Thai PM Abhisit 'Very Optimistic' About Winning Election

[Briggsy]

I constantly hear Abhisit described as "Oxford educated", what has this got to do with the price of eggs? Pun intended

Most of my friends and relatives are Oxford educated, they still have their fair share of idiots.

I'm not saying Abhisit is an idiot, but being Oxford educated does not make him a genius either.

Massive prestige boost for person described. Thailand is all about prestige, it is extremely important. Thus if the PM can be described as "Oxford-educated" then by extension there is a massive prestige boost for the nation. Reputation is everything. Without reputation in this country, people will not co-operate with you and you cannot achieve what you hoped to.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Abhisit is unlikely to be saying "we have no chance" is he?

Although it certainly looks like that government democratically elected by the people will not include his party,at least until the military and elites decide who they actually want in power.

A PT win brings on a likely coup scenario to go with the other 17 over the past 80 years. Interesting times ahead indeed.

Don't bet against it being the Democrats + others again, my friend!!!

[ianbaggie]

Sadly I feel it unlikely that Abhisit will return to his position. This would be a sad day for Thailand as a whole.

The, so called, plan by the PTP or even a suggestion that this party will instigate a law that will absolve previous politicians of their misdoings should, by all rights, scare the living crap out of the people. Should such a law be passed then there is simply no hope for Thailand, ever.

Could someone explain to me why any amnesty now is so bad, but the amnesty for the Generals and other parties who started a coup is fine?

In many countries taking power by gun is considered bad form and will get you a long stretch in prison.

In Thailand one of the coup members was appointed by the current government to be commander of chief of the army

Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act - if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!

[tragickingdom]

Abhisit's party is well aware how the courts or army can decide the outcome. Silpa Archa made it clear a few days ago, they were forced to form a government with Abhisit and did nt receive any respect from the DP and the military. Still abhisit is far behind in the polls, too far to make it credible to cheat. Thailand is in need of an another government. Hundreds of politically motivated arrests have been taken place, press freedom is non existent anymore since 2006 and The threat to stability is the army. His Oxford education might get in handy when Mark Abhisit joins the best neighborhood he ever lived in. A wing in a the Hague prison with lots of former Prime ministers, presidents and army leaders.

[animatic]

Sadly I feel it unlikely that Abhisit will return to his position. This would be a sad day for Thailand as a whole.

The, so called, plan by the PTP or even a suggestion that this party will instigate a law that will absolve previous politicians of their misdoings should, by all rights, scare the living crap out of the people. Should such a law be passed then there is simply no hope for Thailand, ever.

Could someone explain to me why any amnesty now is so bad, but the amnesty for the Generals and other parties who started a coup is fine?

In many countries taking power by gun is considered bad form and will get you a long stretch in prison.

In Thailand one of the coup members was appointed by the current government to be commander of chief of the army

surely that appointment speaks for itself...........

Or did he simply rise through seniority and take the job as he was the next in line?

[whybother]

Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act - if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!

It's not a criminal act if you're successful ... retrospectively. I doubt that the stagers of an unsuccessful coup would get much leniency.

[animatic]

I constantly hear Abhisit described as "Oxford educated", what has this got to do with the price of eggs? Pun intended

Most of my friends and relatives are Oxford educated, they still have their fair share of idiots.

I'm not saying Abhisit is an idiot, but being Oxford educated does not make him a genius either.

Massive prestige boost for person described. Thailand is all about prestige, it is extremely important. Thus if the PM can be described as "Oxford-educated" then by extension there is a massive prestige boost for the nation. Reputation is everything. Without reputation in this country, people will not co-operate with you and you cannot achieve what you hoped to.

Sure a rich idiot in UK can skid through Oxford if the family has enough cash. t as easily as the average Thai through Ramkamhaeng or Mahidol of course.

But Oxford being #17 ranked university world wide is not chopped liver.

Yingluck on the other hand is from the 6,473rd ranked school world wide.... you DID notice she is not bragging about Kentucky State U.

A barely passing grade at Oxford is likely still more valuable than an honors from KSU. And Abhisit did graduate up in his class.

Add to that some people have aptitude for school work and no aptitude for life and others have both. Some are terrible in school but very successful.

Edited June 14, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act - if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!

It's not a criminal act if you're successful ... retrospectively. I doubt that the stagers of an unsuccessful coup would get much leniency.

