening in Pattaya, because nobody really has said yet that it is.

[Jingthing]

Not on a retirement visa so it doesn't affect me, but George posted this on 2011-06-06,

Do people really think that when something trickles through from above it will take only 12 days.

I think change will be noticable in another month, and I bet there is more in store for more then 1 kind of visa. (but that is speculative)

Edit: 19:06 Changed 1 word

Interesting comment, but I still have no strong opinion on whether this change will go into effect any time soon, and if so, whether it will deal only with proof or also include transfer requirements, not to mention how many and WHICH nationalities might be effected.

[jfchandler]

Thanks for your cheerful contribution, but your analysis doesn't even fit with the detail of original post here..

In you actually go back and read post #1 in all its glory, you'll see the author saying Immigration supposedly had been asking for the new documents for THE PAST MONTH....

Not only did no posts from TV members give any credence to that during the month prior to the posting here, but none have given any credence to it in the nearly two weeks since.

It's not like the OP was reporting some leak of confidential info from Immigration or reporting some supposed upcoming change. The OP said Immigration had been dealing differently with applicants for the past month prior...

Only problem is.... there's been absolutely no confirmation from TV members of any such broad policy changes being applied to applicants who have visited Chaeng Wattana and other offices in the past month.

Not on a retirement visa so it doesn't affect me, but George posted this on 2011-06-06,

Do people really think that when something trickles through from above it will take only 12 days.

I think change will be noticable in another month, and I bet there is more in store for more then 1 kind of visa. (but that is speculative)

Edit: 19:06 Changed 1 word

[Jingthing]

That may be true. The reports I remember started in March. Not sure about May. So maybe the OP was reporting old news about a half assed trial that had already been dropped, at least for now.

[SurfRider]

.

"The reports I remember started in March. Not sure about May ... There were reports in the thread about this issue in March indicating something was going on"

Normally, when posters claim phantom examples that challenge the prevailing and overwhelming collective wisdom of a thread-- they present specific examples to support their claims - if they exist . . .

.

[JimGant]

There's enough smoke to indicate Immigration is frustrated, and is experimenting with trial solutions -- most probably just in the rumor stage ("...WARNINGS to American applicants about a new policy to be enforced their next visit.), or already discarded ("So maybe the OP was reporting old news about a half assed trial that had already been dropped, at least for now."). (Quotes from Jing.)

And, yes, there has been no policy change, no new Police Order written -- yet. That's why most reports are still business as usual.

But there still remains the problem of deadbeats here with bogus financials. And the push on the embassies to tighten-up backfired. Immigration is frustrated, and has yet to find the solution -- but the smoke sure indicates they're looking...

A couple observations.

First, the 65k/mo income requirement has always been believed to be "gross income." And this would make sense -- Immigration knows that not all our income is available for import to Thailand, as most still have some expenses in farangland, notably taxes (for Yanks, anyway). So, I wouldn't expect they'll look to see a full 780k baht equivalent imported annually to Thailand.

But, standby for the requirement for a bank account (for surety bond purposes against deadbeats). Probably not for 800k, however, if the next paragraph is considered.

Secondly, the other side of the income coin is spending. It would seem prudent, then, for Immigration to sample your spending in Thailand, as this is the same as checking for import of income. Checking ATM receipts (and the related bank statement) would seem doable. And it wouldn't make any difference if the ATM movement was from your Thai bank -- or your farang bank. And, debit and credit purchase receipts would could also be examined.

The OP mentioned "two months." Such a small sampling of spending seems curious -- until you factor in the requirement to have a Thai bank account loaded with a certain amount. And the factor of resources -- Immigration would bog down if a year's worth of ATM receipts were evaluated.

The only substantive info to come out of this thread is the info on the Dutch and British embassies pushing-back from income verification. But that info certainly contributes to the drift of this thread -- and to expect (some) change down the road.

Sorry to have to mention this for a third time in this thread, but the former British Consul who works daily at Pattaya Immigration assisting Farangs with various immigration issues --and has direct access to all of the top immigration officials-- has stated that there are NO CHANGES in the requirements or procedures for retirement renewals at Chonburi/Pattaya immigration.

Yet is the operative word regarding this thread.

[jfchandler]

The only substantive info to come out of this thread is the info on the Dutch and British embassies pushing-back from income verification.

That part quoted above, I agree about...

Everything else is pure conjecture and speculation...

There's already been enough confusion and misinformation spread by the original post in this thread.

Now, 30+ thread pages later, why not just say as the real evidence and members reports suggest:

At least for now, applicant's traditional consular income letter alone should be fine. But as always, be prepared with backup documentation, because Immigration has the right to ask for it, and sometimes does.

[moe666]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

[Dido]

Hello all,

a friend of mine (German) got this formless paper from the Immigration Office at NAKHON SI THAMMARAT just a few days ago.

What does it mean exactly for the proof of income ? (exc 800.000 rule)

What's about the pictures ?

Moreover it would be very interesting if this sheet (shit?) means a new general practice for the retirement visa or if it is an autocratic and maybe undue treatment by this branch.

