REUTERS Brings Red-Shirt Villages To Light

[anterian]

Is it wishful thinking or do I sense a slight convergence? Whilst everyone seems agreed that the red activists were wicked people, they are reluctant to admit that the yellow activists were just as bad. The airport takeover was not a like a baggage handlers strike. it was not just a friendly tea party, the airport was entered and occupied, suspected red sympathisers were grabbed and beaten, guns were waved and fired from the back of a pickup truck. You are going to ask me for proof, well go and find it yourself, I don't need it. Look in Youtube during those times, search the video archives of the western media, listen to the eye witness accounts of the trapped passengers.

Now you're making things up. Red sympathisers beaten at the airport? That one I'd like to see mentioned in the newspapers somewhere, if you can find it.

The guns being waved and fired from the back of a pick up truck wasn't at the airport. That was at Vipavardi-Rangsit and nothing to do with the protests at the airport.

Economic loss, well according to my friends in the tourist industry the reds and yellows are pretty neck and neck. But speak to the exporters and importers, this is where the real economic loss occurred, at the airport. The main sufferers from the arson were the insurance companies, by declaring it a criminal act rather than a civil conflict it was covered.

As to double standards, I seem to recollect a well known Greek philosopher of hemlock drinking fame who used this expression... in Greek of course

Stop portraying the reds as the sole cause of Thailand's problems, stop portraying Abhisit as God's gift to the nation, and we might be much near to a consensus.

There seem to be too many threads with overlapping topics, perhaps inevitable, and I seem to be arguing with same handful of people in each thread Can't someone simplify this, start a combination thread, " the case for and against Thaksin and the case for and against Abhisit"? I would but I don't know how

I don't think the reds are the sole cause of Thailand's problems, but they are an ongoing problem - attacking Prem in 2007, attacking the yellow shirts in 2008, Songkran 2009, and of course, the 2010 protests, and I'm sure that won't be the last we see of them, regardless of the result of the elections. They will be out again if PTP don't get into government and will be out hassling anti-Thaksin protesters if the PTP do get into government.

The yellow shirts have done their fair share of illegal things, but that hasn't included lobbing grenades, using a well armed militia, or burning down buildings.

Abhisit isn't "God's gift to the nation", but he's certainly better than anything PTP have to offer.

The yellow shirts have used bombs and improvised explosives, they have beaten people and shot at people....just as the reds have done, why do you keep trying to whitewash them. Read this account ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Alliance_for_Democracy

and before you point it out yes I know it has the usual wiki disclaimer, "The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (January 2009)"

The neutrality may be in doubt, but no one is disputing the facts as detailed.

Stop defending the indefensible, rather look at solutions to the problem, a solution acceptable to most, because if intelligent people like yourself cannot see a solution, what chance do Thais have?

[Emptyset]

Is it wishful thinking or do I sense a slight convergence? Whilst everyone seems agreed that the red activists were wicked people, they are reluctant to admit that the yellow activists were just as bad. The airport takeover was not a like a baggage handlers strike. it was not just a friendly tea party, the airport was entered and occupied, suspected red sympathisers were grabbed and beaten, guns were waved and fired from the back of a pickup truck. You are going to ask me for proof, well go and find it yourself, I don't need it. Look in Youtube during those times, search the video archives of the western media, listen to the eye witness accounts of the trapped passengers.

Now you're making things up. Red sympathisers beaten at the airport? That one I'd like to see mentioned in the newspapers somewhere, if you can find it.

The guns being waved and fired from the back of a pick up truck wasn't at the airport. That was at Vipavardi-Rangsit and nothing to do with the protests at the airport.

