Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash

[sydneyjed]

Well it's slower and safer that's for sure but a good book/newspaper and sometimes good company at least means you can relax and not worry...it's certainly stress free in comparison!

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

The article stated that it was a 'head-on' collision. Due to brake failure? Avoiding an animal (even a water buffalo?)? I'd say either poor judgment in passing, driving too fast for conditions, a blowout, driver inattentive or asleep. Someone or something screwed-up - more likely someone.

Take the train it's more fun and it's safer !!!!

[dutchweller]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

I'm a regular passenger in Thailand with my gf and family when we get in the pickup I'm straight on with the belt they all laugh at me in England it's second nature to belt up done with out thinking.

My GF's family treated me the same when I put on the seat belt and her Brother is a police man.

He used to think when I put on the belt I am implying he is a bad driver so it offended him.

He changed his opinion when I explained that I put on the seat belt because many "Other" Thai drivers are bad drivers..

Now he insists everyone ware a seat belt when he drives..

My GF laughs her head off when her brother now Insists on it before he will start the engine....

She teases him that he is becoming Farang...much to his annoyance..

Edited July 1, 2011 by dutchweller

[jaybrian]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

[jaybrian]

Oh come on Wanderlust. Incidents lime these are happening constantly in Thailand. I love Thailand but the bus drivers and especially van drivers are poorly trained and always drive too fast. I didn't inspect the busses but I would be surprised if it was anything other than driver error.

[midas]

Firstly, sincere condolences to the families and friends of those who died.

I regularly use NCA coaches, skilful drivers with no thought of racing other buses. Sometimes it is frustrating to see all the other buses passing, but I get to Khrung Thep on schedule (alive).

For visa runs from Khon Kaen I like to use Chan Tours buses, whose drivers also do not have Bus Grand Prix aspirations.

Both operators do provide seat belts.

I used a normal provincial (aircon) bus to go to Phitsanulok. The driver kept his speed very low while descending the mountainous section, Skilled and careful, so I consider the stereo-typing of Thai bus drivers a little unfair. Sure, there are good and bad drivers everywhere in the world and perhaps the good/bad ratio is somewhat skewed in LOS but it does not mean the bus driver is always wrong.

"DING DING Fares please"

I totally agree with you farangbanok. NCA is the only company I would use in Thailand. On the Bangkok to Chiang Mai route they have two drivers and change midway.

But I have also driven this route myself and the road between Bangkok to Khampaeng Pet which is where this tragic accident occurred is pretty good-dual carriageway so I don't quite understand the head-on collision part.

But I agree with everyone else about lack of driver training here. They just don't take it seriously

[Activo]

It does appear that people are jumping the gun, but ask yourself why? Fatal bus and minibus crashes are literally a weekly event here. Just a few months ago a total of 33 people died in 3 seperate crashes in a period of 2 weeks.

Anyone who drives here know how bad the driving standards are. I know my first thought was here we go again. Dangerous drivers and unfortunate passengers. That is my normal first reaction when these reports hit the media and so far I can't remember an occasion in the past 11 years when it was wrong........

I don't use buses anymore, nor will I let my family use them. I hired a bus and driver some years ago for when my UK family visited. I had to threaten the driver with cancellation of the 2 week hire because he was driving dangerously and would not listen to our protests. Hit em where it hurts - in the wallet. Just like they do everywhere else. Police the driving & fine the living daylightsd out of them!

I have two sons of a similar age, both of which have been to Thailand many times and loved it. My heart goes out to the parents

I have been reading here a lot and, unfortunately, all too often, the worst is assumed by most people. It is worse than back-seat driving or divan refereeing during a game. First, the only things known are what the reporters report. Then, these reportes are described here as less than "informative" and so on. Then, criticism about whatever can be conjured up about Thailand, drivers, laws, social norms and so on. It seems that, here, people writing really do not like Thailand. There seems to be blinders on such that, if it is not like back home (which it really is, if thought about icarefully, as people from all over the world die in accidents in England, Austrailia and the US as well as other nations in the entire world, which are not mentioned here at all). Unfortunately, the bias is all to clear and comments such as "go anywhere else you can [but not to Thailand]" are more demeaning to Thailand that I am grieviously disturbed. I would like to read more thoughtful comments rather than visceral reactions. There is too little analysis. I am going to do a little research on a few things, if I can, and put this in real perspective for people here so that they will be able to "get a grip" on reality about home as well as about Thailand.

