Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[Jingthing]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

You think Thaksin is all about poor people having their say? That's amusing.

[DumFarang]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

You think Thaksin is all about poor people having their say? That's amusing.

He is all about the poor having their say. Just as long as they say what he wants to hear, and he thinks it all sounds pretty good about now.

[473geo]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

You think Thaksin is all about poor people having their say? That's amusing.

He is all about the poor having their say. Just as long as they say what he wants to hear, and he thinks it all sounds pretty good about now.

Not about Thaksin, the people have voted and had their say, they voted knowing thaksin was involved......they had their say...........

Are they now to be denied by the political manouvres of people they chose NOT to run their country?

[hammered]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

You think Thaksin is all about poor people having their say? That's amusing.

He is all about the poor having their say. Just as long as they say what he wants to hear, and he thinks it all sounds pretty good about now.

Not about Thaksin, the people have voted and had their say, they voted knowing thaksin was involved......they had their say...........

Are they now to be denied by the political manouvres of people they chose NOT to run their country?

This time that would result in utter disaster. You wont find any sane person who thinks the election outcome doesnt reflect the state of play exactly. Those who lost really need to sit back and look at why they are repeatedly beaten and make changes. To try a manouver or two to undo what is clearly a reflection of the will of the people is only going to make things a lot worse for the defeated and for the country.

[tony1966]

A predictable and legitimate complaint.

The majority of PTP MPs will not be lost of course.

Just parts of the umbrella supporting them.

But the leadership that hadn't pre-resigned, prior to the election to avoid being ousted in the event of this logical filing, will all go bye bye.ANd the control mechanism will be weakened, and that is the likely aim.

I have little doubt that PTP would do EXACTLY the same to them if they thought it would bring advantage.

predictable and legitimate?????????????

In effects is correct, if you live in a Dictatorship, where the people's vote does not count anything.

But here in Thailand we are in Democracy (right?) and they call themselves Democrats (right?)

So if they are democrats and democratics, they just should SHUT UP and prepare themselves for a constructive opposition in Parliament, not on the roads of Bangkok blocking people that want to work, or killing Thai economy blocking the airports...

Otherwise they demonstrate that the only thing they are looking for is a DICTATORSHIP

[Oberkommando]

Not read through the thread but I think we all know the dangers of removing this government by a coup or through the courts.

But it proves one thing: reconciliation was never on the agenda for the Dems. Ultimately they are revealing their true agenda and that of their influential backers, much as Thaksin has done.

[Nacho]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

Don't forget that only 48% of the voters voted for PTP, So the other 52% of the voters that did not vote for the PTP should not have justice if the PTP broke the law? Everyone must abide by the rule of law in a democracy even if they won 95% of the popular vote. Otherwise what is the point in having a democracy. This is something all parties need to understand, and they need to lead the country by example.

[Jingthing]

The PTP picked the perfect candidate to win big and they picked the perfect slogan ... Thaksin Thinks, PTP Acts. So yes they were blatant about breaking the rules. What I think what they have now is the assurance of violence if they are seriously hurt by being challenged in the courts. Violence is an implied threat and nobody wants it to turn out that way. It is known based on track record the reds won't have hesitation to go that way again, and much more. Well actually Thaksin might be OK with that option if he has a plan on how that could be used to gain even further advantages, but that's just speculation. The judges are human beings and may be feeling the pressure over that, fear of revenge if they rule the "wrong" way, not to mention many hidden ways we don't know about. Yes, a risk, but with more power as they are getting now, they simply have more power to effect outcomes.

There is little to commend the PTP with their obvious and overt links to the UDD, who are their military wing for purposes of intimidation. Now we have the unhappy prospect of these red shirted thugs assuming ill fitting suits and ties and pretending to be politicians, coming to think of it, they are perfect mini Me's to their lord and master. I'm dam_n sure they broke sundry electoral rules out of force of habit and simply not being capable of acting otherwise, but still in the final analysis PTP being disbanded would bring chaos, possibly another coop and maybe even civil war. The best strategy may be to let PTP self-destruct as they surely will given time.

Here's where you may be wrong. Sure PTP will fail to some degree, either moderately or massively. That's a given as the promises they have made are basically both contradictory and impossible. Cut corporate taxes/a house for every Thai family, what are they smoking? But what happens AFTER that happens? Another relative fair election, or, as many fear/expect a situation where the Thaksin dynasty after being scorned so rudely, will now have "learned their lesson" and won't let go of power for perhaps many decades? In other words, how many people seriously believe Thaksin is about reconciliation, democracy, and no revenge?

