Thailand Live Tuesday 15 October 2024

[CMX]

'Bye Carrefoo!

Anyone who's not been to the Carrefour lately won't find it. The deconstructing is about completed, now that plastic bags have been replaced. But it is not Big C that has replaced it, exactly; it is Big C Extra! (Still, we negotiate arriving and parking among ordinary Big C traffic cones.) I saw the writing on the wall before Christmas time of '09. They quit selling golf balls in tourist season. It occurred to me then that the farang customers were not so numerous as might be required to support the place. And in their statement about retreating from the region, there was indeed some yada-yada about business plan and fit. Everyone knows that higher-end products make more money.

I've thought of Carrefour, in France, as the family sedan of hypermarkets. Most offerings are a taste upscale from the others, Auchan, or the many (intermediate car) Le Clercs, Mammouth, Casino (which also has little sub-compact stores akin to Lotus/Express), and so forth. Now our Carrefoo is gone. But its product line was of course also aimed at Thai citizens, and there they were competing with Lotus and Big C, and sometimes Makro. Not their European style, I guess.

Today, Carrefour's own Dijon mustard is missing. I almost always passed up on their chocolate, but miss its price, and I'm down to the end of mustard. Two weeks ago I saw a table of a variety of Carrefour brands – clearance offerings. Meanwhile, I was amused to read in some English language rag the suggested that now, with Tesco/Lotus going head to head with Big C, hot competition would profit the customer. Between moments of waiting for this to occur, I'm wondering what they teach in economics classes in the Land of Smiles (though, of course such thinking calls for disabling laughter).

However, there's that Extra word to consider. As if to invite farang baht, there were, earlier this week, Extra handouts, one of which specially offered products from...Australia! Moreover, Big C has added a product line from Casino. Farang-nation flags flew over two food products. I noted that “Hygienic Chicken” was offered (as opposed to what?).

On the other hand, neighbors will see one's plastic bags – another reason for environmental action and a fabric shopping bag.

No, for me, it won't be the same. Never was, really. Bye, Carrefou

[phutoie2]

Good report mate!, first one I have read on this.

Not from your province, much further south but I shop regulary at Carrefour Lop Buri which no doubt is now along the same lines.

Off to investigate next week!.

[Ricardo]

My kids always enjoyed their frozen-pizza & quiches, also now being run-out, as the hand-over is carried out. Somehow I doubt that the merger will improve their already-rather-limited offering of farang-foods.

[SwaziBird]

A most strange transition arrangement indeed! This week I visited Carrefour ( or, what was Carrefour )only to find the great big and familiar Roadside sign gone.

Plastic carrier bags at each check-out were still branded "Carrefour". When my wife presented the "Carrefour" Members Card it was readily accepted. Even the cash register docket was headed "Carrefour".

To make things more bewildering, a staff member advised that, indeed, the business had been sold and taken over in April by BIG C EXTRA which, according to him was not Big C with which we are familiar, but a different company altogether. Go figure !!

Cheers.

Edited June 11, 2011 by SwaziBird

[Tywais]

according to him was not Big C with which we are familiar, but a different company altogether.

I don't follow that as BigC is the one that bought CareFour and re-branded it.

Worawan added that Big C is in the process of changing logo and sign from Carrefour to Big C Extra now that it has taken over Carrefour stores, starting with the Lardprao branch.

Thaivisa topic

Bigger and Better.

“Big C Extra” will offer exciting shopping experience and new lifestyle dimensions to all range of customers. At the initial stage, Big C Extra will present shoppers with something beyond just a wide range of premium imported merchandise sourced from around the world including France, something beyond daily fresh meats and something beyond regular hypermarket services. The new dimensions on Big C Extra stores will gradually be unveiled and continue to evolve throughout this year to offer merchandise and services that best meet specific customers’ preferences and lifestyles. Big C Supercenter would like to invite customers to come be a part of the new experience with us” Mr. Kudatara said.

newswit.com

[elektrified]

This has been discussed at length in the General Forum. Don't give up hope just yet. Have you been to the Big C Super Highway lately? They have many house brands of products imported from France and are supposed to be stocking many more items very soon.

The chain is now part of Groupe Casino/Casino Guichard-Perrachon, which is a large French multinational corporation, formerly part of the CAC 40 index, whose main business is with retail and distribution in hyper and supermarkets.

There is still hope for finding your moutarde!

[CMX]

Did not mean to suggest that Big C Extra is different from home company, Big C in this sales area. Sorry if unclear!