[fredob43]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

The article stated that it was a 'head-on' collision. Due to brake failure? Avoiding an animal (even a water buffalo?)? I'd say either poor judgment in passing, driving too fast for conditions, a blowout, driver inattentive or asleep. Someone or something screwed-up - more likely someone.

I know khlong khlung very well and the road's are all two lane duel carriage way's with at least a 4mt verge all tree lined between them. How the hell can they have a head on on a duel carriage way I would like to know. Rest in peace Boy's. Edited July 1, 2011 by fredob43

[Atmos]

no head-on crash?

Photos from The Daily Mail

article states: the coach in which they were travelling from Bangkok to the northern town of Chiang Mai was hit from behind by a bus.

Rescue efforts: Rescuers tried desperately to rescue the trapped holidaymakers

Wreckage: The three men are said to have died instantly

Edited July 1, 2011 by Atmos

[Atmos]

and some controversy in UK - from The Telegraph

Writer Kia Abdullah mocks death of gap year students on Twitter

Kia Abdullah, a writer for The Guardian, has sparked widespread condemnation after posting comments on Twitter in which she mocked the deaths of three gap year students in Thailand.

01 Jul 2011

The 29-year-old British Bangladeshi indicated that she felt no sympathy for the three teenagers, who died in a bus crash in the early hours of Tuesday morning, because they were middle class.

Describing their travels as a “gap yaar”, Miss Abdullah even said she smiled when she heard the news because two of the young men killed had double barrelled names.

Her comments immediately sparked widespread revulsion on the social networking site, with hundreds of people describing her as “sick” and “disgusting”.

But just hours after the news of the tragedy was reported, Miss Abdullah, who recently published a controversial book about paedophilia, took to her Twitter page to mock their deaths.

She wrote: “Is it really awful that I don't feel sympathy for anyone killed on a gap yaar? That's awful, right? Yes, I'm a terrible person.”

Moments later she wrote: “I actually smiled when I saw that they had double-barrelled surnames. Sociopathic?”

She was forced to post an apology an hour later after other Twitter users flooded her page with comments condemning her.

One wrote: “You really are the sickest person I have come across in a long time, I hope you get no work for the rest of your miserable life.”

Another wrote: “You are not sorry; you were just caught out. If you were sorry you wouldn't have Tweeted TWICE on the subject. You are vile.”

In a statement, Miss Abdullah said: "I'm very sorry about my thoughtless comments on Twitter this morning. I know how it feels to lose a loved one and can understand why people felt sickened by what I said. I apologise to everyone I offended, in particular the families involved."

full article here

[Imkah]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Welcome Newbie, you are quite correct. All condolences to family, friends and may the kids rest in peace. That said, to all you members of thaivisa: please do not rant about "another nail in the coffin" etc. 3 young lives are lost, families and friends are grieving, we do not as Wanderlust says know the reason. Contemplate the families, forget your grievances and stop repeating yourselves. What about a few moments of silence? Thank you.

[katana]

There was a bit in the Thai press about it.

Apparently the bus, from BKK's Khaosan Rd, containing mainly Korean and English passengers, had stopped at a petrol station in the early hours of Tuesday morning (28/06/11) on Phahon Yothin Road in Kamphaeng Phet's Khlong Khlung district to fill up and for the passengers to alight and have a meal.

The accident happened after they'd finished eating and the bus was pulling out from the station to head on to Chiang Mai. Another air-conditioned passenger bus from Sukothai, on it's way to BKK, collided with it. Five people died, including one of the drivers.

Fifteen people were injured and taken to hospital.

http://breakingnews.nationchannel.com/read.php?newsid=517267 (28/06/11).