Well, there was someone taken prisoner and badly beaten. Not sure if he was a red sympathizer or not. Wasn't he a security guard? Can't remember and can't be bothered to dig through the old newspaper reports at this point. Then there was the body found... also they shot at at least one vehicle that approached the airport IIRC, wasn't it a media truck or something? Ah, here you go: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PAD-protesters-intimidate-the-media-30089833.html

Anyway, in terms of tourism, hard to say yet, but take a look at this graph: http://asiancorrespondent.com/38610/thailands-tourism-sector-shows-resiliency/ - there appears to have been a bigger drop during the PAD chaos, but then that coincided with the start of the financial crisis, which imo had much more of an effect than tourism (most tourists are aware they can just avoid troublespots, or they often have no idea there's anything going on at all - remember the tourists during last year's protests that didn't know what all the loud booms and shooting were about?)

[Johpa]

"The campaign platforms of both sides are trying to deal with Thailand's widening wealth gap. The richest 20 percent of Thais earn 55 percent of the country's wealth. That figure is close to Tunisia's, the epicentre of the "Arab spring" uprisings, where the top fifth take in 47 percent of the wealth, according to World Bank statistics."

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/07/uk-thailandelection-idUKTRE75614C20110607

To allow a slightly broader perspective, both Thailand and Tunisia score better on the Gini Index, a measure of nation-state income inequality, than does the USA.

[whybother]

The yellow shirts have used bombs and improvised explosives, they have beaten people and shot at people....just as the reds have done, why do you keep trying to whitewash them. Read this account ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Alliance_for_Democracy

and before you point it out yes I know it has the usual wiki disclaimer, "The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (January 2009)"

The neutrality may be in doubt, but no one is disputing the facts as detailed.

Stop defending the indefensible, rather look at solutions to the problem, a solution acceptable to most, because if intelligent people like yourself cannot see a solution, what chance do Thais have?

I'm not trying to defend them. They broke the law and they should be in jail.

I'm just responding to the usual "... but the yellows ... ", as if what the yellows did was worse than what the reds did, which IMO is far from the truth.

The solution ... Thaksin fading away.

As I said in an earlier post (this or another thread), Thaksin gave the poor a voice. They have it now, and they don't need Thaksin any more. Without him they would get a lot more support.

[hanuman1]

I seem to remember there being quite a well armed militia preventing authorities from dislodging protesters at the airport, but let's not quibble about silly details.

Armed with what?

Okay, so you think getting beaten or hacked to death is better then getting shot to death. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

[anterian]

The yellow shirts have used bombs and improvised explosives, they have beaten people and shot at people....just as the reds have done, why do you keep trying to whitewash them. Read this account ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Alliance_for_Democracy

and before you point it out yes I know it has the usual wiki disclaimer, "The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (January 2009)"

The neutrality may be in doubt, but no one is disputing the facts as detailed.

Stop defending the indefensible, rather look at solutions to the problem, a solution acceptable to most, because if intelligent people like yourself cannot see a solution, what chance do Thais have?

I'm not trying to defend them. They broke the law and they should be in jail.

I'm just responding to the usual "... but the yellows ... ", as if what the yellows did was worse than what the reds did, which IMO is far from the truth.

The solution ... Thaksin fading away.

As I said in an earlier post (this or another thread), Thaksin gave the poor a voice. They have it now, and they don't need Thaksin any more. Without him they would get a lot more support.

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

[jdinasia]

I seem to remember there being quite a well armed militia preventing authorities from dislodging protesters at the airport, but let's not quibble about silly details.

Armed with what?

Okay, so you think getting beaten or hacked to death is better then getting shot to death. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Not stated nor implied and thus a fallacious argument.

---- he asked a question based upon your statement of a "well armed militia". Do you think that a man with an assault rifle and m79 grenade launchers is more dangerous than a guy with a stick?

I do ..Absolutely.

BTW --- at this point in time the PAD is a marginalized fringe group that has splintered. All that are found guilty of violence should go to jail. The reds are still armed and active .. and should be disarmed and all those guilty of violence should be in jail.

[whybother]

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

After shafting the country, Thaksin got shafted by the army - all well deserved.

With Thaksin around, there is no solution.

[anterian]

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

After shafting the country, Thaksin got shafted by the army - all well deserved.

