Thaksin Allies In Thai Election Landslide: Exit Polls

[wolf5370]

The polite addresses last night, the quick formation of coalition that usually takes ages and the standing down of the Dem top two. Everything seems so smooth almost choreographed about this handover. Long may it remain this way

Everything was planned in advance by the invisible hand. Sondhi had to take away votes from the democrats. Phua Thai had to win, the only way to keep the red shirts from the streets. Now comes the tricky part for the Phua Thai. They have promised so much they can't deliver so within a year the people will be disappointed. There will be many problems for Phua Thai because of the red shirt leaders. If they want to find the truth there can be no double standards and the red shirt leaders don't want to see the whole truth.

Oh come now - how many promises did TRT make when in power that did not happen - hub of everything, first world status, end to poverty, 30 baht medical (set up but not paid for), red light zones (on land compulsarily bought by the Gov and sold to his wife for peanuts) and so on...same ca be said of almost everywhere I guess, the UK papers are full of manifesto u-turns and always have been - that's politics - the new Gov always has the old excuse that they did not know just how bad it actually was until thry gained office.

There will be excuses found - delays, rewriting of promises, misdirection (Cambodia and/or Burma is the usual one here - as is Southern incursions and drugs) - by the time of the next election the electorate will remeber nothing of the promises made pre-this-election and only the poropaganda about what has been achieved and a whole new set of promises - that's politics!

[Lancelot]

I refuse to accept that Thaksin was criminal. He didn't get the fair trial since the beginning.

All the times he's spent in Dubai, he has spent money and time on attacking his opponents and doing all he can to discredit them.

Not once (to my knowledge) has he made a concerted effort to prove his innocence and clear his name. Of all the media outlets that would love to see evidence of his innocence and an unfair trial, we have seen nothing. Surely, proving his innocence would be the most important thing to clear up but he hasn't.

Why do you think that is?

Thaksin is just Thaksin. He has made some brilliant moves (Yingluck) but he is also human and some times as humans we over reach. Going back to the sale of AIS and taxes due, IMHO he missed an opportunity in that he could have humbly opened up and declared that while he transfered ownership in full compliance with Thai law, he would voluntarily remit taxes due to the treasury, charities, etc.-and challenge all other tax avoiders to follow his selfless example. After all, every one loves Thailand, right?

The second opportunity would be to return to Thailand and voluntarily serve the two year sentence in a luxury detention facility (OK, one could be built ) Of course he would have the bully pulpit and could preach to other wrong doers to man up and do the time. Now people being people no one would actually come forward and pay their debts to society but these selfless moves would surely throw his detractors.

Then again the safest option is to whisper in to Yingluks's ear...

In any case, check out the activity in this thread. While some posters may love Thailand, never think that Thailand loves you and at the end of the day we expats don't have a dog in this fight. Its a Thai issue and will be resolved with a Thai solution

Edited July 4, 2011 by Lancelot

[wolf5370]

Happy to see the Thai people elect who *they* want & not some installed by military action type puppet.

That aside....I also think many voters all over the world these days will vote based on memories of better times...or in search of better times as the world is slipping into an economic abyss.

Yet sadly for most it is akin to a bus that has driven off a cliff & it does not much matter if you switch drivers. ( tough economic times ahead for all )

Albeit Asian countries do seem much better positioned than others to possibly have a safer landing.

Lastly the driver who is fortunate enough to have been in the seat during said safe landing will become immortalized.

Sadly, they seem to be voting for the party with the biggest "bribes", which is precisely why the west is in the poo now. For too many years voters have gone for whichever party offers the most goodies, not the one that offers good governance and a balanced budget. Look at Greece and Ireland for the end result of out of control government incompetence and voter greed. Completely self inflicted and totally deserved.

If the PT attempts to fulfill their election bribes they can only do it by going into debt, and they will end up in the same poo as the west.

Of course Thailand CAN afford debt - it has an excellent credit rating, good reserves, strong ecconmy and is well positioned with China etc. Thanksin paid off the IMF loans which everyone said would be a weight around Thailand's neck for decades.