[rscot]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

You seem to have missed the story on Tuesday describing this accident. One of those passenger truck drivers decided to pass cars on a down hill shoot, unfortunately for all involved he went to fast and could not get back in his proper lane in time to avoid hitting a bus. This accident was a direct result of poor driving standards, and anyone who has ever driven on a mountain road in Thailand knows that it is one of the most dangerous things to do here. Thai drivers pass on blind curves at high speeds (or just figure the on coming traffic lane is there to make the curve easier to take at high speeds sometimes). This was an entirely preventable incident, and my condolences to the families of all the victims. Oh and I like many of the commenters here I am sure have a Thai drivers license. I got mine here and went through the actual test/class. It is a joke. If you want to know that your not supposed to drive a tank down the road, but it's OK to drive a car without headlights, then go take the test. Seriously, that was on the exam.

When I took the test, it was legal to drive a tank down the road. Broken tail lights or a missing windshield were not legal. Additionally, I learned that you can have objects protruding from your vehicle up to 2.5 meters in any direction. Of course, the lanes in Thailand are wide enough to accommodate that so it's not really an issue...

Either way, i agree with you. Higher standards are needed. When you can ride your own motorbike to the test, and take it as many times as needed to pass, things might be too lax. On the flipside, the lack of regulation has its appeal. When I moved back to the states it took me months to re-register my car. No insurance, you can't register your car. No registration, you can't insure your car. Round and round we went until I finally convinced the insurance company to just do it.

[PatrickWard]

Bad news for the families .. my heart felt feelings go out to them .

you ask - .... no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

actually not quite true .. see below - UK :

Regulations have now been made which will extend requirements to fit seat belts to certain classes of vehicle registered on or after 1st October 2001. The regulations affect:

Buses, coaches and minibuses

These are passenger vehicles with more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat. This category covers all vehicles in the European M2 and M3 categories, including van conversions as well as purpose built vehicles.

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

[osiboy]

once again to any tourists coming to Thailand and doing alot of travelling , just remember travelling on the roads in Thailand is amongst the most dangerous in the world, Go somewhere else if you can

What are you talikg about??

'Go somewhere else if you can"

No matter how sad the situation, for some people, before all else, it's just another opportunity to bash Thailand. Accidents happen everywhere in the world.

It's especially sad when it's young people on what was probably an exciting adventure for them, but things like this could just as easily have happened if they remained in UK.

what a stupid statement !,...... NO,.................it could not just as easily of happened on the 5th safest roads in the world as opposed to some of the most dangerous in the world , bus drivers in the UK have tac-o-graphs , strict driving tests, and better roads and sense ,not to mention compulsory seat belts for the passengers ,.... wake up and smell the coffee !

[endure]

and some controversy in UK - from The Telegraph

Writer Kia Abdullah mocks death of gap year students on Twitter

Kia Abdullah, a writer for The Guardian, has sparked widespread condemnation after posting comments on Twitter in which she mocked the deaths of three gap year students in Thailand.

The 29-year-old British Bangladeshi indicated that she felt no sympathy for the three teenagers, who died in a bus crash in the early hours of Tuesday morning, because they were middle class.

What a vile creature this woman must be.

[osiboy]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I think you are missing the fundamentals of driving. You should always drive at a speed safe enough to stop safely. Hence, why if you are careful enough, you shouldn't need to swerve to miss a dog. Hence Mr. Idiot in his Porsche overtaking a stationary bus quick enough to cut someone in half in a previous tragic driving story was COMPLETELY IN THE WRONG. A head on collision like this is completely avoidable if people drive properly, pure and simple.

Forethought for where you are, what speed you are doing, and the situation around you are all part and parcel of driving, and the statistics prove that driving in Thailand is extremely dangerous in comparison with other parts of the world. Ths country is crying out for proper drivers education, but no one will commit to do it.

Do you seriously believe that education is the answer???? Try telling smokers, heavy drinkers and drug addicts that smoking and these other vices are damaging their body. Will they stop on account of you educating them - hardly likely!!! If they decide that they WANT to give these things up then you stand a chance.