With Thaksin around, there is no solution.

I find your inflexibility distressing.

Those who insist upon living in the past rarely have a happy future.

Far too many people in Thailand, yourself included, still dwell on past events.

The British and Germans, Americans and Japanese, are now friends and allies, in spite of past atrocities.

Progress is how far you have isolated the past from the present, if they are still irrevocably intertwined then there is no progress.

[whybother]

I find your inflexibility distressing.

Those who insist upon living in the past rarely have a happy future.

Far too many people in Thailand, yourself included, still dwell on past events.

The British and Germans, Americans and Japanese, are now friends and allies, in spite of past atrocities.

Progress is how far you have isolated the past from the present, if they are still irrevocably intertwined then there is no progress.

Past events? He's STILL heavily involved. That's why he appointed his sister as PTP's PM candidate.

The people that want Thaksin back are the ones that want to go back to the past.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it".

[gemini81]

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

After shafting the country, Thaksin got shafted by the army - all well deserved.

With Thaksin around, there is no solution.

I find your inflexibility distressing.

Those who insist upon living in the past rarely have a happy future.

Far too many people in Thailand, yourself included, still dwell on past events.

The British and Germans, Americans and Japanese, are now friends and allies, in spite of past atrocities.

Progress is how far you have isolated the past from the present, if they are still irrevocably intertwined then there is no progress.

ill deeds were acknowledged, and so progress was made. Thaksin thinks he must only win, and will never admit responsibilty or wrong doing, nor go through any form of punishment, so therefore he is an entirely different animal. The kind of animal thais with an education recognize, and an animal referred to as "hia" or "dtua ngern dtua thong" ...that's what thaksin is. No progress made until he faces his punishments, finishes his charges, and shows some form or wrong doing and respect for his native country's laws, as well as the very ones that the crook put into place.

Edited June 10, 2011 by gemini81

[TAWP]

You have absolutely no idea. Comparing the Middle Eastern mindset with that of the Thai. Absolutely NONE.

I think you should do some research before you embarass yourself with statements like the above.

Can't compare Thailand with the Middle East mind set? Where do you think these revolutions started? is your memory that short?

"The campaign platforms of both sides are trying to deal with Thailand's widening wealth gap. The richest 20 percent of Thais earn 55 percent of the country's wealth. That figure is close to Tunisia's, the epicentre of the "Arab spring" uprisings, where the top fifth take in 47 percent of the wealth, according to World Bank statistics."

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/07/uk-thailandelection-idUKTRE75614C20110607

If you really think the culture or reasons are comparable then you are again showing your ignorance.

[TAWP]

about equal wealth distribution : how many people of the north east region pay taxes ?

I guess most come from middle class working people out of Bangkok... normal that they get a big piece of the pie ?

They all pay taxes. Each and every time they make a basic purchase to eat, to have a roof over their heads or to obtain the basic necessities. It's called the VAT. Taxes are collected from the poor via the VAT.

Actually, most people will not be paying VAT as the for example food they are paying will not charging VAT as the seller isn't paying VAT...

Do a quick check around how many street food vendors or local small business that report their earnings for tax collection on sold goods (VAT).

[gemini81]

about equal wealth distribution : how many people of the north east region pay taxes ?

I guess most come from middle class working people out of Bangkok... normal that they get a big piece of the pie ?

They all pay taxes. Each and every time they make a basic purchase to eat, to have a roof over their heads or to obtain the basic necessities. It's called the VAT. Taxes are collected from the poor via the VAT.

Actually, most people will not be paying VAT as the for example food they are paying will not charging VAT as the seller isn't paying VAT...

Do a quick check around how many street food vendors or local small business that report their earnings for tax collection on sold goods (VAT).

Yes, he is incorrect. the poor pay no tax and VAT is payed by those with some money. food vendors don't pay nor charge tax. this guy needs to do his homework or at least get used to thailand first.

[animatic]

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

After shafting the country, Thaksin got shafted by the army - all well deserved.

