The Election Is Over But The Hatred Remains; Thai Opinion

[anterian]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

[letitbe]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

dont worry if our fears are realised in full most of us will be moving on towards another country and so will you when it all ends in tears on reflection it is probably a good thing for thailand to let Taksin do his worst as long as he allows an election in 4 years and has not managed to totally take complete control of everything. HoweverI doubt even he can do that within 4 years. HOw long did it take Mugabwie pol pot Hitler and rest to completely totally control things to extent that if their were elections allowed they were only for 1 party or 1 man. So we probably have a few years to see but writing is already on the wall.

[Jingthing]

Today from the Washington Post ..

Whatever his plans, Thaksin will continue to be at the center of Thai politics for the foreseeable future.

“In all likelihood, the immediate aftermath of the election is going to be more about Thaksin,” said scholar Hewison. “The group who designate themselves ‘the people who hate Thaksin’ are going to be hard at work. The Democrat Party has made it clear that opposing Thaksin is their main task. They will be joined by those who have opposed Thaksin since 2005.

“For Pheu Thai, much now depends on Thaksin being less aggressive and headstrong than he has been in the past. Has he learned to be more patient?”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia-pacific/thailands-election-winner-hammers-together-5-party-coalition-as-military-steps-back/2011/07/04/gHQAa3WdxH_story_1.html

[anterian]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

dont worry if our fears are realised in full most of us will be moving on towards another country and so will you when it all ends in tears on reflection it is probably a good thing for thailand to let Taksin do his worst as long as he allows an election in 4 years and has not managed to totally take complete control of everything. HoweverI doubt even he can do that within 4 years. HOw long did it take Mugabwie pol pot Hitler and rest to completely totally control things to extent that if their were elections allowed they were only for 1 party or 1 man. So we probably have a few years to see but writing is already on the wall.

Pessimism is good in that it makes you prepare for the worse, on the other hand optimism allows us to have several plans, the future is never carved in stone.

Pessimism is another word for defeatism.

[Jingthing]

Or, maybe not --

http://synonyms.woxikon.com/english-synonyms/pessimism.php

[Thaddeus]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

But to ignore the past is cause for repeating the same mistakes.

[anterian]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

But to ignore the past is cause for repeating the same mistakes.

I never used the word ignore, the past exists, just don't dwell in it. As I said, move on.

Bitterness destroys the soul. Forgive the past but don't forget the lessons of the past.

But hey, this is my philosophy, I'm not forcing it on anyone, live with your bitterness if that is your nature.

[JAG]

After the 2006 coup the top judiciary was changed by the military and then the very same military appointed judiciary and the military appointed panels to investigate Thaksin SURPRISE found the man they kicked out guilty, which then justified to themselves their action and justified their AMNESTY they gave themselves.

Yes Yes Yes. An excellent summary.

it has taken 5 years, but the Thai electorate have finally been able to have their say on the coup and the subsequent shenanigans.

[cdnvic]

Please post the links to these articles when you post them - and copy their content. It is only fair to The Nation.

We have long standing agreements with several news agencies to republish their content. The Nation is one of them.

[Nisa]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

The problem is that the past is repeating itself.

[Nisa]

Today from the Washington Post ..

Whatever his plans, Thaksin will continue to be at the center of Thai politics for the foreseeable future.

"In all likelihood, the immediate aftermath of the election is going to be more about Thaksin," said scholar Hewison. "The group who designate themselves 'the people who hate Thaksin' are going to be hard at work. The Democrat Party has made it clear that opposing Thaksin is their main task. They will be joined by those who have opposed Thaksin since 2005.

"For Pheu Thai, much now depends on Thaksin being less aggressive and headstrong than he has been in the past. Has he learned to be more patient?"

http://www.washingto...xH_story_1.html

I kind of liked ...

In Dubai, Thaksin hailed the election result. “The Thai people spoke,” he said. “They told the world, the whole country ... (that) the last five years, the country has gone nowhere.

considering Thaksin did all he could to prevent the country from moving forward during this time.