Now you try telling Thai drivers that it is inherently dangerous if they drive fast or overtake on blind corners or not to take into account the prevailing weather conditions by driving accordingly, do you honestly believe that they are going to become model drivers after your "pearls of wisdom". Neither do I, I'm afraid (excuse me for answering for you) but there is really only one answer to consider here.

WHAT ???, .... how can you compare an addiction to bad driving ???,we drive for need ,want or pleasure ,not addiction.............. your argument is complete nonsense ! ,..... i know the dangers of smoking ,drinking and dangerous driving,.......... the only one i can control is my driving, i can go without a drink , but its just one of the few pleasures i have, so why should i ? .........and ive got a clean license after 30 yrs,....... dont know about my lungs or my liver !,..........as for drug addicts , are you serious ?????????, probably the worst answer i have ever seen on TV , GET A GRIP MAN , Babababoa

[housepainter]

Shame.

Edited July 1, 2011 by housepainter

[sydneyjed]

Decided to pull up stumps on the cheap,frequent mini=bus mode of transport after an incident last November ,when half way to Hua Hin our mini-bus driver had to swerve and break from the outside lane after a double trailer truck decided to attempt aright 'U' over the medium strip in front of us....That's me done with mini-buses..life's just too short as it is!

It does appear that people are jumping the gun, but ask yourself why? Fatal bus and minibus crashes are literally a weekly event here. Just a few months ago a total of 33 people died in 3 seperate crashes in a period of 2 weeks.

Anyone who drives here know how bad the driving standards are. I know my first thought was here we go again. Dangerous drivers and unfortunate passengers. That is my normal first reaction when these reports hit the media and so far I can't remember an occasion in the past 11 years when it was wrong........

I don't use buses anymore, nor will I let my family use them. I hired a bus and driver some years ago for when my UK family visited. I had to threaten the driver with cancellation of the 2 week hire because he was driving dangerously and would not listen to our protests. Hit em where it hurts - in the wallet. Just like they do everywhere else. Police the driving & fine the living daylightsd out of them!

I have two sons of a similar age, both of which have been to Thailand many times and loved it. My heart goes out to the parents

I have been reading here a lot and, unfortunately, all too often, the worst is assumed by most people. It is worse than back-seat driving or divan refereeing during a game. First, the only things known are what the reporters report. Then, these reportes are described here as less than "informative" and so on. Then, criticism about whatever can be conjured up about Thailand, drivers, laws, social norms and so on. It seems that, here, people writing really do not like Thailand. There seems to be blinders on such that, if it is not like back home (which it really is, if thought about icarefully, as people from all over the world die in accidents in England, Austrailia and the US as well as other nations in the entire world, which are not mentioned here at all). Unfortunately, the bias is all to clear and comments such as "go anywhere else you can [but not to Thailand]" are more demeaning to Thailand that I am grieviously disturbed. I would like to read more thoughtful comments rather than visceral reactions. There is too little analysis. I am going to do a little research on a few things, if I can, and put this in real perspective for people here so that they will be able to "get a grip" on reality about home as well as about Thailand.

[cup-O-coffee]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Not as funny as the donation box at the security, bag-check-in counter at Friendship Market that collects Bahts to help feed the poor, straving "Street Dogs".

On a serious note, condolences to the family and friends of the poor lads who lost their lives.

At the moment, I have nothing good to say about reporting in this country, and the bestial mentality of the natives towards human beings.

Yes, collisions happen all the time, everywhere around the world. It's more how the consequences of those collisions are handled that makes Thailand so low on the list of human decency and responsibility towards one's own actions. The "donation box" anecdote" proves that. What are we describing when one can be literally attacked by feral street dogs in this country, and the locals merely sit by and smile or laugh at the defensive antics of the person being attacked? Sometimes, it takes a smaller point to prove a larger one. It's the little things that reveal the larger truths.

Thais are nationalistic. They believe they are the best.

Thais are animists more than Buddhist. They revere things that violate human safety and compassion.