This election has had me thinking - why do we expats (and those with a Thai committment - like a Thai spouse/kids/etc) generally dislike Thaksin so much. Sure the stories of corruption come up time and time again, but that is true of almost every Gov here ever - also true of our own parliaments too at some point (UK mass expenses fraud for a very recent example) . I have been trying to think of reasons for this (and reasons against it) and the best I came truely come up with is that a] Its fairly current and b] that possibly for the first time, we have been inundated with these stories of corruption and told how bad he is.

Other than making his fortune much bigger and possibly the selling of the countries sat coms to Singapore, what did he do that hurt the country or its people? War on drugs? Army incompetance puitting 90 Muslim suspects in a box van without proper ventilation? I am also sure that given such a list, we could make an equally d4mning one of every long term leader going back (both here and possibly in our own countries too). Is it all just fear? fear that he was on his way to meglomania and despotism? Can we be so sure he was? Sure we can all regurgitate the myriad of stories (Chinese whispers) we had heard over and over - is this any different from the positive propoganda given out by the pro-Thaksin camp?

From the personal point of view at home - would you care if you read "1,000 drug dealers dead in war on drugs" or " accidental death of Muslim terrorists locked in van following arrest" ? Sure that's what they read - think our press would put it differently in our countries if the same happened there too? I am sure with a pretty high confidence that in my country the paper of the masses (The Sun) would report it just so - and probably with a clever headline too. Think about it!

[wolf5370]

I refuse to accept that Thaksin was criminal. He didn't get the fair trial since the beginning.

All the times he's spent in Dubai, he has spent money and time on attacking his opponents and doing all he can to discredit them.

Not once (to my knowledge) has he made a concerted effort to prove his innocence and clear his name. Of all the media outlets that would love to see evidence of his innocence and an unfair trial, we have seen nothing. Surely, proving his innocence would be the most important thing to clear up but he hasn't.

Why do you think that is?

Thaksin is just Thaksin. He has made some brilliant moves (Yingluck) but he is also human and some times as humans we over reach. Going back to the sale of AIS and taxes due, IMHO he missed an opportunity in that he could have humbly opened up and declared that while he transfered ownership in full compliance with Thai law, he would voluntarily remit taxes due to the treasury, charities, etc.-and challenge all other tax avoiders to follow his selfless example. After all, every one loves Thailand, right?

The second opportunity would be to return to Thailand and voluntarily serve the two year sentence in a luxury detention facility (OK, one could be built ) Of course he would have the bully pulpit and could preach to other wrong doers to man up and do the time. Now people being people no one would actually come forward and pay their debts to society but these selfless moves would surely throw his detractors.

Then again the safest option is to whisper in to Yingluks's ear...

In any case, check out the activity in this thread. While some posters may love Thailand, never think that Thailand loves you and at the end of the day we expats don't have a dog in this fight. Its a Thai issue and will be resolved with a Thai solution

I think the problem with the second opportunity would be his admission of guilt - and thus lock out from being an MP. I am sure house arrest would have been arranged (or possibly even suspended sentance) due to his status and possibility of harm in prison etc, but he would loose too much by admitting to being a criminal (not to mention support too). He is a very wiley person who really understands the Thai mentality - this is why he is so loved and can gender such support even when he has been away for so long! I believe he was waiting for today - for a time when he could grasp power again (albeit by proxy) and have the sentances quashed as part of some plot against him - once quashed, he is free to resume politics in his own right. Too many under-estimate that man.

//Edit: My fear is that his not-so-smart enemies are left with few options now - some may be too used to power and getting their way to live with the current state of affairs and possible reprisals. The danger being they choose a more perminant solution - one from the end of a barrell perhaps - and imagine what civil reaction that would likely cause!!! //

Edited July 4, 2011 by wolf5370

[Lancelot]

I think the problem with the second opportunity would be his admission of guilt - and thus lock out from being an MP.

Valid point Wolf.