Did mean to address this community because I'm only interested in the judgments/opinions of our experience, and the issue relates to availability of items in CM, which relationship would be unique to us.

Understood that "Extra" meant a sales scheme to alert buyers to a greater variety, perhaps more aimed at farang buyers to some degree.

Do see Casino brand items now. But the company claim that they will introduce new products over the year to see if customers like them (which I believe), is not altogether reassuring, as we may have stopped looking for favorites by then.

Taken all together, it appears to me that the changeover has been deliberate and thoughtful - but I've no idea if it's winning hearts, people, and baht, or shall.

But, obviously, if I really want a Carrefour experience, I have to discover an Air Asia special special to Orly.

[wimpy]

I was pleased to find that several of my favorite Carrefour brand items (Coulommiers cheese and 500gm butter) are still being sold, but under the Casino label. Obviously the exact same items. They are also still baking country sour bread. The baguettes haven't changed either.

[OriginalPoster]

Wow, such passion over a supermarket.

[Firelily]

anyone knows of replacement for the Carrefour brand orange-flavoured chocolate? all other chocolate is impossibly expensive or crap

[Ashoka]

I have noticed there is a new clientele visiting "Big C Plus", it appears to be the same people that patronise other establishments my wife and I do not shop at simply because we do not like having to push unthoughtfully placed trolleys out of our way every time we want to get down an isle. My wife also pointed out to me that the "gawkers" as we call them are turning up, those are the people that come to enjoy the air condition with their entire family (all 3 generations), have no intention of buying anything and give you strange looks when you try to get past them, these are the people that also tend to put themselves in between you and a product you are trying to look at and they pick it up, spend 10 minutes examining it before they set it down, smile at you and step back but never walk off, just waiting to see what you do. My understanding is that Carrefour sold out not because of lack of business but bad management. I have also noticed the rudeness level of the establishment has rising and I think we will be shopping more at Rimping and Tops with out doubt. And if you thinking this sort of thing doesn't bother Thais... my wife and I are Thai

[endure]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

[OriginalPoster]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

And I've never understood the more-Thai-than-Thou mentality. Nothing wrong with holding onto certain aspects of your pre-Thailand life when living here. Even if someone tried to 100% isolate themselves from the Thai way of life the would not succeed, they would still get sufficiently doused with Thainess that the experience of living here would be entirely different than if they were still living in their home country.

[Ashoka]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

Globalisation, when I went to school in the West I could buy products from home at an inflated price not unlike buying Western products here in Thailand. More and more Thai people can afford things from other countries and we like them not unlike Western people who enjoy curries and kimchi. I do not think it is too much to ask that we be allowed to enjoy international products as most Western countries do especially since so many Western companies like 7-11, Tesco Lotus, Pizza Hut, KFC, McDonnalds, etc. are enjoying charging us higher prices for smaller portions than in the West and not offering the same quality, discounts or coupons you enjoy in the West. I do not feel that anyone is complaining but our selection is becoming limited unless we live in Bangkok. Thailand is only a developing nation because every time we take a step forward we take two steps backward and maybe that is because people are telling us to just settle for what we have and be quiet.

[Ashoka]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

And I've never understood the more-Thai-than-Thou mentality. Nothing wrong with holding onto certain aspects of your pre-Thailand life when living here. Even if someone tried to 100% isolate themselves from the Thai way of life the would not succeed, they would still get sufficiently doused with Thainess that the experience of living here would be entirely different than if they were still living in their home country.

I agree with you 100% and I think people really have a warped idea of what the Thai way is. People that live in a totally traditional Thai way do so because they don't have much of a choice financially or because of lack of education. I grew up in a time when we had money but no products to buy so we were forced to live a "traditional" Thai life style. Currently I have no desire to live in a hut or a wooden house without screens nor air condition, I also enjoy the Internet, different foods and cultures as well as safe and reliable European cars, I believe speaking one language is a thing from the past and those who live like a frog in a box will bring their own suffering in the end.

[endure]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

And I've never understood the more-Thai-than-Thou mentality. Nothing wrong with holding onto certain aspects of your pre-Thailand life when living here. Even if someone tried to 100% isolate themselves from the Thai way of life the would not succeed, they would still get sufficiently doused with Thainess that the experience of living here would be entirely different than if they were still living in their home country.

I'm a farang who lives in Farangland. I have no dog in the 'more Thai than Thou' fight. I'm just curious as to what you'd think if you were still living in your home country and you met a Thai immigrant in your country who complained about the fact that your country wasn't 'Thai' enough for him?