It also very much depends on who is being cut off at the top,

why there was a need for the coup, as well as it's success.

Bringing down an evil head of state who is bleeding the country dry for his cliques benefits and rules with a deadly iron hand until deposed, isn't necessarily an evil act. Illegal in the despots eyes, but not necessarily for the average citizen.

Mobutu Seseseko comes to mind, and who would argue if Mugabe was brought down for his rigged elections and reign of terror on his own people.

I also think back to Yeltzin on that tank

and the world cheering as the Soviets fell, via a coup.

or

in 1989 - The reign of Romanian president Nicolae Ceausescu was ended with an uprising

Surprisingly enough the Thai coup makers here, successful and unsuccessful, have typically been treated with much leniency, with a very few exceptions. And THAT message has been passed on for generations....

Edited June 14, 2011 by animatic

[hanuman1]

Sadly I feel it unlikely that Abhisit will return to his position. This would be a sad day for Thailand as a whole.

The, so called, plan by the PTP or even a suggestion that this party will instigate a law that will absolve previous politicians of their misdoings should, by all rights, scare the living crap out of the people. Should such a law be passed then there is simply no hope for Thailand, ever.

Could someone explain to me why any amnesty now is so bad, but the amnesty for the Generals and other parties who started a coup is fine?

In many countries taking power by gun is considered bad form and will get you a long stretch in prison.

In Thailand one of the coup members was appointed by the current government to be commander of chief of the army

Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act - if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!

"Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act" - Wha? I can't help thinking this is utter nonsense.

"if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!"

What you describe here is the very message that has been sent to Thai people on a continual basis for the last xxx years.

Do you seriously think that Thai people think MPs always stick to the rules? And that now because of the PTP actions, they will suddenly realize that shock, horror, some MP's are selfish egoists?

You might think red shirts are idiots but now you're tarring the entire population with the idiot brush. Credit them with some intelligence, please!

[Robby nz]

If PT do manage to form a Govt then I suspect the Thai people will not get what they expect but they will certainly get what the deserve.

What I cant understand is how people can forget or forgive, or both, what the reds who are now firmly on the list of PT candidates did to this country, what they cost by their actions both in blood and cash.

But we wait to see,

PT are certainly saturating the country with their posters, hope they dont overspend, be a shame to see them banned.

[jayboy]

Sure a rich idiot in UK can skid through Oxford if the family has enough cash. t as easily as the average Thai through Ramkamhaeng or Mahidol of course.

This is a view quite commonly held but nevertheless erroneous.It is not possible to buy one's way into Oxford or Cambridge, nor are rich students given preference.In fact most Oxbridge colleges have a positive discrimination policy in operation favouring state educated and economically disadvantaged applicants.The common misunderstanding is that Oxbridge wants to attract the posh and privileged.Totally wrong:it wants to attract the sharpest minds from all backgrounds.

Having said that I don't disagree with the main thrust of your post.

[jayboy]

I also think back to Yeltzin on that tank

and the world cheering as the Soviets fell, via a coup.

or

in 1989 - The reign of Romanian president Nicolae Ceausescu was ended with an uprising

Surprisingly enough the Thai coup makers here, successful and unsuccessful, have typically been treated with much leniency, with a very few exceptions. And THAT message has been passed on for generations....

Schoolboy howler here.It was Yeltsin who faced up to the attempted coup makers (old style communists), not the other way round.

Ceauescu's fate should be a warning to some in the old elite.

The fate of coupmakers in Thailand depends whether they are backed by the old elite or not.In the case of the last coup, orchestrated and planned (allegedly my lawyers instruct me to say) by persons of influence, the criminals involved were allowed to pardon themselves.In the case of an attempt not backed by the amart (eg General (not very) Chalard in the mid 1970's) they faced the firing squad.

[animatic]

Sure a rich idiot in UK can skid through Oxford if the family has enough cash. Not as easily as the average Thai through Ramkamhaeng or Mahidol of course.

This is a view quite commonly held but nevertheless erroneous.It is not possible to buy one's way into Oxford or Cambridge, nor are rich students given preference.In fact most Oxbridge colleges have a positive discrimination policy in operation favouring state educated and economically disadvantaged applicants.The common misunderstanding is that Oxbridge wants to attract the posh and privileged.Totally wrong:it wants to attract the sharpest minds from all backgrounds.

