Blind Loyalty Not Policies Seem To Matter For Some Voters; Thai Opinion

[OzMick]

I do buy a disproportionate amount of the beer, but probably in ratio to consumption. It is also to be noted that this a male only conversation, and the g/f is embarrassed when called on to assist my Thai. Also, I am not the only anti-Thaksinite present, which makes the whole thing much more interesting.

You are either very brave or very foolish to mix alcohol with Thai's and politics.

Strange as it may seem, not ALL red supporters are drunken thugs, just the majority. In fact I was hesitant to speak out, but they were sincerely interested in hearing an outsider's view, even if it agreed with a small minority of those present.

[whybother]

Quick Mr. Abhisit, drop everything! There's a couple of thousand Farangs waiting for PR permits, and hardly one of them has a vote! Get your priorities right PM! :violin:

You made an immediate assumption that I asked for Abhisit to drop everything and look into this issue. I actually made no mention of his name. The group of administrators that were given this portfolio failed to rectify an error that was pointed out to come from the previous administration. This was what they were tasked to do, but left it as it was. Yes, the PM should get his priorities right and measure his direct reports performance to their task. Or do you think that is not his job either.

And you're absolutely right, the last thing Thailand needs are foreigners.

Apparently the PR applications have been sitting in the relevant ministers draw waiting for his signature ... for 5 years. How many politicians have been in that seat during the last 5 years?

[Gerryasia]

This might just be one of the most profound stats to emerge from this election. I support the idea that Peua Thai have done a much better job of securing the trust of the masses who make up this country, and that is part of the democratic process, but for those who are concerned about the future direction, economically, and good governance, will be dismayed to learn this. It seems the majority are setting the direction on blind faith. It also stumps Thaksin's claim that he's the economic guru and the Dems are 'lacklustre'.

The current Arab uprisings are clearly showing that MANY cultures on this globe are NOT yet ready for a real "democracy".

The closer we get TO this election...the more I fear that Thailand is one of those cultures.

Quan Ma '~'

[metisdead]

It is perfectly acceptable to report on events and give opinions, it is not acceptable to post in a manner in which to bash any specific country. One post and replies to it have been removed. Off topic posts have also been removed.

[timekeeper]

But having said that my real question is this:

Why would anyone presume that a "Red" government in Thailand would make it "easier" to get a visa for a foriegner?

Can you explain to me why you have that belief?

Frankly, I can't see the logic there.

The yellows made it harder, they are the enemy.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

(Perfect logic!)

thaksin (red ) made it harder because of a terrorist

so reds are your enemy.....

[timekeeper]

Policies of all party's in all countries forgotten after elections.

Empty promises don't matter.

Under Reds, foreigners could get PR, VISA easy

Under Yellows, PR stopped, VISA harder

The Yellows hate foreigners more than the Reds.

I never understand why foreigners love Yellows?

They publicly declare they not trust foreigners.

I care nothing for corrupt or economics or policy

I care who makes it easy for me to live Thailand with wife and family.

you are wrong

thaksin toughened up the visa rules after a wanted terrorist was found to have been skipping in and out over the border on back to back 30 day visas for years and was arrested

this happened two weeks after thaksin declared ''there are no terrorists in Thailand!'

the US paid Thailand $12 million reward for him

not sure what happened to the 12 million...

however after thaksin had lost big face, the entry & visa rules were tightened and computers and links to mainframe were ordered for all checkpoints

this process has continued since

the rules have been tightened to discourage long stayers without correct visas

if you have a Thai wife and Thai family it should be easy for you

theres nothing new here to consider or to get upset about

in my view its not related to red or yellow leanings

its related more to common sense and national security

Agreed the visa rules were tightend under Taksin's incumbency. But your stating 'having a Thai wife and Thai family should be easy for you' erroneous. The farang husband must still 'visa run' every 90 days (stupid in the extreme). OR he's over 50 and able to show he's cashed up enough to procure a TEMPORARY visa of stay for just one more year.

being married and on a married visa is much easier than renewing by land border every 15 days or air every 30 days

i know guys who took the plunge just to avoid the runs.........

Edited June 20, 2011 by timekeeper

[animatic]

Thay are calmly stating what they have accomplished.

While the opposition is shouting :

That's not their policy, it is a fake.

Thaksin invented their policy, and they are only copying the great one.

They are not telling the truth, nothing they say is correct, as we have been telling you for years.

Don't believe a word they say because they have been stealing from your family.