Thais use ethical and moral standards to justify the things they say and do, that in most developed countries would be frowned upon or even be a jail-able offense.

Maybe the family of the deceased should know these things before they get nothing but empty words from the government over the senseless loss of their family members.

This, of course, is merely my opinion, which is based upon frequent experiences and subjection. PLease forgive me for leaving out anything nice to say, but we are, after all, describing some possible meaning behind the loss of innocent lives.

[Moza]

RIP. 3 Young lives gone no winners in this news.

[kumsamut]

Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash: officials

LONDON (AFP) - Three British teenagers died in a bus crash while travelling through northern Thailand, officials in London said on Thursday.

The three young men, all 19 and from London, were killed when the coach they were travelling in collided with another bus early Tuesday as they headed for the northern city of Chiang Mai.

Bruno Melling-Firth, Conrad Quashie and Max Boomgaarden-Cook were taking time off to travel before going to university when they died in Khlong Khlung, Kamphaeng Phet province, a government source said.

A third Briton was injured in the crash and taken to hospital in Bangkok. British media reported that about 40 other passengers were hurt.

"We can confirm the death of three British nationals," said a Foreign Office statement.

"A further two British nationals were on board the bus. We are in contact with both -- one has some injuries and we have visited him in hospital in Bangkok and are providing assistance."

The teenagers were school friends and been saving for months for the trip, London's Evening Standard newspaper reported. They flew out to Thailand from London Heathrow airport on Thursday last week, it added.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-07-01

Thailand has potential to have good roads and better trains with newly elected government.

[Goanna]

This was one of my experiences with a thai bus. I woudn't even do this in a car

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I think you are missing the fundamentals of driving. You should always drive at a speed safe enough to stop safely. Hence, why if you are careful enough, you shouldn't need to swerve to miss a dog. Hence Mr. Idiot in his Porsche overtaking a stationary bus quick enough to cut someone in half in a previous tragic driving story was COMPLETELY IN THE WRONG. A head on collision like this is completely avoidable if people drive properly, pure and simple.

Forethought for where you are, what speed you are doing, and the situation around you are all part and parcel of driving, and the statistics prove that driving in Thailand is extremely dangerous in comparison with other parts of the world. Ths country is crying out for proper drivers education, but no one will commit to do it.

Do you seriously believe that education is the answer???? Try telling smokers, heavy drinkers and drug addicts that smoking and these other vices are damaging their body. Will they stop on account of you educating them - hardly likely!!! If they decide that they WANT to give these things up then you stand a chance.

Now you try telling Thai drivers that it is inherently dangerous if they drive fast or overtake on blind corners or not to take into account the prevailing weather conditions by driving accordingly, do you honestly believe that they are going to become model drivers after your "pearls of wisdom". Neither do I, I'm afraid (excuse me for answering for you) but there is really only one answer to consider here.

WHAT ???, .... how can you compare an addiction to bad driving ???,we drive for need ,want or pleasure ,not addiction.............. your argument is complete nonsense ! ,..... i know the dangers of smoking ,drinking and dangerous driving,.......... the only one i can control is my driving, i can go without a drink , but its just one of the few pleasures i have, so why should i ? .........and ive got a clean license after 30 yrs,....... dont know about my lungs or my liver !,..........as for drug addicts , are you serious ?????????, probably the worst answer i have ever seen on TV , GET A GRIP MAN , Babababoa

I know that these are all addictions. I was using them more as a principled argument to elucidate that I do not see education as being the answer for tackling the problem, thats all!! OK, change these to eating Hamburgers and fries or drinking Coca Cola as I imagine that that you are from the US taking into account your hysterical reaction to my posting whereby you have "got the wrong end of the stick" I'm afraid.

Everybody knows (well should know) that these are silent killers, right!! Americans have a severe obesity problem and so many of them die of heart related illnesses. There must be plenty of health educationalists jumping on the band waggon in trying to fix this problem as Americans are good at this when they see an opportunity to make money out of someone elses misfortune, right? Then why are there still so many fat Americans still out there? The simple reason is that they like to eat all of these fat and sugar laden foods that taste nice which unfortunately seems to be their national cuisine. So education doesn't seem to have help the dilemma (maybe you will claim that eating food in America is an addiction of sorts).