Having said that I don't disagree with the main thrust of your post.

I didn't say Buy His Way Through did I?

There are ways and there are ways,

most cost money, like serious tutoring at exam time,

but don't involve bribing the teachers or dean.

Endowments of huge amounts sometimes... Like a new school for a subject

do help turn a D into a C, or 'encourage' the professor 'putting in extra time to help a student'...

And most certainly Oxford flunks out students every year for non-performance.

Again not as easily to skid through compared to 'can't let the family lose face' Thailand.

Let's consider young Oak at Oxford, for instance... well, let's not waste of time.

[animatic]

I also think back to Yeltzin on that tank

and the world cheering as the Soviets fell, via a coup.

or

in 1989 - The reign of Romanian president Nicolae Ceausescu was ended with an uprising

Surprisingly enough the Thai coup makers here, successful and unsuccessful, have typically been treated with much leniency, with a very few exceptions. And THAT message has been passed on for generations....

Schoolboy howler here.It was Yeltsin who faced up to the attempted coup makers (old style communists), not the other way round.

Ceauescu's fate should be a warning to some in the old elite.

The fate of coupmakers in Thailand depends whether they are backed by the old elite or not.In the case of the last coup, orchestrated and planned (allegedly my lawyers instruct me to say) by persons of influence, the criminals involved were allowed to pardon themselves.In the case of an attempt not backed by the amart (eg General (not very) Chalard in the mid 1970's) they faced the firing squad.

Yes, I know it was a counter-coup with Yeltsin.

But the coup started the ball rolling, and made the Soviets fall, and everyone cheered.

As to Chalard etc, yes there were exceptions certainly.

[jayboy]

I didn't say Buy His Way Through did I?

There are ways and there are ways,

most cost money, like serious tutoring at exam time,

but don't involve bribing the teachers or dean.

Endowments of huge amounts sometimes... Like a new school for a subject

do help turn a D into a C, or 'encourage' the professor 'putting in extra time to help a student'...

And most certainly Oxford flunks out students every year for non-performance.

Again not as easily to skid through compared to 'can't let the family lose face' Thailand.

Let's consider young Oak at Oxford, for instance... well, let's not waste of time.

1.Oxford flunks out one of the lowest proportions in the world because entry standards are so stiff.In essence if you get in and don't freak out, you will graduate.

2.Daddy's endowments make no difference to entry or pass grades.It's Oxford not a crappy third rate place

3.College tutors provide intensive support, and don't need to be bribed.

[samurai]

Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act - if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!

It's not a criminal act if you're successful ... retrospectively. I doubt that the stagers of an unsuccessful coup would get much leniency.

It also very much depends on who is being cut off at the top,

why there was a need for the coup, as well as it's success.

Bringing down an evil head of state who is bleeding the country dry for his cliques benefits and rules with a deadly iron hand until deposed, isn't necessarily an evil act. Illegal in the despots eyes, but not necessarily for the average citizen.

Mobutu Seseseko comes to mind, and who would argue if Mugabe was brought down for his rigged elections and reign of terror on his own people.

I also think back to Yeltzin on that tank

and the world cheering as the Soviets fell, via a coup.

or

in 1989 - The reign of Romanian president Nicolae Ceausescu was ended with an uprising

Surprisingly enough the Thai coup makers here, successful and unsuccessful, have typically been treated with much leniency, with a very few exceptions. And THAT message has been passed on for generations....

That Yeltzin on that tank, it was a anti-coup moment. The old soviets tried to stage a comeback with a putsch, but they failed.

[jayboy]

Yes, I know it was a counter-coup with Yeltsin.

But the coup started the ball rolling, and made the Soviets fall, and everyone cheered.

Huh?

Following this analogy in Thailand the military goons who launched the 2006 coup set the ball rolling for the rise of popular democracy under the PTP banner.Probably not what you meant.Best to admit a silly mistake, and move on.

[samurai]

Yes, I know it was a counter-coup with Yeltsin.

But the coup started the ball rolling, and made the Soviets fall, and everyone cheered.

Huh?

Following this analogy in Thailand the military goons who launched the 2006 coup set the ball rolling for the rise of popular democracy under the PTP banner.Probably not what you meant.Best to admit a silly mistake, and move on.