[anterian]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

The problem is that the past is repeating itself.

Not all past events are bad, some are worth repeating to rectify mistakes since they were made. Specifically a military coup is always a mistake.

However, it is clear that many here will carry their hatred of Thaksin to the grave, so be it, it gets boring hearing the same repetitive comments day after day from the same people. Why not just say that Messrs A, B and C will object to anything that PT or Thaksin does, and Messrs X,Y and Z will support anything they do whilst P, Q and R try to stay impartial? Then all these people need post is "Standard comment"

[LevelHead]

Why not tell us what happened then? If you agree with LevelHead then you must feel as threatened as he is for some reason. Certainly threatened enough to make threats to other posters.

1996 election, NAP led the government after getting more seats, but less votes, than the Democrats.

1997, gross mismanagement by Chavalit and his team, in part contributing to the Asian economic crisis, sees the Democrats take charge under Chuan. The Democrats implement IMF policies, stabilise the economy and repair the damage.

2001, Thaksin's TRT buys out the NAP, forms a coalition government, takes advantage of the policies put in place by the Democrats and a growing global economy. Thaksin is later found by the courts, and the evidence is freely available, to have stolen billions from the Thai people.

And what a weak, pathetic statement the one about Thaksin not inventing Thai corruption is. I suppose it's alright for someone to go around murdering for fun, after all, they didn't invent it, and others have killed far more in the past? Until the rich and powerful, and that includes Thaksin and his family, are held responsible for their actions, any talk of equality and progress for the poor is hollow.

Democrats before 2001.. good guys ??.... LOL

Transparency International is an independent organisation who do a yearly "Corruptions Perception Index" (CPI).

The higher the CPI the LESS corrupt a country is meant to be.

10 is the perfect score and would suggest no corruption whatsoever and the lower the CPI the more corrupt.

So, let us take a look at what Transparency International's actual figures for their yearly surveys of Thailand say.

In 2000, when the Democrats were still in power, Thailand's CPI was 3.2.

By 2003 under TRT, the CPI had gone up to 3.3. (Yes it was rising so less corrupt)

Then, there is another increase in the CPI in 2004 to 3.6. (Rising again, less corrupt again)

Then, on 18 October 2005, Transparency International released its survey for 2005 and yes you guessed it, the CPI had then increased to 3.8.

Getting even less corrupt.

And this is not far away from when the Military held a coup due to "corruption".

Maybe its frankly that certain people were getting starved of their corruption money and drug money and decided it was time to get rid of Thaksin and TRT so high levels of corruption and drugs could return as the normal to Thai life.

Strange that nobody replies to this post, which categorically proves that TRT were less corrupt than the Democrats back in the period where the propaganda has been so rife since that period that some people wrongly think corruption was worse under Thaksin and TRT - WHEN IN FACT IT WAS MUCH LESS !!

The leftovers of that propaganda machine can still be seen on the internet today with people vociferously anti-Thaksin based on the lies spouted by the machinery of the coup.

.

[whybother]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it".

One facet of reconciliation is accepting responsibility. At NO point have I seen the red shirts, PTP (PPP/TRT) or Thaksin take ANY responsibility for any of their actions.

[whybother]

Strange that nobody replies to this post, which categorically proves that TRT were less corrupt than the Democrats back in the period where the propaganda has been so rife since that period that some people wrongly think corruption was worse under Thaksin and TRT - WHEN IN FACT IT WAS MUCH LESS !!

The leftovers of that propaganda machine can still be seen on the internet today with people vociferously anti-Thaksin based on the lies spouted by the machinery of the coup.

So, you didn't read Transparency International's own website where they say the CPI is not something that can be compared from year-to-year for trend analysis.