With Thaksin around, there is no solution.

All previously deposed Thai 'leaders' came back and lived quietly, except one, who died abroad, his crimes were too much.

Thaksin broke the long existing mold, be actively seeking revenge, and to take back power. No one was quite prepared for that since it is not very 'Thai' at all. They spent a bit of time playing catchup. But If he comes onto Thai soil and starts trouble this time... I suspect her WILL find it himself, and not just his proxies.

[gemini81]

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

After shafting the country, Thaksin got shafted by the army - all well deserved.

With Thaksin around, there is no solution.

All previously deposed Thai 'leaders' came back and lived quietly, except one, who died abroad, his crimes were too much.

Thaksin broke the long existing mold, be actively seeking revenge, and to take back power. No one was quite prepared for that since it is not very 'Thai' at all. They spent a bit of time playing catchup. But If he comes onto Thai soil and starts trouble this time... I suspect her WILL find it himself, and not just his proxies.

karma returns in the form of looking over his back at all those who he has done wrong to, and shafted, and oppose him. He would return in fear of his life at all times, wouldn't he? Is that any way to live? But this character is hellbent on power and has thinking unlike most of us. I can't fathom living like that. But this tyrant refuses to accept peace and quiet abroad. Most ordinary people would bask in the splendor and forget about politics abroad, but not this scumbag!

[ginjag]

about equal wealth distribution : how many people of the north east region pay taxes ?

I guess most come from middle class working people out of Bangkok... normal that they get a big piece of the pie ?

They all pay taxes. Each and every time they make a basic purchase to eat, to have a roof over their heads or to obtain the basic necessities. It's called the VAT. Taxes are collected from the poor via the VAT.

Actually, most people will not be paying VAT as the for example food they are paying will not charging VAT as the seller isn't paying VAT...

Do a quick check around how many street food vendors or local small business that report their earnings for tax collection on sold goods (VAT).

Yes, he is incorrect. the poor pay no tax and VAT is payed by those with some money. food vendors don't pay nor charge tax. this guy needs to do his homework or at least get used to thailand first.

Poor people pay a good deal of tax, living amongst them you will find that many buy from street venders yes, I will agree there BUT nearly all will be buying their Laos kao, cigs, from wholesale shops and 7-11s + Tesco express and pay the heavy said rate, some of you forgot that? and also when they top up with 91 octane/diesel from Caltex again they will pay the said rate. Even many do not use the free town medical..farm families go to clinics for pills and pay again. so I hope it adds to your discussion on the N/E avoid tax-or not pay.

[Maestro]

A nonsensical report referring to somebody as "Takki" has been removed.

[manarak]

I'm not sure if this article is saying that some kind of segregation is being proposed by some faction of the red shirt movement.

It apparently stops short of saying that but may be implying it. If it were indeed the case that these people officially wanted segregated areas based along political lines (or any other lines for that matter), that would be a very disturbing move on their part.

Did you mean segregation (i.e. separate buses for red shirts) or secession (villages want to be governed by red shirts, not the central gov) ?

[manarak]

about equal wealth distribution : how many people of the north east region pay taxes ?

I guess most come from middle class working people out of Bangkok... normal that they get a big piece of the pie ?

They all pay taxes. Each and every time they make a basic purchase to eat, to have a roof over their heads or to obtain the basic necessities. It's called the VAT. Taxes are collected from the poor via the VAT.

Actually, most people will not be paying VAT as the for example food they are paying will not charging VAT as the seller isn't paying VAT...

Do a quick check around how many street food vendors or local small business that report their earnings for tax collection on sold goods (VAT).

And I think that is the way it should be.