His other analogies including Ceausescu, Mobutu or Mugabe to defend the coup in Thailand are silly too.

[jdinasia]

Abhisit is unlikely to be saying "we have no chance" is he?

Although it certainly looks like that government democratically elected by the people will not include his party,at least until the military and elites decide who they actually want in power.

A PT win brings on a likely coup scenario to go with the other 17 over the past 80 years. Interesting times ahead indeed.

Hmmm a PPP coalition didn't bring on a coup in 2007 ----- but hey ....

So far it looks as if a coalition government will be what happens next. It is anyone's guess who will lead that coalition.

[ianbaggie]

Abhisit's party is well aware how the courts or army can decide the outcome. Silpa Archa made it clear a few days ago, they were forced to form a government with Abhisit and did nt receive any respect from the DP and the military. Still abhisit is far behind in the polls, too far to make it credible to cheat. Thailand is in need of an another government. Hundreds of politically motivated arrests have been taken place, press freedom is non existent anymore since 2006 and The threat to stability is the army. His Oxford education might get in handy when Mark Abhisit joins the best neighborhood he ever lived in. A wing in a the Hague prison with lots of former Prime ministers, presidents and army leaders.

What a strange view - baseless and factless!! The army is NOT aligned alongside the Democrats - there have been 2 elections in the house since the coup. Abhisit is 3 points behind according to the last official poll carried out last week - ill provide a link if you want me to search it out. Hun dreds of politically motivated arrests - you mean on the red shirts last year - do you think they should go unpunished really?? The press is freer than at any time Thaksin was in power and would sue opponents at the drop of a hat!! The stabilising force is the army - if it wasnt Rachaprasong would still be occupied by people washing their clothes in the street and firing grenades at shoppers. if he does go to the Hague prison lets hop his room is right next to another former criminal ex prime minister who is the real destabilising force along with his stolen billions.

[whybother]

... there have been 2 elections in the house since the coup. ...

I must have missed the news about the second one.

[geriatrickid]

Viewing Thai politics through international media every time Abhisit speaks he comes across as reasonable, sensible, articulate and honest (ok so it's an election and everyone is going tp talk up their chances), every time you here Thaksin speak he comes across as sniveling, victimized, flippant or confrontational. Setting aside the character assassinations that both men have had tp weather, there can be no doubt who the better man is, even if the votes recognize who the better politician is!

Yes, PM Abhisit is personable and well spoken to those of us that speak english. However, to the ears of a non English language speaker it means nothing. Yes, he speaks Thai in a polite manner, but it doesn't matter to the listener earning a subsistence wage. What were Mr. Abhisit's achievements prior to entering political life? Aside from the family connections and the old boys networking, what did he really do? Think about it. Was he a captain of industry? Did he distinguish himself by building a company? Was he active in the improvement of Thais lives as a civil rights campaigner, or an advocate of the poor? No. He came from a life of perks and didn't distinguish himself as an individual.

Mr. Thaksin can be called a snivelling thief or an evil person, but the fact is that he was smart enough to go from being an outsider to an insider and to build a fortune in the same way that many of thailand's elite hisos acquired their fortunes. Whatever, Thaksin's faults are ,he has experience as a self made man, a man that built a business empire and a man that went from humble beginnings to the PM's office. He did it on his own. He also fell from power because of his misjudgements. I think he's learnt from his past mistakes and I also think he's tougher than PM Abhisit. I doubt Mr. Abhisit could have stood up to the pounding Mr. Thaksin's taken.I doubt any of the people that take their daily potshots at Thaksin could ever attain a smidgin of his success or could take on all the folks trying to get him.

The fact that Thaksin has survived this long and has had the ability to take his opponents on, despite the odds being against him speaks to his strength and yes, even to his intelligence. He's a fighter, a tough guy that isn't afraid to show his emotional side sometimes. I offer that a great many Thais can see those qualities and gravitate to a guy that they can identify with, a man that might be a wealthy elitist in private, but one who can be seen as a man of the people, a man that is perceived to have the interest of the poor at heart. He might be full of BS, but he does a better job at conveying concern and empathy than Mr. Abhisit. That doesn't mean Mr. Abhisit isn't a decent man or that he is a bad guy. It's just about perceptions.