[rixalex]

Not about Thaksin, the people have voted and had their say, they voted knowing thaksin was involved......they had their say...........

Are they now to be denied by the political manouvres of people they chose NOT to run their country?

If they are denied it won't be because of "the people they chose NOT to run their country", it will be because PTP broke electoral law.

If you commit a crime do you turn around and point the finger of blame at the person who spotted you commit it? This is the idea you are promoting.

[hammered]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

Don't forget that only 48% of the voters voted for PTP, So the other 52% of the voters that did not vote for the PTP should not have justice if the PTP broke the law? Everyone must abide by the rule of law in a democracy even if they won 95% of the popular vote. Otherwise what is the point in having a democracy. This is something all parties need to understand, and they need to lead the country by example.

Every party without exception cheated in this and every other Thai election. Maybe they should all be disolved leaving nobody to run the country. Or maybe we could accept that being pragmatic and accepting that as flawed as the system is, it still gives a pretty good reflection of the will of the people in forming a government and how hopefully as thailand develops and people get better education things will improve

[473geo]

The PTP picked the perfect candidate to win big and they picked the perfect slogan ... Thaksin Thinks, PTP Acts. So yes they were blatant about breaking the rules. What I think what they have now is the assurance of violence if they are seriously hurt by being challenged in the courts. Violence is an implied threat and nobody wants it to turn out that way. It is known based on track record the reds won't have hesitation to go that way again, and much more. Well actually Thaksin might be OK with that option if he has a plan on how that could be used to gain even further advantages, but that's just speculation. The judges are human beings and may be feeling the pressure over that, fear of revenge if they rule the "wrong" way, not to mention many hidden ways we don't know about. Yes, a risk, but with more power as they are getting now, they simply have more power to effect outcomes.

There is little to commend the PTP with their obvious and overt links to the UDD, who are their military wing for purposes of intimidation. Now we have the unhappy prospect of these red shirted thugs assuming ill fitting suits and ties and pretending to be politicians, coming to think of it, they are perfect mini Me's to their lord and master. I'm dam_n sure they broke sundry electoral rules out of force of habit and simply not being capable of acting otherwise, but still in the final analysis PTP being disbanded would bring chaos, possibly another coop and maybe even civil war. The best strategy may be to let PTP self-destruct as they surely will given time.

Here's where you may be wrong. Sure PTP will fail to some degree, either moderately or massively. That's a given as the promises they have made are basically both contradictory and impossible. Cut corporate taxes/a house for every Thai family, what are they smoking? But what happens AFTER that happens? Another relative fair election, or, as many fear/expect a situation where the Thaksin dynasty after being scorned so rudely, will now have "learned their lesson" and won't let go of power for perhaps many decades? In other words, how many people seriously believe Thaksin is about reconciliation, democracy, and no revenge?

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims and (unlike the Abhisit government) are voted in again at the next election, because of their delivery and performance.............they have been underestimated so many times I'm surprised that the usual critics are falling into the same old trap again.....

[Jingthing]

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims ...

I really can't imagine being that naive.

[473geo]

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims ...

I really can't imagine being that naive.

First you have to have an imagination....... ......keep trying.......

[Jingthing]

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims ...

I really can't imagine being that naive.

First you have to have an imagination....... ......keep trying.......

Thanks but no thanks. I don't believe in magic or smiley face icons for that matter.

[Crushdepth]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

Don't forget that only 48% of the voters voted for PTP, So the other 52% of the voters that did not vote for the PTP should not have justice if the PTP broke the law? Everyone must abide by the rule of law in a democracy even if they won 95% of the popular vote. Otherwise what is the point in having a democracy. This is something all parties need to understand, and they need to lead the country by example.

Every party without exception cheated in this and every other Thai election. Maybe they should all be disolved leaving nobody to run the country. Or maybe we could accept that being pragmatic and accepting that as flawed as the system is, it still gives a pretty good reflection of the will of the people in forming a government and how hopefully as thailand develops and people get better education things will improve

No. The reason they still cheat in elections is because the punishment is trivial. The only way to clean the system up is the apply the hammer on cheats until they realise that it's in their own interests to obey the law. If you ignore 'minor' corruption it just grows and gets worse.