Given its methodology, the CPI is not a tool that is suitable for trend analysis or for monitoring changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. Year-to-year changes in a country/territory’s score can result from a change in the perceptions of a country’s performance, a change in the ranking provided by original sources or changes in the methodology resulting from TI’s efforts to improve the index

It's a perception index. So, the more corruption is talked about, the more people 'perceive' it. People were talking about corruption a lot after 2005.

[hyperdimension]

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

The UDD, via their regular and frequent rallies over the past two years, as well as via their Satellite television channel and radio stations across the country, did exactly that: "constantly reiterate past grievances", indoctrinating hatred for the Abhisit government. It's the UDD and Thaksin who should have "moved on" instead of creating and funding chaos in the country over the past two years.

Bitterness destroys the soul. Forgive the past but don't forget the lessons of the past.

But hey, this is my philosophy, I'm not forcing it on anyone, live with your bitterness if that is your nature.

If you actually heard much of the propaganda of the UDD you will realize how bitter and hell-bent the UDD cult have been, enough to influence some of their followers to sacrifice themselves, not for the greater good as they had been deceived into thinking but ultimately for Thaksin's lust for power, wealth and prestige.

:

"Starts with a comment that Abhisit and Prem are intimate and ends by saying that Suthep's list of sensitive targets will be wiped off the face of Thailand if Redshirts are injured by government.

And yes, that list includes Siriraj Hospital, among other things."

Edited July 5, 2011 by hyperdimension

[wolfmanjack]

Reconciliation is not an option in this stage.

First the vested powers (business and military elite and the top bureaucracy) must be hold accountable for their attempts (coups and arbitrary use of the judiciary) to break the will (election results) of the majority of the Thai population in the last 10 years.

The only way to break their power once and for all is to imprison them all for life, nationalise their business assets and redistribute their wealth (largely stolen) among the population from whom it was stolen. The crimes they commited call for the strongest measures to be taken.

There can not be any thought of reconciliation knowing the past with coups against the will of the majority expressed in 10 years of electoral votes. If the Peua Thai does not break the vested powers its just a mater of time before the next military junta is installed.

I truly hope the new Thai government, approved of by the majority of Thai voters (this seems so painfull for many TV members) will clean the house called Thailand. And cleaning in this respect also mean expulsion of the many unwanted elements among the foreigners currently residing in Thailand. The elements calling Thai people (mainly Isanese) lazy, drunk, incapable of voting must be trown out, they deserve no place in the country they reside in. And I think they will be trown out in time, stricter visa rules are long overdue.

Let this not be the end (it won't) but the beginning of a long road ahead towards more equality in Thai society.

Egalite

Impressively radical! Are you a communist? It's OK if you are, that's a valid point of view, which brought us some wonderful things in the world, like STALIN murdering more people than Hitler, like MAO, also a mass murderer and don't forget his thrilling "cultural revolution" where experienced doctors were sent to work in the muddy fields, while schoolkids became surgeons, and let us not forger POL POT and his killing fields of "intellectuals" or anyone wearing glasses or who read a book, Thailand's neighbor, bloody bloody bloody. Sir, that's what your path would lead to, a river of blood.

He forgets that Thaksin patially PRIVATISED PTT so his family and friends could purchase part of the most profitable state enterprise.

[wolfmanjack]

Wouldn't "reconciliation" involved we Farangs accepting the election results and hoping Yingluck et al do good things for Thailand?

TV please reconcile yourselves to the democratic process. The Thai people have spoken.

I accept the results of the election and I hope that PT does what is right for thailand but i doubt that they will.

[evanson]

Today from the Washington Post ..

Whatever his plans, Thaksin will continue to be at the center of Thai politics for the foreseeable future.

"In all likelihood, the immediate aftermath of the election is going to be more about Thaksin," said scholar Hewison. "The group who designate themselves 'the people who hate Thaksin' are going to be hard at work. The Democrat Party has made it clear that opposing Thaksin is their main task. They will be joined by those who have opposed Thaksin since 2005.

"For Pheu Thai, much now depends on Thaksin being less aggressive and headstrong than he has been in the past. Has he learned to be more patient?"

http://www.washingto...xH_story_1.html

I kind of liked ...

