PM: Thais To Choose Between Amnesty For Thaksin Or Social Issues On Election Day

[Lite Beer]

PM: Thais to choose between amnesty for Thaksin or social issues on election day

BANGKOK, 12 June 2011 (NNT)-Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the Election Day, 3 July 2011, will be the day for Thai people to decide whether they would like to grant amnesty to former Prime Minister, Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra, or not.

In response to the media, Mr. Abhisit said the amnesty could only be granted to those who had been prosecuted by law; however, Mr. Thaksin had not even come to hear his charges, so this was irrelevant to the amnesty.

The Prime Minister further expressed his opinion that on 3 July 2011, the Thai people would make a decision whether they would rather dwell on the amnesty issue or pay attention to how the new government would solve problems for the country.

-- NNT 2011-06-12

[473geo]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

[otherstuff1957]

So, is the PT strategy to draft laws which will proactively give Thaksin amnesty for those crimes that he has been accused of, but not formally charged with because he fled the country?  Or will they just get the charges dropped by delivering some extra tasty desserts to the judges?  

Here is an old list of pending charges against him from the BBC (I think the first case was the one they lost):  

Case one: Abuse of power related to purchase of state land by his wife. Who: Thaksin and his wife. Status: Trial underway

Case two: Abuse of power linked to government lottery scheme. Who: Thaksin and several former Cabinet ministers. Status: Case accepted by Supreme Court

Case three: Abuse of power related to state loan to Burma alleged to have benefited family business. Who: Thaksin. Status: Case accepted by Supreme Court

Case four: Concealing assets. Who: Thaksin, wife and two others. Status: Awaiting court decision on proceeding to trial

Case five: Tax evasion. Who: Members of Thaksin's family. Status: Pojaman Shinawatra and her brother jailed for three years, her secretary for two years

Several other claims also lodged

Edited June 12, 2011 by otherstuff1957

[rubl]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

Whatever the current caretaker government may have, the OP said "... pay attention to how the new government would solve problems for the country".

The Dem's and other parties are looking to sway voters, the caretaker government is not. They just take care and prepare to hand over to a new government. The Dem's (and coalition partners) are looking forward to continue of course, just like the PTP would like and is looking forward to continue where it left off in 2008 (bring back Thaksin)

[Artisi]

Bringing back Thaksin will ensure a very unstable country well into the future.

There may well be many people who want him back, but likewise there are many who don't which is the recipe for a lot of ongoing problems.

[473geo]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

Whatever the current caretaker government may have, the OP said "... pay attention to how the new government would solve problems for the country".

The Dem's and other parties are looking to sway voters, the caretaker government is not. They just take care and prepare to hand over to a new government. The Dem's (and coalition partners) are looking forward to continue of course, just like the PTP would like and is looking forward to continue where it left off in 2008 (bring back Thaksin)

Well I guess we will have to wait and see........but if that is the stance of the opposing parties to PTP......they appear to be running out of reasons not to vote PTP, as this issue has been there all along........and the polls are still not looking favourably on the democrats.....as I see it...... .

[animatic]

And no matter how PTP wants to cut it.

If their party ALONE does not get the votes to do this,

then there IS NO MANDATE to do this for Thaksin.

If PTP win 35% of the voting public,

and the Dems win 34.5%

PTP gets first crack at forming a government,

fist crack not for ever until the do.

But that would still mean 100% minus 35% means

65% of the Thai voters

DID NOT VOTE FOR THAKSINS AMNESTY.

If they still try to push that through with a minority plus coalition, there will no doubt be hell to pay. Instability may just be a prelude to REAL problems.

Edited June 12, 2011 by animatic

[kerryk]

Bringing back Thaksin will ensure a very unstable country well into the future.

There may well be many people who want him back, but likewise there are many who don't which is the recipe for a lot of ongoing problems.

There may also be people who like to see governments and constitutions formed by elected officials rather than military coups.

[473geo]

And no matter how PTP wants to cut it.

If their party ALONE does not get the votes to do this,

then there IS NO MANDATE to do this for Thaksin.

If PTP win 35% of the voting public,

and the Dems win 34.5%

PTP gets first crack at forming a government,

fist crack not for ever until the do.

But that would still mean 100% minus 35% means

65% of the Thai voters

DID NOT VOTE FOR THAKSINS AMNESTY.

If they still try to push that through with a minority plus coalition, there will no doubt be hell to pay. Instability may just be a prelude to REAL problems.

That is as I said before, all the doom and gloom over the return of Thaksin, or not, is purely hypothetical if PT must form alliances to govern, the smaller parties may quite simply block attempts to push legislation through. But because the threat of Thaksin returning is the main obstacle many put forward for not voting PT they still work on what could be no more than an scaremongering assumption.

[JurgenG]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

The government has no plan.

