Busted For Not Carrying Passport

[Alex8]

I have lived in Thailand for over 34 years now, still do a lot of up-country travel etc., and the only time I was ever asked to show I.D. was by an American MP in the early '70's - in a bar on Petchburi Road, then the main haunt of American Servicemen on R & R (I am British so he was politely told to bu99er off).

The only time I carry my Passport in Thailand is if I am flying within the Country or expect to stay in an hotel - other than the ones in Soi 3 of course!

However I guess if you spend a lot of time in bars until late, ride a motorcycle or look disreputable there is a chance that you will be stopped and asked for I.D..

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have scanned and enjoyed reading this issue. Much of it is total crap, generated by macho idiots I like your contribution. It meets all the right criteria. It is mature, well studied. You have the correct attitude and the experience to match. In short, if you have a clean record and behave properly you don't have to worry about cops, fines, procedures or replacement costs. Small infringements can be shrugged off.

Any return vitriol will be ignored because I'm well past my sleep barrier and totally brain dead - jet lagged.

Signing out as

Alex8 - effectively, a new member; quite unsure how to manage this site!

When I wake up in approx 36 hours, I shall enjoy reading the flack.

[sabaijai]

I have lived in Thailand for over 34 years now, still do a lot of up-country travel etc., and the only time I was ever asked to show I.D. was by an American MP in the early '70's - in a bar on Petchburi Road, then the main haunt of American Servicemen on R & R (I am British so he was politely told to bu99er off).

The only time I carry my Passport in Thailand is if I am flying within the Country or expect to stay in an hotel - other than the ones in Soi 3 of course!

However I guess if you spend a lot of time in bars until late, ride a motorcycle or look disreputable there is a chance that you will be stopped and asked for I.D..

Patrick

I have scanned and enjoyed reading this issue. Much of it is total crap, generated by macho idiots I like your contribution. It meets all the right criteria. It is mature, well studied. You have the correct attitude and the experience to match. In short, if you have a clean record and behave properly you don't have to worry about cops, fines, procedures or replacement costs. Small infringements can be shrugged off.

Any return vitriol will be ignored because I'm well past my sleep barrier and totally brain dead - jet lagged.

Signing out as

Alex8 - effectively, a new member; quite unsure how to manage this site!

When I wake up in approx 36 hours, I shall enjoy reading the flack.

No flack here, I agree carrying your passport everywhere is unwarranted, but I think 'idiots' is a little strong.

Rather than a comment on intelligence, compulsive passport-carrying may suggest: a) a need to legitimise one's presence in Thailand in order to avoid investigation, i.e., the carrier is hiding something (or believes he's hiding something; see option c); b ) that the holder's residence is unsafe; or c) simple paranoia.

[autonomous_unit]

... b ) that the holder's residence is unsafe; or c) simple paranoia. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I probably worry about having my ID because the legal requirement is such a foreign idea to me. I have little experience being obligated to randomly present ID, except for a driver's license while driving in the US, in which case it is less trouble to keep track of the license than the car keys. I admit having limited experience with this, having spent only about 4 weeks abroad in 30 years, before relocating to Thailand with my wife last year.

But throwing around "paranoia" seems a bit biased. Why would it be paranoia to worry more about your passport might be stolen in your absence, versus from your person? I've known a lot more people who have been burgled than mugged/robbed. I've personally never experienced either.

On the other hand, I don't think it is really a question of where the passport is "more secure" so much as a question of what do you see as the tradeoffs and the odds of each occurring:

the hassle of not being able to meet legal obligations,

versus the hassle of replacement of lost/stolen ID,

versus the inconvenience of carrying ID.

I think we've seen here that different people have wildly different ideas of either the relative odds or the relative hassle of each of these things...

[RDN]

... b ) that the holder's residence is unsafe; or c) simple paranoia. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I probably worry about having my ID because the legal requirement is such a foreign idea to me. I have little experience being obligated to randomly present ID, except for a driver's license while driving in the US, in which case it is less trouble to keep track of the license than the car keys. I admit having limited experience with this, having spent only about 4 weeks abroad in 30 years, before relocating to Thailand with my wife last year.

But throwing around "paranoia" seems a bit biased. Why would it be paranoia to worry more about your passport might be stolen in your absence, versus from your person? I've known a lot more people who have been burgled than mugged/robbed. I've personally never experienced either.

On the other hand, I don't think it is really a question of where the passport is "more secure" so much as a question of what do you see as the tradeoffs and the odds of each occurring:

the hassle of not being able to meet legal obligations,

versus the hassle of replacement of lost/stolen ID,

versus the inconvenience of carrying ID.