[kropotkin]

Unfortunately Thaksin fading away is not on the cards. This is something I can understand, he got shafted by the army then further shafted by the courts (all quite legally of course ). The fact that he is a conniving, corrupt individual is irrelevant, he is a Thai, and no Thai will take that lying down, Thais and Sicilians share a common quality, the vendetta. Thaksin, Abhisit, certain army Generals and judges, have got to come to terms with each other. Prem is also part of this and those he represents. There is a deadline to this, a deadline whose date is only known to the man with the scythe. Reds, yellows, whites, rainbows, are all just pawns in this power play. I wish I could speak more clearly, but I dare not, but all I can say it that any solution has to satisfy both Thaksin and his enemies, else unleash the dogs of war. Forget legalities, justice, concepts like this, they were never that important to Thais, someone has to broker a compromise to resolve this conflict.

After shafting the country, Thaksin got shafted by the army - all well deserved.

With Thaksin around, there is no solution.

All previously deposed Thai 'leaders' came back and lived quietly, except one, who died abroad, his crimes were too much.

Thaksin broke the long existing mold, be actively seeking revenge, and to take back power. No one was quite prepared for that since it is not very 'Thai' at all. They spent a bit of time playing catchup. But If he comes onto Thai soil and starts trouble this time... I suspect her WILL find it himself, and not just his proxies.

karma returns in the form of looking over his back at all those who he has done wrong to, and shafted, and oppose him. He would return in fear of his life at all times, wouldn't he? Is that any way to live? But this character is hellbent on power and has thinking unlike most of us. I can't fathom living like that. But this tyrant refuses to accept peace and quiet abroad. Most ordinary people would bask in the splendor and forget about politics abroad, but not this scumbag!

The last word of this post says more about the poster then about the fugitive.

[hanuman1]

I'm not sure if this article is saying that some kind of segregation is being proposed by some faction of the red shirt movement.

It apparently stops short of saying that but may be implying it. If it were indeed the case that these people officially wanted segregated areas based along political lines (or any other lines for that matter), that would be a very disturbing move on their part.

Did you mean segregation (i.e. separate buses for red shirts) or secession (villages want to be governed by red shirts, not the central gov) ?

I meant some kind of segregation and wasn't thinking about buses or any other kind of vehicle, nor specific seats on said vehicle, at the time.

[rubl]

I'm not sure if this article is saying that some kind of segregation is being proposed by some faction of the red shirt movement.

It apparently stops short of saying that but may be implying it. If it were indeed the case that these people officially wanted segregated areas based along political lines (or any other lines for that matter), that would be a very disturbing move on their part.

Did you mean segregation (i.e. separate buses for red shirts) or secession (villages want to be governed by red shirts, not the central gov) ?

I meant some kind of segregation and wasn't thinking about buses or any other kind of vehicle, nor specific seats on said vehicle, at the time.

'I meant ... wasn't thinking about ... nor specific seats ... at the time'.

May I ask if this means you are thinking about it now?

[ianf]

A typical blind response, it is nothing to do with the severity of the offense, an offense is an offense. Some offenders are punished, some are not. This is double standards whether you accept it or not.

Correct -- an offense is an offense. So far I see some on all sides being punished. You might want to research when the phrase "double standards" first started being used in Thailand. I'll even point you in the right direction --- Thaksin 2001

Is it wishful thinking or do I sense a slight convergence? Whilst everyone seems agreed that the red activists were wicked people, they are reluctant to admit that the yellow activists were just as bad. The airport takeover was not a like a baggage handlers strike. it was not just a friendly tea party, the airport was entered and occupied, suspected red sympathisers were grabbed and beaten, guns were waved and fired from the back of a pickup truck. You are going to ask me for proof, well go and find it yourself, I don't need it. Look in Youtube during those times, search the video archives of the western media, listen to the eye witness accounts of the trapped passengers.

Economic loss, well according to my friends in the tourist industry the reds and yellows are pretty neck and neck. But speak to the exporters and importers, this is where the real economic loss occurred, at the airport. The main sufferers from the arson were the insurance companies, by declaring it a criminal act rather than a civil conflict it was covered.