On to my point, Thai drivers are used to and like driving like maniacs (just like the Americans with their dud dietary failings) so do you seriously think that saying to them " come on chaps, don't you understand that this kind of driving on the roads is dangerous and irresponsible so from now on you must drive slowly, stop overtaking cars on the inside and refrain from driving the wrong way up the road" Will they listen to this advice, hell no!!! They will jump in their car and go "hell for leather" down the road dancing in and around the other cars that are blocking their way and think if I die then "mai pen rai" and hope that buddha is protecting them.

Understand my point of view now??? No addictions or drugs to cloud the argument - just illustrating my point in a different way to express my feelings that education won't help the matter one jot!!!

Bring in those 2 laws that I mentioned about not overtaking on the inside and traveling up the road the wrong way - and enforce them rigidly by making them pay heavy fines if they do not comply. One last point, the fines must be collected, not by police officers but by a body or court that is clean and transparent with the police just giving out the notices. This money can then be used to compensate families who have lost members through road accidents (only if they are deemed to be the innocent party when it comes to fatalities). Thai's won't listen to "nanny state" education but they will when they have to part with hard earned cash!!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Not as funny as the donation box at the security, bag-check-in counter at Friendship Market that collects Bahts to help feed the poor, straving "Street Dogs".

On a serious note, condolences to the family and friends of the poor lads who lost their lives.

At the moment, I have nothing good to say about reporting in this country, and the bestial mentality of the natives towards human beings.

Yes, collisions happen all the time, everywhere around the world. It's more how the consequences of those collisions are handled that makes Thailand so low on the list of human decency and responsibility towards one's own actions. The "donation box" anecdote" proves that. What are we describing when one can be literally attacked by feral street dogs in this country, and the locals merely sit by and smile or laugh at the defensive antics of the person being attacked? Sometimes, it takes a smaller point to prove a larger one. It's the little things that reveal the larger truths.

Thais are nationalistic. They believe they are the best.

Thais are animists more than Buddhist. They revere things that violate human safety and compassion.

Thais use ethical and moral standards to justify the things they say and do, that in most developed countries would be frowned upon or even be a jail-able offense.

Maybe the family of the deceased should know these things before they get nothing but empty words from the government over the senseless loss of their family members.

This, of course, is merely my opinion, which is based upon frequent experiences and subjection. PLease forgive me for leaving out anything nice to say, but we are, after all, describing some possible meaning behind the loss of innocent lives.

Excuse me for asking, but where do you live???

If you live in Thailand as I imagine you do.......then can I ask a supplementary question and that's WHY????

[SICHONSTEVE]

Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash: officials

LONDON (AFP) - Three British teenagers died in a bus crash while travelling through northern Thailand, officials in London said on Thursday.

The three young men, all 19 and from London, were killed when the coach they were travelling in collided with another bus early Tuesday as they headed for the northern city of Chiang Mai.

Bruno Melling-Firth, Conrad Quashie and Max Boomgaarden-Cook were taking time off to travel before going to university when they died in Khlong Khlung, Kamphaeng Phet province, a government source said.

A third Briton was injured in the crash and taken to hospital in Bangkok. British media reported that about 40 other passengers were hurt.

"We can confirm the death of three British nationals," said a Foreign Office statement.

"A further two British nationals were on board the bus. We are in contact with both -- one has some injuries and we have visited him in hospital in Bangkok and are providing assistance."

The teenagers were school friends and been saving for months for the trip, London's Evening Standard newspaper reported. They flew out to Thailand from London Heathrow airport on Thursday last week, it added.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-07-01

Thailand has potential to have good roads and better trains with newly elected government.

Yeh right!!!!! you are kidding aren't you???