However, he could plead that while he vehemently maintains his innocence, he would tearfully -and publicly- proclaim his love for the Thai people and submit to this wrongful incarceration because of his love for the country. A page out of Machiavelli's play book.

Then, at some point in the future when Yingluck's health or other equally personal reasons preventing her to continue as PM, private citizen Thaksin would reluctantly answer the peoples call to lead. Might be a little more difficult for the military to twice depose a man that voluntarily sacrificed his wealth -and freedom- to the country and people he truly loves...

In any case, we do live in interesting times

[Moonrakers]

I think the problem with the second opportunity would be his admission of guilt - and thus lock out from being an MP.

Valid point Wolf.

However, he could plead that while he vehemently maintains his innocence, he would tearfully -and publicly- proclaim his love for the Thai people and submit to this wrongful incarceration because of his love for the country. A page out of Machiavelli's play book.

Then, at some point in the future when Yingluck's health or other equally personal reasons preventing her to continue as PM, private citizen Thaksin would reluctantly answer the peoples call to lead. Might be a little more difficult for the military to twice depose a man that voluntarily sacrificed his wealth -and freedom- to the country and people he truly loves...

In any case, we do live in interesting times

Isn't it reassuring to know Thailand can rely on such a benevolent and altruistic citizen to answer to their call.

[Thaddeus]

Oh come now - how many promises did TRT make when in power that did not happen - hub of everything, first world status, end to poverty, 30 baht medical (set up but not paid for), red light zones (on land compulsarily bought by the Gov and sold to his wife for peanuts) and so on...same ca be said of almost everywhere I guess, the UK papers are full of manifesto u-turns and always have been - that's politics - the new Gov always has the old excuse that they did not know just how bad it actually was until thry gained office.

There will be excuses found - delays, rewriting of promises, misdirection (Cambodia and/or Burma is the usual one here - as is Southern incursions and drugs) - by the time of the next election the electorate will remeber nothing of the promises made pre-this-election and only the poropaganda about what has been achieved and a whole new set of promises - that's politics!

That is very true, but doesn't the forgetting part depend on the size of the promise and the feebleness of the excuses when it fails to come to fruition.

I expect very few people in Greece right now will be forgetting the last 12 months any time soon, or the 12 months/years to come for that matter.

[Lancelot]

I think the problem with the second opportunity would be his admission of guilt - and thus lock out from being an MP.

Valid point Wolf.

However, he could plead that while he vehemently maintains his innocence, he would tearfully -and publicly- proclaim his love for the Thai people and submit to this wrongful incarceration because of his love for the country. A page out of Machiavelli's play book.

Then, at some point in the future when Yingluck's health or other equally personal reasons preventing her to continue as PM, private citizen Thaksin would reluctantly answer the peoples call to lead. Might be a little more difficult for the military to twice depose a man that voluntarily sacrificed his wealth -and freedom- to the country and people he truly loves...

In any case, we do live in interesting times

Isn't it reassuring to know Thailand can rely on such a benevolent and altruistic citizen to answer to their call.

True patriots serve when asked

[Thaddeus]

From the personal point of view at home - would you care if you read "1,000 drug dealers dead in war on drugs" or " accidental death of Muslim terrorists locked in van following arrest" ? Sure that's what they read - think our press would put it differently in our countries if the same happened there too? I am sure with a pretty high confidence that in my country the paper of the masses (The Sun) would report it just so - and probably with a clever headline too. Think about it!

If it was The Daily Mail one of them would read.

"Muslims cause cancer, experimental remedy tried"

[musiclover]

Thaksin does not represent division. The Thai people keep voting for him and his party. They are not divided.

It is the minority who abuse their guns and tanks and influence who see Thaksin as a severe threat to their continued existence as "privileged".

Thailand was not divided by Thaksin, it is the freedom and liberty that was in the process of giving to Thai's that represented a threat the minority could not take anymore.

The minority have tried to divide the country since 2006 - but the single biggest thing that unites the normal Thai people is Thaksin - which is why they keep winning elections.

Can you not grasp that principle of election and democracy ????