And shouting down the Dems with tactical mobs at Dem rallies.

********

And they should run constructive campaigns...

You can't campaign as gentlemen here, only devious fakers need apply.

Why don't you enlighten us. What exactly have the democrats accomplished? What is stealing from Thai families is corruption and the democrats have done nothing towards eliminating the biggest drain on the Thai economy.

While your at it how about sharing with us exactly which countries have gentlemanly, constructive campaigns

Ah yes, perfectly timed examples of what I am saying.

Som nom nah. Total crap or fertilizer thearapy.

Perception Management in it's typical manner.

It only works if you can get a rise out of it.

Sorry TS. responce flaccid.

[citizen33]

Interesting how the narrative changes: first we are told that the votes of the uneducated Isaan peasants are for sale to anybody offering 500 baht, then we hear about blind loyalty and fixation on one party when people really favour the policies of its opponent. My take: it will be a long time before the folk memory of the bodies coming home last year fades in Isaan.

[hanuman1]

Interesting how the narrative changes: first we are told that the votes of the uneducated Isaan peasants are for sale to anybody offering 500 baht, then we hear about blind loyalty and fixation on one party when people really favour the policies of its opponent. My take: it will be a long time before the folk memory of the bodies coming home last year fades in Isaan.

I think that's a good point, but I don't think it's the just memory of dead civilians at the hands of a government that is fueling the discontent.

For generations Thais have been told through the media, advertising and traditional practices that they are united. From the daily observance of the national anthem to beer adverts with songs proclaiming 'Hua jai kon Thai dioaw gan' (Thais have one heart), everyone is constantly being told that they are all united and everything is fine. And then they look around every day and see the endless political divides that rack the nation and that they can hardly even describe let alone debate due to 'invisible hands' and the general murkiness of political maneouverings.

I think this what they're really pissed off about. And how else can they show their displeasure but to keep voting in new governments? In a political landscape that is not just hard to define but impossible even to discuss fully without breaking the law it seems inevitable that the country will remain locked into this flux for the foreseeable future.

It is the natural result of keeping millions of people in the dark for generations.

It is testament to the Thai 'jai yen' and 'mai ben rai' philosophies that there hasn't already been massive internal upheaval thus far.

Edited June 20, 2011 by hanuman1

[jdinasia]

Interesting how the narrative changes: first we are told that the votes of the uneducated Isaan peasants are for sale to anybody offering 500 baht, then we hear about blind loyalty and fixation on one party when people really favour the policies of its opponent. My take: it will be a long time before the folk memory of the bodies coming home last year fades in Isaan.

I think that's a good point, but I don't think it's the just memory of dead civilians at the hands of a government that is fueling the discontent.

For generations Thais have been told through the media, advertising and traditional practices that they are united. From the daily observance of the national anthem to beer adverts with songs proclaiming 'Hua jai kon Thai dioaw gan' (Thais have one heart), everyone is constantly being told that they are all united and everything is fine. And then they look around every day and see the endless political divides that rack the nation and that they can hardly even describe let alone debate due to 'invisible hands' and the general murkiness of political maneouverings.

I think this what they're really pissed off about. And how else can they show their displeasure but to keep voting in new governments? In a political landscape that is not just hard to define but impossible even to discuss fully without breaking the law it seems inevitable that the country will remain locked into this flux for the foreseeable future.

It is the natural result of keeping millions of people in the dark for generations.

It is testament to the Thai 'jai yen' and 'mai ben rai' philosophies that there hasn't already been massive internal upheaval thus far.

I think you are both ruling out that the regional power blocs have already bought the votes. Only time will tell what the real answer is. With the defections of the Friends of Newin and their subsequent wins in the by-elections I have seen nothing yet that makes me think the political structures upcountry have changed (including looking at S'noh and the rest)

[moe666]

Policies of all party's in all countries forgotten after elections.

Empty promises don't matter.

Under Reds, foreigners could get PR, VISA easy

Under Yellows, PR stopped, VISA harder

The Yellows hate foreigners more than the Reds.

I never understand why foreigners love Yellows?

They publicly declare they not trust foreigners.

I care nothing for corrupt or economics or policy

I care who makes it easy for me to live Thailand with wife and family.

Talk about blind alligence. What makes you think reds care about you. Thai- Rak- Thai was Taksins first party there is nothing in there about caring for falangs.

[erobando]

I think some people are viewing the article as condemnation of PT supporters and their "blind loyalty."

