Land Dept Claims 90% Of Prime Phuket Land Controlled By Foreigners

[ryladie99]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

Good point? thank you for your feedback. I do not own any property in Thailand except in America. Otherwise, I will get headache and do not know what to do ? My heart goes with all farangs who own properties and please find the ways to keep whatever you all have. Talk to Good Thai lawyers who are honest and sincere. Do not go for the crook one. Share information with each other then you all can survive. My take and opinion.

[MILT]

"So Long it's been a gas, wish I could stay awile longer" do whop do whop do whop. Spent my money in the kingdom, sittin on my beach fighting off the fleas Do whop do whop do whop 'If I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all. Some came here because they can all live in the shadows quite comfortably. Well what do now? Think about it, if all of our own countries had such laws, they would be enforcing them and we would all be cheering them on. We all would be bitching about how foriegners are taking over. Oh wait I think I have heard this mentioned in the US, UK, eccedera eccedera eccedera

[pkspeaker]

On the other hand if re-sale values are slashed it would make it easier for many Thai's to be able to afford to own a house, or nicer house in the first place.

All Thai people who currently own land need to realize that the value of their land is at stake in this situation. The resale value of their land would be slashed dramatically if a significant segment of the market was eliminated. It is simple supply and demand economics.

........

[ryladie99]

All Thai people who currently own land need to realize that the value of their land is at stake in this situation. The resale value of their land would be slashed dramatically if a significant segment of the market was eliminated. It is simple supply and demand economics.

- Assuming the official wasn't just chest beating (he was) any fall in value would be from an inflated foreigner price anyway so who cares?

If it is really the case that a significant percentage of Thai land is controlled by foreigners and that segment of the market has their land confiscated or is forced to sell, then this will have the tragic consequences for all legitimate Thai owners. In order for property prices to remain stable and Thai investors to realize a gain on their real estate investments, the market needs the same or *more* buyers, and increased capital inflow, not the opposite. Thailand's Xenophobic, protectionist tendencies are archaic and actually hurt the Thai economy.

- Its actually corruption which hurts the 'Thai economy' most but those with the power are only interested in helping their own economies.

Investors are quite hesitant to invest in any asset unless they know they will have some serious degree of control over that asset.

- The foreigner section of the Thai real estate markets shows there is no such hesitancy.

Therefore, Thailand must seriously re-evaluate the outdated notion that foreigners should not be allowed to directly invest in Thai property. Why are Thai investors any better for Thailand than foreign investors? Does being born in this country somehow make them inherently loyal or lacking in corruption.

- It's protectionism for the sake of interested parties. There is no need to re-evaluate anything (seriously or otherwise) for as long as the right Thai pockets get filled.

Looking at certain recent Thai political leaders, it seems quite the opposite is true.

- Only recent political leaders and what about other types of leaders?

Yet, many foreigners chose to leave their home countries forever because they love Thailand and Thai people -- many of these people are fiercely loyal to Thailand.

- So loyal they break the law. Even if they were loyal who cares what they think?

Most all first world nations, including the USA have allowed direct ownership of land by foreigners for years; this has not hurt food production there at all. However, regardless, if that is a concern for Thailand, then they should have special protections for rice fields and farmland. But ownership of beachfront property in Phuket has no relationship whatsoever to food production.

- Sovereignty allows for differing and non-reciprocal laws. As to the mention of the USA they are hardly the paradigm.

Thailand made the right move a few years ago when the government created the condominium act, wherein foreigners can directly own up to 49% of the units in a condo complex with the other 51% owned by Thais.

- Unit floor space not units.

That has brought in countless billions of baht to Thailand from foreigners who otherwise would never have invested here.

- It's not 'countless' and is not that significant anyway. You overstae the importance of condos.

This is all good for the Thai economy. Why not offer additional special options for foreigners along these same lines in order to promote sales of larger, higher-end real estate. For example, why not allow developers who meet certain requirements to build communities of homes/villas for which 49% of those properties can be sold to foreigners directly in their own name, so long as the other 51% of those homes are sold to Thais.

- Because they can't be trusted, they already can't refrain from breaking the current law.

