Land Dept Claims 90% Of Prime Phuket Land Controlled By Foreigners

[janverbeem]

No worries in Australia,

We have already sold off the land to foreigners such as the Hong Kong Chinese.

And all quite legally!

Yes, as well as some of Australia's landmark infrastructure, such as the Indian Pacific Railway, the Ghan, the whole shebang, .. to a British company.

ot any Austra

So I may assume that not any Australians have bought land abroad?

[pkspeaker]

I don't think they're talking about Hilton; I think they're talking about-for example when you see these real estate offices advertising "you can own land in Thailand" then a private citizen-the expat foreigner buys a house in say pattaya, but the house is put in the name of a 'company'-this is a fake company that does not really exists and the company owns 51% of the house-the 'company' is owned by several Thai people that the office arranges to co-own the house with that foreigner-who owns 49% of the property, a clause in the company company makes the foreigner the president and prevents the Thai people from clouding or cooperating to seize it back from the foreigner, he's the president of the compnay - he then effectivly owns it just like if it were really his. This is a loophole that allows foreigners to come here and buy land and houses when the law actually forbids it.. it is a loophole that I never have and never will exploit because loopholes can be closed with the strike of the pen..

if i am mistaken then please correct..

Id love to see a thai company manage to build and run hotels like hilton and the likes.. (impsosible).. will be fun to see them kick out all the big hotels? a pure thailand, with 0 visitor, all the violent south people driven to suicide with the dead economy and then a civil revolution and to finish, thailand back into a life of middle africa.

[Britannia]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

They could not give a s---t about the Thai wife, she's a peasent, How dare she try to improve herself, Farang, well they are inferior beings you know, Thailand from the dark ages to the dark ages, on a different planet from the rest of us

[bumpkin]

the usual pre-election rhetoric. Happens in many countries who suffer from 3rd-rate politicians. One day, there might be a political movement in Thailand with honesty and consideration for the true needs of its people. Obviously, that time has not yet come

[luvU2much500THB]

Empty your balls and wallet in Thailand but never ever invest a baht. Rent ist the way to go in LOS.

[Crushdepth]

Cracking down on this will be the same as the crackdown on foreigners in the share market: Foreign investors LEAVE, prices plummet and LOCAL investors scream blue murder because the value of THEIR properties gets flushed down the toilet.

[Britannia]

There's a line in the movie "Heat", with Al Pacino and Robert DeNero that applies to this. DeNero, as professional thief Neil McCauley, advises "Never get attached to anything you aren't prepared to walk away from in 30 seconds flat."

I have a beautiful home, a beautiful, and very good Thai wife of 52 (10 years my junior), and her 26 yr old son that I legally adopted and who, on his own, legally changed his last name to mine. Everything we have we put in his name. He's a great young man and my trust in him is not an issue in the least.

BUT....if for some reason...if something happened...I'd have no problems doing exactly what DeNero said. They could have the house & car, but not my CBR since it's in my name, and they can't touch my money. I have 100% VA disability which, by VA Regulations, can only go to an account that is in MY NAME ONLY, with restrictions of NO Debit card and NO online banking. Once a month I have to show up in person to withdraw from my acct and put in the joint account we have.

I walk, I take my money with me, they can't make payments, they lose everything very quickly. And they know it. Sort of my own personal "insurance policy" if you wish.

Ever hear of BAR-b-q ROIET?

[TimTang]

There is no way I will ever put money into Thai assets, because I think it's inevitable that a government will find an excuse one day to seize it in the name of nationalism.

Dodgy people, dodgy institutions, dodgy laws, dodgy governments and politicians = foreigner beware.

Same here! I would never buy land in this country. I've looked into that "nominee" system that lawyers claim is totally legit, but it seem suspect to me. You'd just be setting yourself up for disaster where you could potentially loose everything, unless you have millions of dollars stashed away off-shore somewhere.

[theblether]

There are methods of legal land ownership however as a rule of thumb it is rated at a Department of Trade level, for example if the Thai government invited a company such as Samsung into the country to build a factory then Samsung could / would expect to be able to own the land. That may be an extreme example however as a rule of thumb most members of the forum would not be trading at a level where they could access some of the programs available to the multi-nationals. Someone earlier mentioned the Hilton Hotel group, these kinds of companies are internationally quoted companies, they are at a different level.The legalities are complex and beyond the level where most farangs wish to be involved.

Most farang will invest in land for housing or as an adjunct to a house / farm. In other cases they will look to invest in bars or guest houses etc. These investors have effectively zero protection,

I am of the opinion that this is a serious loss for the general Thai economy, I withdrew from a deal last year that would have created substantial employment. I still look at Thailand as being a place where business could be done, and with proper management the country could boom, however that management is not forthcoming and we are left with the reality............Thailand is not investor friendly.

[thaiwanderer]

Cracking down on this will be the same as the crackdown on foreigners in the share market: Foreign investors LEAVE, prices plummet and LOCAL investors scream blue murder because the value of THEIR properties gets flushed down the toilet.

