Thaksin 'Clone' Frontrunner To Be Thai PM

tonbridgebrit · July 4, 2011

What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics. Then, and only then, will Thailand go forward. After all, Thailand can only be run by the Thais themselves.

excuse me.... tonbridgebrit....

what do you know about chinese people.... in thailand....?

what do you really know about chinese people in thai politics....?

..... where on this good earth, did you get the idea about thailand can only be run by the thais themselves....

you are a brit.... as you claim to be.... which side of the track are you from....?

you are probably 50 years backward....

wake up.... ' rip van bit ' ....

it is now.... 2011.... THERE IS NO CHINESE RUNNING THAI GOVT.... they are all thai.... for your info.... < stupid me.... >

Again, I say sorry if I upset you. Okay, what do I know about Chinese people in Thailand ? The landlady of the small hotel I stay at here is a nice Chinese-Thai lady. I know she is Chinese, because there is Chinese writing in her small 'office' and she is of the same race/ethnic group as the married couple who have got a medium sized Chinese restaurant that I eat in near my home in England. Yes, like most Chinese-Thais, she doesn't like to say she is Chinese, but she will say it if people put enough pressure on her. off-course, I have spoken to many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, I have lived mainly in Thailand for many years now.

What do I know about Chinese people in Thai politics ? Well, I certainly do not claim to have drunk tea or coffee with any big-time politicians ! We all know Thailand has a rigid hierachy system, such upper-class people would never sit around a table with a non-important person like myself !

Why do I think Thailand can only be run by the Thais themselves ? Okay, what I mean is, is that the big politicians appear to all be drawn from the ethnic Chinese community here in Thailand. Very few of the big politicians are Thai-Thai people. Don't forget, the majority of people in Thailand are not Chinese, they are Thai-Thai and are mainly un-skilled or semi-skilled workers (called working class in Britain). Thailand needs political leadership/leaders drawn from this majority ethnic/social group (this group is made up of Thai-Thai people). Looking at Thai politics, surely, we all agree that nearly all the powerfull politicians are Chinese. Yes, Thaksin himself has often been referred to (by mainstream media) as a Chinese-Thai, ethnic Chinese, Thai with Chinese ancestry, etc, all these terms mean the same thing. And the yellow shirts ? Nearly all of the senior yellow shirts are Chinese, that's because (as repeated by mainstream media, and a few people on Thai visa ) the yellow shirt movement is basically a body that represents the middle-class Chinese-Thais in Bangkok. The yellow shirt movement has been successfull in attracting other people to support them, but we all smirk and joke about "Did you notice that after the yellow shirt rally, the demonstrators were well-behaved and went home in their new Hondas, and nice BMW/Mercedes cars".

So basically, the leadership of the red shirts, and the leadership of the yellow shirts (infact, the very people that the yellow shirt movement was set up to represent), BOTH these leaderships do not represent the true majority group of Thailand. We need to see people who are drawn from this majority group (the working class, the Thai-Thai, not the Chinese) becoming the new political leaders of Thailand. And then, only then, will Thailand progress and become a nation with equality, fairness, and dignity.

i could have kicked myself for posting those questions to you....

darn it.... you are a nice guy/gal.... who took time out.... to respond.... i admire your effort very much....

just for you info.... there is a big different in growing up in a thai and a chinese family environ....

in a thai family, parents do love their children immensely.... allowing their children plenty of time to grow up at their own rate and development.... whereas in a chinese family, kids get up early in the morning, whether you like it or not.... and they are shipped off to school with stern order to pay attention to everything teachers have to say.... and to behave themselves without flaw.... in order not to bring shame to their family name--wong.... LOL

did you finish your school work already? no! not yet! what are you trying to do to me and your father? go right now.... to finish your homework.... when i was your age, grandpa and grandma da da da.... lol

you can not go to bed yet! you need to put away all your books and your clothes.... and pack your two school bags.... for heavens sake, you are in first grade now.... there is not much time in the morning.... and tomorrow is ah-ma day off.... no body is going to help you get ready.... so you better get ready now, ok?

ring.... ring.... ring.... it is 5 o'clock already..... get up you all.... get your twin brother up too.... we have to leave the house at 5:30, so we can catch the first train to school at 6 sharp....

and every week day, this routine remains unchange....

whereas in most thai families.... mom comes and watch this.... it is so funny.... look at pra-ache (main actor).... he puts on women dresses looking so funny.... it is so much fun watching this series....

oh, well, as for myself.... sorry.... i got to go and teach my chinese monkeys, named ah-so and soo-soo some more sign language.... so they can plug more coconuts tomorrow.... bye....:jap:

just for your personal info.... the yellow shirt movement and particularly the leader, sonthi, he uses his personal fortune to fund the rally almost to the last million.... i feel very sympathetic toward his personal quest.... which is vastly different from the redshirt movement.... where its leaders were paid handsomely from abroad.... only the most stupid current thai govt and apisit would allow such illegal transaction to take place.... flaming thailand and her citizen.... ok, this time it is good bye for sure.... cheers

You mentioned that I took some time out to respond to your comment, well, I thank you for using your time and effort to respond to my comment. I think that the stereo-type image regarding Chinese-Thai and Thai-Thai people that you have mentioned might be true, it does, off-course, make all of us smirk a lttle bit. I did not realise that Sonthi (the yellow shirt leader ) used his own fortune to fund the/their rallies. I must admit, I have not read up the recent news regarding the yellow shirts. I know the media claimed that the yellow shirts criticised Abhisit for being too slow and weak at dealing with the Red shirt demonstrators/rioters in central Bangkok last year. And, off-course, I remember that the yellow shirts bringing the airport to a standstill in 2008 happened just before Abhisit came to power. Am I too aggresive if I say that Abhisit is in power BECAUSE of the yellow shirts ? A friend tells me that recently, a rift or large gap has developed between Abhisit and the yellow shirts. And I remember about newspaper reports (an opinion from a journalist) about how the yellow shirts were involved in the border dispute with Cambodia, AND that this was being done because the yellow shirts were realising that their influence on Abhisit was becoming less and less, hence, they deliberately got involved in the Cambodia border dispute to get back into the public limelight. Is any of this, from your opinion, true ?

tonbridgebrit · July 4, 2011

What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics. Then, and only then, will Thailand go forward. After all, Thailand can only be run by the Thais themselves.

excuse me.... tonbridgebrit....

what do you know about chinese people.... in thailand....?

what do you really know about chinese people in thai politics....?

..... where on this good earth, did you get the idea about thailand can only be run by the thais themselves....

you are a brit.... as you claim to be.... which side of the track are you from....?

you are probably 50 years backward....

wake up.... ' rip van bit ' ....

it is now.... 2011.... THERE IS NO CHINESE RUNNING THAI GOVT.... they are all thai.... for your info.... < stupid me.... >

Again, I say sorry if I upset you. Okay, what do I know about Chinese people in Thailand ? The landlady of the small hotel I stay at here is a nice Chinese-Thai lady. I know she is Chinese, because there is Chinese writing in her small 'office' and she is of the same race/ethnic group as the married couple who have got a medium sized Chinese restaurant that I eat in near my home in England. Yes, like most Chinese-Thais, she doesn't like to say she is Chinese, but she will say it if people put enough pressure on her. off-course, I have spoken to many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, I have lived mainly in Thailand for many years now.

What do I know about Chinese people in Thai politics ? Well, I certainly do not claim to have drunk tea or coffee with any big-time politicians ! We all know Thailand has a rigid hierachy system, such upper-class people would never sit around a table with a non-important person like myself !

Why do I think Thailand can only be run by the Thais themselves ? Okay, what I mean is, is that the big politicians appear to all be drawn from the ethnic Chinese community here in Thailand. Very few of the big politicians are Thai-Thai people. Don't forget, the majority of people in Thailand are not Chinese, they are Thai-Thai and are mainly un-skilled or semi-skilled workers (called working class in Britain). Thailand needs political leadership/leaders drawn from this majority ethnic/social group (this group is made up of Thai-Thai people). Looking at Thai politics, surely, we all agree that nearly all the powerfull politicians are Chinese. Yes, Thaksin himself has often been referred to (by mainstream media) as a Chinese-Thai, ethnic Chinese, Thai with Chinese ancestry, etc, all these terms mean the same thing. And the yellow shirts ? Nearly all of the senior yellow shirts are Chinese, that's because (as repeated by mainstream media, and a few people on Thai visa ) the yellow shirt movement is basically a body that represents the middle-class Chinese-Thais in Bangkok. The yellow shirt movement has been successfull in attracting other people to support them, but we all smirk and joke about "Did you notice that after the yellow shirt rally, the demonstrators were well-behaved and went home in their new Hondas, and nice BMW/Mercedes cars".