Not divided you say? 38 percent of votes voted PTP. Not divided you say?

Another factor completely ignored by the media is the actual mandate Thaksin's party, who claims the majority of Thais stand behind, has to run the country. Out of Thailand's eligible voters, only 74% actually came out to vote. Of that 74%, Thaksin's party secured only 263 of 500 seats in the parliament, a mere 52% of the parliament with many of these seats won by very slim margins. 52% of the 74% that bothered to even vote gives Thaksin's Peua Thai Party (PTP) a mere 38% mandate, a far flung, embarrassingly low number for a party that claims support from the majority of the nation.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

Well JT that explains a lot about your views if you give a link to that rightwing bigot spewing lies and hatred!

[ballpoint]

I think the problem with the second opportunity would be his admission of guilt - and thus lock out from being an MP.

Valid point Wolf.

However, he could plead that while he vehemently maintains his innocence, he would tearfully -and publicly- proclaim his love for the Thai people and submit to this wrongful incarceration because of his love for the country. A page out of Machiavelli's play book.

Then, at some point in the future when Yingluck's health or other equally personal reasons preventing her to continue as PM, private citizen Thaksin would reluctantly answer the peoples call to lead. Might be a little more difficult for the military to twice depose a man that voluntarily sacrificed his wealth -and freedom- to the country and people he truly loves...

In any case, we do live in interesting times

Isn't it reassuring to know Thailand can rely on such a benevolent and altruistic citizen to answer to their call.

True patriots serve when asked

The last person who "volunteered" to step in as an unelected PM to "solve" a crisis was Suchinda back in 1992. Anyone whose knowledge of Thai history goes back before the 2006 coup will know what happened then. The 20th anniversary is coming up next year. Chamlong is still alive and very much kicking. If gambling wasn't illegal I'd say "gentlemen, place your bets".

[ballpoint]

Well JT that explains a lot about your views if you give a link to that rightwing bigot spewing lies and hatred!

Oh, the irony.

[Jingthing]

Thaksin does not represent division. The Thai people keep voting for him and his party. They are not divided.

It is the minority who abuse their guns and tanks and influence who see Thaksin as a severe threat to their continued existence as "privileged".

Thailand was not divided by Thaksin, it is the freedom and liberty that was in the process of giving to Thai's that represented a threat the minority could not take anymore.

The minority have tried to divide the country since 2006 - but the single biggest thing that unites the normal Thai people is Thaksin - which is why they keep winning elections.

Can you not grasp that principle of election and democracy ????

Not divided you say? 38 percent of votes voted PTP. Not divided you say?

Another factor completely ignored by the media is the actual mandate Thaksin's party, who claims the majority of Thais stand behind, has to run the country. Out of Thailand's eligible voters, only 74% actually came out to vote. Of that 74%, Thaksin's party secured only 263 of 500 seats in the parliament, a mere 52% of the parliament with many of these seats won by very slim margins. 52% of the 74% that bothered to even vote gives Thaksin's Peua Thai Party (PTP) a mere 38% mandate, a far flung, embarrassingly low number for a party that claims support from the majority of the nation.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

Well JT that explains a lot about your views if you give a link to that rightwing bigot spewing lies and hatred!

Nope. It does nothing of the kind! Did I endorse his website? Did I endorse his politics? NO! I did no such thing. I posted that text because I thought his info about the NUMBERS was interesting. Are you saying his numbers are wrong? Fine, show us exactly HOW they are wrong. That would be a relevant reply instead of insulting me personally with a false accusation. About that blogs politics. I find it rather BIZARRE. Yes, its anti-Thaksin but if you actually bothered reading it, there is no way you could easily label it right wing particularly. The guy is obsessed with opposing globalism and corporate power. How right wing is that? In my view, people favoring more power to corps are the right wing ones. I think the guy defies an easy label, but closer to LEFT wing to right, for sure. Don't spend time arguing that anyway, I quoted it for the NUMBERS, that's it, end of story.

Next ...

