Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[FarangBuddha]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

It's only half as much for married guys. But agree it's getting excessive...especially with the strength of the baht against most Western currencies the past decade.

[ericg1953]

Does the 65k per month income figure change if you have a thai wife and are legally married

[SurfRider]

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"I don't know why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do - it's relatively simple. Surely they can come up with that amount"

One very good reason is because some retirees have their money working for them in investments in foreign countries.

In the USA, for example, the 800,000 Baht required by Thai Immigration is the equivalent about US$26,500 -- If you liquidate enough of your invested money to satisfy the ridiculous Thai requirement, you'll pay income taxes in your home country on that money. If the retiree is in the 20% tax bracket, you'll pay $5300 to your home government for the "privilege" of meeting the Thai income requirement. In addition, if that invested money is earning 5% annually in interest or dividend yield, you forfeit $1325 per year in income, due to being forced to liquidate your investment.

Now, do you understand "why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do"? -- How would you feel about being forced to pay US$5300 ( 160,000 Baht! ) to transfer your 800K to Thailand?

.

[MacWalen]

I think Thai immigration is very generous allowing people to move to Thailand and retire here at a relatively young age of 50. Also showing 800,000 in the bank is a very reasonable requirement. Almost too easy. If you are 50 and do not have 800,000 in the bank then too bad, but this is a very low price to pay for being allowed to stay without too many hassles in this wonderful country.

[MacWalen]

.

"I don't know why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do - it's relatively simple. Surely they can come up with that amount"

One very good reason is because some retirees have their money working for them in investments in foreign countries.

In the USA, for example, the 800,000 Baht required by Thai Immigration is the equivalent about US$26,500 -- If you liquidate enough of your invested money to satisfy the ridiculous Thai requirement, you'll pay income taxes in your home country on that money. If the retiree is in the 20% tax bracket, you'll pay $5300 to your home government for the "privilege" of meeting the Thai income requirement. In addition, if that invested money is earning 5% annually in interest or dividend yield, you forfeit $1325 per year in income, due to being forced to liquidate your investment.

Now, do you understand "why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do"? -- How would you feel about being forced to pay US$5300 ( 160,000 Baht! ) to transfer your 800K to Thailand?

.

This is one way of looking at it. Still living here is a privilege and this is their country and their rules. We are just guests here, lets not forget about it. It was 55 retirement age some time ago, if I remember well, so 50 is really making it easy for those who have sufficient funds to live here.

Also if you have a proof of income you are fine. But if some cheated and immigration found out about about that they really do not have any income or below what is required, it is only fair they want to make sure that what they are being told is true. I do not see any unfairness in it. Do you?

[FarangBuddha]

Can't see the problem if you have the proof - which you would have in getting an Embassy letter? unless you 'swore' that you had it - but didn't? then it could be tricky.

The form (at USA embassy at least) requires one to swear that the stated pension (or monthly income) amount on the document it true. It says nothing about whether one has the documentary proof of the pension amount or have said documents easily at hand.

It's unfortunate that some foreigners do not have the required funds to live in Thailand legally and therefore cause those who do to have to jump through more hoops to show that we do. Probably just easier to put the B 400 or 800k in the bank as one's circumstances dictate. If you can't do that...I hope you like doing tricks.

[FarangBuddha]

I don't understand what the commotion is all about. From now on immigration wants, once a year, to have proof that the stated pension of 65.000 baht/month is actually brought in to Thailand.

It's my understanding that the Thai immigration requirement is to have a pension/monthly income equivalent of 65k per month...not that one's spending in Thailand has to equal that amount. Therefore, there is, and should not be, a requirement that the entirety of that amount of money need be transferred to Thailand monthly. If that were the case, the next requirement will be for people to show-up with a pile of receipts showing that they both transferred and spent 65k per month in Thailand, or 400 or 800k in receipts in a year for those using the bank deposit method

[Barin]

That is only if your not married to a Thai, if married and support umpteen kids then you need 40,000 baht a month to live here or get a yearly '0' married at KL with 100,000 baht in a Thai Bank..