I think we've seen here that different people have wildly different ideas of either the relative odds or the relative hassle of each of these things...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now, that is a very balanced post.

[Ajarn_Jonesy]

Are you sure a photo copy will suffice? Can a UK Drivers Licence be proof of ID? If not, i'd sooner risk a 500baht fine, than the hassles that go with losing a Passport, when slightly intoxicated 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A photo copy worked for me when I was stopped in Chiang Mai..I was a little At the time..

[OxfordWill]

In short, if you have a clean record and behave properly you don't have to worry about cops, fines, procedures or replacement costs.

Could you explain how having a 'clean record' has any impact on the cost/hassle (implicited) of replacement costs should you lose your passport?

Also, what behaviour is 'proper' when a corrupt policemen demands a bribe from you and how does such behaviour assist one 'not worry'.

What of the many individuals who have had to go through tiresome 'procedures' even though they behaved correctly and have a clean record but simply were the unfortunate victims of a language problem or a police error?

I don't advocate the carrying of your passport on a daily basis but I think your reasons for not doing so need to be thought through. When I go out without my passport I do so with the full knowledge that I could be unlucky, and have to go to a police station, or have to be escorted to my home to show it to a cop should the worst happen. Why? Because it has happened to many others.

Hrm, maybe I need to reconsider carrying my passport around.

[Pie Boy]

I have lived in Thailand for over 34 years now, still do a lot of up-country travel etc., and the only time I was ever asked to show I.D. was by an American MP in the early '70's - in a bar on Petchburi Road, then the main haunt of American Servicemen on R & R (I am British so he was politely told to bu99er off).

The only time I carry my Passport in Thailand is if I am flying within the Country or expect to stay in an hotel - other than the ones in Soi 3 of course!

However I guess if you spend a lot of time in bars until late, ride a motorcycle or look disreputable there is a chance that you will be stopped and asked for I.D..

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

34 years in Thailand and still carrying a british passport, jeez ever thought about lookin' into an alernative arrangement?

[britmaveric]

In short, if you have a clean record and behave properly you don't have to worry about cops, fines, procedures or replacement costs.

Could you explain how having a 'clean record' has any impact on the cost/hassle (implicited) of replacement costs should you lose your passport?

Also, what behaviour is 'proper' when a corrupt policemen demands a bribe from you and how does such behaviour assist one 'not worry'.

What of the many individuals who have had to go through tiresome 'procedures' even though they behaved correctly and have a clean record but simply were the unfortunate victims of a language problem or a police error?

I don't advocate the carrying of your passport on a daily basis but I think your reasons for not doing so need to be thought through. When I go out without my passport I do so with the full knowledge that I could be unlucky, and have to go to a police station, or have to be escorted to my home to show it to a cop should the worst happen. Why? Because it has happened to many others.

Hrm, maybe I need to reconsider carrying my passport around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly Will!!! If you know the consequences then you know what to expect - decide for yourself if you want a little inconvenience by carrying your passport or not carrying. Both ways have their pros and cons.

[RDN]

I have lived in Thailand for over 34 years now, still do a lot of up-country travel etc., and the only time I was ever asked to show I.D. was by an American MP in the early '70's - in a bar on Petchburi Road, then the main haunt of American Servicemen on R & R (I am British so he was politely told to bu99er off).

The only time I carry my Passport in Thailand is if I am flying within the Country or expect to stay in an hotel - other than the ones in Soi 3 of course!

However I guess if you spend a lot of time in bars until late, ride a motorcycle or look disreputable there is a chance that you will be stopped and asked for I.D..

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

34 years in Thailand and still carrying a british passport, jeez ever thought about lookin' into an alernative arrangement?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Comprehension not your strong point?

[britmaveric]

I have lived in Thailand for over 34 years now, still do a lot of up-country travel etc., and the only time I was ever asked to show I.D. was by an American MP in the early '70's - in a bar on Petchburi Road, then the main haunt of American Servicemen on R & R (I am British so he was politely told to bu99er off).

The only time I carry my Passport in Thailand is if I am flying within the Country or expect to stay in an hotel - other than the ones in Soi 3 of course!

However I guess if you spend a lot of time in bars until late, ride a motorcycle or look disreputable there is a chance that you will be stopped and asked for I.D..

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

34 years in Thailand and still carrying a british passport, jeez ever thought about lookin' into an alernative arrangement?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Comprehension not your strong point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pie Boy]

I have lived in Thailand for over 34 years now, still do a lot of up-country travel etc., and the only time I was ever asked to show I.D. was by an American MP in the early '70's - in a bar on Petchburi Road, then the main haunt of American Servicemen on R & R (I am British so he was politely told to bu99er off).