As to double standards, I seem to recollect a well known Greek philosopher of hemlock drinking fame who used this expression... in Greek of course

Stop portraying the reds as the sole cause of Thailand's problems, stop portraying Abhisit as God's gift to the nation, and we might be much near to a consensus.

There seem to be too many threads with overlapping topics, perhaps inevitable, and I seem to be arguing with same handful of people in each thread Can't someone simplify this, start a combination thread, " the case for and against Thaksin and the case for and against Abhisit"? I would but I don't know how

There is no case against Abhisit. There is a strong case against Thaksin. Please read my earlier posts. When will people get the fact that Thaksin is not acting on his own, that the threat is Global? That the events in Thailand are being carefully manipulated from the outside? That Abhisit has his back against the wall? And so on? Using this context the posts on this thread seem empty and way off the mark. Creating diversons is part of the Global masterplan. Search Global on the internet .......

Edited June 11, 2011 by ianf

[anterian]

I grew up during WW2, I can remember all the cartoon, caricatures, scurrilous song and ditties about Hitler. The man was hated vilified and lampooned, simply because he was the enemy. Remember this was long before we knew of concentration camps and the holocaust. We were fighting Germany, but Hitler was our focal point, our bête noire. He was a house painter, a corporal, he only had one ball, we probably would have called him a scumbag if the word existed then.

In Thailand the Democrats, the army, and those who really control them, are fighting a populist movement of the underprivileged, Thaksin is a convenient focal point for the opponents of this movement. They keep him centre stage, every day the media, the politicians, Internet users, just cannot leave him alone, yet it has been said there is no such thing as bad publicity, just publicity.

The Red movement, irrespective of its origins has grown from a mouse (some of you will say a rat) until it is now an elephant. Thaksin at one time was the trainer of this beast, he thinks he still is, his enemies think he is, but they are wrong. The beast is growing up, it still has fond memories of it old trainer but it now has increasingly a mind of its own. Thaksin is increasingly a man hitching a ride on an elephant, with not much control over where it is going.

The current controllers of Thailand, you know who they are, are looking at the rider, not the elephant, they think the rider controls the elephant. They are wrong, at best the elephant will accept a nudge from its rider. Yet remove that rider and there is nothing left to control the elephant.

Come to an arrangement with the rider now, while he still has some semblance of control. If you just seek to knock him off the elephant you are left will a rampaging elephant.

The rider may be wicked, may be corrupt and self seeking and all the other things that people say, but he does have some control over the elephant, why seek to destroy him and leave the elephant totally out of control? Can a group of buffaloes control a rampaging elephant? Because this is what you are, in both the English and the Thai sense, a herd of buffaloes.

[Ricardo]

No offence taken ...

In this case, I think the rider buys the elephant's daily-food, and wish that the elephant could run-away from the circus, to find itself !

[jdinasia]

If we are to use allegory. instead of reality. Then I would suggest that the Reds are the people of Hamelin ---- Thaksin is the pied piper that if not paid will lead them to their ruin.

[hanuman1]

I'm not sure if this article is saying that some kind of segregation is being proposed by some faction of the red shirt movement.

It apparently stops short of saying that but may be implying it. If it were indeed the case that these people officially wanted segregated areas based along political lines (or any other lines for that matter), that would be a very disturbing move on their part.

Did you mean segregation (i.e. separate buses for red shirts) or secession (villages want to be governed by red shirts, not the central gov) ?

I meant some kind of segregation and wasn't thinking about buses or any other kind of vehicle, nor specific seats on said vehicle, at the time.

'I meant ... wasn't thinking about ... nor specific seats ... at the time'.

May I ask if this means you are thinking about it now?

Of course you may, my friend.

I wasn't thinking about it when I wrote my original post. Then when I wrote about it I was thinking about it.

Are you thinking about an orange now? I bet you are.

I fear this highlights the kind of logic-trap a lot of posters seem to fall into when one person says something didn't happen and then another poster thinks that it means that the diametrically opposite action must therefore have happened. Not necessarily so at all. That way lies chaos and havoc.