Are you sure that in this case 100,000 Baht in a Thai bank is enough to qualify for a 1 year non-immigration "O" visa based on Thai wife?

What documents are required?

Is it only possible in Kuala Lumpur? What about Vientiane?

Edited June 7, 2011 by Barin

[maxjay]

// its all speculation and now out of control speculation.

I agree.

Someone yesterday asked why "famous" members leave ThaiVisa forum;

this kind of rumor that we periodically find here could be a reason...

The very sad thing is that this rumor come from a sponsor and was written by a upper group member.

No other message since yesterday to confirm this speculation

Not good for the already poor credibility of ThaiVisa...

Yes, too many of my "BREAKING NEWS" e-mail alerts from TV, seem to be of the sensationalism genre.

Back to the original subject: "Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions."

Has anyone actually spoken with a Thai Immigration official, and been able to confirm, or deny the original post?

Or, are we stuck with ten pages of useless speculation?

[Barin]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

If you have a Thai family you will understand very quickly.

Thanks for the warning.

Don't worry, this is not always the case in Thailand. It just depeds on where you have found your sweetheart. If that is Pattaya I can believe it...

[Penkoprod]

Yes, too many of my "BREAKING NEWS" e-mail alerts from TV, seem to be of the sensationalism genre.

Back to the original subject: "Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions."

Has anyone actually spoken with a Thai Immigration official, and been able to confirm, or deny the original post?

Or, are we stuck with ten pages of useless speculation?

I'm thinking along the same lines as you are, and am suprised this thread is still open

Speculation at its best, started by a half-arsed "news" item thats not been substansiated

Penkoprod

[SurfRider]

.

"This is one way of looking at it. Still living here is a privilege and this is their country and their rules ... I do not see any unfairness in it. Do you?"

It's not a question of "fairness". In my case, it's a question of complexity and-- in my humble opinion, borders on harassment by Thai Immigration.

My income comes from several different sources-- into several different accounts-- at various different time intervals throughout the year. It's not a normal "monthly pension" as the outdated simple-minded Thai concept expects.

I've been retired for seven years in Thailand. I have sufficient funds and income to support that retirement. In fact, it's far more than enough to satisfy the ridiculous Thai Immigration requirement. I transfer money via ATMs as needed, because that is the least expensive way of bringing money into Thailand. There is no specific monthly income and no fixed track-record of a specific monthly transfer amount-- as the childish Thai requirement expects.

If I was going to become a "burden" on Thailand by attempting to retire here without sufficient funds or income, I think it would have become evident by now.

If they want to slam new retirees with this insane requirement to see if they qualify, that's one issue. Retirees who have proven themselves via longevity should be exempted and left alone.

.

[kdc1899]

// its all speculation and now out of control speculation.

I agree.

Someone yesterday asked why "famous" members leave ThaiVisa forum;

this kind of rumor that we periodically find here could be a reason...

The very sad thing is that this rumor come from a sponsor and was written by a upper group member.

No other message since yesterday to confirm this speculation

Not good for the already poor credibility of ThaiVisa...

Yes, too many of my "BREAKING NEWS" e-mail alerts from TV, seem to be of the sensationalism genre.

Back to the original subject: "Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions."

Has anyone actually spoken with a Thai Immigration official, and been able to confirm, or deny the original post?

Or, are we stuck with ten pages of useless speculation?

It's an absolute rumour.

The 10 pages are very informative though.

If rumour becomes reality then only those who lied under oath to their embassy officials will have a new hoop to jump thru.

Lots of cheaper and more pleasant places to retire to if being here becomes not worth it ( IT being the young gals that pay attention to you here ).

[FarangBuddha]

I for one will never transfer 800,000 baht into a Thai bank. Or any amount into a Thai bank for that matter...

The middle class farang will not have a place in Asia. As the economy keeps growing and the developed nations keep contracting. It is just a matter of time.

Why...if its a question of safety...I don't recall any Thai banks having to go hat-in-hand to the government for a couple trillion dollars in bailouts like the US and European banks had to do...as for the second point, it seems like a reason to make one's future in Asia and not in those "developed nations."