The only time I carry my Passport in Thailand is if I am flying within the Country or expect to stay in an hotel - other than the ones in Soi 3 of course!

However I guess if you spend a lot of time in bars until late, ride a motorcycle or look disreputable there is a chance that you will be stopped and asked for I.D..

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

34 years in Thailand and still carrying a british passport, jeez ever thought about lookin' into an alernative arrangement?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Comprehension not your strong point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ooops - after several Stella's-Clearly not!

Note to brain - stay away from the PC after beers otherwise you'll have no comprehension of what you're posting.

[RDN]

Ooops -  after several Stella's-Clearly not!

Note to brain - stay away from the PC after beers otherwise you'll have no comprehension of what you're posting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice one!

[cwilliam]

I've carried my passport for over three years. Never lost it once. Ditto my wallet. What do you guys get up to that creates such a risk of losing your belongings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just show them my police ID from the states--works all the time.

[Guest endure]

Hmm, all this talk has made me rethink whether I should get a new (US) passport instead of just having pages added.  My current passport has 24 pages and is very slim and flexible, but it's getting to the point where immigration officers have to hunt a bit for space to stamp.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do they add pages to your passport? Do they staple them in? Is there some inbuilt facility to add them?

[Firefan]

More and more countries have stopped the "adding of pages" for security reasons and believe the US has done so too recently? For sure my Scandinavien home country has done it already. Cheers!

[lopburi3]

More and more countries have stopped the "adding of pages" for security reasons and believe the US has done so too recently? For sure my Scandinavien home country has done it already. Cheers!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess they forgot to tell those that add the pages in that case as both the Department of State and US Embassy Bangkok still list it as a normal service.

[T_Dog]

I and several other foreigners waiting for passengers at the Chiang Mai Airport last night were approached by an Immigration Officer and told to produce passports. Being unable to do so, I was told I was in violation of the law, and that the next time my name appeared I would be taken to jail. No mention of a fine. I was cordial and polite and asked if my copy or Thai driver's license was acceptable. The officer stated that foreigners in all countries must carry their original passports and Thailand is no exception. He certainly acted as if the law was behind him and that he had the authority to enforce it. I felt a bit berated after he left. All of my experiences with Immigration up to this point have been very positive and I have felt welcome here. This guy seemed to try to change that feeling.

Are other people experiencing increased pressure from Immigration Officers to carry original passports?

(edit: added clarification that we were waiting for incoming passengers)

Edited August 30, 2008 by T_Dog

[ovenman]

The officer stated that foreigners in all countries must carry their original passports and Thailand is no exception.

So this immigrations official is an avowed expert in identification laws of all countries, eh?

Are other people experiencing increased pressure from Immigration Officers to carry original passports?

No, but this is one of those policies that comes and goes with the wind. With the turmoil at other airports yesterday, this may have been a simple step-up of security measures. Or it could simply be one lone official having a bad day who felt like harassing some farang.

[OlRedEyes]

Can't we just get immigration to tattoo the visa on us... Solve a lotta problems for a lot of people. No plastic bags, save the world.

Immigration, are you reading this.

[tropo]

A laminated copy of one’s passport and copy of current immi stock keeping in/out stamp sounds like a good idea until you realize that if some BIB suddenly and arbitrarily decides to move the goal posts, then it's no longer a good idea!

Nothing is “de facto” here in TH!

The bona fide “perpetrator” caught out without the proper documentation, might wind up doing a stretch in some holding tank - with REAL criminals - until friends, family or with his/her diplos grudgingly dropping in to sort the mess out.

I pack the up-to-date original – always.

If my document gets lost, stolen or whatever, so be it; I know I will have to put up with all the discomforts of jumping trough the various hoops to redress the situation but no IDC for me! Shuffling around in leg irons while perhaps being forcibly “entertained” by some brothers, because of two unacceptable photocopies, is not an option for me at least!

Maybe a tad harsh for a place that claims to be tourist friendly but I don’t make the rules around here and, like it or not, dura lex sed lex and ignorance of the law is no excuse do still apply also here in the LOS (even if discretionally)!

Carrying your passport everywhere is being a tad paranoid IMO. To the beach? To the gym? Out on a boat?

A 1000 baht fine and an hour or two inconvenience is a risk I'm willing to take.