Put it simple, the Thais society is divided in two. A minority who do nothing, call themselves the elite. And the rural poor who are in charge to feed the "elite".

Then, as this can't obviously work, you have a third party, generation of chinese immigrants who do all the administration work.

The plan of the democrats is : no change !

So basically lets focus on Thaksin so nobody will realize we have absolutely no plan.

[rubl]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

Whatever the current caretaker government may have, the OP said "... pay attention to how the new government would solve problems for the country".

The Dem's and other parties are looking to sway voters, the caretaker government is not. They just take care and prepare to hand over to a new government. The Dem's (and coalition partners) are looking forward to continue of course, just like the PTP would like and is looking forward to continue where it left off in 2008 (bring back Thaksin)

Well I guess we will have to wait and see........but if that is the stance of the opposing parties to PTP......they appear to be running out of reasons not to vote PTP, as this issue has been there all along........and the polls are still not looking favourably on the democrats.....as I see it...... .

The parties opposing the PTP in the coming elections would in principle be all other parties. I mean a party joins the election trying to attract voters, now wouldn't you say so? As for running out of reasons not to vote for one party, start looking for reasons why to vote for a certain party. Think positive, man

[473geo]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

Whatever the current caretaker government may have, the OP said "... pay attention to how the new government would solve problems for the country".

The Dem's and other parties are looking to sway voters, the caretaker government is not. They just take care and prepare to hand over to a new government. The Dem's (and coalition partners) are looking forward to continue of course, just like the PTP would like and is looking forward to continue where it left off in 2008 (bring back Thaksin)

Well I guess we will have to wait and see........but if that is the stance of the opposing parties to PTP......they appear to be running out of reasons not to vote PTP, as this issue has been there all along........and the polls are still not looking favourably on the democrats.....as I see it...... .

The parties opposing the PTP in the coming elections would in principle be all other parties. I mean a party joins the election trying to attract voters, now wouldn't you say so? As for running out of reasons not to vote for one party, start looking for reasons why to vote for a certain party. Think positive, man

Yingluck has listed the ambitions of PT to carry Thailand forward, Abhisit later appeared to find most of the improvements for the country were on his list too......I guess he just needs another term to get around to them.....

Edited June 12, 2011 by 473geo

[geriatrickid]

I was unaware the nation was having a plebiscite on the subject of an amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. I didn't know the question was on the ballot. Mr. Abhisit undermined his argument when he said that Mr Thaksin was not there to hear the charges, so the amnesty was irelevant. If there cannot be an amnesty it is a non-issue. Why raise the issue then if it is an "impossibility"?

As I understand it, Mr. Thaksin was judged guilty on some charges. Hence, the amnesty is indeed possible. On the other charges being bandied about, they can be withdrawn. Whether Mr. Abhisit likes it or not, the charges will eventually be vacated and anything else pending will be dropped. It's going to happen, no matter how many TVF members pout and stomp their feet.

[ianbaggie]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

Personally I think hes asking the Thai people if they need a wanted criminal whos convicted on three counts to run the country on the promise of a few handouts

[ianbaggie]

Bringing back Thaksin will ensure a very unstable country well into the future.

There may well be many people who want him back, but likewise there are many who don't which is the recipe for a lot of ongoing problems.

Exactly!!!! in Sukhothai and in Tak and in Pitsanalot the pheu Thai party street posters are largely defaced. theyre having village meetings about who the best parties are to tactically vote for to keep Pheu Thai out. I was quite surprised Saturday and Sunday at the strength of anti Thaksin feeling. One old lady told my wife "if Thaksin was any good hed be here now!!" Many Thais KNOW the best way forward for their country!!

[ianbaggie]

Bringing back Thaksin will ensure a very unstable country well into the future.

There may well be many people who want him back, but likewise there are many who don't which is the recipe for a lot of ongoing problems.

There may also be people who like to see governments and constitutions formed by elected officials rather than military coups.

..............Good point Kerry - but you forgot to add "even if those elected Governments ARE full of convicted criminals - much as the Nazi government of Germany was..........." That bit is very relevant - its what STOPS the PTP from EVER being democratic - even if they win.

[ianbaggie]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

The government has no plan.

Put it simple, the Thais society is divided in two. A minority who do nothing, call themselves the elite. And the rural poor who are in charge to feed the "elite".

Then, as this can't obviously work, you have a third party, generation of chinese immigrants who do all the administration work.

The plan of the democrats is : no change !

So basically lets focus on Thaksin so nobody will realize we have absolutely no plan.

You have a very child like perception of Thailand - there are HUGE numbers of rural folk against thaksin and there are many middle class people who do not want him back - the south, most of Bangkok and large ares of midNorth Thailand prove your point wrong.