In Dubai, Thaksin hailed the election result. “The Thai people spoke,” he said. “They told the world, the whole country ... (that) the last five years, the country has gone nowhere.

considering Thaksin did all he could to prevent the country from moving forward during this time.

And the 'Democrats' DID?! More internet sites banned, no changes to archaic rules relating to foreign investment - indeed, a re-hashing of a two year old story on a Mugabe style land grab on the eve of the election, an increase in corruption at every level and an ever widening gap between the rich and the poor that looked as though it wasn't going to close any time soon.

He was a pretty ineffectual puppet. Get over it.

[animatic]

Bitterness destroys the soul. Forgive the past but don't forget the lessons of the past.

But hey, this is my philosophy, I'm not forcing it on anyone, live with your bitterness if that is your nature.

This bitterness you speak of seems to embody the revenge and gloating of the red side. They win and can't give their long stoked bitterness a rest. The instigators of their hate kept it at fever pitch so long they no longer know how to stop it. It may be quite simplistic to say 'you lost stifle your bitterness', when what you 'see as loser bitterness' is actually maintaining a consistent position on the issues, regardless of their jibbing with a bitter majority.

Edited July 5, 2011 by animatic

[ballpoint]

Why not tell us what happened then? If you agree with LevelHead then you must feel as threatened as he is for some reason. Certainly threatened enough to make threats to other posters.

1996 election, NAP led the government after getting more seats, but less votes, than the Democrats.

1997, gross mismanagement by Chavalit and his team, in part contributing to the Asian economic crisis, sees the Democrats take charge under Chuan. The Democrats implement IMF policies, stabilise the economy and repair the damage.

2001, Thaksin's TRT buys out the NAP, forms a coalition government, takes advantage of the policies put in place by the Democrats and a growing global economy. Thaksin is later found by the courts, and the evidence is freely available, to have stolen billions from the Thai people.

And what a weak, pathetic statement the one about Thaksin not inventing Thai corruption is. I suppose it's alright for someone to go around murdering for fun, after all, they didn't invent it, and others have killed far more in the past? Until the rich and powerful, and that includes Thaksin and his family, are held responsible for their actions, any talk of equality and progress for the poor is hollow.

Democrats before 2001.. good guys ??.... LOL

Transparency International is an independent organisation who do a yearly "Corruptions Perception Index" (CPI).

The higher the CPI the LESS corrupt a country is meant to be.

10 is the perfect score and would suggest no corruption whatsoever and the lower the CPI the more corrupt.

So, let us take a look at what Transparency International's actual figures for their yearly surveys of Thailand say.

In 2000, when the Democrats were still in power, Thailand's CPI was 3.2.

By 2003 under TRT, the CPI had gone up to 3.3. (Yes it was rising so less corrupt)

Then, there is another increase in the CPI in 2004 to 3.6. (Rising again, less corrupt again)

Then, on 18 October 2005, Transparency International released its survey for 2005 and yes you guessed it, the CPI had then increased to 3.8.

Getting even less corrupt.

And this is not far away from when the Military held a coup due to "corruption".

Maybe its frankly that certain people were getting starved of their corruption money and drug money and decided it was time to get rid of Thaksin and TRT so high levels of corruption and drugs could return as the normal to Thai life.

Strange that nobody replies to this post, which categorically proves that TRT were less corrupt than the Democrats back in the period where the propaganda has been so rife since that period that some people wrongly think corruption was worse under Thaksin and TRT - WHEN IN FACT IT WAS MUCH LESS !!

The leftovers of that propaganda machine can still be seen on the internet today with people vociferously anti-Thaksin based on the lies spouted by the machinery of the coup.

.

As Whybother has already stated, the only thing your post categorically proves is that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I must also say that it is good to see that you seem to have worked the large font issue out, but you might want to check your caps lock key, it appears to be intermittantly sticking.