Edited July 4, 2011 by Jingthing

[themockrat]

With all the anti-Thaksin farang cannons blasting away at Thaksin and Puea Thai over the past years, weeks and days, he still won the election. Don't you guys realize that your opinion doesn't count anything? Quit fighting please and accept the choice that Thais have made.

:jap:

[musiclover]

Well JT that explains a lot about your views if you give a link to that rightwing bigot spewing lies and hatred!

Oh, the irony.

Thats an interesting reply and I wonder if my inference from that cryptic remark is correct?

It would explain a lot!!

[Jingthing]

With all the anti-Thaksin farang cannons blasting away at Thaksin and Puea Thai over the past years, weeks and days, he still won the election. Don't you guys realize that your opinion doesn't count anything? Quit fighting please and accept the choice that Thais have made.

:jap:

Accepted but not celebrating. OK with you? How does it work that a criminal fugitive wins an election? That's off the map of political normality.

[wolf5370]

From the personal point of view at home - would you care if you read "1,000 drug dealers dead in war on drugs" or " accidental death of Muslim terrorists locked in van following arrest" ? Sure that's what they read - think our press would put it differently in our countries if the same happened there too? I am sure with a pretty high confidence that in my country the paper of the masses (The Sun) would report it just so - and probably with a clever headline too. Think about it!

If it was The Daily Mail one of them would read.

"Muslims cause cancer, experimental remedy tried"

lol - now that was funny - my dad is an avid Mail reader (and gets awfully upset when I take the pee!)

[themockrat]

With all the anti-Thaksin farang cannons blasting away at Thaksin and Puea Thai over the past years, weeks and days, he still won the election. Don't you guys realize that your opinion doesn't count anything? Quit fighting please and accept the choice that Thais have made.

:jap:

Accepted but not celebrating. OK with you? How does it work that a criminal fugitive wins an election? That's off the map of political normality.

A criminal, convicted by who? His opponents?

Thaksin was charged and prosecuted by the AEC (Assets Examination Committee), which was appointed by the military junta that lead the coup against Thaksin. There were 12 members on the AEC. Have you looked up who they were? They are all long-time critics of Thaksin and several of them are PAD members, most of them are members of the Democrat party. One of them (Banjerd Singkaneti) even publicly compared Thaksin to Hitler in 2006.

These are the people who charged Thaksin. Now, I ask you again, how legitimate was Thaksin's conviction.

[LevelHead]

With all the anti-Thaksin farang cannons blasting away at Thaksin and Puea Thai over the past years, weeks and days, he still won the election. Don't you guys realize that your opinion doesn't count anything? Quit fighting please and accept the choice that Thais have made.

:jap:

Accepted but not celebrating. OK with you? How does it work that a criminal fugitive wins an election? That's off the map of political normality.

A criminal, convicted by who? His opponents?

Thaksin was charged and prosecuted by the AEC (Assets Examination Committee), which was appointed by the military junta that lead the coup against Thaksin. There were 12 members on the AEC. Have you looked up who they were? They are all long-time critics of Thaksin and several of them are PAD members, most of them are members of the Democrat party. One of them (Banjerd Singkaneti) even publicly compared Thaksin to Hitler in 2006.

These are the people who charged Thaksin. Now, I ask you again, how legitimate was Thaksin's conviction.

Well said !!

The truth is out there if you really want to see it.

[davidkia]

mr member get a life yr not even Thai, you should agree with the morjority of the Thai people if you agree with a democratic society ! ( for my part i give this party all my best and if it dosen't work out then another vote will follow ). you are a guest ack like one !

[Nisa]

mr member get a life yr not even Thai, you should agree with the morjority of the Thai people if you agree with a democratic society ! ( for my part i give this party all my best and if it dosen't work out then another vote will follow ). you are a guest ack like one !

My Mr. Member will continue to do what it does regardless of who is running the show in Thailand.

[bf2002]

Why should he?

To even acknowledge their politically drummed up charges would be a sign of guilt. Innocent people get angry when they are screwed over by liars.