Additionally, the Thai legislature should enact laws to further protect Thai people's right to enter into long-term leases or renewals of a land lease. Currently, Thai leases are limited to just 30 years, which is much too short a time for any investor to be interested. Even 90 years is too short, because it means that once inherited by the lessee's children, their possession of the property may terminate in the middle of their life. Therefore, leases can only have approximately the same value as ownership if their length can be long enough to protect subsequent inheritance by the lessee's heirs. Leases should be protected by statute for as many terms as the Thai owner wants to offer -- this will have the effect of increasing the value of their property and increasing the capital inflow to Thailand. Since under a lease the property remains owned by a Thai person, there are no ownership issues, so the government needs to codify these inherent rights of the Thai land owners, providing a law which clearly states they have the right to renew their lease any number of times they wish, or more simply, offer a lease of any length they want. The Thai land owner's right to offer a lease of say, 180 years or whatever term they want, should be legislatively protected.

- Why 'should' they? Foreigners have bought without longer leases. Sure more could be sold but can you imagine the THB price given the already hyper inflated figures for dwindling assets. Set that off against the price of giving foreigners anymore rights and comfort and you'll see why it won't happen.

Big assumption here is the Thai thinks logically like the Westerner. This where the argument breaks down. Most Thais will think about whats in it for them before they think about the greater good (like the country or benefit to Thai people). You can be sure some Thais will personally benefit from a land grab back from foreigners. The foreigners will loose their investment and more than likely the transfer of ownership will quietly happen at a considerably less than market price. Some involved in this will most certainly sell the land on and make a sizeable profit. So like most things in Thailand this is about money, with a small handful of people benefiting. The foreigner with no rights is an easy target. Even Abhisit with his British upbringing and education has to bend his ways to the Thai mindset.

Farang and Thai land owners need to reunite and help each other by Exchanging information and standing tall for their interests. Do not allow the Rich to grab what is not belong to them. We all know they have enough to go around and I do not understand Why do land owners in Thailand want to give them even more. Time to lobby, block and stop this nonsense law to initiate or pass. I have live in America many years and we do not have as such laws. My take and opinion.

[kevbap]

this weekend i have a new 'mia noi' her name is 'Tou Yen' she looks after my beer !

[trogers]

On the other hand if re-sale values are slashed it would make it easier for many Thai's to be able to afford to own a house, or nicer house in the first place.

All Thai people who currently own land need to realize that the value of their land is at stake in this situation. The resale value of their land would be slashed dramatically if a significant segment of the market was eliminated. It is simple supply and demand economics.

........

Values are only on the books, and only realised when assets are bought and sold. And high property values may not be as great as you think, using the very high cost of housing in Singapore as an example.

http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=46807

[Chupup]

The 5 properties I've secured are all non-chanod, and all were rural, and so covered in prickly weeds 3 meters high, that a person could not take 3 steps on any one of them. Now, via years of lots of work by me and hired help (I pay twice minimum wage), all 3 parcels are like parks - landscaped and beautiful - with some wild wonderful birds & a few wild animals coming to take shelter.

How to get Thais to learn how to deal considerately with their rural land? I don't know. Maybe by showing them examples of how things could be?

How to get Thais to appreciate the bounty of nature that could be theirs, if they weren't so busy destroying or abandoning it? I don't know.

They certainly won't get any inspiration in that dept from the Shinawatres (or the slew of other politicians), who only think of how to amass power and get richer, and never make any mention of environmental husbandry.

You don't know much do you

[captspectre]

There is no way I will ever put money into Thai assets, because I think it's inevitable that a government will find an excuse one day to seize it in the name of nationalism.

Dodgy people, dodgy institutions, dodgy laws, dodgy governments and politicians = foreigner beware.

so very true! Ilearned this lesson forty years ago, it is the chinese and other asians who are buyiong up most of the land and they seem to get away with it so far>

the europeans and westerners are the whipping boys!

[ExpatJ]

LOL....anyone who invests 1 cent in the idiotic Country is a complete numbskull..from the stockmarket down to the dirt you will be screwed 1 way or another

Well i made a 30% return on the stock market last year and Thai stocks have some of the biggest dividends in the world- i would say you'd be a fool NOT to invest here...

[Markaew]

Why are we even reacting to this? Obviously an elections ploy. They made similar threats about stopping over 50 foreigners from marrying their women that never came about months ago. We are like the Jews in Germany years ago. We are a convenient target for a unified hate. The Thais believe Nazi Germany was a good thing and admire it's history. It relates.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Markaew

[Markaew]

Well what good for the Goose is certainly good for the Gander: Every country in the west should nationalize all foreign investments that the Thai People have that are not citizens of the any country in the west, and deport the Thails. Whats fair is fair.