[jmac]

US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000 (300,000 bt) to the US govt yearly. The penalty for not reporting is obscene, 50% of the account value or $100,000 per account. I assume they assume anyone with over 10,000 is laundering. That is why I, as an American, am not interested in triggering this report. The US govt is trying to get banks all over the world to report US citizens holdings over $10,000 to them.

[kdc1899]

US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000 (300,000 bt) to the US govt yearly. The penalty for not reporting is obscene, 50% of the account value or $100,000 per account. I assume they assume anyone with over 10,000 is laundering. That is why I, as an American, am not interested in triggering this report. The US govt is trying to get banks all over the world to report US citizens holdings over $10,000 to them.

It's really no big deal. Just report the account. You're not earning money here just transfering funds here. They don't even care if you repatriate those funds at favorable rates. There are too many variables to show no real profit even though many of us are up 30% on currency rate gains.

[Svante]

They have become more strict regarding the copy of the bank book. You must now have an entry in the book the same day as you ask for extension, meaning a small transaction must be done that same day.

Can anyone verify this statement? For logistical reasons I have always got my bank letter the day before visiting Immigration.

As I wrote the above, I can elaborate.

The letter from the bank is normally 1 day old and that is ok.

The bankbook the letter relates to, have to be shown as well and have to be updated the same day as you request for extension. Reason being that the monies the letter states is in the account, refers to the date on the letter and that was normally yesterday. Immigration wants to be sure it is still there. Make a small transaction, take out 500 baht or so the same day as you go to Immigration, that is sufficient for them. Just make sure you still have 800k in the account!

Further more, the Thai bank does NOT have to be a Thai bank, just a bank IN Thailand. Personally I use Standard Chartered but any foreign bank with a local office is ok.

[SurfRider]

.

"US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000 (300,000 bt) to the US govt yearly ... That is why I, as an American, am not interested in triggering this report. ... It's really no big deal. Just report the account"

Many retirees are on a status where they are not required to file a tax return with the IRS every year-- especially if they're over age 65 and receiving Social Security benefits, which are not taxable.

If you have a foreign bank account with more than the equivalent of US$10,000, you'll need to file an unnecessary yearly tax return just so you can add the form that reports your foreign bank account. Is anyone actually insane enough to want to go through the hassle and expense of filing a frivolous tax return every year, when they would otherwise not be required to do so?

.

[newtronbom]

I have never seen, nor understood, the point of all this "expensive drama" in wanting proof, letters from embassy, bank statements and such that is made by Thai Immigration, about our income and financial status for a retirement/marriage visa or any other kind. I mean it's not like the Thai system has got to support us if we are "short of cash" is it? There is no Dole here. No unemployment benefit. No sickness benefit. They don't even have a social welfare system for themselves, let alone us. If we don't have enough money, we either starve or go home - apart from a very few (one who I know personally), who may get supported by their Thai wife if she is working or her family if they can afford it. This is the case for any Thai that is on the "bones of his/her ass" through bad luck, loss of work and sickness etc. There will always be some unfortunates and more than a few utter wasters, that "fall through the cracks" for many reasons, loss of income either here or back home, things have gone bad back home, ill heath - physiological as much as any other or an accident, losing it all to a scam, really bad luck such as being wrongfully arrested here and being "cleaned out by the police" - the list is endless. No matter how strict or tough Immigration make the rules, there will always be people who crash. Some of you will be thinking that these unfortunate folks may turn to crime to get by, so we should try to get rid of them before they do, or not allow them in to begin with. I say, that those criminally minded were here breaking the law to begin with and will always get in, no matter what restrictions are in place. Just like they do and have always done in any country. Perhaps more so in Thailand, as the "pickings" are still relatively easy and they thrive in a corrupt environment. The main point I am making though is this. What does it cost the country, the government or the Thai people, in cases like this where foreigners fall out? The answer it seems to me is this. Nothing! So why make it so difficult for normal folks that like this place, who would contribute not take, to want to live and settle here?