These are simply a pre-election gimmicks, can't you see that. If they brought into being all the new programmes and expenditure that they are promising, such as the "new city" on reclaimed marshland just outside of BKK - called Shinnawatra city no doubt which would get to be about 10% completed before shelving it - in just the same way that parts of the expressway in Bangkok are simply pillars with nothing on top when the money ran dry. They promise the earth but deliver nothing as this almost immediately gets forgotten once the new government has been chosen and formed!!

They need better and enforcable laws on driving in Thailand with heavy penalties for not complying with them as adeterrant to make them change their driving practices - not new roads and trains!!

[Seri]

It all starts with the standard driving exam and the quality of the instructors.

I had to get 40 hours of lessons with each hour costing a fortune and I had to pass the test twice having failed the first time.

Sadly this standard will never come to Thailand for the same reason you can eat a good meal for one euro.

People can't afford it.

[osiboy]

Do you seriously believe that education is the answer???? Try telling smokers, heavy drinkers and drug addicts that smoking and these other vices are damaging their body. Will they stop on account of you educating them - hardly likely!!! If they decide that they WANT to give these things up then you stand a chance.

Now you try telling Thai drivers that it is inherently dangerous if they drive fast or overtake on blind corners or not to take into account the prevailing weather conditions by driving accordingly, do you honestly believe that they are going to become model drivers after your "pearls of wisdom". Neither do I, I'm afraid (excuse me for answering for you) but there is really only one answer to consider here.

WHAT ???, .... how can you compare an addiction to bad driving ???,we drive for need ,want or pleasure ,not addiction.............. your argument is complete nonsense ! ,..... i know the dangers of smoking ,drinking and dangerous driving,.......... the only one i can control is my driving, i can go without a drink , but its just one of the few pleasures i have, so why should i ? .........and ive got a clean license after 30 yrs,....... dont know about my lungs or my liver !,..........as for drug addicts , are you serious ?????????, probably the worst answer i have ever seen on TV , GET A GRIP MAN , Babababoa

I know that these are all addictions. I was using them more as a principled argument to elucidate that I do not see education as being the answer for tackling the problem, thats all!! OK, change these to eating Hamburgers and fries or drinking Coca Cola as I imagine that that you are from the US taking into account your hysterical reaction to my posting whereby you have "got the wrong end of the stick" I'm afraid.

Everybody knows (well should know) that these are silent killers, right!! Americans have a severe obesity problem and so many of them die of heart related illnesses. There must be plenty of health educationalists jumping on the band waggon in trying to fix this problem as Americans are good at this when they see an opportunity to make money out of someone elses misfortune, right? Then why are there still so many fat Americans still out there? The simple reason is that they like to eat all of these fat and sugar laden foods that taste nice which unfortunately seems to be their national cuisine. So education doesn't seem to have help the dilemma (maybe you will claim that eating food in America is an addiction of sorts).

On to my point, Thai drivers are used to and like driving like maniacs (just like the Americans with their dud dietary failings) so do you seriously think that saying to them " come on chaps, don't you understand that this kind of driving on the roads is dangerous and irresponsible so from now on you must drive slowly, stop overtaking cars on the inside and refrain from driving the wrong way up the road" Will they listen to this advice, hell no!!! They will jump in their car and go "hell for leather" down the road dancing in and around the other cars that are blocking their way and think if I die then "mai pen rai" and hope that buddha is protecting them.

Understand my point of view now??? No addictions or drugs to cloud the argument - just illustrating my point in a different way to express my feelings that education won't help the matter one jot!!!