[Ashoka]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

And I've never understood the more-Thai-than-Thou mentality. Nothing wrong with holding onto certain aspects of your pre-Thailand life when living here. Even if someone tried to 100% isolate themselves from the Thai way of life the would not succeed, they would still get sufficiently doused with Thainess that the experience of living here would be entirely different than if they were still living in their home country.

I'm a farang who lives in Farangland. I have no dog in the 'more Thai than Thou' fight. I'm just curious as to what you'd think if you were still living in your home country and you met a Thai immigrant in your country who complained about the fact that your country wasn't 'Thai' enough for him?

Well there is Thaitown in Los Angles for anyone feeling homesick. I really enjoyed where I lived in the USA because this kind of conversation would have never turned into what it has. People are accepting of different nationalities and cultures and we all got along fine and I do not recall ever not being able to find a product from anywhere in the world that I was looking for, my wife went to school in the UK and had a similar experience.

[Ulysses G.]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned.

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan about other expats who simply want to buy a product that they enjoy.

[Riley'sLife]

How very refreshing to read the educated and considered opinion of a Thai National in the forum. Especially when the opinion is written in English that I can actually understand, unlike the posts by so many English speaking members who should be ashamed of their lack of interest in the correct use of their mother tongue. Welcome to the forum Ashoka.

[OriginalPoster]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned. It's a bit like someone from Isan moving to Worcester and complaining that there's no pla ra.

And I've never understood the more-Thai-than-Thou mentality. Nothing wrong with holding onto certain aspects of your pre-Thailand life when living here. Even if someone tried to 100% isolate themselves from the Thai way of life the would not succeed, they would still get sufficiently doused with Thainess that the experience of living here would be entirely different than if they were still living in their home country.

I'm a farang who lives in Farangland. I have no dog in the 'more Thai than Thou' fight. I'm just curious as to what you'd think if you were still living in your home country and you met a Thai immigrant in your country who complained about the fact that your country wasn't 'Thai' enough for him?

I've known plenty of Thais when living in the US when I was living & working in the east Coast of the US. Most of them were there because they moved over for a job, education, or some business opportunity. Plenty of people from other Asian countries too. Particularly in terms of food, maybe "complained" wouldn't be the right thing to call it but many of them seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time traveling to a particular neighborhood in NYC to stock up ingredients and seeking out local restaurants that have food vaguely similar to home. Thais abroad get as homesick as anyone and are proud of their home country as anyone - that type of behavior is not the specific domain of Westerners abroad. And while Thais living abroad commonly do go to great efforts to fit in, they certainly don't have any sense that it is somehow wrong to savor the culture of the country that they left behind nor to partake in whatever aspects of if they can find in their new land.

But you ask what I would think of such people? As far as I was concerned it was completely OK but definitely you'd run into rednecks who had a problem with it. That type of thing is not the domain of any one country either -- you'll find a certain number of Thais in Thailand that resent farangs just for being farangs, just as you'll find a certain number of people in the West that will bitch & moan about <deleted> foreigners. Though if your point is that it's much more common in the West to hear someone say "get the h3ll out of my country if you don't like it" in response to a foreigners who don't integrate than it is in Thailand, I'd agree with that.

Edited June 26, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan that they can't get a condiment whose manufacture is consigned to a small part of the land mass that they've voluntarily abandoned.

I've never understood the mentality of folks who move half way round the world and then piss and moan about other expats who simply want to buy a product that they enjoy.

UG, it took 12 posting into this thread before that type of thing came up. That must be a record on a Western goods or Western food thread on ThaiVisa. Usually it would only take one or two.

[LJW]

I think Ashoka is more American than Thai

[trainman34014]

I think Ashoka is more American than Thai

I think Ashoka has brought a breath of fresh air to this forum and long may he continue to participate.

[Greenside]

I have noticed there is a new clientele visiting "Big C Plus", it appears to be the same people that patronise other establishments my wife and I do not shop at simply because we do not like having to push unthoughtfully placed trolleys out of our way every time we want to get down an isle. My wife also pointed out to me that the "gawkers" as we call them are turning up, those are the people that come to enjoy the air condition with their entire family (all 3 generations), have no intention of buying anything and give you strange looks when you try to get past them, these are the people that also tend to put themselves in between you and a product you are trying to look at and they pick it up, spend 10 minutes examining it before they set it down, smile at you and step back but never walk off, just waiting to see what you do. My understanding is that Carrefour sold out not because of lack of business but bad management. I have also noticed the rudeness level of the establishment has rising and I think we will be shopping more at Rimping and Tops with out doubt. And if you thinking this sort of thing doesn't bother Thais... my wife and I are Thai