Even if there is to be a crackdown (doubtful) I disagree. Foreigners' attempts to own via nominees has always been illegal but they still did it and continue to do so.

Any change just means different fools will be needed to drop their money.

There's a long line of these and always will be.

[pisico]

<br />Running them off conveniently makes the land free to be bought up cheap by locals powers, now that the nasty farangs have paid to develop and build in it. Some things never change.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

XENOPHOBIA for fun and profit. It comes to show how hospitable Thais are...

[pisico]

<br />

<br />There is no way I will ever put money into Thai assets, because I think it's inevitable that a government will find an excuse one day to seize it in the name of nationalism.<br />Dodgy people, dodgy institutions, dodgy laws, dodgy governments and politicians = foreigner beware.<br />

<br /><br />Same here! I would never buy land in this country. I've looked into that "nominee" system that lawyers claim is totally legit, but it seem suspect to me. You'd just be setting yourself up for disaster where you could potentially loose everything, unless you have millions of dollars stashed away off-shore somewhere.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Americans can buy land, up to a Rai of land, and have full ownership in their names by virtue of the Amity Treaty.

[Nawtier]

Hub of repossessions and deportations..

[sydneyjed]

How do you become a millionaire in Thailand???...Easy...start off as a multi-millionaire!!!

[sawadeeken]

EVERYBODY KNOWS that Russia has gotten rid of most of it's COMMUNISM............. When you see 'stuff' like this it isn't hard to figure out where that communism went....................

[maidu]

Is this for 2012 April Fool's, nine months early?

Whenever I go to relax beside a pool or enjoy a buffet at a classy resort in Thailand, I can tell whether the top management is Thai or farang.

At a swimming pool, if the top management is Thai (or Chinese Thai), there will likely be some sickly-sweet Thai pop music (from one or more boomboxes) playing low fidelity somewhere nearby.

At a resort buffet, if the management is Thai, there may be a 'live' musician or group playing. That person will be Asian, and most of the music performed will be pre-recorded. The songs will be tired old standards from our parent's and grandparent's generation (actually that's the same for farang-run resorts). However, the Thai singer/musicians will be inferior to low echelon farang performers, but the Thai management won't be able able to hear (of don't give a hoot about) the difference between good and below-mediocre musical abilities. There's one place I know, which is one of the slickest resorts in my region of northern Thailand, where the musicians play off key, off beat, and would make a sick puppy curl up and die.

One thing which will happen, if Thais take over previously farang-run resorts - the quality of music will go from bad to worse.

My advice: Bring in Cubans or Brazilians to manage the music. That's just the tip of the music spectrum, as there are exciting and tasteful musicians from many other countries. It just seems that when God was handing out chromosomes for musical ability, She bypassed Asians.

Edited July 2, 2011 by maidu

[OzMick]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. .....

If a Foreigner marries a Thai girl and they buy land/house in the Thai Wifes name, the foreigner has to sign a document at the Land Office (when the House / Land is transferred from 1 owner to another) that states, that the money to buy the house/land was from the Wife before they got married. So I don't see a problem there.

You don't see a problem? When this first came out, it was stated that the property would be seized if the money to buy it came from the husband. If you have falsified the document, i.e. you actually paid for the land, and/or your wife can't prove where she got the money from other than from you, you lose it. If that's not a problem................

[Suradit]

This is going to do wonders for the real estate market here, just at a time when they need all the help they can get.

It seems the issue to which he refers (undoubtedly in Thai with translation by someone not especially qualified to translate) is:

land ownership through Thai "nominees"

,

which would appear to mean people who are circumventing the law through subterfuge, just as people who create sham businesses to purchase land do.

If the translation of his remarks is accurate, he certainly use hyperbole, but then politicians at times of elections have been known to do that even in Farang-utopia.

Thailand wants very much to hold on to its valuable assets. Even powerful countries like the US become upset when foreigners want to buy companies and real estate there at times of economic downturns or during raised security concerns, as when Dubai Ports wanted to buy into the US recently or even when the Japanese went on a buying spree in a previous economic downturn.

As happens so often when something is reported here at TV , some people blow it way out of proportion and become angry in a way that suggest they have been caught exploiting loopholes in the law. Thailand has never made a secret of the fact that they do not want land to be held by foreigners and allow foreign ownership only in very controlled ways that presumably will benefit Thailand first. Obviously many people want to buy here or it wouldn't be such an emotional issue and cause the entirely predictable collective hissy fit here at TV.

[hehehoho]

A billion rai? Although one American born foreigner probably does own that much.

[lannarebirth]

A billion rai? Although one American born foreigner probably does own that much.

Exactly! H e owns the vast majority of Thai land. A Land Department official told me a couple of years ago that only 14%-16% of titled land in Thailand is chanote. It all sounds like bullshit to me.

[OzMick]

It seems that the Democat party is going to lose the elections in Phuket too. First Bangkok, now Phuket. Time therefore to whip up populist sentiment. Did the land department gave out a list with the land, shoppiongcenters and hotels Thai elite holds abroad? Probably not.