Please can anyone proof it, maybe at the Immigration Center in BANGKOK ?

Thanks a lot and have a nice day !

[Jingthing]

.

"The reports I remember started in March. Not sure about May ... There were reports in the thread about this issue in March indicating something was going on"

Normally, when posters claim phantom examples that challenge the prevailing and overwhelming collective wisdom of a thread-- they present specific examples to support their claims - if they exist . . .

.

I already did earlier in this thread. I am not going to search for it again. That's your job, to read the thread. Cheers.

[Jingthing]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

Wow! One report. Very impressive. A salesman's dream?

[jfchandler]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

And likewise a similar report from another American in the north...extension issued with no changes....

Sometimes smoke doesn't mean a fire... Sometimes it just means, smoke and mirrors.

[janverbeem]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

Wow! One report. Very impressive. A salesman's dream?

You stay here long enough to know that enforcing immigration laws,or any laws for that matter,are at the discretion of the acting officer and are changed or applied on the spot.the law which is enforced when you make your application may not have been enforced yesterday and also not tomorrow or even the next applicant.

[JimGant]

"But there still remains the problem of deadbeats here with bogus financials"

Really Jim? -- Do you have any evidence? I haven't met any of these people and whenever the very rare occasional episode pops up in the news media-- it seems they're promptly escorted to the exit door

No, 'cause their too sick.

"The hospital [Vichara Phuket] last year spent 1.3 million baht treating 17 penniless foreigners. It was the third consecutive year that the hospital had logged unpaid bills. The hospital bore costs of more than 1.2 million baht in 2009 for 22 foreign patients, a 50% rise from the 800,000 baht in costs to treat 17 patients in 2008, the centre said. 'These patients are mostly European men,' the source said. 'They didn't take out health insurance. They renew their visas every year and have no savings.' Some of them produced fake financial statements to have their visas renewed. Each foreign national seeking the renewal of his or her retirement visa must have at least 800,000 baht in their bank account or show they have earnings of at least 65,000 baht a month."

Full article here: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2011/01/20/hospitals-count-cost-of-foreigners-bills/

Do you really think Immigration is not feeling the heat? Or that the strange bits and pieces being reported here do not represent, if nothing else, rumors running rampant over at Immigration -- while they search for a solution?

"Just the facts, ma'am" is nice -- but boring. A little conjecture hurts no one in a format like this -- especially since it's obvious it is conjecture.

Anyway, JFC, bet you a cold Chang that there will be an amended police order in the next 18 months -- to include a change something along the lines we've been discussing in this thread.

And if we can replace an income statement with ATM receipts, hey, good deal.

[Jingthing]

I think thread should stay open to collect RELEVANT reports. Particularly Bangkok reports from Americans ...

[Jingthing]

No Reports anywhere in the 31 pages of this nonsense thread of anyone being asked for a Thai Bank deposit of Funds with an Embassy Letter of Income.

Not this thread. The thread from March ...

Was told that they are specifically looking at all such (American) cases now and will require further proof of income as they are aware the US Embassy does not require anything...

Edited June 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[jfchandler]

Anyway, JFC, bet you a cold Chang that there will be an amended police order in the next 18 months -- to include a change something along the lines we've been discussing in this thread.

I'm not a prophet, Jim. So I wouldn't be one to be betting on the future in any direction, especially one and a half years out.

Right now, I'd imagine, the Immigration brass are more worried about who's going to get promoted and demoted after the upcoming national election....

If and when something changes in the future, I'm sure we'll hear about it here and have another 30 pages of posts discussing it.

[jfchandler]

a friend of mine (German) got this formless paper from the Immigration Office at NAKHON SI THAMMARAT just a few days ago.

What does it mean exactly for the proof of income ? (exc 800.000 rule)

What's about the pictures ?

Moreover it would be very interesting if this sheet (shit?) means a new general practice for the retirement visa or if it is an autocratic and maybe undue treatment by this branch.

Please can anyone proof it, maybe at the Immigration Center in BANGKOK ?

The document attached to this original post above is an odd one... I'm not sure what to make of it...

There's no letterhead or identifying information on the sheet, no date, no nothing.

Its headline refers to "retirement visa", when in fact it would be retirement extension of stay.

It presumes the applicant has a Thai family, when of course, that's not required and many retirement stay applicants don't.

The member posting it is doing so as their first post on ThaiVisa... And, curiously, the info spelled out in the document seems to correspond to the report that TV member Mamasun made earlier in this thread also re Nakhon Si Thammarat....which no one else anywhere has ever encountered....

Edited June 19, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

Here's the prior post by Mamasun relating to the post above....

Other thing, I have post 2 months ago something about the immigration in Nakhon si Thammarat... I was in stress because went there for my 90 days and saw a paper who was asking the people with retirement visa to show prove of pension in bank and also pictures of family here in Thailand...well for the second part sound that they mixte with the marriage extension...but after reding this post I thinck that the first one asking for prove are going to be ask next time...well since april i have make transfert of my pension into my Thai bank...to be sure if they ask me or not ( 500 bahts every transfert ! )

I need to make my 90 days again in july (will see if the paper still there ! ) and then 3 weeks later my retirement extension...!...