Actually, I believe that Carrefour's publicly stated reason for quitting the Thai market was that it had little chance of becoming a market leader in the face of the entrenched competition i.e. Big C and Tesco Lotus. They claim to be concentrating their efforts to exploit the Chinese market and, given its relative size and immaturity, it's probably not a dumb idea. Dealing with the protectionist and unpredictable authorities there will present much more of a challenge, not to say risk, so the jury will probably be out for a long time before we see if they made the right call. Whatever, the loss of competition here will not be a good thing in the longer term for consumers of all nationalities.

Although Carrefour's image in France is said to be at the lower end of the scale, it's my impression that their operations elsewhere targeted a consumer a cut above the typical Big C shopper. The consumer market outside Bangkok and possibly Chiang Mai is still very unsophisticated and Big C seems to give people what they want. The level of gawkers is not really surprising - I have to keep reminding myself that many of these visitors may have made the transition from the proverbial village wooden hut with an outside toilet to a modern house complete with a bathroom for every member of the family in just a few short years so it's no wonder Grandma and Grandpa want to see that new fangled shopping centre! You see this in big cities in China all the time - in fact I remember taking my Grandmother to see the very first MacDonalds when it opened in London. She loved it (or said she did!).

As someone said above, welcome to the CM Forum - it's nice to have input from someone with a wider viewpoint who is prepared make an effort to contribute beyond the comparative merits of pizzas, ribs or hamburgers.

[elektrified]

I think Ashoka is more American than Thai

I think Ashoka has brought a breath of fresh air to this forum and long may he continue to participate.

Excellent posts from Ashoka. Welcome to the forum.

I'm originally from Los Angeles and I really enjoyed spending time in Thai Town. Los Angelinos are very fortunate to have not only Thai Town but Korea Town, Olvera Street, China Town, Little Tokyo and a long list of multi-cultured parts of town.

[neilrob]

Having shopped many times at Carrefour, and several times since at Big C Extra, the one thing I've noticed is that Big C has increased prices on many items. For which reason I mourn the passing of Carrefour.

[CMX]

I grew up in a city that was comprised of many ethnic groups and offered as many cuisines. Now the place is homogenized. There's much to be said for variety in food - and points of view. It was a delicious time.

I suppose that most of us have joined Thai customs and culture in some way (you have to, if only merely to stay alive and well in traffic) while on the other hand those of us trying, as much as is possible, to live in the Thai way fall far short of their goal. None of us is a cultural purebred.

In sum, variety is nice and lower prices are too. But in lamenting the loss of variety in Carrefour's withdrawal, I certainly did not mean to suggest any specific path.

[Ashoka]

I think Ashoka is more American than Thai

Thank you all for your kindness. I went to school in the USA this is why my English is better than the average young Thai, we didn't have computers, Internet and talking dictionaries when I went to school so it was necessary to learn a language properly., I think if you speak with older Thai people you will notice they speak much better English as well as other languages.

[ignis]

No idea up there in C.M, but the big difference shopping last week and yesterday is the price hike, prices are just crazy, guess will have to drive an extra 20km round trip and go to Tesco.. even the cashier said she now shops at Tesco as Big C Extra prices are silly.

[ozsamurai]

<br />I have noticed there is a new clientele visiting "Big C Plus", it appears to be the same people that patronise other establishments my wife and I do not shop at simply because we do not like having to push unthoughtfully placed trolleys out of our way every time we want to get down an isle. My wife also pointed out to me that the "gawkers" as we call them are turning up, those are the people that come to enjoy the air condition with their entire family (all 3 generations), have no intention of buying anything and give you strange looks when you try to get past them, these are the people that also tend to put themselves in between you and a product you are trying to look at and they pick it up, spend 10 minutes examining it before they set it down, smile at you and step back but never walk off, just waiting to see what you do. My understanding is that Carrefour sold out not because of lack of business but bad management. I have also noticed the rudeness level of the establishment has rising and I think we will be shopping more at Rimping and Tops with out doubt. And if you thinking this sort of thing doesn't bother Thais... my wife and I are Thai<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Couldn't agree with you more..unfortunately in my Carrefour (Big C EXTRA?) its the Thai that are the rudest. New shopping rule, hit the cart first prepare for the look of shock, fake smile apologize and keep pushing through ...

Oz