Why accept a 'flawed' system when you can clean it up?

Edited July 9, 2011 by Crushdepth

[hammered]

The PTP picked the perfect candidate to win big and they picked the perfect slogan ... Thaksin Thinks, PTP Acts. So yes they were blatant about breaking the rules. What I think what they have now is the assurance of violence if they are seriously hurt by being challenged in the courts. Violence is an implied threat and nobody wants it to turn out that way. It is known based on track record the reds won't have hesitation to go that way again, and much more. Well actually Thaksin might be OK with that option if he has a plan on how that could be used to gain even further advantages, but that's just speculation. The judges are human beings and may be feeling the pressure over that, fear of revenge if they rule the "wrong" way, not to mention many hidden ways we don't know about. Yes, a risk, but with more power as they are getting now, they simply have more power to effect outcomes.

There is little to commend the PTP with their obvious and overt links to the UDD, who are their military wing for purposes of intimidation. Now we have the unhappy prospect of these red shirted thugs assuming ill fitting suits and ties and pretending to be politicians, coming to think of it, they are perfect mini Me's to their lord and master. I'm dam_n sure they broke sundry electoral rules out of force of habit and simply not being capable of acting otherwise, but still in the final analysis PTP being disbanded would bring chaos, possibly another coop and maybe even civil war. The best strategy may be to let PTP self-destruct as they surely will given time.

Here's where you may be wrong. Sure PTP will fail to some degree, either moderately or massively. That's a given as the promises they have made are basically both contradictory and impossible. Cut corporate taxes/a house for every Thai family, what are they smoking? But what happens AFTER that happens? Another relative fair election, or, as many fear/expect a situation where the Thaksin dynasty after being scorned so rudely, will now have "learned their lesson" and won't let go of power for perhaps many decades? In other words, how many people seriously believe Thaksin is about reconciliation, democracy, and no revenge?

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims and (unlike the Abhisit government) are voted in again at the next election, because of their delivery and performance.............they have been underestimated so many times I'm surprised that the usual critics are falling into the same old trap again.....

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

[rixalex]

Not read through the thread but I think we all know the dangers of removing this government by a coup or through the courts.

Perhaps if the politicians and governments would stop breaking the frigging laws, we might not suffer from those dangers you speak of. Does it not occur to you that that is where the problem lies?

But it proves one thing: reconciliation was never on the agenda for the Dems.

Reconciliation?

PTP should have run without Thaksin calling all the shots. They might have lost some votes, but they probably still would have won most seats. Temptation was too great for them though, to throw him into the package. They knew he was banned. But what the hey they thought. Let's win this darn thing and then use the electoral mandate to blast through these pesky laws. Nobody will dare challenge us then. But they have. How rude of the Dems.

[hammered]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

Don't forget that only 48% of the voters voted for PTP, So the other 52% of the voters that did not vote for the PTP should not have justice if the PTP broke the law? Everyone must abide by the rule of law in a democracy even if they won 95% of the popular vote. Otherwise what is the point in having a democracy. This is something all parties need to understand, and they need to lead the country by example.

Every party without exception cheated in this and every other Thai election. Maybe they should all be disolved leaving nobody to run the country. Or maybe we could accept that being pragmatic and accepting that as flawed as the system is, it still gives a pretty good reflection of the will of the people in forming a government and how hopefully as thailand develops and people get better education things will improve

No. The reason they still cheat in elections is because the punishment is trivial. The only way to clean the system up is the apply the hammer on cheats until they realise that it's in their own interests to obey the law.

If you ignore 'minor' corruption it just grows and gets worse.

So be even handed about it. Disolve all of the parties withotu exception and ban everybody. But who runs the country and how are the people placated?

[Mystory]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet),

What's your proof for that? They found Thaksin guilty so they can't possibly be neutral? They refused the 2 million baht bribe his lawyers offered on his behalf, so they must be biased?

You telling me someone refused a bribe in Thailand, I think this should be a cover story in itself, did he say "No" or "I cant because to many people are watching." This makes better news.