Edited June 7, 2011 by newtronbom

[maxtingtong]

I don't understand what the commotion is all about. From now on immigration wants, once a year, to have proof that the stated pension of 65.000 baht/month is actually brought in to Thailand. Apparently there are people that show statements from the embassies of the required minimum income, whether pension or other and then do not bring in the money but most likely do work of some sort illegally in Thailand. I think this is not at all a strange request. For those that do not have an income or pension, the requirement to show proof of 800.000 baht in a Thai bank 3 months prior to the request for extension has been in force for many years. They have become more strict regarding the copy of the bank book. You must now have an entry in the book the same day as you ask for extension, meaning a small transaction must be done that same day.

I don't know if it work the same, but for marriage extension them don't care about your bank book, them want a declaration letter from the bank the very same day you go for it (can do in every branch, at kasikorn it costs 100 baht)

:jap:

[kdc1899]

.

"US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000 (300,000 bt) to the US govt yearly ... That is why I, as an American, am not interested in triggering this report. ... It's really no big deal. Just report the account"

Many retirees are on a status where they are not required to file a tax return with the IRS every year-- especially if they're over age 65 and receiving Social Security benefits, which are not taxable.

If you have a foreign bank account with more than the equivalent of US$10,000, you'll need to file an unnecessary yearly tax return just so you can add the form that reports your foreign bank account. Is anyone actually insane enough to want to go through the hassle and expense of filing a frivolous tax return every year, when they would otherwise not be required to do so?

.

No big deal. Anyone who has zero income except SS and has no assests in that they do not even have to file a 1040EZ is not going to be able to live in Thailand. They need to stay in the U.S. or Her possessions to be able to use the medical. The medical won't work here.

[F1fanatic]

// its all speculation and now out of control speculation.

I agree.

Someone yesterday asked why "famous" members leave ThaiVisa forum;

this kind of rumor that we periodically find here could be a reason...

The very sad thing is that this rumor come from a sponsor and was written by a upper group member.

No other message since yesterday to confirm this speculation

Not good for the already poor credibility of ThaiVisa...

Yes, too many of my "BREAKING NEWS" e-mail alerts from TV, seem to be of the sensationalism genre.

Back to the original subject: "Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions."

Has anyone actually spoken with a Thai Immigration official, and been able to confirm, or deny the original post?

Or, are we stuck with ten pages of useless speculation?

It's an absolute rumour.

The 10 pages are very informative though.

If rumour becomes reality then only those who lied under oath to their embassy officials will have a new hoop to jump thru.

Lots of cheaper and more pleasant places to retire to if being here becomes not worth it ( IT being the young gals that pay attention to you here ).

Presumably its only US citizens that can get away with signing an oath.

When I first retired here I tried to use the 'voluntary' British Consulate on Phuket to validate my monthly income. It was an absolute nightmare, so I ended up making sure I had the necessary 800,000 in the bank.

I understand that there are many Westerners living here that have illegal jobs, but why doesn't the government 'crack down' on them, rather than making us genuinely retired people on a good income go through more hoops?

[Svante]

I don't understand what the commotion is all about. From now on immigration wants, once a year, to have proof that the stated pension of 65.000 baht/month is actually brought in to Thailand. Apparently there are people that show statements from the embassies of the required minimum income, whether pension or other and then do not bring in the money but most likely do work of some sort illegally in Thailand. I think this is not at all a strange request. For those that do not have an income or pension, the requirement to show proof of 800.000 baht in a Thai bank 3 months prior to the request for extension has been in force for many years. They have become more strict regarding the copy of the bank book. You must now have an entry in the book the same day as you ask for extension, meaning a small transaction must be done that same day.

I don't know if it work the same, but for marriage extension them don't care about your bank book, them want a declaration letter from the bank the very same day you go for it (can do in every branch, at kasikorn it costs 100 baht)

:jap:

This is true PROVIDED the bank statement is issued the same day as the application is done, but for logistical reasons this is not always possible, depending on what bank you use and their rules. If your statement is 1 day old, the bankbook is required and MUST be updated the same day.

[SurfRider]

.

"No big deal. Anyone who has zero income except SS and has no assests ... is not going to be able to live in Thailand ... The medical won't work here"

Who said anything about zero income, no assets, and medical coverage?