So basically, the leadership of the red shirts, and the leadership of the yellow shirts (infact, the very people that the yellow shirt movement was set up to represent), BOTH these leaderships do not represent the true majority group of Thailand. We need to see people who are drawn from this majority group (the working class, the Thai-Thai, not the Chinese) becoming the new political leaders of Thailand. And then, only then, will Thailand progress and become a nation with equality, fairness, and dignity.

Yes, deport them to China! Um , wait a second. These Chinese people to which you are insinuating are running the Thai government have a Thai birth certificate and passport? So it's not the color of the shirt that seems to be the issue ? You know every one comes from some where, right? I thought they were all Thai people. They have come out with a cure for zenaphobia and it's called education, take a big injection!

Dear Foodlover. I did not ask for the deportation of any people to China !! Did I insinuate that Chinese people are running the Thai government ? Actually, I said that ALL the powerfull poltical leaders in Thailand are Chinese (Chinese-Thai, ethnic Chinese, people of Chinese ancestry, Chinese, the media uses all these words to mean the same thing !). I can make everybody/anybody reading this smirk or laugh by claiming "Have you noticed that all the people you see who are Thailand's leading polticians (you can see them on television, they are there for all to see, they are not a secret hidden group !!) look the same as the people who work and have restaurants in London's Chinatown ?". Is there a problem with a nation whose leading politicians are all drawn from a minority ethnic group from that country ? How would it look if South Africa had all it's leading politicians drawn from a minority ethnic group ? As in, if all of South Africa's senior polticians were so-called 'white', bearing in mind that the majority of the people are so-called 'black' and dare I say, these 'black people' are 'indigenous' to that country. I think most of us cannot even begin to imagine a United Kingdom where all the leading polticians are drawn from ethnic minority groups ! This is because the concept or image of Britain having all it's leading polticians being from an ethnic minority group/groups is far too absurd for us to imagine !! Xenophobia is resentment to 'foreigners', the Chinese have been in Thailand for just as long or longer than people of European ancestry being in USA, Australia, etc !!! The Chinese are not foreigners in Thailand !! As for education, if ALL Thais had the same education, well, we wouldn't be seeing ALL of Thailand's leading polticians drawn from one ethnic group !! If all Thais had the same good quality education, then, Thailand's poltical leaders would/might actually accurately be a fair and true representation of Thailand and Thai people !!

FOODLOVER · July 4, 2011

Dear TONBRIDGEBRIT,

"Did I insinuate that Chinese people are running the Thai government "? yes

" Looking at Thai politics, surely, we all agree that nearly all the powerful politicians are Chinese."

Xenophobia is defined as the "hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture" Cant spell it but understand the concept and thank you for your definition. Do you not think that reconciliation should start with bringing Thais together or push them apart because 100 years ago some one came from China? Do you think a Thai Thai is less corruptible? You may want to take a closer look at the stereo type you have been fed about Chinese Thai, especially with the younger populations that are now graduating from university. I'm talking about the real Chinese Thais that are the majority of Chinese Thai here and the fact that they work their asses off to get where they are going. Whomever is honest and best for Thailand should be elected not because of their racial profile. Thailand is very xenophobic and with the attitude that some one must have pure blood lines has been tried before but did not work out to well. But it seems strange that all the Thai Thai people voted for a super rich Chinese- Thai. Cheers

tonbridgebrit · July 5, 2011

Dear TONBRIDGEBRIT,

"Did I insinuate that Chinese people are running the Thai government "? yes

" Looking at Thai politics, surely, we all agree that nearly all the powerful politicians are Chinese."

Xenophobia is defined as the "hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture" Cant spell it but understand the concept and thank you for your definition. Do you not think that reconciliation should start with bringing Thais together or push them apart because 100 years ago some one came from China? Do you think a Thai Thai is less corruptible? You may want to take a closer look at the stereo type you have been fed about Chinese Thai, especially with the younger populations that are now graduating from university. I'm talking about the real Chinese Thais that are the majority of Chinese Thai here and the fact that they work their asses off to get where they are going. Whomever is honest and best for Thailand should be elected not because of their racial profile. Thailand is very xenophobic and with the attitude that some one must have pure blood lines has been tried before but did not work out to well. But it seems strange that all the Thai Thai people voted for a super rich Chinese- Thai. Cheers

Yes, I agree with your definition of xenophobia, it seems to be the same as my definition of it ! About people being corruptible, I think you average Thai-Thai bloke is just as honest/dis-honest as your average Chinese-Thai bloke ! About the "stereo type I have been fed about Chinese Thai", well, so you agree with the image that "VONT" produced ? I still smirk at the stereo type image we have of Chinese-Thais, and I think it's partially true.

It's also true that most of us accept that being lucky enough to be born into a rich family means your chances of going to university and being able to get where you're going to have increased greatly. This is still partially true in Britain, but we all know it's very true in Thailand. Unfortunately, the vast bulk of the Thai-Thais are born poor, and will stay that way.

You mentioned about Thailand being very xenophobic, well, okay, the laws regarding land ownership, getting Thai citizenship, etc are far more restrictive here in Thailand than in Britain or the USA. But when you look at Thai people, I think they are far more tolerant of us than we are of foreigners back home in England. We must remember, in England back in the 1980s and before, young men going into a 'Pakistani corner shop' and giving the shop owner grief (as in pay for some goods with a ten pound note, get the change back, then tell him that a twenty pound note had been handed over 30 seconds ago and not a tenner, and call him a 'Paki' whilst demanding the supposed correct change) was not actually that rare a thing. We must bear in mind that very few of us here get racial abuse purely because of who or what we are. Most of us who get grief get it because of some reason, like shagging some Thai bloke's wife bearing in mind that the Thai bloke didn't know his wife/girlfriend was 'hanging around in the bars'!.

Okay, one more point ! So it's strange that the Thai Thai people have voted for a super rich Chinese-Thai. I can say with a smirk, well, that's because there aren't any major politicians out there who are drawn from the rural poor and who represent the rural poor (the unskilled and semi-skilled workers, the rural labourers, the working class, call them what you want !). And you can only be a powerfull poltician IF you had the rich family to start of with, and you are rich today as well !! Thank you for your response, Foodlover.

FOODLOVER · July 7, 2011

Dear TONBRIDGEBRIT,

"Did I insinuate that Chinese people are running the Thai government "? yes

" Looking at Thai politics, surely, we all agree that nearly all the powerful politicians are Chinese."

Xenophobia is defined as the "hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture" Cant spell it but understand the concept and thank you for your definition. Do you not think that reconciliation should start with bringing Thais together or push them apart because 100 years ago some one came from China? Do you think a Thai Thai is less corruptible? You may want to take a closer look at the stereo type you have been fed about Chinese Thai, especially with the younger populations that are now graduating from university. I'm talking about the real Chinese Thais that are the majority of Chinese Thai here and the fact that they work their asses off to get where they are going. Whomever is honest and best for Thailand should be elected not because of their racial profile. Thailand is very xenophobic and with the attitude that some one must have pure blood lines has been tried before but did not work out to well. But it seems strange that all the Thai Thai people voted for a super rich Chinese- Thai. Cheers

Yes, I agree with your definition of xenophobia, it seems to be the same as my definition of it ! About people being corruptible, I think you average Thai-Thai bloke is just as honest/dis-honest as your average Chinese-Thai bloke ! About the "stereo type I have been fed about Chinese Thai", well, so you agree with the image that "VONT" produced ? I still smirk at the stereo type image we have of Chinese-Thais, and I think it's partially true.

It's also true that most of us accept that being lucky enough to be born into a rich family means your chances of going to university and being able to get where you're going to have increased greatly. This is still partially true in Britain, but we all know it's very true in Thailand. Unfortunately, the vast bulk of the Thai-Thais are born poor, and will stay that way.