[ianbaggie]

Sadly I feel it unlikely that Abhisit will return to his position. This would be a sad day for Thailand as a whole.

The, so called, plan by the PTP or even a suggestion that this party will instigate a law that will absolve previous politicians of their misdoings should, by all rights, scare the living crap out of the people. Should such a law be passed then there is simply no hope for Thailand, ever.

Could someone explain to me why any amnesty now is so bad, but the amnesty for the Generals and other parties who started a coup is fine?

In many countries taking power by gun is considered bad form and will get you a long stretch in prison.

In Thailand one of the coup members was appointed by the current government to be commander of chief of the army

Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act - if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!

"Staging a coup is NOT a criminal act" - Wha? I can't help thinking this is utter nonsense.

"if Thailand does what PTP is suggesting and provides amnesty for red shirt TLT criminals and fugitves - it will send a message to the Thai people that you can do whatever you like and get away with it!!"

What you describe here is the very message that has been sent to Thai people on a continual basis for the last xxx years.

Do you seriously think that Thai people think MPs always stick to the rules? And that now because of the PTP actions, they will suddenly realize that shock, horror, some MP's are selfish egoists?

You might think red shirts are idiots but now you're tarring the entire population with the idiot brush. Credit them with some intelligence, please!

You can THINK all you like BUT - could you provide me with a link to a law stating that staging a coup IS illegal? Id love you to prove me wrong!! By the way a Thai lawyer friend of mine agrees with me that its NOT against Thai law to stage a military coup - as for the rest of your nonsense I cannot see how anyone with an ounce of grey matter could seriously argue with the fact thatt whitwashing the crimes of convicted billionaire criminals in order for them to regain power - is morally, legally or criminally right - now there is a law against that!! Not just in Thailand but in most countries. Finally, Im married to a Thai I have a half Thai son and more Thai friends than Western ones. I CERTAINLY do not think ALL Thais are idiots only bitter twisted TV posters would draw such a conclusion. However, Thai people need to have GOOD role models like the rest of us - and former prime minister criminals who hand out 500 baht to steal 73 billion are NOT good role models. Have a think on!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Viewing Thai politics through international media every time Abhisit speaks he comes across as reasonable, sensible, articulate and honest (ok so it's an election and everyone is going tp talk up their chances), every time you here Thaksin speak he comes across as sniveling, victimized, flippant or confrontational. Setting aside the character assassinations that both men have had tp weather, there can be no doubt who the better man is, even if the votes recognize who the better politician is!

And... who is the better man then? you dint make that clear!

I think Abhisit is the better man and the better politician, but Rural Thais don't use either criteria when they vote!

Thats why we should all be worried!!!

[whybother]

<snip>

Mr. Thaksin can be called a snivelling thief or an evil person, but the fact is that he was smart enough to go from being an outsider to an insider and to build a fortune in the same way that many of thailand's elite hisos acquired their fortunes. Whatever, Thaksin's faults are ,he has experience as a self made man, a man that built a business empire and a man that went from humble beginnings to the PM's office. He did it on his own. He also fell from power because of his misjudgements. I think he's learnt from his past mistakes and I also think he's tougher than PM Abhisit. I doubt Mr. Abhisit could have stood up to the pounding Mr. Thaksin's taken.I doubt any of the people that take their daily potshots at Thaksin could ever attain a smidgin of his success or could take on all the folks trying to get him.

The fact that Thaksin has survived this long and has had the ability to take his opponents on, despite the odds being against him speaks to his strength and yes, even to his intelligence. He's a fighter, a tough guy that isn't afraid to show his emotional side sometimes. I offer that a great many Thais can see those qualities and gravitate to a guy that they can identify with, a man that might be a wealthy elitist in private, but one who can be seen as a man of the people, a man that is perceived to have the interest of the poor at heart. He might be full of BS, but he does a better job at conveying concern and empathy than Mr. Abhisit. That doesn't mean Mr. Abhisit isn't a decent man or that he is a bad guy. It's just about perceptions.

"smart enough"??? You do mean "corrupt enough" don't you?

http://en.wikipedia....#Early_ventures

Thaksin and his wife began several businesses while he was still in the police, including a silk shop, a movie theater, and an apartment building. All were failures and left him over 50 million baht in debt. In 1982 he established ICSI; using his police contacts, he leased computers to government agencies with modest success. However, later ventures in security systems (SOS) and public bus radio services (Bus Sound) all failed. In April 1986, he founded Advanced Info Service (AIS), which started off as a computer rental business.