A retiree can have substantial income, over and above SS and still have no requirement to file. Many factors, such as type of income, deductions, exemptions, charitable contributions, etc., factor into the equation. You clearly know very little about the IRS filing requirements and are wandering far off-topic.

.

[tropo]

I'm only interested in 2 things:

1. Official Thai Immigration announcements stating what "proof" is required.

2. Reports from people making retirement extensions.

Hopefully this type of information won't be lost in a sea of speculation.

[Estrada]

I don't understand what the commotion is all about. From now on immigration wants, once a year, to have proof that the stated pension of 65.000 baht/month is actually brought in to Thailand. Apparently there are people that show statements from the embassies of the required minimum income, whether pension or other and then do not bring in the money but most likely do work of some sort illegally in Thailand. I think this is not at all a strange request. For those that do not have an income or pension, the requirement to show proof of 800.000 baht in a Thai bank 3 months prior to the request for extension has been in force for many years. They have become more strict regarding the copy of the bank book. You must now have an entry in the book the same day as you ask for extension, meaning a small transaction must be done that same day.

I don't know if it work the same, but for marriage extension them don't care about your bank book, them want a declaration letter from the bank the very same day you go for it (can do in every branch, at kasikorn it costs 100 baht)

:jap:

This is true PROVIDED the bank statement is issued the same day as the application is done, but for logistical reasons this is not always possible, depending on what bank you use and their rules. If your statement is 1 day old, the bankbook is required and MUST be updated the same day.

Thanks for the clarification, I wondered why you would need the bank book. Thai Immigration insists that the Bank letter is dated the same day and do not ask for the bank book, but at Chaengwattana many of the major Thai banks are in the basement and can provide the letter and you can update the bank book if they ask fr it. I use retirement visa because, but marriage visa is a long winded hassle, and too much paper work.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Estrada

[bkkharry]

Regarding US social security, for my age group, it can be started at age 62, not 65, if chosen.

But if you choose that route, you get the least amount of money per month. In fact if you wait until past age 65, you will get even more per month. True?

That is of course if the fund will still be in existence when many people born in the late 1950's-early 1960's apply for Social Security.

True, but only if you don't die before you turn 65.

[nikkoid66]

Bad luck for the honest people living in LoS and just having an income of less than 65k a month.....thats an rediculous amount....compared to a THAI citizen....guess just

Abhisit makes that much money a month (over the table)

I know several Thais who are making +50k / month doing guide, selling travel tickets, or just doing accounting in an office.

Did you notice all these trucks and big cars?

There is a middle class in Thailand and it is growing very fast.

Now in the USA, thinks are so bad, that most people I know there are not making this money monthly... Soon, Thai will go in vacation in Miami and the poor Americans will beg for money from the so called 3rd world countries...

[Tafia]

I believe I read in another post some months back that Immigration had accepted the letter from the US Embassy but informed the expat that in future further evidence would be required.

The British Embassy will not issue a letter without evidence.

[wpcoe]

May I respectfully suggest that everybody go back to page one and re-read the OP. As has been mentioned by a few folks throughout the preceding 230+ posts, it could well be (IMHO probably is) that nothing has changed as an Immigrations policy/procedure change.

Those who peruse this forum regularly have seen random reports of some folks who have been asked to produce additional documentation to Immigrations to support their embassy's income letter. Other applicants at the same office, in the same time period, still have their embassy income letters accepted with no additional documentation.

I believe that the OP of this thread simply speculates about those (relatively rare?) episodes. It is not a factual report of a declared change in Immigrations policy/procedure:

"It has been reported that..."

"That position now seems to have changed."

I have posted previously that I suspected that there was some profiling or trigger in such cases that required such additional documentation. Just like purchasing a one-way ticket in cash with no luggage fits a security profile at the airport, I suspect some folks -- probably innocently and perhaps unjustifiably -- trigger a need for more documentation. It could be a subjective "gut feeling" by the Immigrations Officer that something didn't "feel right." Or, it could be a randomness, like at the airport requiring that every 15th person have their carry-on luggage searched.

If Thai Immigration Police make a statement, I'd say things have changed for ALL applicants. But, that hasn't happened yet, has it?