[ianbaggie]

I was unaware the nation was having a plebiscite on the subject of an amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. I didn't know the question was on the ballot. Mr. Abhisit undermined his argument when he said that Mr Thaksin was not there to hear the charges, so the amnesty was irelevant. If there cannot be an amnesty it is a non-issue. Why raise the issue then if it is an "impossibility"?

As I understand it, Mr. Thaksin was judged guilty on some charges. Hence, the amnesty is indeed possible. On the other charges being bandied about, they can be withdrawn. Whether Mr. Abhisit likes it or not, the charges will eventually be vacated and anything else pending will be dropped. It's going to happen, no matter how many TVF members pout and stomp their feet.

GREAT IDEA - lets whitewash every crime for every criminal and put them all in charge of a country shall we?? Your posts indicate that your unaware of most things - maybe you should move on before you go from geriatric to senile!! Stick with Mumford and sons and good luck with the crystal ball - hope the family business carries on making pennies when Thaksin comes back and steals the remaining funds in the country!!! Oh by the way the first part of your post was even worse - Abhisit didnt raise the point - the Pheu Thai did by suggesting amnesty in the first place. By the way your grammar is incorrect on both the first and second paragraph.

[473geo]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

Personally I think hes asking the Thai people if they need a wanted criminal whos convicted on three counts to run the country on the promise of a few handouts

Why ask?.................unless of course the current government fears they have done such a poor job people might actually vote for such a person!!!

[kerryk]

Bringing back Thaksin will ensure a very unstable country well into the future.

There may well be many people who want him back, but likewise there are many who don't which is the recipe for a lot of ongoing problems.

There may also be people who like to see governments and constitutions formed by elected officials rather than military coups.

..............Good point Kerry - but you forgot to add "even if those elected Governments ARE full of convicted criminals - much as the Nazi government of Germany was..........." That bit is very relevant - its what STOPS the PTP from EVER being democratic - even if they win.

Oh, I agree with you. But some people might say the first step in a democracy is bowing to the will of the people even if you don't agree with it. But I agreed with Socrates too so what do I know.

[JurgenG]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

The government has no plan.

Put it simple, the Thais society is divided in two. A minority who do nothing, call themselves the elite. And the rural poor who are in charge to feed the "elite".

Then, as this can't obviously work, you have a third party, generation of chinese immigrants who do all the administration work.

The plan of the democrats is : no change !

So basically lets focus on Thaksin so nobody will realize we have absolutely no plan.

You have a very child like perception of Thailand - there are HUGE numbers of rural folk against thaksin and there are many middle class people who do not want him back - the south, most of Bangkok and large ares of midNorth Thailand prove your point wrong.

I fully respect everybody's opinion.

But honestly, what is the relation between my post and your answer ?

[animatic]

I was unaware the nation was having a plebiscite on the subject of an amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. I didn't know the question was on the ballot. Mr. Abhisit undermined his argument when he said that Mr Thaksin was not there to hear the charges, so the amnesty was irelevant. If there cannot be an amnesty it is a non-issue. Why raise the issue then if it is an "impossibility"? Very doubtful, little has really changed.

As I understand it, Mr. Thaksin was judged guilty on some charges. Hence, the amnesty is indeed possible. On the other charges being bandied about, they can be withdrawn. Whether Mr. Abhisit likes it or not, the charges will eventually be vacated and anything else pending will be dropped. It's going to happen, no matter how many TVF members pout and stomp their feet.

Well that didn't happen the last time he had bought a minority government to power PPP.

As is obvious he couldn't stop the charges then, and could not face them and went overseas, and started to make trouble way beyond his value should he ever be a leader again. So why has anything changed. Will this NEW election he buys suddenly be able to do the game changer he couldn't last time?

Stupidity is doing the same thing you couldn't do before, yet again at great cost, not believing it can't be done. And that is hubris.

Edited June 12, 2011 by animatic

[metisdead]

Off topic and nonsense posts have been removed. Please stay on topic.

[caribbeanman]

Should not the government already have the focus and attention of the people by the deliverance of policies and actions aligned to solving the problems of the country?.......is the government now looking to sway the voters by virtue of intention......

The government has no plan.

Put it simple, the Thais society is divided in two. A minority who do nothing, call themselves the elite. And the rural poor who are in charge to feed the "elite".

Then, as this can't obviously work, you have a third party, generation of chinese immigrants who do all the administration work.

The plan of the democrats is : no change !

So basically lets focus on Thaksin so nobody will realize we have absolutely no plan.

dam_n right

[geriatrickid]

I was unaware the nation was having a plebiscite on the subject of an amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. I didn't know the question was on the ballot. Mr. Abhisit undermined his argument when he said that Mr Thaksin was not there to hear the charges, so the amnesty was irelevant. If there cannot be an amnesty it is a non-issue. Why raise the issue then if it is an "impossibility"?