So he did to them what the did to him....and now they are losing.....good for him......let's see if the yellows and the green group make the final blunder and try a coup.....they will be seeing guys with blue helmets and big planes with bombs if they try it again.....assuming the ASEAN nations don'ts step in like the UN will ask for.....I'm sure Cambodia would just love to help out!

It's time these "generals" stopped trying to create another Burma.

I refuse to accept that Thaksin was criminal. He didn't get the fair trial since the beginning.

All the times he's spent in Dubai, he has spent money and time on attacking his opponents and doing all he can to discredit them.

Not once (to my knowledge) has he made a concerted effort to prove his innocence and clear his name. Of all the media outlets that would love to see evidence of his innocence and an unfair trial, we have seen nothing. Surely, proving his innocence would be the most important thing to clear up but he hasn't.

Why do you think that is?

[michaeljordan]

Why should he?

To even acknowledge their politically drummed up charges would be a sign of guilt. Innocent people get angry when they are screwed over by liars.

So he did to them what the did to him....and now they are losing.....good for him......let's see if the yellows and the green group make the final blunder and try a coup.....they will be seeing guys with blue helmets and big planes with bombs if they try it again.....assuming the ASEAN nations don'ts step in like the UN will ask for.....I'm sure Cambodia would just love to help out!

It's time these "generals" stopped trying to create another Burma.

I refuse to accept that Thaksin was criminal. He didn't get the fair trial since the beginning.

The lust for power is so great as to be completely insane. No elections matter to the one side.

No matter how many times they lose elections to their opponents, they simply refuse to give in to the will of the people.

They control the media and the internet in Thailand. They threaten and distort. They call the newly elected group crimminal even before they take office. Funny thing is they have said this in a never ending stream of government contoled and threatenned media for 7 years now.

Do you remember this thing how it really happened?

A COUP. The PM was outside the country and some low officers, following command from above of course, took over the government. Why? They said they were acting for the people but that is of course complete nonsense and a massive evil lie.

The real evil then was that they completly polluted the Supreme Court of Thailand with their own puppet judges to block the will of the people. Another election was held and of course this clown court filled with evil corrupt men, threw out the PM and killed the ruling party with nonsensical charges.

The Court went so far as to outlaw parties.

So they people went onto form a new party. Same group, different name.

They were in RED!

When they asked for real elections, they were ignored. When they protested in the streets, they were shot down like dogs by military men with assualt rivals.

Hey friends from other nations. What would you do to leaders who shot down people in your nations this way?

So here we are.

Another election and another defeat for the Pro Coup groups.

We have another win by the people in Red.

If Thailand again goes to a coup as well it might, the violence could be catostophic and the trade tarrifs from internationls would then follow turning Thailand into a Burma like joke.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the times he's spent in Dubai, he has spent money and time on attacking his opponents and doing all he can to discredit them. What is wrong with that?

Not once (to my knowledge) has he made a concerted effort to prove his innocence ( when you are charged, you do not have to prove you are innocent. The accuser has to prove your guilt. and clear his name. Of all the media outlets that would love to see evidence of his innocence and an unfair trial, we have seen nothing. Surely, proving his innocence would be the most important thing to clear up but he hasn't.

Why do you think that is? You prove your innocense. Do you honestly think there is any way for him to get a fair trial under the Coup court? You know that is a lie.

[michaeljordan]

Have any of you ever looked at the films on youtube of the Thai military shooting at unarmed Thais in Red?

Go ahead and look.

Then make up your mind about where the evil is.

The lust for powe the ruling class is so great as to be completely insane. No elections matter to the one side.

No matter how many times they lose elections to their opponents, they simply refuse to give in to the will of the people.

They control the media and the internet in Thailand. They threaten and distort. They call the newly elected group crimminal even before they take office. Funny thing is they have said this in a never ending stream of government contoled and threatenned media for 7 years now. They shoot down hundreds in the streets. No one goes to jail for a crime. They do coups. no one goes to jail. They kill their own people using military assualt rifels. No one goes to jail.

Do you remember this thing how it really happened?