[catmac]

Main reason - heat/humdity cause havouc on the document. One day forgot to put it back in the safe and carried it around in my pocket. (completely knackered)

Not once in nearly 10yrs have I been asked for my passport in Thailand apart for immigration at the airport or hotel checkin. Further more never been asked anywhere in the world for said passport, apart from airport/hotel/currency exchange dealings.

I'm with BM on this one, in 50 years of globe trotting nobody has ever asked for my passport (save for the necessary immigration, hotel and currency exchange/banking scenarios). I do cary photocopies of all the relevant pages, and my UK driving licence was happily accepted as OK the one time I was stopped at a routine traffic check in Chiang Mai.

Losing your passport or credit cards abroad is a nightmare, much better to keep them safely locked up in your hotel or at home!

[tropo]

Cargo shorts pocket:

....destroying a document that can be a pain to replace. I've been to Thailand during Songkran (LOVED IT!!). Kept money, cigs, and stuff in zip lock bag, but still got wet....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, I do have photocopies - and digital photographs - of every page of the passport in case it does get stolen, lost or destroyed so that it can be replaced as quickly as possible. But one of the reasons I carry mine is precisely because it is so important - I do not have a safe at home, and I wouldn't want to come home one day and find it stolen by a burglar. So "on my person" is the safest place for it - for me, anyway.

I'd rather buy a good safe than carry my passport around in that cargo shorts pocket of yours.

[libya 115]

I would not carry my original passport in Thailand. It is not necessary. I carry a colour copy of the ID page and the current entry stamp and visa.

I've never been asked for it by the police in Thailand in eight years.

If the police ever suggested that the colour copy was not good enough, I would dig my heels in and ask to see senior police. They don't deserve 500 or 1000 baht of my money if I have gone to the trouble of having a colour copy on me.

If anyone reading this travels to Japan, then always have your original passport on you. Japanese police can just bang you up indefinitely for not carrying it.

Edited August 30, 2008 by libya 115

[Shotime]

The plastic bag and cargo pants discussions were intriguing.

I never carry mine either, but it only takes one time to change your habits. It seems as if the police stop you, passport or not, they're going to break balls. It can easily become a waste of time, and if you're not careful, it could become a major hassle. Some people just look like victims. I'll probably get stopped today for talking about it.

[NanLaew]

I would not carry my original passport in Thailand. It is not necessary. I carry a colour copy of the ID page and the current entry stamp and visa.

I've never been asked for it by the police in Thailand in eight years.

If the police ever suggested that the colour copy was not good enough, I would dig my heels in and ask to see senior police. They don't deserve 500 or 1000 baht of my money if I have gone to the trouble of having a colour copy on me.

If anyone reading this travels to Japan, then always have your original passport on you. Japanese police can just bang you up indefinitely for not carrying it.

So, what's to stop the Thai police doing a similar 'bang you up indefinitely' since it appears that Japan and Thailand share the same basic legal requirements for foreigners personal ID?

I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few of those that proclaim their passport is way too precious and delicate a document for daily portage are the same people that abuse and deface their passports by quite happily removing used visa stickers so they don't have to spend money on a new one.

[barky]

In eight years I have never carried my passport with me and I never will. It's not worth the hassle and overall cost (including time and effort) to me of getting a new replacement passport if I lost it.

I carry a copy of the two most important pages and I also have my Thai driving licence with me most times.

If I encounter a cop that I can't sweet talk, I'll just pay the 500-1,000 baht. To me a fine is a small amout compared to the ovrall cost of replacing it ,not to mention the inconvenience and worry about carrying it around all the time.

[poshthai]

The only time i have been stopped by b.i.b,and he asked my for passport,i produced my copy thai driving license and he said not copy only original.my repsonse was b,shit,i told him i had been to immigration and they confirmed that a copy passport or driving license was ok if stopped.he huffed and puffed and walked away without any tea money.

[NanLaew]

I and several other foreigners waiting for passengers at the Chiang Mai Airport last night were approached by an Immigration Officer and told to produce passports. Being unable to do so, I was told I was in violation of the law, and that the next time my name appeared I would be taken to jail. No mention of a fine. I was cordial and polite and asked if my copy or Thai driver's license was acceptable. The officer stated that foreigners in all countries must carry their original passports and Thailand is no exception. He certainly acted as if the law was behind him and that he had the authority to enforce it. I felt a bit berated after he left. All of my experiences with Immigration up to this point have been very positive and I have felt welcome here. This guy seemed to try to change that feeling.

Are other people experiencing increased pressure from Immigration Officers to carry original passports?

(edit: added clarification that we were waiting for incoming passengers)

Sounds like this Immigration chap must have been given a bollocking by his boss and to make himself feel better, went and hassled some foreigners. His blanket statement that all countries require all foreigners to carry their passports at all times is a joke but we must forgive his ignorance as he is an 'officer' after all.