I certainly wish that would happen. Threat the expat Thai the same way we are treated here.

[garyk]

Just a smart move pushed by land owners looking to buy cheap and sell high. But I think only select properties are in question. Not home owners. And married to a Thai. No problems for sure. I would be surprised if much came of it. I live in Thailand but have a nice home in America. I will never sell my home and never buy there. I am happy as a clam. After I weeded out the women that wanted a home and car. I finally found a real jem here.

[harrycallahan]

Putting the obvious hyperbole aside, I don't really have a problem with the law being enforced. Foreigners aren't permitted to own land, they do so now via a loophole. I wish my country Australia took a more nationalistic approach to land ownernship.

[scotbeve]

so the 40 people who own 12% of Thailand's wealth want a bit more?

i seem to remember something like this emerging from Phuket before - methinks some official has got a bit of a complex? (forgive the pun)

And let's not forget all the land purchased by the hi-so's which is actually government land. Land tax??? Ha!!! That will NEVER go through the House!

[scania]

"putting the national food supply in jeopardy"?

;-) I had to read this two time´s ;-) And obviously you did as well. How does that work??? hahaha

I don´t know how many time´s I read the new´s over here and think "wait is it April the first" and i´m not joking.

[lannarebirth]

"putting the national food supply in jeopardy"?

;-) I had to read this two time´s ;-) And obviously you did as well. How does that work??? hahaha

I don´t know how many time´s I read the new´s over here and think "wait is it April the first" and i´m not joking.

I think he's referring to Thaksin's plan to sell large swaths of Isaan to the Saudis to ensure their "food security". Just another Thaksin self dealing scheme. If he makes it back again see similar proposals to sell land to his new friends the African despots he's in the Blood Diamond/Gold business with.

[Berkshire]

The whining here is quite ridiculous. Everyone understood that the intent of Thai law was to prevent foreigner ownership of Thai land. So, some foreigners cleverly set up their fake companies to exploit a supposed loophole allowing them to violate the expressed intent of Thai law. And, lo and behold, eventually the Thais get around to fixing the loophole and punishing the foreigners. Seemed inevitable to me. Foreigners don't have a right to own Thai land. Period. If you want to own land buy it somewhere else. The same thing happened in Mexico where foreigners were not allowed to own oceanfront land. But the law wasn't enforced. Americans loved buying up oceanfront property in Mexico because it was so cheap! Then one day the Mexican government confiscated it all. There were a lot of weeping gringos in those days.

Spot on.

[farang000999]

This is going to do wonders for the real estate market here, just at a time when they need all the help they can get.

hey could seize all the land, not change the current laws and resell it all next week to farang with thai nominees. there are an absolute endless number of farang fish ready to hang themselves. ive been warning farang against this for years.

[blabla1]

OH DEAR...They'll have no feet left to shoot soon...

[spidermike007]

I have no sympathy for foreigner investors who get screwed here in Thailand. Everybody knows the deal here. Even if this news break is 'tongue in cheek' foreigners have always been banned from owning land/ property . Try and and make it all legal through fancy names,accountants,lawyers and companies and this is what could happen. This is not the generous west ,This is Thailand.<BR>Thaksin is about to be re-elected by proxy and you can bet he will demand 46 billion baht be returned pronto! This country belongs to the rich Chinese- Thais. not us farangs. The only thing a western man can do legally in Thailand is marry a poor Isan girl and the government will gladly give you a worthless marriage certificate and her a Thai passport for passage to Europe. Take a useless isan wife to Europe and get her to send money back to Thailand every month. Farangs are considered a joke here .

You are an extremely bitter man. My heart goes out to you. It must be difficult to wake up in the morning, inside your head. Take an aspirin. Take a vacation. Get out of Thailand for awhile. Meet some nice people. Do whatever you have to do, but stop inflicting your constipated ideas of the world on those that have found a place to live that we enjoy. As for your comment on useless Issan women, I will not even dignify that bit of racist garbage with a reply. Get a life, you waste of a human being!

[ROMANOBA]

Exactly.So basically foreitgners will be punished for having pumped money in Thailand's economy!...This kind of protecionism could make some sense 30 years ago, when the price of land in prime locations in Thailand was substantially lower than in Europe or America, but now that the square meter price in Phuket is higher than in Manhattan or London this sounds ridiculous.Somebody want to grab some overprized lot for peanuts...Furthermore therr asre two kinds of foreigners investing here in Thailand: multinationals, owning hotels in prime location, and those are out of the scope of this disussion.And retired people having bought small lots in the village of their ' shark', and those people will be an easy target, without any doubt....