You mentioned about Thailand being very xenophobic, well, okay, the laws regarding land ownership, getting Thai citizenship, etc are far more restrictive here in Thailand than in Britain or the USA. But when you look at Thai people, I think they are far more tolerant of us than we are of foreigners back home in England. We must remember, in England back in the 1980s and before, young men going into a 'Pakistani corner shop' and giving the shop owner grief (as in pay for some goods with a ten pound note, get the change back, then tell him that a twenty pound note had been handed over 30 seconds ago and not a tenner, and call him a 'Paki' whilst demanding the supposed correct change) was not actually that rare a thing. We must bear in mind that very few of us here get racial abuse purely because of who or what we are. Most of us who get grief get it because of some reason, like shagging some Thai bloke's wife bearing in mind that the Thai bloke didn't know his wife/girlfriend was 'hanging around in the bars'!.

Okay, one more point ! So it's strange that the Thai Thai people have voted for a super rich Chinese-Thai. I can say with a smirk, well, that's because there aren't any major politicians out there who are drawn from the rural poor and who represent the rural poor (the unskilled and semi-skilled workers, the rural labourers, the working class, call them what you want !). And you can only be a powerfull poltician IF you had the rich family to start of with, and you are rich today as well !! Thank you for your response, Foodlover.

I am from the States but can understand the "Paki" thing since i was born in bred in the southwestern state of Texas, which makes me American-American-Danish-German.(Kind of a racist history with red necks and all)

We now have specific laws that are put in place to protect minorities. Crimes against gays or targeting anyone specifically because of race or gender or sexual preference and or ideals has a mandatory minimum of 5-10 depending on aggravated factors. They do not have this here.

" How would it look if South Africa had all it's leading politicians drawn from a minority ethnic group" ?

Like an oreo cookie.

"-What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai politics. Then, and only then, will Thailand go forward. After all, Thailand can only be run by the Thais themselves."

There are no Chinese people in Thai politics. Only Thai people.

"You mentioned about Thailand being very xenophobic, well, okay, the laws regarding land ownership, getting Thai citizenship, etc are far more restrictive here in Thailand than in Britain or the USA. But when you look at Thai people, I think they are far more tolerant of us than we are of foreigners back home in England".

Your etc. must be a very long list, as for tolerance? Yes they do tolerate us but that's about it.

Reconciliation (ethnic relations), restoring mutual respect between individuals from different cultural backgrounds

I think your ideals do not promote this.

People can work hard here and achieve. I see it every day. There are jobs here and as a matter of fact my wife has trained many TT people who would be very qualified to go into politics. Accountants lawyers and such. Why don't they ? Maybe too smart. I also think that the people living in the rural areas are obviously disadvantaged because of thier local which would keep them from getting the proper education and therefore keeping them out of the political arena. Not because of race. I do not argue the fact that there are some chinese thai families like you have stated but i have not seen this nor have i seen it in any of the chinese thai families that we consort with.

Or my wifes been yanking my chain with her "invisible hands". anythings possible in Thailand

Edited July 7, 2011 by FOODLOVER

tonbridgebrit · July 8, 2011

Dear TONBRIDGEBRIT,

"Did I insinuate that Chinese people are running the Thai government "? yes

" Looking at Thai politics, surely, we all agree that nearly all the powerful politicians are Chinese."

Xenophobia is defined as the "hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture" Cant spell it but understand the concept and thank you for your definition. Do you not think that reconciliation should start with bringing Thais together or push them apart because 100 years ago some one came from China? Do you think a Thai Thai is less corruptible? You may want to take a closer look at the stereo type you have been fed about Chinese Thai, especially with the younger populations that are now graduating from university. I'm talking about the real Chinese Thais that are the majority of Chinese Thai here and the fact that they work their asses off to get where they are going. Whomever is honest and best for Thailand should be elected not because of their racial profile. Thailand is very xenophobic and with the attitude that some one must have pure blood lines has been tried before but did not work out to well. But it seems strange that all the Thai Thai people voted for a super rich Chinese- Thai. Cheers

Yes, I agree with your definition of xenophobia, it seems to be the same as my definition of it ! About people being corruptible, I think you average Thai-Thai bloke is just as honest/dis-honest as your average Chinese-Thai bloke ! About the "stereo type I have been fed about Chinese Thai", well, so you agree with the image that "VONT" produced ? I still smirk at the stereo type image we have of Chinese-Thais, and I think it's partially true.

It's also true that most of us accept that being lucky enough to be born into a rich family means your chances of going to university and being able to get where you're going to have increased greatly. This is still partially true in Britain, but we all know it's very true in Thailand. Unfortunately, the vast bulk of the Thai-Thais are born poor, and will stay that way.

You mentioned about Thailand being very xenophobic, well, okay, the laws regarding land ownership, getting Thai citizenship, etc are far more restrictive here in Thailand than in Britain or the USA. But when you look at Thai people, I think they are far more tolerant of us than we are of foreigners back home in England. We must remember, in England back in the 1980s and before, young men going into a 'Pakistani corner shop' and giving the shop owner grief (as in pay for some goods with a ten pound note, get the change back, then tell him that a twenty pound note had been handed over 30 seconds ago and not a tenner, and call him a 'Paki' whilst demanding the supposed correct change) was not actually that rare a thing. We must bear in mind that very few of us here get racial abuse purely because of who or what we are. Most of us who get grief get it because of some reason, like shagging some Thai bloke's wife bearing in mind that the Thai bloke didn't know his wife/girlfriend was 'hanging around in the bars'!.

Okay, one more point ! So it's strange that the Thai Thai people have voted for a super rich Chinese-Thai. I can say with a smirk, well, that's because there aren't any major politicians out there who are drawn from the rural poor and who represent the rural poor (the unskilled and semi-skilled workers, the rural labourers, the working class, call them what you want !). And you can only be a powerfull poltician IF you had the rich family to start of with, and you are rich today as well !! Thank you for your response, Foodlover.

I am from the States but can understand the "Paki" thing since i was born in bred in the southwestern state of Texas, which makes me American-American-Danish-German.(Kind of a racist history with red necks and all)

We now have specific laws that are put in place to protect minorities. Crimes against gays or targeting anyone specifically because of race or gender or sexual preference and or ideals has a mandatory minimum of 5-10 depending on aggravated factors. They do not have this here.

" How would it look if South Africa had all it's leading politicians drawn from a minority ethnic group" ?

Like an oreo cookie.

"-What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai politics. Then, and only then, will Thailand go forward. After all, Thailand can only be run by the Thais themselves."

There are no Chinese people in Thai politics. Only Thai people.

"You mentioned about Thailand being very xenophobic, well, okay, the laws regarding land ownership, getting Thai citizenship, etc are far more restrictive here in Thailand than in Britain or the USA. But when you look at Thai people, I think they are far more tolerant of us than we are of foreigners back home in England".

Your etc. must be a very long list, as for tolerance? Yes they do tolerate us but that's about it.

Reconciliation (ethnic relations), restoring mutual respect between individuals from different cultural backgrounds

I think your ideals do not promote this.

People can work hard here and achieve. I see it every day. There are jobs here and as a matter of fact my wife has trained many TT people who would be very qualified to go into politics. Accountants lawyers and such. Why don't they ? Maybe too smart. I also think that the people living in the rural areas are obviously disadvantaged because of thier local which would keep them from getting the proper education and therefore keeping them out of the political arena. Not because of race. I do not argue the fact that there are some chinese thai families like you have stated but i have not seen this nor have i seen it in any of the chinese thai families that we consort with.

Or my wifes been yanking my chain with her "invisible hands". anythings possible in Thailand

Right. You say "There are no Chinese people in Thai politics, only Thai people". Well, correct, none of these people have got Chinese citizenship or permanent residence permits in China ! Off-course, I meant Chinese-Thais ! You knew that right ? Chinese-Thai, ethnic Chinese, people with Chinese ancestry, Chinese looking people, all these words are used by the media to mean the same thing !! Okay, would it make you less stressed if I say 'reduce the number of Chinese-Thais in Thai politics' !!! How about I re-phrase it, I say 'What we need to see is more senior politicians drawn from the majority ethnic/social groups in Thailand, after all, any country can only be run properly and fairly by individuals who the masses can identify with, how can a person who is drawn from a minority group represent and understand the views of a majority group that is different to his/theres' !!!

You notice that in certain Latin American countries (you know which ones I'm talking about !), the previous ruling party was made up of and represented the 'middle-class', a minority group made up mainly of people with European ancestry (Spain !). A new political group, with nearly all their leaders drawn from the indigenous 'Indians' (these people are mainly working class, unskilled workers) now takes over the country in a democratic way. Can a person of European ancestry truly represent working class Indians when he is "not one of them" ? To truly represent that group, he should actually be "one of them" , or the same as them !!