A COUP. The PM was outside the country and some low officers, following command from above of course, took over the government. Why? They said they were acting for the people but that is of course complete nonsense and a massive evil lie.

The real evil then was that they completly polluted the Supreme Court of Thailand with their own puppet judges to block the will of the people. Another election was held and of course this clown court filled with evil corrupt men, threw out the PM and killed the ruling party with nonsensical charges.

The Court went so far as to outlaw parties.

So they people went onto form a new party. Same group, different name.

They were in RED!

When they asked for real elections, they were ignored. When they protested in the streets, they were shot down like dogs by military men with assualt rivals.

Hey friends from other nations. What would you do to leaders who shot down people in your nations this way?

So here we are.

Another election and another defeat for the Pro Coup groups.

We have another win by the people in Red.

If Thailand again goes to a coup as well it might, the violence could be catostophic and the trade tarrifs from internationls would then follow turning Thailand into a Burma like joke. Likely, many of the internet and media nonsense you read is comiong directly from the Junta. If you are in Thailand, of course you are afraid. it is a sick and sad ruling class that kills its own people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the times he's spent in Dubai, he has spent money and time on attacking his opponents and doing all he can to discredit them. What is wrong with that?

Not once (to my knowledge) has he made a concerted effort to prove his innocence ( when you are charged, you do not have to prove you are innocent. The accuser has to prove your guilt. and clear his name. Of all the media outlets that would love to see evidence of his innocence and an unfair trial, we have seen nothing. Surely, proving his innocence would be the most important thing to clear up but he hasn't.

Why do you think that is? You prove your innocense. Do you honestly think there is any way for him to get a fair trial under the Coup court? You know that is a lie.

[wolf5370]

mr member get a life yr not even Thai, you should agree with the morjority of the Thai people if you agree with a democratic society ! ( for my part i give this party all my best and if it dosen't work out then another vote will follow ). you are a guest ack like one !

OK I'll bite - why should anyone agree with what the majority agree with? They call that sheep mentality - a classic extreamist position, if you do not follow the flock, if you question your master, if you disagree with the popular view - then you are/ are not [fill in the blank] (in this case "not democratic") - just shows what some people's understanding of "democratic" really is. It matters not a whit if we are guests, Thais, or even pundits that have never set foot in Thailand nor ever intend to - we can still (and do, and should) have views and one standard (supposedly) democratic right is the right to express those views. Are you telling me you have/had no views on Apparteid in SUD, Israel/palestine, Iraq/Afghanistan, or a million other issues worldwide? Being a brass monkey is not desireable, certainly isn't a bragging point, and most definiately not a position to which one should aspire!

[whybother]

Have any of you ever looked at the films on youtube of the Thai military shooting at unarmed Thais in Red?

Go ahead and look.

Then make up your mind about where the evil is.

The lust for powe the ruling class is so great as to be completely insane. No elections matter to the one side.

No matter how many times they lose elections to their opponents, they simply refuse to give in to the will of the people.

They control the media and the internet in Thailand. They threaten and distort. They call the newly elected group crimminal even before they take office. Funny thing is they have said this in a never ending stream of government contoled and threatenned media for 7 years now. They shoot down hundreds in the streets. No one goes to jail for a crime. They do coups. no one goes to jail. They kill their own people using military assualt rifels. No one goes to jail.

Do you remember this thing how it really happened?

A COUP. The PM was outside the country and some low officers, following command from above of course, took over the government. Why? They said they were acting for the people but that is of course complete nonsense and a massive evil lie.

The real evil then was that they completly polluted the Supreme Court of Thailand with their own puppet judges to block the will of the people. Another election was held and of course this clown court filled with evil corrupt men, threw out the PM and killed the ruling party with nonsensical charges.

The Court went so far as to outlaw parties.

So they people went onto form a new party. Same group, different name.

They were in RED!

When they asked for real elections, they were ignored. When they protested in the streets, they were shot down like dogs by military men with assualt rivals.

Hey friends from other nations. What would you do to leaders who shot down people in your nations this way?

So here we are.