[noahvail]

Why not tell us what happened then? If you agree with LevelHead then you must feel as threatened as he is for some reason. Certainly threatened enough to make threats to other posters.

1996 election, NAP led the government after getting more seats, but less votes, than the Democrats.

1997, gross mismanagement by Chavalit and his team, in part contributing to the Asian economic crisis, sees the Democrats take charge under Chuan. The Democrats implement IMF policies, stabilise the economy and repair the damage.

2001, Thaksin's TRT buys out the NAP, forms a coalition government, takes advantage of the policies put in place by the Democrats and a growing global economy. Thaksin is later found by the courts, and the evidence is freely available, to have stolen billions from the Thai people.

And what a weak, pathetic statement the one about Thaksin not inventing Thai corruption is. I suppose it's alright for someone to go around murdering for fun, after all, they didn't invent it, and others have killed far more in the past? Until the rich and powerful, and that includes Thaksin and his family, are held responsible for their actions, any talk of equality and progress for the poor is hollow.

Democrats before 2001.. good guys ??.... LOL

Transparency International is an independent organisation who do a yearly "Corruptions Perception Index" (CPI).

The higher the CPI the LESS corrupt a country is meant to be.

10 is the perfect score and would suggest no corruption whatsoever and the lower the CPI the more corrupt.

So, let us take a look at what Transparency International's actual figures for their yearly surveys of Thailand say.

In 2000, when the Democrats were still in power, Thailand's CPI was 3.2.

By 2003 under TRT, the CPI had gone up to 3.3. (Yes it was rising so less corrupt)

Then, there is another increase in the CPI in 2004 to 3.6. (Rising again, less corrupt again)

Then, on 18 October 2005, Transparency International released its survey for 2005 and yes you guessed it, the CPI had then increased to 3.8.

Getting even less corrupt.

And this is not far away from when the Military held a coup due to "corruption".

Maybe its frankly that certain people were getting starved of their corruption money and drug money and decided it was time to get rid of Thaksin and TRT so high levels of corruption and drugs could return as the normal to Thai life.

Strange that nobody replies to this post, which categorically proves that TRT were less corrupt than the Democrats back in the period where the propaganda has been so rife since that period that some people wrongly think corruption was worse under Thaksin and TRT - WHEN IN FACT IT WAS MUCH LESS !!

The leftovers of that propaganda machine can still be seen on the internet today with people vociferously anti-Thaksin based on the lies spouted by the machinery of the coup.

.

As Whybother has already stated, the only thing your post categorically proves is that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I must also say that it is good to see that you seem to have worked the large font issue out, but you might want to check your caps lock key, it appears to be intermittantly sticking.

Yes, it's already been done to death in a prior thread, suggest you do a search. No point in rehashing why the CPI is worthless - and I'm calling it worthless despite the fact that it shows that corruption decreased during the Abhisit years. (Hint - look at what they say about their time lag.)

[Nisa]

Why not tell us what happened then? If you agree with LevelHead then you must feel as threatened as he is for some reason. Certainly threatened enough to make threats to other posters.

1996 election, NAP led the government after getting more seats, but less votes, than the Democrats.

1997, gross mismanagement by Chavalit and his team, in part contributing to the Asian economic crisis, sees the Democrats take charge under Chuan. The Democrats implement IMF policies, stabilise the economy and repair the damage.

2001, Thaksin's TRT buys out the NAP, forms a coalition government, takes advantage of the policies put in place by the Democrats and a growing global economy. Thaksin is later found by the courts, and the evidence is freely available, to have stolen billions from the Thai people.

And what a weak, pathetic statement the one about Thaksin not inventing Thai corruption is. I suppose it's alright for someone to go around murdering for fun, after all, they didn't invent it, and others have killed far more in the past? Until the rich and powerful, and that includes Thaksin and his family, are held responsible for their actions, any talk of equality and progress for the poor is hollow.

Democrats before 2001.. good guys ??.... LOL

Transparency International is an independent organisation who do a yearly "Corruptions Perception Index" (CPI).