Then again, maybe he's a PAD sympathiser and will be happier when the yellow-shirts start their HKT shenanigans at CNX and he can really strut his stuff.

[Kerryd]

The officer stated that foreigners in all countries must carry their original passports and Thailand is no exception.

His blanket statement that all countries require all foreigners to carry their passports at all times is a joke but we must forgive his ignorance as he is an 'officer' after all.

I'm sure he probably meant that all foreigners from all countries (not "in all countries") are required to have their passports on them at all times.

This requirement has been discussed many times before and isn't something new. Like many other rules, sometimes they get cranky and enforce it, sometimes they don't. Numerous people have mentioned that they carry a photocopy of certain pages (as I do), and that has been accepted (though technically it is still a violation). In different places, at different times, it hasn't been accepted.

I too have a problem with carrying my original around with me 24/7. What if I go to the beach ? Can't swim with it, and sure don't want to leave it (and my wallet/money/ID) sitting on the beach while I go for a swim or what ever.

Songkran ? Forget it. Even wrapped in ziplock baggies, things seem to still get wet.

I've renewed my passport once in Thailand (ran out of pages). Wasn't overly difficult, but was inconvenient (having to make two trips to Bkk from Pattaya just for that purpose). I'd hate to have to do it again (and again) because it got lost/stolen/damaged while trying to carry it around everywhere I go.

I haven't been stopped anywhere and asked to produce my passport. Might happen one day and if it does, then I'll deal with it at the time. Like barky mentioned, 500-1,000 baht is a lot easier to deal with than having to replace the whole thing.

[dseawarrior]

More and more countries have stopped the "adding of pages" for security reasons and believe the US has done so too recently? For sure my Scandinavien home country has done it already. Cheers!

... not correct based on my recent experience of 2 months ago ...

Just added pages to my US PP... That was after a thorough check of my ID by the US Bangkok Embassy in communication with Washington and their department of justice database... I have a relatively common name so they were confirming that I was not some persona non grata out there...

To make a long story short... I did not have my PP in my possession _at all_ for 4 days... (was at the US Bangkok Embassy) ...

Was a bit annoyed by not having my PP but did not worry because I usually NEVER carry my PP on my person...

Usually it is locked up in my place of work in my office -- where I also keep my work permit (locked up)...

Instead I carry my Thai work ID card and my US driver's license... Much smaller and much easier and cheaper to replace those...

No problem in 6 years of travelling and living here for over 2 years...

So much of this thread seems related to personal comfort and personal behavior... And knowledge of the Thai people and Thai police...

In the few times I have been approached by the BiB (whether driving or sittting minding my own business) it seems that the BiB have their own agenda... One time an older BiB seemed to be "training" a younger BiB... It was a farce because the older BiB had never even seen a US PP -- this was in a tiny little village in KhonKaen -- I just smiled and let the fool examine my PP for a while ... He gave it back after fumbling with it for 5 minutes (really) -- if he knew what he was doing he could have done the same task in 1 minute...

The other time where I was asked for my PP, I simply gave him my US drivers license -- this BiB seemed out for tea money -- I spoke to him clearly (in Thai) that I had not done anything wrong and there was not a problem -- basically stared him down for a minute while sitting in my car -- he knew he was trying to ask for a bribe -- and he waved me on to go about my business... All the documents for my car were up date -- as any BiB can clearly see by looking at the windshield... My theory is that he was envious of the car -- figured I had some money to give him -- and thought it was worth the effort to shake me down... I was not.

One extra comment... Many Thais and many Thai police are actually fairly timid and some downright afraid of many farang... If you behave well and reasonably you will not have a problem... Same same for farang who encounter Thai police -- many farang have a fear reaction -- and that conflicts with your goal of moving on with your personal business... Simply put: do not fearful or overly anxious is a good strategy to maintain...

Being clear, being polite, being friendly and holding your ground is simple to do (assuming you are not drunk or a jerk or a paranoid schizophrenic )...

Comportment is easy if you have decent manners... If you DON'T have decent manners, then BiB will pester you A LOT...

For years now I DO NOT carry my PP with me unless I am checking in or out of the airport or a hotel... The only other exception is if my work needs to update something with immigration...

Instead, I carry my local ID, my US driver's license, a tattered front page copy of my PP and my brain with me most of the time...

That seems to be sufficient...

Losing my PP (and have the paranoia of losing it) by carrying it with me at all times seems to be WAY OVER THE TOP...

My 2 satangs...