Another election and another defeat for the Pro Coup groups.

We have another win by the people in Red.

If Thailand again goes to a coup as well it might, the violence could be catostophic and the trade tarrifs from internationls would then follow turning Thailand into a Burma like joke. Likely, many of the internet and media nonsense you read is comiong directly from the Junta. If you are in Thailand, of course you are afraid. it is a sick and sad ruling class that kills its own people.

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All the times he's spent in Dubai, he has spent money and time on attacking his opponents and doing all he can to discredit them. What is wrong with that?

Not once (to my knowledge) has he made a concerted effort to prove his innocence ( when you are charged, you do not have to prove you are innocent. The accuser has to prove your guilt. and clear his name. Of all the media outlets that would love to see evidence of his innocence and an unfair trial, we have seen nothing. Surely, proving his innocence would be the most important thing to clear up but he hasn't.

Why do you think that is? You prove your innocense. Do you honestly think there is any way for him to get a fair trial under the Coup court? You know that is a lie.

I hope you looked at the red (black) shirts shooting back at the army, and the various grenade blasts that killed people, too. Whoever paid people to do that must have had a bit of lust for power.

Do you remember what happened before the coup? Or do you think all the recent problems started there? Why did people start protesting in 2005? Why did Thaksin call an early election only ONE year after a landslide win? Why didn't he organise repeat elections in the proscribed time frame after the failed 2006 election?

When the red shirts asked for real elections, they were offered them. But they refused. Then they proceeded to kill army personnel, innocent bystanders at train stations, and then burn down buildings around the country.

[metisdead]

A post with references to HM the King has been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

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[whybother]

mr member get a life yr not even Thai, you should agree with the morjority of the Thai people if you agree with a democratic society ! ( for my part i give this party all my best and if it dosen't work out then another vote will follow ). you are a guest ack like one !

Yay for Red Democracy.

"We're a large minority. You should agree with us."

[Thai at Heart]

mr member get a life yr not even Thai, you should agree with the morjority of the Thai people if you agree with a democratic society ! ( for my part i give this party all my best and if it dosen't work out then another vote will follow ). you are a guest ack like one !

OK I'll bite - why should anyone agree with what the majority agree with? They call that sheep mentality - a classic extreamist position, if you do not follow the flock, if you question your master, if you disagree with the popular view - then you are/ are not [fill in the blank] (in this case "not democratic") - just shows what some people's understanding of "democratic" really is. It matters not a whit if we are guests, Thais, or even pundits that have never set foot in Thailand nor ever intend to - we can still (and do, and should) have views and one standard (supposedly) democratic right is the right to express those views. Are you telling me you have/had no views on Apparteid in SUD, Israel/palestine, Iraq/Afghanistan, or a million other issues worldwide? Being a brass monkey is not desireable, certainly isn't a bragging point, and most definiately not a position to which one should aspire!

Couldn't agree more. How on earth does anyone get held to account, if no one considers what may, is and has gone wrong? I do however, get extremely tired with people going on about the electorate being ill-informed. I don't agree with the statement at all, and the result is the result. Get on with it, but don't sheepishly agree just for the sake of it.

I would suggest that what the country needs is more and more and more debate and discussion from everyone about what goes on here, not less. It might help to stop the country lurching from crisis to crisis as it has in last 6 years. There are 1000 issues in the system that need to be looked at, discussed and changed if need be. The system in Thailand allowed these crises to happen, and I would suggest that it is only by people being allowed to criticize the system that it will ever get better. Of course, no one has to pay any attention to anything that is written here, but I would rather it is written, than hidden because someone doesn't agree with it.

Hear, hear, Mr. Wolf

Edited July 4, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[themockrat]

mr member get a life yr not even Thai, you should agree with the morjority of the Thai people if you agree with a democratic society ! ( for my part i give this party all my best and if it dosen't work out then another vote will follow ). you are a guest ack like one !

Yay for Red Democracy.

"We're a large minority. You should agree with us."

How is over 50% a minority? Seriously, your comments are past ridiculous now.