The higher the CPI the LESS corrupt a country is meant to be.

10 is the perfect score and would suggest no corruption whatsoever and the lower the CPI the more corrupt.

So, let us take a look at what Transparency International's actual figures for their yearly surveys of Thailand say.

In 2000, when the Democrats were still in power, Thailand's CPI was 3.2.

By 2003 under TRT, the CPI had gone up to 3.3. (Yes it was rising so less corrupt)

Then, there is another increase in the CPI in 2004 to 3.6. (Rising again, less corrupt again)

Then, on 18 October 2005, Transparency International released its survey for 2005 and yes you guessed it, the CPI had then increased to 3.8.

Getting even less corrupt.

And this is not far away from when the Military held a coup due to "corruption".

Maybe its frankly that certain people were getting starved of their corruption money and drug money and decided it was time to get rid of Thaksin and TRT so high levels of corruption and drugs could return as the normal to Thai life.

Strange that nobody replies to this post, which categorically proves that TRT were less corrupt than the Democrats back in the period where the propaganda has been so rife since that period that some people wrongly think corruption was worse under Thaksin and TRT - WHEN IN FACT IT WAS MUCH LESS !!

The leftovers of that propaganda machine can still be seen on the internet today with people vociferously anti-Thaksin based on the lies spouted by the machinery of the coup.

.

The "perception" index is just that. Even the author of these figures tells us that you cannot rely on comparing year to year stats...

CPI authors themselves admit are not justified by their methodology.

The authors state in 2008: "Year-to-year changes in a country's score can either result from a changed perception of a country's performance or from a change in the CPI's sample and methodology. The only reliable way to compare a country's score over time is to go back to individual survey sources, each of which can reflect a change in assessment."

http://www.transpare...q#interpreting4 or http://en.wikipedia....Index#Criticism

While the numbers are helpful to a certain extent, they cannot be relied upon as an indication of true government corruption which is generally hidden from the public. Not to mention the changes are 6/10th of 1 point at their most extreme which is not at all uncommon for many countries with similar rankings.

Not to mention it was 3.0 in 1998 which shows it was rising prior to Thaksin and then again rose under Abhisit.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Nisa

[animatic]

Lets not let misinterpretation of data SPOIL A GOOD RANT.

[Lancelot]

I wouldn't post Wikipedia links as proof to anything because anyone can edit the Wiki page to say whatever they want. Look at the bottom of the article for citations from real news sources and post them instead.

I disagree.

Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica

http://news.cnet.com/Study-Wikipedia-as-accurate-as-Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

Experts rate Wikipedia's accuracy higher than non-experts

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/11/8296.ars

Wikipedia And The Death Of The Expert

http://www.theawl.com/2011/05/wikipedia-and-the-death-of-the-expert

While Wiki certainly isn't 100% accurate neither are other sources given here on TV.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Lancelot

[anterian]

I guess we will have to get used to the taste of the sour grapes that so many members are offering us. Even in defeat they persist in their myopic view of events, perhaps the Thai people can move on but it seems some farangs never will.

Why should our views change just because the PTP got a majority? That doesn't change the facts of what happened in the past.

One facet of reconciliation is moving on from the past. To constantly reiterate past grievances is counterproductive.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it".

One facet of reconciliation is accepting responsibility. At NO point have I seen the red shirts, PTP (PPP/TRT) or Thaksin take ANY responsibility for any of their actions.

This might be so to you, others can be more generous in their attitude, and realise that both sides have sinned. Will the army accept responsibility for the coup, the election result makes it clear that the only people who approved of that were those in Bangkok. So a few redshirt supporters are jumping with joy, so are you man or child. You are persisting in an attitude which the Thais have rejected, You are hurt, you are indignant, but until you accept this fact you will just be a sour loser. Abhisit in his resignation speech has shown more dignity than you and many others here. This country has to move forward, and the first step is to reunite, put the past behind it. As tho OP heading says, and as you clearly show, the hatred remains, hatred on both sides, and while this persists any progress towards reconciliation is doomed.