I took is a condemnation of Thai politics in general... whether it's Democrats in the South, Newin's party, Barnharn's party, etc., loyalty wins every time.

Thai politics is about people, not policy or platform.

Most of the parties running are promising things (laptops for every kid, easier access to a first home/car, blanket cost reduction on certain items, etc.) but few of the parties have long-term plans or ideologies that characterize their parties.

As far as the Visa issues, I'm pretty sure that a 1-year Support Thai Spouse Visa can be easily obtained (and renewed) as long as one has an monthly income of 40,000 Baht. That doesn't seem like an overly harsh requirement to me.

[trisailer]

Thay are calmly stating what they have accomplished.

While the opposition is shouting :

That's not their policy, it is a fake.

Thaksin invented their policy, and they are only copying the great one.

They are not telling the truth, nothing they say is correct, as we have been telling you for years.

Don't believe a word they say because they have been stealing from your family.

And shouting down the Dems with tactical mobs at Dem rallies.

********

And they should run constructive campaigns...

You can't campaign as gentlemen here, only devious fakers need apply.

Why don't you enlighten us. What exactly have the democrats accomplished? What is stealing from Thai families is corruption and the democrats have done nothing towards eliminating the biggest drain on the Thai economy.

While your at it how about sharing with us exactly which countries have gentlemanly, constructive campaigns

Ah yes, perfectly timed examples of what I am saying.

Som nom nah. Total crap or fertilizer thearapy.

Perception Management in it's typical manner.

It only works if you can get a rise out of it.

Sorry TS. responce flaccid.

Normal discussion protocal is make a point and then support it with facts that defend your conclusion. If you don't agree with my facts than why don't you come up with your own. This is what thoughtful, educated critical thinkers do

[OlafStapleton]

As far as the Visa issues, I'm pretty sure that a 1-year Support Thai Spouse Visa can be easily obtained (and renewed) as long as one has an monthly income of 40,000 Baht. That doesn't seem like an overly harsh requirement to me.

It is only required for foreign men. Should be called MALE spouse VISA extension.

Strange that nobody has any information on what Yellows ever do for foreigners.

Just slag off Reds.

Edited June 21, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[animatic]

Policies of all party's in all countries forgotten after elections.

Empty promises don't matter.

Under Reds, foreigners could get PR, VISA easy

Under Yellows, PR stopped, VISA harder

The Yellows hate foreigners more than the Reds.

I never understand why foreigners love Yellows?

They publicly declare they not trust foreigners.

I care nothing for corrupt or economics or policy

I care who makes it easy for me to live Thailand with wife and family.

Talk about blind alligence. What makes you think reds care about you. Thai- Rak- Thai was Taksins first party there is nothing in there about caring for falangs.

What makes you think there were Reds under that name

the last time Permanent Residency was easy to get?

And what makes you think that Yellows existed at that time either?

Though groups and to some extent attitudes that lead to these to diametric polar groups were existing before, they are relatively new groups and post date significantly the time frame of your erroneous arguments. Yes talk about blind allegiance. Facts are not relevant to 'true believers', they will repeat what ever they are told by those they are infatuated with. Regardless of logic or context.

[animatic]

Thay are calmly stating what they have accomplished.

While the opposition is shouting :

That's not their policy, it is a fake.

Thaksin invented their policy, and they are only copying the great one.

They are not telling the truth, nothing they say is correct, as we have been telling you for years.

Don't believe a word they say because they have been stealing from your family.

And shouting down the Dems with tactical mobs at Dem rallies.

********

And they should run constructive campaigns...

You can't campaign as gentlemen here, only devious fakers need apply.

Why don't you enlighten us. What exactly have the democrats accomplished? What is stealing from Thai families is corruption and the democrats have done nothing towards eliminating the biggest drain on the Thai economy.

While your at it how about sharing with us exactly which countries have gentlemanly, constructive campaigns

Ah yes, perfectly timed examples of what I am saying.

Som nom nah. Total crap or fertilizer thearapy.

Perception Management in it's typical manner.

It only works if you can get a rise out of it.

Sorry TS. responce flaccid.

Normal discussion protocal is make a point and then support it with facts that defend your conclusion. If you don't agree with my facts than why don't you come up with your own. This is what thoughtful, educated critical thinkers do

If you can't see the facts all around you, I can't help you to.