Bring in those 2 laws that I mentioned about not overtaking on the inside and traveling up the road the wrong way - and enforce them rigidly by making them pay heavy fines if they do not comply. One last point, the fines must be collected, not by police officers but by a body or court that is clean and transparent with the police just giving out the notices. This money can then be used to compensate families who have lost members through road accidents (only if they are deemed to be the innocent party when it comes to fatalities). Thai's won't listen to "nanny state" education but they will when they have to part with hard earned cash!!!

mmmmm , yeah,... i understand your point ,... even if you are still way off the mark, and the fact that you obviously like to exaggerate makes me think that you are the american

i'm certainly not,.......what did i say to make you think i was "hysterical"?, it looks like YOU are the guy going "off on one", i merely retorted to a rediculous comparison that you have now backed down from, and now you are making another rediculous suggestion, ...........do you realy think the police will just hand out notices ??? don't you know how the police do things here ?? if you did you would know its such a laughable suggestion and with the amount of offences commited the already over burdened courts would find it impossible to deal with even 5% of these offences and the police would be working for their salary of around 10,000b pm only......not to mention all the non-payments to chase up,.....NO,i dont think saying "come on chaps don't you think this type of driving is dangerous" would help, AND I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT !, If you are interested in what i think would be a far better constructive solution to the dangers of thai drivers let me know, .............but it WILL include education , hope this wont offend you as education is clearly against your principles .

[SICHONSTEVE]

It all starts with the standard driving exam and the quality of the instructors.

I had to get 40 hours of lessons with each hour costing a fortune and I had to pass the test twice having failed the first time.

Sadly this standard will never come to Thailand for the same reason you can eat a good meal for one euro.

People can't afford it.

Its got absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the instructors or instruction. Once they have learned how to drive they can drive. Its purely their mentality and attitude towards driving that needs to be improved. Lets face it, how many people drive like robots during the test and then revert to how they feel comfortable when driving having got their license??? Do you hold the steering wheel with 2 hands all the time whilst shuffling it through your fingers whilst turning. Do you check your mirror every 10 seconds or keep to the speed limits religiously. I doubt it very much. Well Thai's, as Thai's, drive like Thai's and that is fast and dangerously without due consideration to others - its just their way I'm afraid and making them pass real tests would make no difference to how they drive once they get behind that wheel!!!.

[billd766]

There was a bit in the Thai press about it.

Apparently the bus, from BKK's Khaosan Rd, containing mainly Korean and English passengers, had stopped at a petrol station in the early hours of Tuesday morning (28/06/11) on Phahon Yothin Road in Kamphaeng Phet's Khlong Khlung district to fill up and for the passengers to alight and have a meal.

The accident happened after they'd finished eating and the bus was pulling out from the station to head on to Chiang Mai. Another air-conditioned passenger bus from Sukothai, on it's way to BKK, collided with it. Five people died, including one of the drivers.

Fifteen people were injured and taken to hospital.

http://breakingnews.nationchannel.com/read.php?newsid=517267 (28/06/11).

From what I can gather from the news report translated (garbled) by Google translate this bus was pulling out from a pit stop BUT on the southbound carriageway ie towards BKK and not heading north presumably going to the next U turn to go north again.

I find this a bit odd as the pit stops on that highway are normally open 24/7.

There seems to be no damage to the back of the bus and it is nose first to the left in the ditch by the pit stop.

I can only assume that the bus was hit near the front by the other bus and spun off into the klong.

[Card]

Well it's slower and safer that's for sure but a good book/newspaper and sometimes good company at least means you can relax and not worry...it's certainly stress free in comparison!

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

The article stated that it was a 'head-on' collision. Due to brake failure? Avoiding an animal (even a water buffalo?)? I'd say either poor judgment in passing, driving too fast for conditions, a blowout, driver inattentive or asleep. Someone or something screwed-up - more likely someone.

Take the train it's more fun and it's safer !!!!

I used to take the train every time I went to Chiang Mai and thought it was great at the time. However, when i discovered the 24 seater VIP buses I completely changed and have never travelled on the trains since then and that is almost 10 years ago. The trains are noisy, juddery and to CM only operate overnight when I hate travelling, as it requires a very uncomfortable couchette. The VIP buses are quiet, clean, well-serviced, include free food and drinks, cheaper, faster than the trains and you can chose day or night trips. So much better than the trains. I do admit the trains would appear to be safer but I've never had any safety problems so far with the buses - maybe I'm lucky but I make sure I keep my seat belt on. This does not, however, apply to the minibuses, which I now never travel on, and the older buses to Pattaya are also suspect.