In 1987 Thaksin resigned from the police. He then marketed a romance drama called "Baan Sai Thong", which became a popular success in theaters. In 1988 he joined Pacific Telesis to operate and market the PacLink pager service, a modest success, though Thaksin later sold his shares to establish his own paging company. In 1989 he launched IBC, a cable television company. At that time, Thaksin had a very good relationship with Chalerm Yoobumrung the Minister of the Prime Minister Office who was in charge of Thai press and media. It is a question that remains unanswered whether Chalerm granted the right to Thaksin to establish IBC just to benefit his close friend, seeing that this project had been denied by the previous administration but instantly accepted a very short period after Chalerm came to office. However, it turned out to lose money and he eventually merged this company with the CP Group's UTV. In 1989, Thaksin established a data networking service, Shinawatra DataCom, today known as Advanced Data Network and owned by AIS and the TOT. Many of Thaksin's businesses were later consolidated as Shin Corp.

Advance Info Service was given a monopoly contract by his contacts in the military in 1986 and operates under GSM 900 frequency. AIS grew rapidly and became the largest mobile phone operator in Thailand.

"failed", "police contacts", "failed", "relationship", "benefit his close friend", "lose money" "monopoly contract", "contacts in the military"

A common theme there.

Edited June 14, 2011 by whybother

[lanna2011]

Viewing Thai politics through international media every time Abhisit speaks he comes across as reasonable, sensible, articulate and honest (ok so it's an election and everyone is going tp talk up their chances), every time you here Thaksin speak he comes across as sniveling, victimized, flippant or confrontational. Setting aside the character assassinations that both men have had tp weather, there can be no doubt who the better man is, even if the votes recognize who the better politician is!

Yes, PM Abhisit is personable and well spoken to those of us that speak english. However, to the ears of a non English language speaker it means nothing. Yes, he speaks Thai in a polite manner, but it doesn't matter to the listener earning a subsistence wage. What were Mr. Abhisit's achievements prior to entering political life? Aside from the family connections and the old boys networking, what did he really do? Think about it. Was he a captain of industry? Did he distinguish himself by building a company? Was he active in the improvement of Thais lives as a civil rights campaigner, or an advocate of the poor? No. He came from a life of perks and didn't distinguish himself as an individual.

Mr. Thaksin can be called a snivelling thief or an evil person, but the fact is that he was smart enough to go from being an outsider to an insider and to build a fortune in the same way that many of thailand's elite hisos acquired their fortunes. Whatever, Thaksin's faults are ,he has experience as a self made man, a man that built a business empire and a man that went from humble beginnings to the PM's office. He did it on his own. He also fell from power because of his misjudgements. I think he's learnt from his past mistakes and I also think he's tougher than PM Abhisit. I doubt Mr. Abhisit could have stood up to the pounding Mr. Thaksin's taken.I doubt any of the people that take their daily potshots at Thaksin could ever attain a smidgin of his success or could take on all the folks trying to get him.

The fact that Thaksin has survived this long and has had the ability to take his opponents on, despite the odds being against him speaks to his strength and yes, even to his intelligence. He's a fighter, a tough guy that isn't afraid to show his emotional side sometimes. I offer that a great many Thais can see those qualities and gravitate to a guy that they can identify with, a man that might be a wealthy elitist in private, but one who can be seen as a man of the people, a man that is perceived to have the interest of the poor at heart. He might be full of BS, but he does a better job at conveying concern and empathy than Mr. Abhisit. That doesn't mean Mr. Abhisit isn't a decent man or that he is a bad guy. It's just about perceptions.

good post - ditch Suthept and Dems might fare better - but PT will win the largest amount of votes for a single party I think - it's then down to the dirty horsetrading

[anterian]

Sure a rich idiot in UK can skid through Oxford if the family has enough cash. Not as easily as the average Thai through Ramkamhaeng or Mahidol of course.

This is a view quite commonly held but nevertheless erroneous.It is not possible to buy one's way into Oxford or Cambridge, nor are rich students given preference.In fact most Oxbridge colleges have a positive discrimination policy in operation favouring state educated and economically disadvantaged applicants.The common misunderstanding is that Oxbridge wants to attract the posh and privileged.Totally wrong:it wants to attract the sharpest minds from all backgrounds.