Back to Thailand, there was writing about how and why Abhisit failed to win the election. Writers did say things like "he lacked the common touch", "his background and way of life is very removed and different to the masses, because of this, he found it very difficult to connect with the masses". Well, that's like say "If he was one of them (the masses), he would have no problems connecting with them, the masses would not have a problem identifying with him". Do you see what I mean ?

Okay, I agree, reconciliation is now very important in Thai poltics. Fortunately, the party who just lost are not jumping up and down and claiming that the vote on Sunday was rigged. Nobody is claiming foul play. Hopefully, we will not see ten thousand or twenty thousand guys with yellow t-shirts,( parking their nice Honda cars, and BMWs and Mercs) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill again. And yes, let's hope the present government does not call for "justice(punishment !) to those who removed us in a coup back in 2006, punish the leaders of the 2008 airport sit-in, and harsh penalties for the the army for putting down the demonstration last year". And let's hope the courts do not declare the election result as 'null and void' due to the legality of the winning party. But we all kmow, history sometimes repeats itself.

One more point, so you agree with the stereotype we have of Chinese-Thais ? After all, you yourself wrote about how they work their <deleted> off to get to where they are going !! And I do smirk at how your wife might be yanking your chain with her invisible hands !! I know an American who says "some of these Thais want to treat me as a mushroom, they keep me in the dark, and they feed me low quality fertilizer every day" !! Okay, he didn't say low quality fertilizer, he said something else !! Oh shit, I've just noticed a newspaper headline about the Democrats wanting to declare the Thaksin party null and void ................

FOODLOVER · July 9, 2011

"What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics."

"Okay, I agree, reconciliation is now very important in Thai poltics".

As for Abithist

Yes he is the ultimate cracker in the system but i think that with the Thai people this did not really matter. With the glitzy and glamorous life that Mr. T has on the lam and with his televised political speeches via satellite and the photogenic so-so-hi-so as his figure head it gives them one more person to see as "Higher" than themselves. They certainly are very shiny with slick packaging and all and believing that someone of his stature will pass down through his benevolent behavior all things good to the people of Thailand is farcical. I also find it entertaining that this man has been banned from politics even while he admitted paying red shirts to line up during this period stirring up turmoil in this Country and the people allowed this criminal to place his sister in his place. So many levels of fertilizer for all.

'What we need to see is more senior politicians drawn from the majority ethnic/social groups in Thailand, after all, any country can only be run properly and fairly by individuals who the masses can identify with, how can a person who is drawn from a minority group represent and understand the views of a majority group that is different to his/theres' !!!

I see the light and they are out there, but would you want to jump into this system. Idiots throwing grenades. There are some brilliant TT people out there but really for what? I have asked. Seems they feel education will cure all but the values are differnt with the majority at home so how can you teach at school and then be sent home and all the work is reversed as they enter the door.( These are the Thai Thai people saying this)i.e Studying and the such is not enforced. Nutrition. Proper sleep requirements for the kids.

"Fortunately, the party who just lost are not jumping up and down and claiming that the vote on Sunday was rigged. Nobody is claiming foul play. Hopefully, we will not see ten thousand or twenty thousand guys with yellow t-shirts,( parking their nice Honda cars, and BMWs and Mercs) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill again."

Nobody has to claim it when he was on you tube telling his minions that they would no longer have to line up for their 500 baht payment.

Tanjoobettymuch

Edited July 9, 2011 by FOODLOVER

tonbridgebrit · July 10, 2011

"What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics."

"Okay, I agree, reconciliation is now very important in Thai poltics".

As for Abithist

Yes he is the ultimate cracker in the system but i think that with the Thai people this did not really matter. With the glitzy and glamorous life that Mr. T has on the lam and with his televised political speeches via satellite and the photogenic so-so-hi-so as his figure head it gives them one more person to see as "Higher" than themselves. They certainly are very shiny with slick packaging and all and believing that someone of his stature will pass down through his benevolent behavior all things good to the people of Thailand is farcical. I also find it entertaining that this man has been banned from politics even while he admitted paying red shirts to line up during this period stirring up turmoil in this Country and the people allowed this criminal to place his sister in his place. So many levels of fertilizer for all.

'What we need to see is more senior politicians drawn from the majority ethnic/social groups in Thailand, after all, any country can only be run properly and fairly by individuals who the masses can identify with, how can a person who is drawn from a minority group represent and understand the views of a majority group that is different to his/theres' !!!

I see the light and they are out there, but would you want to jump into this system. Idiots throwing grenades. There are some brilliant TT people out there but really for what? I have asked. Seems they feel education will cure all but the values are differnt with the majority at home so how can you teach at school and then be sent home and all the work is reversed as they enter the door.( These are the Thai Thai people saying this)i.e Studying and the such is not enforced. Nutrition. Proper sleep requirements for the kids.

"Fortunately, the party who just lost are not jumping up and down and claiming that the vote on Sunday was rigged. Nobody is claiming foul play. Hopefully, we will not see ten thousand or twenty thousand guys with yellow t-shirts,( parking their nice Honda cars, and BMWs and Mercs) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill again."

Nobody has to claim it when he was on you tube telling his minions that they would no longer have to line up for their 500 baht payment.

Tanjoobettymuch

I'm smirking at the word 'cracker' ! I'm not familiar with all American slang words, to me, a group of 'black guys' in America see a 'white' friend of there's, and they say to him "what's up cracker ?" !! Right, you've put up the picture on your bit of writing. Are you deliberately doing this to provoke people ??!! You talk about reconciliation, how can reconciliation take place when the Dems (the Abhisit party) are trying to dissolve or declare the Thaksin party 'null and void' !!

I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!

Do you think all this is funny and good ??!! I'm going to say, yes, Thaksin was involved in corruption etc. But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !!

Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire. But, it still turns out, that the rural poor will benefit from the Thaksin regime more than they would if under the Democrats. The Dems represent the interests of the middle-class, why would a poor rural person vote Democrat ? You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits.

FOODLOVER · July 10, 2011

"What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics."

"Okay, I agree, reconciliation is now very important in Thai poltics".

As for Abithist

Yes he is the ultimate cracker in the system but i think that with the Thai people this did not really matter. With the glitzy and glamorous life that Mr. T has on the lam and with his televised political speeches via satellite and the photogenic so-so-hi-so as his figure head it gives them one more person to see as "Higher" than themselves. They certainly are very shiny with slick packaging and all and believing that someone of his stature will pass down through his benevolent behavior all things good to the people of Thailand is farcical. I also find it entertaining that this man has been banned from politics even while he admitted paying red shirts to line up during this period stirring up turmoil in this Country and the people allowed this criminal to place his sister in his place. So many levels of fertilizer for all.

'What we need to see is more senior politicians drawn from the majority ethnic/social groups in Thailand, after all, any country can only be run properly and fairly by individuals who the masses can identify with, how can a person who is drawn from a minority group represent and understand the views of a majority group that is different to his/theres' !!!

I see the light and they are out there, but would you want to jump into this system. Idiots throwing grenades. There are some brilliant TT people out there but really for what? I have asked. Seems they feel education will cure all but the values are differnt with the majority at home so how can you teach at school and then be sent home and all the work is reversed as they enter the door.( These are the Thai Thai people saying this)i.e Studying and the such is not enforced. Nutrition. Proper sleep requirements for the kids.

"Fortunately, the party who just lost are not jumping up and down and claiming that the vote on Sunday was rigged. Nobody is claiming foul play. Hopefully, we will not see ten thousand or twenty thousand guys with yellow t-shirts,( parking their nice Honda cars, and BMWs and Mercs) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill again."

Nobody has to claim it when he was on you tube telling his minions that they would no longer have to line up for their 500 baht payment.

Tanjoobettymuch

I'm smirking at the word 'cracker' ! I'm not familiar with all American slang words, to me, a group of 'black guys' in America see a 'white' friend of there's, and they say to him "what's up cracker ?" !! Right, you've put up the picture on your bit of writing. Are you deliberately doing this to provoke people ??!! You talk about reconciliation, how can reconciliation take place when the Dems (the Abhisit party) are trying to dissolve or declare the Thaksin party 'null and void' !!

I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!