And restating yet again facts, that are obvious and oft repeated,

but oft disbelieved, has proved irrelevant in the past, since they do not support preconceived biases. Symmetrical protocol works effectively, monomaniacal protocol is an oxymoron.

Edited June 21, 2011 by animatic

[whybother]

As far as the Visa issues, I'm pretty sure that a 1-year Support Thai Spouse Visa can be easily obtained (and renewed) as long as one has an monthly income of 40,000 Baht. That doesn't seem like an overly harsh requirement to me.

It is only required for foreign men. Should be called MALE spouse VISA extension.

Strange that nobody has any information on what Yellows ever do for foreigners.

Just slag off Reds.

The yellows don't do anything particularly for foreigners. They are a protest group. What do you think that they can do?

[OlafStapleton]

Though groups and to some extent attitudes that lead to these to diametric polar groups were existing before, they are relatively new groups and post date significantly the time frame of your erroneous arguments. Yes talk about blind allegiance. Facts are not relevant to 'true believers', they will repeat what ever they are told by those they are infatuated with. Regardless of logic or context.

No 'facts' in your post!

Try to include at least one.

Fact in my post

Yellows don't process PR for 5 years.

Edited June 21, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[moe666]

Though groups and to some extent attitudes that lead to these to diametric polar groups were existing before, they are relatively new groups and post date significantly the time frame of your erroneous arguments. Yes talk about blind allegiance. Facts are not relevant to 'true believers', they will repeat what ever they are told by those they are infatuated with. Regardless of logic or context.

No 'facts' in your post!

The fact is that no facts are necessary for a true believer nor is logic part of the equation

After the rapture people where not taken up recently they just changed the out come. As opposed to the physical rapture that was being prepared for it was replaced by a spiritual rapture. As the world didn't end, out calculations where off it will be in Oct. now. Sounds a bit like the reds here, we didn't do anything but demonstrate peacefully, not our fault people where killed, we didn't cause people to lose their jobs, we didn't burn down Central world, we didn't burn down city halls up country, we just demonstrate peacefully.

Edited June 21, 2011 by moe666

[OlafStapleton]

The fact is that no facts are necessary for a true believer nor is logic part of the equation

I try to understand why white foreigner like Yellow.

Nobody will tell me.

Maybe you right and they just 'true believer'

[whybother]

The fact is that no facts are necessary for a true believer nor is logic part of the equation

I try to understand why white foreigner like Yellow.

Nobody will tell me.

Maybe you right and they just 'true believer'

Where are any "white foreigners" saying that they like the yellow shirts?

[animatic]

Though groups and to some extent attitudes that lead to these to diametric polar groups were existing before, they are relatively new groups and post date significantly the time frame of your erroneous arguments. Yes talk about blind allegiance. Facts are not relevant to 'true believers', they will repeat what ever they are told by those they are infatuated with. Regardless of logic or context.

No 'facts' in your post!

Try to include at least one.

Fact in my post

Yellows don't process PR for 5 years.

FACT . The "Yellows" have never been in office ever.

The Yellows are PAD a pressure group.

Their political party branch has never won office.

PAD has never been in, nor controlled a government in Thailand, no matter how hard they tried to. And this is explained by the Vote No campaign. They couldn't control the Dems and now want revenge for being rightly marginalized

Edited June 21, 2011 by animatic

[Ricardo]

Though groups and to some extent attitudes that lead to these to diametric polar groups were existing before, they are relatively new groups and post date significantly the time frame of your erroneous arguments. Yes talk about blind allegiance. Facts are not relevant to 'true believers', they will repeat what ever they are told by those they are infatuated with. Regardless of logic or context.

No 'facts' in your post!

Try to include at least one.

Fact in my post

Yellows don't process PR for 5 years.

Over the past 5 years there have been 4 governments :-

1. The junta-appointed one led by PM-Surayud

2. The PPP-led coalition led by PM-Samak

3. The PPP-led coalition led by PM-Somchai

4. The Democrat-led coalition led by PM-Abhisit

I don't believe the PAD/NPP were part of any of these governments, so how can "Yellows don't process PR for 5 years" be true ? Wouldn't you agree, it is more-correct to say, 'no government has processed PR-applications during the past 5 years' ?

[jdinasia]

But having said that my real question is this:

Why would anyone presume that a "Red" government in Thailand would make it "easier" to get a visa for a foriegner?

Can you explain to me why you have that belief?

Frankly, I can't see the logic there.

The yellows made it harder, they are the enemy.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

(Perfect logic!)

Ummmm no.