Having said that I don't disagree with the main thrust of your post.

I didn't say Buy His Way Through did I?

There are ways and there are ways,

most cost money, like serious tutoring at exam time,

but don't involve bribing the teachers or dean.

Endowments of huge amounts sometimes... Like a new school for a subject

do help turn a D into a C, or 'encourage' the professor 'putting in extra time to help a student'...

And most certainly Oxford flunks out students every year for non-performance.

Again not as easily to skid through compared to 'can't let the family lose face' Thailand.

Let's consider young Oak at Oxford, for instance... well, let's not waste of time.

There is a long established old boys network in the UK, it is unseen but very powerful. If you go to an old established Public School (in the English sense), as I did and also Abhisit, progress to Oxbridge it taken for granted. In the days of National military service, it was also automatic admission to Officer training and a commission. Public schools are geared towards Oxbridge in terms of their curriculum, whereas entrants from State schools are in need of supportive extra tuition to survive. Public school entrants usually do well because from the age of 12 they have been part of the university system and ethos. At university with the right money you can join relevant clubs and societies, have closer relationships with tutors and lecturers. Sure it is possible to flunk out of Oxbridge as a Public School entrant, but you have to work quite hard at it.

I am talking from personal experience, both of myself and my children, also as a teacher of pupils who went to Oxbridge and as a University lecturer at Imperial. Incidentally, at Imperial College there was a "no fail" policy for fee paying overseas students.

[hellodolly]

Viewing Thai politics through international media every time Abhisit speaks he comes across as reasonable, sensible, articulate and honest (ok so it's an election and everyone is going tp talk up their chances), every time you here Thaksin speak he comes across as sniveling, victimized, flippant or confrontational. Setting aside the character assassinations that both men have had tp weather, there can be no doubt who the better man is, even if the votes recognize who the better politician is!

Yes, PM Abhisit is personable and well spoken to those of us that speak english. However, to the ears of a non English language speaker it means nothing. Yes, he speaks Thai in a polite manner, but it doesn't matter to the listener earning a subsistence wage. What were Mr. Abhisit's achievements prior to entering political life? Aside from the family connections and the old boys networking, what did he really do? Think about it. Was he a captain of industry? Did he distinguish himself by building a company? Was he active in the improvement of Thais lives as a civil rights campaigner, or an advocate of the poor? No. He came from a life of perks and didn't distinguish himself as an individual.

Mr. Thaksin can be called a snivelling thief or an evil person, but the fact is that he was smart enough to go from being an outsider to an insider and to build a fortune in the same way that many of thailand's elite hisos acquired their fortunes. Whatever, Thaksin's faults are ,he has experience as a self made man, a man that built a business empire and a man that went from humble beginnings to the PM's office. He did it on his own. He also fell from power because of his misjudgements. I think he's learnt from his past mistakes and I also think he's tougher than PM Abhisit. I doubt Mr. Abhisit could have stood up to the pounding Mr. Thaksin's taken.I doubt any of the people that take their daily potshots at Thaksin could ever attain a smidgin of his success or could take on all the folks trying to get him.

The fact that Thaksin has survived this long and has had the ability to take his opponents on, despite the odds being against him speaks to his strength and yes, even to his intelligence. He's a fighter, a tough guy that isn't afraid to show his emotional side sometimes. I offer that a great many Thais can see those qualities and gravitate to a guy that they can identify with, a man that might be a wealthy elitist in private, but one who can be seen as a man of the people, a man that is perceived to have the interest of the poor at heart. He might be full of BS, but he does a better job at conveying concern and empathy than Mr. Abhisit. That doesn't mean Mr. Abhisit isn't a decent man or that he is a bad guy. It's just about perceptions.

Not sure if I understand why a person has to have a list of credentials in stealing bribing and back stabbing to be a good PM. Yes Abhist has not demonstrated to us that he is good at those things. In my book that makes him a good man for the job.

For the rest of your article you had many good points they are not however mandatory to be a good PM. As I said you had a lot of good points. But the big question is who the he--l are you talking about..

Please give us a name and not the one of some one convicted of corruption and facing other charges if he decides to live in Thailand. And please give us the name of some one who has not concisely applied for and received citizenship in another country.