More legislation...

Just what's needed.

Bad Bad foreigners, investing all that money and making the economy grow... Very bad for Thailand. They should feel the full force of the law for their crimes.

[taff33]

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

One way to get an extra tick on your postings :jerk:

[harrycallahan]

"No citizen of a foreign land shall be entitled to rights or privelages that are beyond those afforded foreigners in their own country of citizenship"....just imagine how that would reshape the world!!!!

I've thought of this very idea myself before (and have a post on another site to prove it!).

For practicalities sake I propose a few tiers of priviledge afforded, just 3-4 is enough. With over 100 countries in the world each having different laws you can't be too particular, just lump them in the group that best approximates what the home nations citizens may enjoy in the foreign nation. Obviously the bottom group affords no permanent residence or property ownership.

It makes perfect sense, so don't expect to see it become a reality.

[ableguy]

Old news. I think someone didn't get their fair share and decided to "rattle" things up a bit.

But i'm pretty sure the officials will go after the little fish first, retirees and so forth,... you know... to show that they are "hard" at work at finding the "bad" guys.

Don't you just love greed!

They will also be selective in finding prime sites for themselves and cohorts, things never change some land will be grabbed and then it will all blow over unless the police in Pattaya get in on the act then watch out.

[ableguy]

I have no sympathy for foreigner investors who get screwed here in Thailand. Everybody knows the deal here. Even if this news break is 'tongue in cheek' foreigners have always been banned from owning land/ property . Try and and make it all legal through fancy names,accountants,lawyers and companies and this is what could happen. This is not the generous west ,This is Thailand.<BR>Thaksin is about to be re-elected by proxy and you can bet he will demand 46 billion baht be returned pronto! This country belongs to the rich Chinese- Thais. not us farangs. The only thing a western man can do legally in Thailand is marry a poor Isan girl and the government will gladly give you a worthless marriage certificate and her a Thai passport for passage to Europe. Take a useless isan wife to Europe and get her to send money back to Thailand every month. Farangs are considered a joke here .

You are an extremely bitter man. My heart goes out to you. It must be difficult to wake up in the morning, inside your head. Take an aspirin. Take a vacation. Get out of Thailand for awhile. Meet some nice people. Do whatever you have to do, but stop inflicting your constipated ideas of the world on those that have found a place to live that we enjoy. As for your comment on useless Issan women, I will not even dignify that bit of racist garbage with a reply. Get a life, you waste of a human being!

The post is not demeening Issan girls , perhaps its you who needs a pill.

[Nawtier]

Maybe we can buy some cheap beachfront repo land soon.

[PEP]

" Prime" Phuket land - - -Now that is a real contradiction of terms!

[Beetlejuice]

Foreigners that finance these lands already know of the laws regarding ownerships of buildings and lands in Thailand, otherwise why would they use Thais to front the ownership for them?

I believe the statements made by the Land Department and that this is widespread across the whole of Thailand.

Even on Thai visa many are quite open about the fact that they are the real purchasers of buildings, land business premises and farms. This is because so far the authorities have not been strictly enforcing the laws regarding foreigners and land ownership.

This is not something new, these laws have been in place for decades, so those that do break the laws of Thailand, whether they agree with them or not, do so at their own risk and there is no point in whinging just because the authorities suddenly decide to enforce these laws.

In most cases here in Thailand foreigners have no claims on the homes, business premises or farms and the land they build them on.

If a foreigner is willing to gamble on paying for land, which they can never own in a Thai name, then more fool them.

Let me make some facts clear to you:

In most cases if a farang male is married to a Thai female and land and property is purchased, it has to be proven to be the wife’s money. If the couple are not married, then it belongs 100% to the girlfriend, as the farang cannot make a claim to something that legally he cannot own.

If you don`t believe this, then suck it and see.

[Nawtier]

I really do hope this country shoots itself in the foot just one more time...

[enuff said]

.

Why are we even reacting to this? Obviously an elections ploy. They made similar threats about stopping over 50 foreigners from marrying their women that never came about months ago. We are like the Jews in Germany years ago. We are a convenient target for a unified hate. The Thais believe Nazi Germany was a good thing and admire it's history. It relates.

Dear Markaew,

The "threats" you are referring to were an APRIL FOOLS joke. You are sadly misinformed and know nothing of Thai people.

'nuff said

~