But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !!

Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire. But, it still turns out, that the rural poor will benefit from the Thaksin regime more than they would if under the Democrats. The Dems represent the interests of the middle-class, why would a poor rural person vote Democrat ? You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits.

Nope, Honkies can say cracker no problem with out it being an issue. Like some use the "N" word if it's their own race. Although I would certainly not. As for "Black" people calling their white friends 'Cracker" uhm , I don't think so.

"You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits." Spoken like a true Red!

I would think one would vote for whomever is best for the country. Voting republican for me would have certainly been more advantageous economically to me but as i see it, Obama was the best choice for the country.

" I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!"

True, there are consequences for ones actions and after already being convicted of crimes and with more warrants hanging over his head he continues his active participation in the Thai political scene without any concern for the stability of his Country. One of those consequences is a suspension of all political activities which has been proven not to work . As for your assertion that they 'Won" the election. If by breaking rules and regulations to gain more votes is" Winning", so be it. I think Charlie Sheen has the same definition as you for winning.

"Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire."

Is this your best Pro Thaksin statement?

"But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !! "

Bribery is a crime. The 2 policies that you refereed to are not. The ones where he benefited at the cost of the Thai people were certainly illegal and has been convicted but he high tailed it out of here before he could man up and face the punishment. Instead he throws his baby sister into a place where she truly did not want to go but when big brother speaks, she follows. If you remember she said that she was not ready. So who is currently running the show although it is illegal for him to be in politics? I know! The man that you admit is a criminal! Gold Sphincter )0(

animatic · July 10, 2011

Gold Sphincter )0( the man with the midas tush.

tonbridgebrit · July 12, 2011

"What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics."

"Okay, I agree, reconciliation is now very important in Thai poltics".

As for Abithist

Yes he is the ultimate cracker in the system but i think that with the Thai people this did not really matter. With the glitzy and glamorous life that Mr. T has on the lam and with his televised political speeches via satellite and the photogenic so-so-hi-so as his figure head it gives them one more person to see as "Higher" than themselves. They certainly are very shiny with slick packaging and all and believing that someone of his stature will pass down through his benevolent behavior all things good to the people of Thailand is farcical. I also find it entertaining that this man has been banned from politics even while he admitted paying red shirts to line up during this period stirring up turmoil in this Country and the people allowed this criminal to place his sister in his place. So many levels of fertilizer for all.

'What we need to see is more senior politicians drawn from the majority ethnic/social groups in Thailand, after all, any country can only be run properly and fairly by individuals who the masses can identify with, how can a person who is drawn from a minority group represent and understand the views of a majority group that is different to his/theres' !!!

I see the light and they are out there, but would you want to jump into this system. Idiots throwing grenades. There are some brilliant TT people out there but really for what? I have asked. Seems they feel education will cure all but the values are differnt with the majority at home so how can you teach at school and then be sent home and all the work is reversed as they enter the door.( These are the Thai Thai people saying this)i.e Studying and the such is not enforced. Nutrition. Proper sleep requirements for the kids.

"Fortunately, the party who just lost are not jumping up and down and claiming that the vote on Sunday was rigged. Nobody is claiming foul play. Hopefully, we will not see ten thousand or twenty thousand guys with yellow t-shirts,( parking their nice Honda cars, and BMWs and Mercs) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill again."

Nobody has to claim it when he was on you tube telling his minions that they would no longer have to line up for their 500 baht payment.

Tanjoobettymuch

I'm smirking at the word 'cracker' ! I'm not familiar with all American slang words, to me, a group of 'black guys' in America see a 'white' friend of there's, and they say to him "what's up cracker ?" !! Right, you've put up the picture on your bit of writing. Are you deliberately doing this to provoke people ??!! You talk about reconciliation, how can reconciliation take place when the Dems (the Abhisit party) are trying to dissolve or declare the Thaksin party 'null and void' !!

I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!

But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !!

Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire. But, it still turns out, that the rural poor will benefit from the Thaksin regime more than they would if under the Democrats. The Dems represent the interests of the middle-class, why would a poor rural person vote Democrat ? You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits.

Nope, Honkies can say cracker no problem with out it being an issue. Like some use the "N" word if it's their own race. Although I would certainly not. As for "Black" people calling their white friends 'Cracker" uhm , I don't think so.

"You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits." Spoken like a true Red!

I would think one would vote for whomever is best for the country. Voting republican for me would have certainly been more advantageous economically to me but as i see it, Obama was the best choice for the country.

" I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!"

True, there are consequences for ones actions and after already being convicted of crimes and with more warrants hanging over his head he continues his active participation in the Thai political scene without any concern for the stability of his Country. One of those consequences is a suspension of all political activities which has been proven not to work . As for your assertion that they 'Won" the election. If by breaking rules and regulations to gain more votes is" Winning", so be it. I think Charlie Sheen has the same definition as you for winning.

"Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire."

Is this your best Pro Thaksin statement?

"But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !! "

Bribery is a crime. The 2 policies that you refereed to are not. The ones where he benefited at the cost of the Thai people were certainly illegal and has been convicted but he high tailed it out of here before he could man up and face the punishment. Instead he throws his baby sister into a place where she truly did not want to go but when big brother speaks, she follows. If you remember she said that she was not ready. So who is currently running the show although it is illegal for him to be in politics? I know! The man that you admit is a criminal! Gold Sphincter )0(

Right, ""You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits" , spoken like a true red !" Let's get real, most people do vote for the party that gives them the biggest benefits. Remember, political parties or groups represent certain social groups and represent their interests. The Democrats in Thailand represent the middle-class and their interests ! So it's not just the Reds who vote for their party, the Yellows do the same thing ! It's just that there's more working class people (the rural poor ) than middle-class people !! And that's the problem that Thailand's middle-class has got !! The middle-class have more financial power than the rural poor, but democracy is about one man and his one vote, and hence, the working-class (the rural poor, and also the urban poor !) should win against the middle-class in a democratic vote. I do feel though, even if the Reds where to totally distance themselves from Thaksin, well, the Thai middle-class, (and people like you as well, I've noticed there's more anti-Thaksin guys than pro-Thaksin guys on Thai Visa), the Thai middle-class would still carry on voting for the Democrats, the Thai middle-class are still simply NOT going to vote for a party that represents the rural poor. That's obvious, right ?

To cut a long story short, this attempted removal of the Thaksin party, and using the courts to re-install the Democrats, well, it's not really to do with "We don't like Thaksin, hence, we don't want whatever party he controls". The middle-class know that they will have their wealth and status eroded by a party that represents the rural poor, hence, the middle-class don't want the Red shirt party (any party that represents the rural and urban poor) to be in charge. The Democrats have lost the election, that's why they want it declared null and void. Anybody would say, and I've noticed guys on Thai Visa saying this, "People knew that Thaksin was taking part in politics during the weeks and months prior to the election, why didn't the courts attempt to dissolve the Thaksin party three weeks before the election". That's because, if the courts did that, well, it makes it look too obvious that the Democrats know that they are going to lose the general election, and hence, that's why it is they are trying to declare the election null and void before the election takes place. And how bad would that make the Democrats look ?

Anyway, do we agree that a Thaksin regime will benefit the rural poor more than a Democrat one ? Do we accept that Thailand is a country with a huge gap between rich and poor ? Britain appears to have a smaller gap between rich and poor compared to the USA, the USA in turn, has a smaller gap between rich and poor than Thailand. What's so wrong about closing the gap between rich and poor in Thailand ??!! I'm not suggesting making Thailand a 'socialist' country, no, I would like to see a Thailand with the poor not being as poor as they are. And government intervention has to take place if we are to see the poor closing the gap between themselves and the rich. Total free-market capitalism (or lots and lots of it) will always create a pyramid structure for wealth and status, and a pyramid-like structure is what we see in Thailand today. It's just that the Thais at the top end of the pyramid want to keep it that way, I don't blast those Chinese-Thais for wanting and attempting to keep it that way, but democracy will mean that the majority group should/will get things their way.

whybother · July 12, 2011

<snipped a long story short>

To cut a long story short, this attempted removal of the Thaksin party, and using the courts to re-install the Democrats,

I'm just wondering: How will "this attempted removal of the Thaksin party" "re-install the Democrats".

Do you know what happened in 2008?

tonbridgebrit · July 12, 2011

<snipped a long story short>

To cut a long story short, this attempted removal of the Thaksin party, and using the courts to re-install the Democrats,

I'm just wondering: How will "this attempted removal of the Thaksin party" "re-install the Democrats".