You use the same logic as the red shirts. Pick a person you want and put up a smoke screen so no one can see the real person.

Out of curiosity how many kilo's of rice will perception put on a poor Thai's plate?

[anterian]

Viewing Thai politics through international media every time Abhisit speaks he comes across as reasonable, sensible, articulate and honest (ok so it's an election and everyone is going tp talk up their chances), every time you here Thaksin speak he comes across as sniveling, victimized, flippant or confrontational. Setting aside the character assassinations that both men have had tp weather, there can be no doubt who the better man is, even if the votes recognize who the better politician is!

Yes, PM Abhisit is personable and well spoken to those of us that speak english. However, to the ears of a non English language speaker it means nothing. Yes, he speaks Thai in a polite manner, but it doesn't matter to the listener earning a subsistence wage. What were Mr. Abhisit's achievements prior to entering political life? Aside from the family connections and the old boys networking, what did he really do? Think about it. Was he a captain of industry? Did he distinguish himself by building a company? Was he active in the improvement of Thais lives as a civil rights campaigner, or an advocate of the poor? No. He came from a life of perks and didn't distinguish himself as an individual.

Mr. Thaksin can be called a snivelling thief or an evil person, but the fact is that he was smart enough to go from being an outsider to an insider and to build a fortune in the same way that many of thailand's elite hisos acquired their fortunes. Whatever, Thaksin's faults are ,he has experience as a self made man, a man that built a business empire and a man that went from humble beginnings to the PM's office. He did it on his own. He also fell from power because of his misjudgements. I think he's learnt from his past mistakes and I also think he's tougher than PM Abhisit. I doubt Mr. Abhisit could have stood up to the pounding Mr. Thaksin's taken.I doubt any of the people that take their daily potshots at Thaksin could ever attain a smidgin of his success or could take on all the folks trying to get him.

The fact that Thaksin has survived this long and has had the ability to take his opponents on, despite the odds being against him speaks to his strength and yes, even to his intelligence. He's a fighter, a tough guy that isn't afraid to show his emotional side sometimes. I offer that a great many Thais can see those qualities and gravitate to a guy that they can identify with, a man that might be a wealthy elitist in private, but one who can be seen as a man of the people, a man that is perceived to have the interest of the poor at heart. He might be full of BS, but he does a better job at conveying concern and empathy than Mr. Abhisit. That doesn't mean Mr. Abhisit isn't a decent man or that he is a bad guy. It's just about perceptions.

good post - ditch Suthept and Dems might fare better - but PT will win the largest amount of votes for a single party I think - it's then down to the dirty horsetrading

Excellent post, a good summary of the differences in character between these two opponents. A nation fares better with a competent crook at the helm, far better than an incompetent "nice guy". Thaksin understands that contented cows yield the most milk. Or to use another saying, "you don't cook the goose that lays the golden eggs".

[jayboy]

There is a long established old boys network in the UK, it is unseen but very powerful. If you go to an old established Public School (in the English sense), as I did and also Abhisit, progress to Oxbridge it taken for granted. In the days of National military service, it was also automatic admission to Officer training and a commission. Public schools are geared towards Oxbridge in terms of their curriculum, whereas entrants from State schools are in need of supportive extra tuition to survive. Public school entrants usually do well because from the age of 12 they have been part of the university system and ethos. At university with the right money you can join relevant clubs and societies, have closer relationships with tutors and lecturers. Sure it is possible to flunk out of Oxbridge as a Public School entrant, but you have to work quite hard at it.

I am talking from personal experience, both of myself and my children, also as a teacher of pupils who went to Oxbridge and as a University lecturer at Imperial. Incidentally, at Imperial College there was a "no fail" policy for fee paying overseas students.

You are misinformed, or more charitably had your views formed in the distant past of the National Service era when certainly criteria were more relaxed.I can assure you that progress to Oxbridge is not taken for granted now by independent schools with the possible exception of 2 or 3 establishments - no more than that and it doesn't include Eton.Public school curricula are not really geared towards Oxbridge entrance now, with the vast majority of pupils going elsewhere.Your description of needing the right money to join the right clubs and societies at Oxbridge is frankly absurd, as is the suggestion that money is needed to have closer relationships with tutors and lecturers.

Are you sure you attended an old established public school because it doesn't sound like it.