As I understand it, Mr. Thaksin was judged guilty on some charges. Hence, the amnesty is indeed possible. On the other charges being bandied about, they can be withdrawn. Whether Mr. Abhisit likes it or not, the charges will eventually be vacated and anything else pending will be dropped. It's going to happen, no matter how many TVF members pout and stomp their feet.

GREAT IDEA - lets whitewash every crime for every criminal and put them all in charge of a country shall we?? Your posts indicate that your unaware of most things - maybe you should move on before you go from geriatric to senile!! Stick with Mumford and sons and good luck with the crystal ball - hope the family business carries on making pennies when Thaksin comes back and steals the remaining funds in the country!!! Oh by the way the first part of your post was even worse - Abhisit didnt raise the point - the Pheu Thai did by suggesting amnesty in the first place. By the way your grammar is incorrect on both the first and second paragraph.

It is you that is putting forward the "whitewash" concept. You state that "my posts indicate that I am unaware of most things", and then you go on to state that

"Abhisit didnt raise the point - the Pheu Thai did by suggesting amnesty in the first place". It is you that is unaware, as my comments were directed at the statement of Mr. Abhisit. He is quoted as as stating that "Election Day, 3 July 2011, will be the day for Thai people to decide whether they would like to grant amnesty to former Prime Minister, Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra, or not." Please read the article.

My grammar is quite appropriate, thank you. For a self proclaimed university professor, I am surprised that you are unable to criticize my comments without attacking me. Not a very academic approach, at least that's not how we do it in the sciences.

[geriatrickid]

I was unaware the nation was having a plebiscite on the subject of an amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. I didn't know the question was on the ballot. Mr. Abhisit undermined his argument when he said that Mr Thaksin was not there to hear the charges, so the amnesty was irelevant. If there cannot be an amnesty it is a non-issue. Why raise the issue then if it is an "impossibility"? Very doubtful, little has really changed.

As I understand it, Mr. Thaksin was judged guilty on some charges. Hence, the amnesty is indeed possible. On the other charges being bandied about, they can be withdrawn. Whether Mr. Abhisit likes it or not, the charges will eventually be vacated and anything else pending will be dropped. It's going to happen, no matter how many TVF members pout and stomp their feet.

Well that didn't happen the last time he had bought a minority government to power PPP.

As is obvious he couldn't stop the charges then, and could not face them and went overseas, and started to make trouble way beyond his value should he ever be a leader again. So why has anything changed. Will this NEW election he buys suddenly be able to do the game changer he couldn't last time?

Stupidity is doing the same thing you couldn't do before, yet again at great cost, not believing it can't be done. And that is hubris.

I draw your attention to the line I have highlighted in red that appears in your response. Please note that this was not in my original post. It has been added. I would appreciate if you did not alter my post in that manner. Thank you.

[Ricardo]

The government has no plan.

Put it simple, the Thais society is divided in two. A minority who do nothing, call themselves the elite. And the rural poor who are in charge to feed the "elite".

Then, as this can't obviously work, you have a third party, generation of chinese immigrants who do all the administration work.

The plan of the democrats is : no change !

So basically lets focus on Thaksin so nobody will realize we have absolutely no plan.

"The government has no plan."

True only in the sense, that there is no-longer any government, only a set of caretakers, led by a caretaker-PM.

But the Democrats, like PTP and every other party, newly-formed or in-opposition or formerly part of the former coalition-government, have all spent the past few weeks campaigning on their plans for the future. All of those plans involve change, progressive or retrograde, depending upon one's POV. So it's equally mistaken to suggest that "The plan of the democrats is : no change".

[samurai]

Poll: People are put off by political blame game

...

As for the things people would not like to hear from the MPs during their political campaign, 38 percent said they would not want to hear candidates blaming one another. 35 percent said they wanted no lies or words without proof. 16 percent said they rejected those praising themselves, and 11 percent said they would not like to hear about past events that were irrelevant.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255406120005

[whybother]

Poll: People are put off by political blame game

...

As for the things people would not like to hear from the MPs during their political campaign, 38 percent said they would not want to hear candidates blaming one another. 35 percent said they wanted no lies or words without proof. 16 percent said they rejected those praising themselves, and 11 percent said they would not like to hear about past events that were irrelevant.

http://thainews.prd....id=255406120005

More importantly:

The survey results show that 31 percent of the people want to hear the candidates' policies on how to improve the country and make the people happy. 28 percent said they would like to hear policies about improving communities and how the MPs could take care of the economy. 25 percent said they would like to hear how the MPs would take about the nation’s problem, such as education, well being of the country and especially the unrest in the South, whereas 15 percent wanted to hear what would be the first thing for the MPs to do if they were elected.

[lannarebirth]

It seems people want to hear answers on a large number of topics. I know a westerner would be thinking a debate might be a good idea, but what is it about Thais that doesn't make them reach the same conclusion?