Do you know what happened in 2008?

Sorry, I was just trying to say that the pro-Thaksin party has won the election, what we are seeing now (apparently) is legal action (the courts) to dissolve (or whatever word you want to use) this pro-Thaksin party. And once the pro-Thaksin party has gone, supposedly, the Democrats will be back in power. Just a small following point, I can see people smirking and thinking 'once again, the Democrats fail to win an election, but they will still be in power'. Feel free to put up some writing to express your opinions as to what happened/what really happened back in 2008 !! I would like to read it !!

whybother · July 12, 2011

Sorry, I was just trying to say that the pro-Thaksin party has won the election, what we are seeing now (apparently) is legal action (the courts) to dissolve (or whatever word you want to use) this pro-Thaksin party. And once the pro-Thaksin party has gone, supposedly, the Democrats will be back in power. Just a small following point, I can see people smirking and thinking 'once again, the Democrats fail to win an election, but they will still be in power'. Feel free to put up some writing to express your opinions as to what happened/what really happened back in 2008 !! I would like to read it !!

What happened in 2008 is that:

1) The courts disbanded the PPP.

2) The courts banned the executives of the PPP party (including then PM Somchai).

3) The PPP MPs that were not executives formed a new party - the PTP.

4) Some factions of the PPP formed separate parties (ie the "Friends of Newin"s BJT ... amongst others)

5) The Democrats were able to get the support of some previous PPP factions and other coalition partners. (It's irrelevant in this discussion how they did that).

6) The PTP, who still had control of the government, chose to call for a parliamentary vote for PM (which is how EVERY PM is elected). From my understanding, they could have called an election at this point, instead of a vote for PM.

7) Abhisit was elected PM by the majority of MPs.

In summary, the courts didn't kick out the government. The PPP/PTP lost the support of enough MPs that they no longer had majority support. When they came to elect a new PM (seeing as the previous one was banned), they lost. Once again, it's irrelevant in this discussion why/how they lost support.

How does all of that relate to what might happen to the PTP now?

The main difference is that Yingluck (who will be PM by the time the courts make any decision) is not on the party executive, so will not be banned. So there will be no new parliamentary vote for PM.

Also, with a majority themselves, and with support of 35 MPs from other parties, they are not going to lose enough MPs through banning to make them lose their majority support.

Even if the PTP were banned, the Democrats would be very unlikely to get enough support to get back into power.

FOODLOVER · July 13, 2011

"What we need to see is the removal of Chinese people from Thai poltics."

"Okay, I agree, reconciliation is now very important in Thai poltics".

As for Abithist

Yes he is the ultimate cracker in the system but i think that with the Thai people this did not really matter. With the glitzy and glamorous life that Mr. T has on the lam and with his televised political speeches via satellite and the photogenic so-so-hi-so as his figure head it gives them one more person to see as "Higher" than themselves. They certainly are very shiny with slick packaging and all and believing that someone of his stature will pass down through his benevolent behavior all things good to the people of Thailand is farcical. I also find it entertaining that this man has been banned from politics even while he admitted paying red shirts to line up during this period stirring up turmoil in this Country and the people allowed this criminal to place his sister in his place. So many levels of fertilizer for all.

'What we need to see is more senior politicians drawn from the majority ethnic/social groups in Thailand, after all, any country can only be run properly and fairly by individuals who the masses can identify with, how can a person who is drawn from a minority group represent and understand the views of a majority group that is different to his/theres' !!!

I see the light and they are out there, but would you want to jump into this system. Idiots throwing grenades. There are some brilliant TT people out there but really for what? I have asked. Seems they feel education will cure all but the values are differnt with the majority at home so how can you teach at school and then be sent home and all the work is reversed as they enter the door.( These are the Thai Thai people saying this)i.e Studying and the such is not enforced. Nutrition. Proper sleep requirements for the kids.

"Fortunately, the party who just lost are not jumping up and down and claiming that the vote on Sunday was rigged. Nobody is claiming foul play. Hopefully, we will not see ten thousand or twenty thousand guys with yellow t-shirts,( parking their nice Honda cars, and BMWs and Mercs) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill again."

Nobody has to claim it when he was on you tube telling his minions that they would no longer have to line up for their 500 baht payment.

Tanjoobettymuch

I'm smirking at the word 'cracker' ! I'm not familiar with all American slang words, to me, a group of 'black guys' in America see a 'white' friend of there's, and they say to him "what's up cracker ?" !! Right, you've put up the picture on your bit of writing. Are you deliberately doing this to provoke people ??!! You talk about reconciliation, how can reconciliation take place when the Dems (the Abhisit party) are trying to dissolve or declare the Thaksin party 'null and void' !!

I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!

But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !!

Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire. But, it still turns out, that the rural poor will benefit from the Thaksin regime more than they would if under the Democrats. The Dems represent the interests of the middle-class, why would a poor rural person vote Democrat ? You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits.

Nope, Honkies can say cracker no problem with out it being an issue. Like some use the "N" word if it's their own race. Although I would certainly not. As for "Black" people calling their white friends 'Cracker" uhm , I don't think so.

"You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits." Spoken like a true Red!

I would think one would vote for whomever is best for the country. Voting republican for me would have certainly been more advantageous economically to me but as i see it, Obama was the best choice for the country.

" I think, there is now a slight danger that the courts might actually go ahead and have the Thaksin party dissolved/banned, and once again, the Dems will be back in power (after losing the election, and this time, with no Abhisit). And once again, the Thaksin party will refuse to leave, and yes, we will see a stack of guys (with yellow t-shirts) turning up at the airport and bringing it to a standstill !!! Yes, a few guys on Thai Visa are smirking and writing "de ja vu", yes, the crap is repeating itself !!!"

True, there are consequences for ones actions and after already being convicted of crimes and with more warrants hanging over his head he continues his active participation in the Thai political scene without any concern for the stability of his Country. One of those consequences is a suspension of all political activities which has been proven not to work . As for your assertion that they 'Won" the election. If by breaking rules and regulations to gain more votes is" Winning", so be it. I think Charlie Sheen has the same definition as you for winning.

"Yes, Thaksin might not really care that much about the rural poor, he just wants their vote so he can be in power, that way, he can further his vast bussiness empire."

Is this your best Pro Thaksin statement?

"But that man, Thaksin, when he was in power prior to 2006, he did carry out policies that benefited the rural poor (things like, the 30 baht healthcare, micro-loans to farmers, etc). Yes, he did those policies to 'bribe' the poor, that way, they vote to re-elect him. What's wrong with a politician who bribes voters with his policies, so that they re-elect him ? That's like saying that a leader might not think that bringing soldiers back home from Iraq/Afganistan is good, but he's going to do it, because he feels that that is what people want, so he's going to do it to get more votes at election time !! "

Bribery is a crime. The 2 policies that you refereed to are not. The ones where he benefited at the cost of the Thai people were certainly illegal and has been convicted but he high tailed it out of here before he could man up and face the punishment. Instead he throws his baby sister into a place where she truly did not want to go but when big brother speaks, she follows. If you remember she said that she was not ready. So who is currently running the show although it is illegal for him to be in politics? I know! The man that you admit is a criminal! Gold Sphincter )0(

Right, ""You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits" , spoken like a true red !" Let's get real, most people do vote for the party that gives them the biggest benefits. Remember, political parties or groups represent certain social groups and represent their interests. The Democrats in Thailand represent the middle-class and their interests ! So it's not just the Reds who vote for their party, the Yellows do the same thing ! It's just that there's more working class people (the rural poor ) than middle-class people !! And that's the problem that Thailand's middle-class has got !! The middle-class have more financial power than the rural poor, but democracy is about one man and his one vote, and hence, the working-class (the rural poor, and also the urban poor !) should win against the middle-class in a democratic vote. I do feel though, even if the Reds where to totally distance themselves from Thaksin, well, the Thai middle-class, (and people like you as well, I've noticed there's more anti-Thaksin guys than pro-Thaksin guys on Thai Visa), the Thai middle-class would still carry on voting for the Democrats, the Thai middle-class are still simply NOT going to vote for a party that represents the rural poor. That's obvious, right ?