[JemJem]

When PTP goes for an amnesty-for-all, the Yellow Shirts and the Democrats (and the Army) will once again combine forces and oppose this.

The thing is not if but WHEN PTP does this. I am sure they will be clever and not do this before next year but even if amnesty is sought next year, those anti-Thaksin forces might still unleash their struggle against the amnesty.

My opinion is Thaksin shouldn't benefit from any amnesty.

Jem

[whybother]

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it".

One facet of reconciliation is accepting responsibility. At NO point have I seen the red shirts, PTP (PPP/TRT) or Thaksin take ANY responsibility for any of their actions.

This might be so to you, others can be more generous in their attitude, and realise that both sides have sinned. Will the army accept responsibility for the coup, the election result makes it clear that the only people who approved of that were those in Bangkok. So a few redshirt supporters are jumping with joy, so are you man or child. You are persisting in an attitude which the Thais have rejected, You are hurt, you are indignant, but until you accept this fact you will just be a sour loser. Abhisit in his resignation speech has shown more dignity than you and many others here. This country has to move forward, and the first step is to reunite, put the past behind it. As tho OP heading says, and as you clearly show, the hatred remains, hatred on both sides, and while this persists any progress towards reconciliation is doomed.

I didn't realise the army was denying that the coup took place. They've accepted responsibility ... and resolved themselves of it.

But, just because both sides have sinned doesn't mean that they should deny they did wrong or not accept responsibility for what they did.

You seem to be ignoring nearly the whole south of Thailand, amongst other areas. "The Thais" haven't rejected anything. The PTP got a small majority of seats, and less than a majority of votes.

Have I changed my stance since the election? It is irrelevant to me that the Democrats lost (although I would have preferred that they got back into government).

My stance since April last year has been that the red shirts accept that they were a cause of some of the deaths from the protests. Many of the deaths were caused directly by the red shirts, and many of them were caused by red shirt actions (attacking the army with guns and various other weapons from well outside their fuel soaked barricades).

But the red shirts, and most of the red shirt supporters on TV, want to put the blame solely on the army and Abhisit.

To move forward, people have to take responsibility. It can't just be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

[GentlemanJim]

Well, the folks down here in the South cannot abide the man or his clone Sister, but to be honest, surely I am the same as almost every expat here, it does not affect me or you one iota. I really dislike him, but it has no affect on my daily life. The truth is the Sister has won but now the party is back in power, he will be calling all the shots. However, if he really is going to get the dollar back at 40 baht then bring it on, I am sure the expats could do with a few years break and an increase in effective spending power. I am also sure most of us will not turn our nose up at a 30% hike in exchange rate.

So Taksin promises to corrode the value of the baht faster than the U.S. is destroying the dollar and you think that's a good thing.

It is simple economics. It is going to happen anyway. The massive increase in public spending that has been promised (all those tablets promised for school kids, the minimum wage hike for graduates, minimum wage for workers), what on earth do you think is going to happen to inflation in this country in the next 12 months? Should the Thai Baht reposition itself to its normal place in the market, then exports from Thailand will boom. Back up goes the shrimp industry to the US and the tourists flock back. So yes, all in all as inflation will rise anyway, yes it will be a marvelous thing for Thailand.

[themockrat]

Just think about it "Thaksin and PT say they want reconcillation" If Tak stayed away from the country and" let it be" maybe there is a slim chance ,but now he will think he's had such an influence on a victory that will give greater incentive to do more. The poison will continue have no doubt.

Please remember that the Thai people have chosen Thaksin. The Thai people WANT Thaksin more than Abhisit, as we've clearly seen in the election. If Thaksin stayed away, what choice would they have? Abhisit. Nobody else. Why should the Democrats have a monopoly on power, if the Thai people really want someone else?

If the Thai people didn't want Thaksin, believe me, they would have not voted for him.