[Mamasun]

Here's the prior post by Mamasun relating to the post above....

Other thing, I have post 2 months ago something about the immigration in Nakhon si Thammarat... I was in stress because went there for my 90 days and saw a paper who was asking the people with retirement visa to show prove of pension in bank and also pictures of family here in Thailand...well for the second part sound that they mixte with the marriage extension...but after reding this post I thinck that the first one asking for prove are going to be ask next time...well since april i have make transfert of my pension into my Thai bank...to be sure if they ask me or not ( 500 bahts every transfert ! )

I need to make my 90 days again in july (will see if the paper still there ! ) and then 3 weeks later my retirement extension...!...

So now you see what I mean

many people was telling me that i read wrong...or I don't understand...but no...Its exactly this paper i saw last time !

Brrr.. i am now more scare...! how i am going to take picture of my Thai family ????? its an non sens ...but that what it is..somebody can help on that ?

Edited June 19, 2011 by Mamasun

[moe666]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

Wow! One report. Very impressive. A salesman's dream?

You still looking for black and white. As you said earlier wrong country.hhahahahaha

[Jingthing]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

Wow! One report. Very impressive. A salesman's dream?

You still looking for black and white. As you said earlier wrong country.hhahahahaha

I have no idea what your point is here. Cheers.

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted for being off topic.

[moe666]

We have a report from Lopburi3 about his visa extension and how well it went and no additional info asked for. Very few commits or views. I guess most people like conjucture and confusion.

Wow! One report. Very impressive. A salesman's dream?

You still looking for black and white. As you said earlier wrong country.hhahahahaha

I have no idea what your point is here. Cheers.

Similar to my ex-wife selective memory

[moe666]

1 post deleted for being off topic.

no sense of humor

[electau]

With reference to post #715 by Tropo.

One was referring to the Australian Embassy requirements, it would be obvious that one would check with their own Embassy first to obtain the exact requirements that they want.

And you would have documentary proof of income anyway, it is easy to obtain. If your Embassy requires it you can produce it.

The word one used was "similiar" (paragraph 1) You read it out of context.

　

[jfchandler]

I have had 800,000 sitting in the bank for 5 years here now. At best it would draw me $1250 a year interest before taxes. After tax who know maybe $1000, That is about 30000 baht. I donot get any interest at my bank because the banker says foreigners donot get interest.

I live out of Bkk so to get an Embassy letter for my pensions I have to travel to Bkk ,get a hotel,pay the embassy for a letter at my costs. This is usually a few thousand baht uasually over 10,000 baht to get it finished and be home.

So I feel what i lose in interest with just using a bank letter I save in a trip to Bkk and inconvience. I look at the 800,000 as the door fee, for entry.

"I donot get any interest at my bank because the banker says foreigners donot get interest."

Sounds like the banker is yet another upcountry bumpkin suffering from the face trait.

If I were you I would change banks, my banks pays me as a farang interest.

For the fans of Thai banks, here's the latest news from the Pattaya Daily News...

Three Frenchmen were arrested for stealing ATM cards and withdrew millions of Baht at many ATM machines around Pattaya.

Pattaya, 10 June 2011 [PDN]: Pol. Lt. Col. Suktad Pumpangmuan (Foreign Criminal Suppression of Pattaya) was informed that three Frenchmen had stolen several ATM cards and withdrew more than five millions Baht from many ATM machines around Pattaya, placing many people in distress over the loss of their money.

The article doesn't explain how these guys managed to access people's accounts with the cards, i.e., how they presumably were able to obtain their PINs... But obviously they did.... One forum member posted, "They had some gadget in the ATM's that scanned the card and they were looking over shoulders to get the pin I believe or has some camera."

Also no mention of how or whether the stolen funds would be returned to the accountholders...

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/79784-frenchmen-withdraw-millions-baht-with-stolen-atm-cards/

[harrry]

1 post deleted for being off topic.

only one?

[doctormann]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

UPDATE:

Chonburi (Jompthien) Immigration today, 22 June 2011

Retirement Extension (UK Citizen)

Provided: TM7 (1 copy); 2 photos; Passport copy; Embassy letter (from Hon. UK Consul Jompthien); Bank Letter; Copy of Bank Passbook.

Nothing else offered or required.

I have used the monthly income method for several years and have always been asked to provide a bank letter and passbook copy. Nothing seems to have changed, for UK citizens anyway.

The process seems to have been speeded up a little this year as I can apparently collect my passport this afternoon whereas previously it has been necessary to return on the following day. I'll get my re-entry permit at the same time.

DM

[jfchandler]

Doctor, I'm not clear about one thing re your post above....

You're using the income method/consulate letter to qualify, meaning at least 65,000 baht in monthly income...

When you talk about providing bank book and bank statements to your local Immigration office that they regularly have asked you for, do you mean...

a. for Thai bank account(s) unrelated to the 65K, just showing you have some funds in Thai accounts.

or

b. the bank account(s) that document your 65,000 plus in monthly income, essentially the backup documents for your consular income letter.