To cut a long story short, this attempted removal of the Thaksin party, and using the courts to re-install the Democrats, well, it's not really to do with "We don't like Thaksin, hence, we don't want whatever party he controls". The middle-class know that they will have their wealth and status eroded by a party that represents the rural poor, hence, the middle-class don't want the Red shirt party (any party that represents the rural and urban poor) to be in charge. The Democrats have lost the election, that's why they want it declared null and void. Anybody would say, and I've noticed guys on Thai Visa saying this, "People knew that Thaksin was taking part in politics during the weeks and months prior to the election, why didn't the courts attempt to dissolve the Thaksin party three weeks before the election". That's because, if the courts did that, well, it makes it look too obvious that the Democrats know that they are going to lose the general election, and hence, that's why it is they are trying to declare the election null and void before the election takes place. And how bad would that make the Democrats look ?

Anyway, do we agree that a Thaksin regime will benefit the rural poor more than a Democrat one ? Do we accept that Thailand is a country with a huge gap between rich and poor ? Britain appears to have a smaller gap between rich and poor compared to the USA, the USA in turn, has a smaller gap between rich and poor than Thailand. What's so wrong about closing the gap between rich and poor in Thailand ??!! I'm not suggesting making Thailand a 'socialist' country, no, I would like to see a Thailand with the poor not being as poor as they are. And government intervention has to take place if we are to see the poor closing the gap between themselves and the rich. Total free-market capitalism (or lots and lots of it) will always create a pyramid structure for wealth and status, and a pyramid-like structure is what we see in Thailand today. It's just that the Thais at the top end of the pyramid want to keep it that way, I don't blast those Chinese-Thais for wanting and attempting to keep it that way, but democracy will mean that the majority group should/will get things their way.

Good god man! Do you think )0( is going to conquer the great divide of the rich and the poor? Do you think he gives a flying rats ass about the poor.

I smirk at the thought. (A smirk is a smile evoking insolence, scorn, or offensive smugness.)

."You vote for the party that gives YOU the biggest benefits."

Vote for whomever is best for the country and the people, better.

Obviously our ideals are different as i was raised as a liberal in Texas which means we share and try to do whats best for the greater good. You know Sierra club and crap like that, but mess with the family or break into my house i instantly will turn republican and blow your head off. That being said i am trying to see your point of view and cannot figure the rational of thinking that you can do whatever you want to win an election including passing out cash to the poor and call these people democratically elected. True there are always 2 sides to any coin but when both sides of that coin have )0( on it the odds to win aint to good.

Do we agree that giving people 500 baht for their vote is a egregious violation of the law therefore making the election bogus, dude?

If the reason of the loss was do to illegal activities what would be your recommendation?

Have a nice day

Edited July 13, 2011 by FOODLOVER

hammered · July 13, 2011

I read elsewhere that disolution of PTP will result in the loss of only one MP this time around due to how the exectuive is made up.

tonbridgebrit · July 13, 2011

Sorry, I was just trying to say that the pro-Thaksin party has won the election, what we are seeing now (apparently) is legal action (the courts) to dissolve (or whatever word you want to use) this pro-Thaksin party. And once the pro-Thaksin party has gone, supposedly, the Democrats will be back in power. Just a small following point, I can see people smirking and thinking 'once again, the Democrats fail to win an election, but they will still be in power'. Feel free to put up some writing to express your opinions as to what happened/what really happened back in 2008 !! I would like to read it !!

What happened in 2008 is that:

1) The courts disbanded the PPP.

2) The courts banned the executives of the PPP party (including then PM Somchai).

3) The PPP MPs that were not executives formed a new party - the PTP.

4) Some factions of the PPP formed separate parties (ie the "Friends of Newin"s BJT ... amongst others)

5) The Democrats were able to get the support of some previous PPP factions and other coalition partners. (It's irrelevant in this discussion how they did that).

6) The PTP, who still had control of the government, chose to call for a parliamentary vote for PM (which is how EVERY PM is elected). From my understanding, they could have called an election at this point, instead of a vote for PM.

7) Abhisit was elected PM by the majority of MPs.

In summary, the courts didn't kick out the government. The PPP/PTP lost the support of enough MPs that they no longer had majority support. When they came to elect a new PM (seeing as the previous one was banned), they lost. Once again, it's irrelevant in this discussion why/how they lost support.

How does all of that relate to what might happen to the PTP now?

The main difference is that Yingluck (who will be PM by the time the courts make any decision) is not on the party executive, so will not be banned. So there will be no new parliamentary vote for PM.

Also, with a majority themselves, and with support of 35 MPs from other parties, they are not going to lose enough MPs through banning to make them lose their majority support.

Even if the PTP were banned, the Democrats would be very unlikely to get enough support to get back into power.

Well, thank you for your writing ! I've done a bit of reading on wikipedia to refresh my memory of what happened in 2008. I read your writing, and I have no problem with your version of events ! You appear to have pretty good knowledge as to what's going on. So, what you're trying to say, is,is that the legal action taking place will only do a small bit of damage (if any) to the PTP, it will NOT be able to do serious damage to them ? And you're saying that the Democrats are very unlikely to get back into power (because they haven't got enough MPs). Well, that makes me feel a bit better !

Now, if you can now rule out any chances of stacks of people in yellow shirts standing outside government buildings, making a real din and racket, making it pretty difficult for people to enter or leave whatever building they're in, and if you can rule out the same people being in a big demonstration to bring the airport to a standstill or making a general nuisance of themselves, if you can do that, I'ill feel a bit more better !!!

Right, Yingluck not being banned and being PM is good news to me, even those who are not pro-Thaksin secretly want to see her face on television on a regular basis. Yes, I've deliberately tried to be a bit funny/comical in the above writing ! What I'm trying to say, is, is that I agree with some of the Thai Visa postings where people reckon that this whole poltical uncertainty is not totally over. The nonsense we've seen during the last few years is not over, it will carry on. However. I don't think all this is funny and hilarious, and I'd much rather see sense prevail. I do realise that there's people out there, who secretly laugh and smirk at Thailand, and think to themselves "this Thailand is living proof that democracy can only succeed in countries that have already had a fair bit of economic and social (whatever that's supposed to mean) development, Thailand has simply not had enough economic and social development, that's why democracy might not work here". I don't laugh at my neighbour if he fails to make anything work, I would like to see nobody laughing or smirking at this country, Thailand.

whybother · July 13, 2011

I read elsewhere that disolution of PTP will result in the loss of only one MP this time around due to how the exectuive is made up.

Only one?

I was aware that they had taken the precaution of removing candidates from the executive list, but I didn't realise it was reduced to one.

But that would confirm what I have been saying all along. The disbanding of the PTP will not bring the Dems into government.

whybother · July 13, 2011

Well, thank you for your writing ! I've done a bit of reading on wikipedia to refresh my memory of what happened in 2008. I read your writing, and I have no problem with your version of events ! You appear to have pretty good knowledge as to what's going on. So, what you're trying to say, is,is that the legal action taking place will only do a small bit of damage (if any) to the PTP, it will NOT be able to do serious damage to them ? And you're saying that the Democrats are very unlikely to get back into power (because they haven't got enough MPs). Well, that makes me feel a bit better !

Hammered's post above suggests only one MP would be banned if PTP were disbanded.

Now, if you can now rule out any chances of stacks of people in yellow shirts standing outside government buildings, making a real din and racket, making it pretty difficult for people to enter or leave whatever building they're in, and if you can rule out the same people being in a big demonstration to bring the airport to a standstill or making a general nuisance of themselves, if you can do that, I'ill feel a bit more better !!!

Sorry, I can't rule that out. If the PTP government start whitewashing Thaksin's crimes, I expect the protests to start up again.

Right, Yingluck not being banned and being PM is good news to me, even those who are not pro-Thaksin secretly want to see her face on television on a regular basis.

Yingluck still has a potential perjury charge hanging over her, relating to Thaksin's assets case a couple of years ago. That won't stop her from becoming PM ... but it may mean she has to step down in the future.

Yes, I've deliberately tried to be a bit funny/comical in the above writing ! What I'm trying to say, is, is that I agree with some of the Thai Visa postings where people reckon that this whole poltical uncertainty is not totally over. The nonsense we've seen during the last few years is not over, it will carry on. However. I don't think all this is funny and hilarious, and I'd much rather see sense prevail. I do realise that there's people out there, who secretly laugh and smirk at Thailand, and think to themselves "this Thailand is living proof that democracy can only succeed in countries that have already had a fair bit of economic and social (whatever that's supposed to mean) development, Thailand has simply not had enough economic and social development, that's why democracy might not work here". I don't laugh at my neighbour if he fails to make anything work, I would like to see nobody laughing or smirking at this country, Thailand.