It is not just the thai elite who own property abroad. My wife owns 3 residential properties (house and land) in Australia which are leased out. The income from these properties around 95 - 100,000 baht per month comes straight to Thailand. All perfectly legally and above board. Her sister and her father also now own properties in Australia. ( one each)

Tell them that when Thailand passes this law, Australia will do the same and seize all land owned by thais. Should be interesting! I am actually in favour of laws which treat Thais in the same manner that we are treated here.

[khaowong1]

This is nothing. It's a common politics as usual tactic. The same as done in the U.S. and Great Britain. Fear. That's what helps the govt control the people. George W. used it quite effectively. Once you have installed fear in the majority of the people, you can control them. Anyone with a brain knows that the nominee's of the land in Phuket is controlled by very powerful rich Thai/Chinese family's. This grandstanding is just a ploy to get the Thai's voting in the right direction. Once they get their party into power, it's back to business as usual.

[luvU2much500THB]

This is nothing. It's a common politics as usual tactic. The same as done in the U.S. and Great Britain. Fear. That's what helps the govt control the people. George W. used it quite effectively. Once you have installed fear in the majority of the people, you can control them. Anyone with a brain knows that the nominee's of the land in Phuket is controlled by very powerful rich Thai/Chinese family's. This grandstanding is just a ploy to get the Thai's voting in the right direction. Once they get their party into power, it's back to business as usual.

Excellent posting. Thumbs up :-)

[LTGTR]

This is TOO funny.Must be April Fools Day in July in Thailand.

[Balls]

"putting the national food supply in jeopardy"?

When all the foreigners and Thai partners get put away, will they tear down the investment hotels and plant durian on the beaches?

[TimTang]

...Anyone with a brain knows that the nominee's of the land in Phuket is controlled by very powerful rich Thai/Chinese family's...

That comes as a surprise to me! When I looked into this "nominee" land purchase procedure, I got the impression that the nominee's were poor Thais that were paid a couple hundred baht to sign a piece of paper and had very little or no idea what they were signing. I could be wrong but that was the impression I got from the Lawyer I was talking to.

Edited July 2, 2011 by TimTang

[scotto]

In oz we have an animal called a wombat all it does is eat roots and leaves,

this is what all so called falangs should do never invest in thailand what you are not prepared to throw away.

After losing everything to a oz lady and starting again with a thai girl (which i married and had a son) there is no way in hell

she will get a thing if she leaves, my house in oz is in my oldest sons name and my daughters name from first marriage(wife died)

once bitten twice shy!!!

we have a T.V advert in oz that says DRINK AND DRIVE and your a BLOODY IDIOT!!!!

there should be a T.V advert for Thailand BUY ANYTHING PROPERTY WISE AND YOU A BLOODY IDIOT!!!

I HOPE PEOPLE GET THE PICTURE FOR THERE OWN SAKE!!!!!!!!!

just my five cents worth

[huck]

I have no sympathy for foreigner investors who get screwed here in Thailand. Everybody knows the deal here. Even if this news break is 'tongue in cheek' foreigners have always been banned from owning land/ property . Try and and make it all legal through fancy names,accountants,lawyers and companies and this is what could happen. This is not the generous west ,This is Thailand.<BR>Thaksin is about to be re-elected by proxy and you can bet he will demand 46 billion baht be returned pronto! This country belongs to the rich Chinese- Thais. not us farangs. The only thing a western man can do legally in Thailand is marry a poor Isan girl and the government will gladly give you a worthless marriage certificate and her a Thai passport for passage to Europe. Take a useless isan wife to Europe and get her to send money back to Thailand every month. Farangs are considered a joke here .

Thailand already has a dubious reputation in the world.

By dubious, foreign governemnts basically find Thailand a criminal society run by a small elite.

So they welcome when this country is overthrown. Which will start soon with Thaksin coming back.

If Thailand deports foreigners and takes their land or companies in this case you will get an out cry from

foreign governments and there will reprecusoins for Thailand.

What I see here is some hollow words but no real action will take place.

[TimTang]

"putting the national food supply in jeopardy"?

When all the foreigners and Thai partners get put away, will they tear down the investment hotels and plant durian on the beaches?

The Thais are afraid that the falangs will buy up huge swaths of rice fields and turn them into golf courses, skateboard parks, BMX trails, and on the remainder plant orchards of money trees they're rumored to have.

[arthurwait]

I have no sympathy for foreigner investors who get screwed here in Thailand. Everybody knows the deal here. Even if this news break is 'tongue in cheek' foreigners have always been banned from owning land/ property . Try and and make it all legal through fancy names,accountants,lawyers and companies and this is what could happen. This is not the generous west ,This is Thailand.<BR>Thaksin is about to be re-elected by proxy and you can bet he will demand 46 billion baht be returned pronto! This country belongs to the rich Chinese- Thais. not us farangs. The only thing a western man can do legally in Thailand is marry a poor Isan girl and the government will gladly give you a worthless marriage certificate and her a Thai passport for passage to Europe. Take a useless isan wife to Europe and get her to send money back to Thailand every month. Farangs are considered a joke here .

You can legally marry rich Thai- Chinese woman as well.