Agreed. Thailand is making progress. 2 steps forward, 1 step back ... and occasionally an extra step back thrown in to mess things up.

tonbridgebrit · July 13, 2011

Hi Foodlover !! Right, "Do you think Thaksin is going to conquer the great divide between rich and poor", "Do you think he gives a flying rats ass about the poor". No, I don't think Thaksin is going to conquer the great divide between rich and poor, BUT, I do think his policies will reduce the gap between rich and poor, and his policies will do it more so than Abhisit's policies. Does he care about the poor, probably not, but as said before, he will have policies that will benefit the rural poor, he wants/needs the rural poor to vote for him, so he will be elected at the next election. As said already, Thaksin's policies will benefit the rural poor more than Abhisit's Democrat policies. Smirk, you've given the dictionary meaning of the word smirk !! My own meaning is smirk is less friendly than smile, and smirk is diluted laughter or small laughter !

This thing about the 500 baht bribe given to people to vote for the party. Let's take a step back and look at the bigger picture. The rural poor stand to gain far more than 500 baht from the policies of the pro-Thaksin party. As in the policies of the Thaksin party will give the rural poor far more than 500 baht bearing in mind the policies will be spread over a number of years. And anyway, didn't the Democrats do some vote buying themselves ?!

I forgot to give you a tiny bit of credit because you will be better off with a Republican Party in power, but you voted Democrat instead, because you reckoned the Democrats would be better for America. Hey, stop making me look like a selfish arsehol_e by saying "our ideals are different, I was raised as a liberal which means we share and do what's best for the greater good" ! Well, I can claim I am very slightly better off with the Conservatives (Britain's equivalent of the Republicans) in power, but I still voted Labour (Britain's left-wing socialist party) during the general election. My family was not rich when I was a child, I went to a government (state) school and the bulk of the children there were from 'working class' families. Even today, I try to cheer on parties that support the poor or working class. And, to me, this election is not about Thai people hating or supporting Thaksin. I really do see it as a fight between middle-class Thais and the rural poor (the working class) Thais. Do you want to see the rural Thais reducing the gap between themselves and the middle-class Thais ? Do you think the Thaksin party is lying when they claim they will have policies that benefit the rural poor, and do you think that Thaksin's benefits to the rural (and urban !) poor during his time in power (prior to 2006) were all lies and fake ?

Man, the 500 baht bribe is almost a 'red herring' (an issue that's not really that important) !! Yes, people have picked up the 500 baht bribe, but the rural poor (the people of Issan) are not as stupid or simple-minded as some of us foreigners like to think, they do remember Thaksin before 2006, I think most of the rural poor would vote for the pro-Thaksin party with or without the 500 baht bribe. Okay, how about we sit back, and see if this pro-Thaksin party really is going to make a serious effort to reduce poverty in Thailand. And we can than compare the situation to what the Democrats did to reduce poverty when they were in power !! And don't forget, as a few guys on Thai Visa have already said (with little smirks on their faces !), the Democrats have NOT won an election for about 19 years !! Pro-Thaksin parties don't have a problem winning elections !!!!

FOODLOVER · July 15, 2011

"Man, the 500 baht bribe is almost a 'red herring' (an issue that's not really that important)" !!

This idea of yours that flaunting ones square head at political rallies and paying people to attend and then vote for the golden one is ethically, or legally in any way a good thing is very rouge of you. He did this under his current 5 year suspension. So every things hunky dory? I don't think so! He is clearly in violation of the laws not to mention all things that are good in this world. I also think that the fact that Yingluck chose to cook Chinese noodles is a frightening development in the political scene. What was her motivation. Were the evil Chinese Thais in on this as that would make it a conspiracy? The questions remain!

"Hey, stop making me look like a selfish arsehol_e by saying "our ideals are different, I was raised as a liberal which means we share and do what's best for the greater good"

Is it golden as well )0(

"Okay, how about we sit back, and see if this pro-Thaksin party really is going to make a serious effort to reduce poverty in Thailand."

This just in, the minimum wage increase that was touted as the big deal for the poor is not going to happen as it will cripple the economy. I was also curious as to how this would work as most the poor people that i know dont have jobs so how the hell are they going to increase their income.Tablets not going to happen as well. What is most important is obviously the Shin dynasty, not the people who worked so hard to get them where they are, not their supporters who face criminal charges as they are now walking away from those very people who got them into these current positions. Loyalty apparently is not one of their better attributes. Ask your fellow country man who tried to open up a telecom business with the anointed one. He got rogered big time)0( ouch!

" Pro-Thaksin parties don't have a problem winning elections "!!!!

Please put 2 billion dollars in my account and i will be the next Thai PM!

"Reckon" very Texan of you! I see your coming towards the good side.

Cheers, Tally Ho, nudge nudge wink wink and all

Edited July 15, 2011 by FOODLOVER

tonbridgebrit · July 19, 2011

"Man, the 500 baht bribe is almost a 'red herring' (an issue that's not really that important)" !!

This idea of yours that flaunting ones square head at political rallies and paying people to attend and then vote for the golden one is ethically, or legally in any way a good thing is very rouge of you. He did this under his current 5 year suspension. So every things hunky dory? I don't think so! He is clearly in violation of the laws not to mention all things that are good in this world. I also think that the fact that Yingluck chose to cook Chinese noodles is a frightening development in the political scene. What was her motivation. Were the evil Chinese Thais in on this as that would make it a conspiracy? The questions remain!

"Hey, stop making me look like a selfish arsehol_e by saying "our ideals are different, I was raised as a liberal which means we share and do what's best for the greater good"

Is it golden as well )0(

"Okay, how about we sit back, and see if this pro-Thaksin party really is going to make a serious effort to reduce poverty in Thailand."

This just in, the minimum wage increase that was touted as the big deal for the poor is not going to happen as it will cripple the economy. I was also curious as to how this would work as most the poor people that i know dont have jobs so how the hell are they going to increase their income.Tablets not going to happen as well. What is most important is obviously the Shin dynasty, not the people who worked so hard to get them where they are, not their supporters who face criminal charges as they are now walking away from those very people who got them into these current positions. Loyalty apparently is not one of their better attributes. Ask your fellow country man who tried to open up a telecom business with the anointed one. He got rogered big time)0( ouch!

" Pro-Thaksin parties don't have a problem winning elections "!!!!

Please put 2 billion dollars in my account and i will be the next Thai PM!

"Reckon" very Texan of you! I see your coming towards the good side.

Cheers, Tally Ho, nudge nudge wink wink and all

I thought so, because you use the name 'Foodlover', I knew that you would bring up the issue of the Chinese noodles at some pont in time. Well, I take it you know that the guys doing legal action to try to declare the election null and void, well, the Chinese noodles are part of their legal action. Comedians like you and me can use this nonsense, but a group that was (maybe still are) able to bring certain places to a stand-still should not use such crap as an issue. This reduces whatever credibility that they've got, and makes Thailand look silly when foreigners read this in the newspapers.

As for whether the evil Chinese were in on this conspiracy, well, a conspiracy (to me !) is crap like : did the Bush government do 9/11, did NASA really land on the moon, was Princess Diana murdered, is Obama actually an American-born citizen, does the US government actually encourage stacks of illegal immigrants to enter America to become cheap labour, etc.

A stack of Chinese people (Chinese-Thais, ethnic Chinese, people of Chinese ancestry, Asian chicks, exotic Oriental beauties with almond shaped eyes, these words are used by the media to mean the same thing) being in charge of all the major political parties, is NOT a conspiracy theory !! Just look at them on television, have you ever been to Chinatown in San Francisco ? There's a Chinatown in London. It's obvious that the people who lead all Thailand's big political parties look the same as the people who work and have restaurants in Chinatown !!

But you are correct in saying that the pro-Thaksin party are not doing enough for the guys who actually put on red t-shirts and did so much for the cause during recent years. Yes, I would love to see all charges against the guys fighting for freedom and democracy last year to be dropped. Release any red shirts who are in jail, and yes, the pro-Thaksin party are not doing enough to get this done !!

(Please note, if you are NOT Foodlover, and you are reading this, please try to read above and previous posts before you start thinking that I'm some kind of bigot).

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