[Steely Dan]

Here's where you may be wrong. Sure PTP will fail to some degree, either moderately or massively. That's a given as the promises they have made are basically both contradictory and impossible. Cut corporate taxes/a house for every Thai family, what are they smoking? But what happens AFTER that happens? Another relative fair election, or, as many fear/expect a situation where the Thaksin dynasty after being scorned so rudely, will now have "learned their lesson" and won't let go of power for perhaps many decades? In other words, how many people seriously believe Thaksin is about reconciliation, democracy, and no revenge?

Jing,

Of course he's out for revenge and will indeed try to engineer a situation where he is Emperor for life. I suspect that however seriously PTP broke the rules the majority of the Thai people don't really care as there is a perception that PTP (Then TRT) were cheated in the first place so two wrongs make a right. Disbanding them now would be the death knell for Thai democracy due to the red thugs violent threat, and granted with a megalomaniac pulling the puppet strings it is in great danger, however I think a better opportunity will present itself to bring down Thaksin after their populist economic measures crash and burn and the Thai population start to realise they have been had. It is to be hoped disillusionment sets in before Thaksin is able to make his position unassailable.

[Jingthing]

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

Again, totally naive. Raise the minimum wage too quickly, too much (which is their promise) then pretty much guaranteed you get higher unemployment (which some feel) and higher inflation (which the poor feel more severely than any other group). You see the labor force in Thailand is a very low productivity workforce so the economic fundamentals to justify much of a wage hike for the unskilled simply doesn't exist. So if the poor feel just as poor or even worse, do you think they are so stupid not to realize they weren't helped? Maybe so. But that is only one of many promises.

Another thing to keep in mind, a massive portion of the poor Thai workforce is off the grid of ANY wages. You know, like the guys who sell meat sticks of a cart. No wage increase for them, just higher inflation. Happy times.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[473geo]

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims ...

I really can't imagine being that naive.

First you have to have an imagination....... ......keep trying.......

Thanks but no thanks. I don't believe in magic or smiley face icons for that matter.

[473geo]

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

Again, totally naive. Raise the minimum wage too quickly, too much (which is their promise) then pretty much guaranteed you get higher unemployment (which some feel) and higher inflation (which the poor feel more severely than any other group). You see the labor force in Thailand is a very low productivity workforce so the economic fundamentals to justify much of a wage hike for the unskilled simply doesn't exist. So if the poor feel just as poor or even worse, do you think they are so stupid not to realize they weren't helped? Maybe so. But that is only one of many promises.

Doesn't appear to affect unions in other parts of the world being naive enough to negotiate wage rises........perhaps somebody should explain the needless effort they are making and alleviate the disruption they cause.....

[hammered]

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

Again, totally naive. Raise the minimum wage too quickly, too much (which is their promise) then pretty much guaranteed you get higher unemployment (which some feel) and higher inflation (which the poor feel more severely than any other group). You see the labor force in Thailand is a very low productivity workforce so the economic fundamentals to justify much of a wage hike for the unskilled simply doesn't exist. So if the poor feel just as poor or even worse, do you think they are so stupid not to realize they weren't helped? Maybe so. But that is only one of many promises.

No. They will feel indebted to the party and blame the evil company owners, shophouse owners, middlemen whatever for putting up prices. Every other government only ever gave them a pittance of 1-2 baht. Of course it will be remembered. Even Thaksins opponents know the policies are going to cement the poor, and if he gets into the graduate starting salary, middle classes to him and his party.

[noahvail]

I'm surprised that this article hasn't garnered more attention here. If the Constitutional Court agrees with the complaint, new elections will be held. Won't that be fun?

Chamlong seeks to nullify Sunday's vote

People's Alliance for Democracy leader Chamlong Srimuang on Friday petitioned for the Constitution Court to intervene and nullify the Sunday's vote.

Chamlong lodged his petition via the Office of Ombudsman, citing the Election Commission's confusing rules as ground to cancel the balloting outcome.

Along with some two million voters, he and his wife showed up at their designated polling station in Bangkok but were denied a chance to cast vote.

-- The Nation 2011-07-08

Edited July 9, 2011 by noahvail

[rixalex]

So be even handed about it. Disolve all of the parties withotu exception and ban everybody. But who runs the country and how are the people placated?

Who is advocating not being even handed? If the PTP have a case against the Dems, i would be equally against them brushing it in under the carpet for fear of who they might upset.

[Nacho]

I am no fan of this new government too - and we all know what their real motives are...

But they won - and they really should be given a chance without being cock blocked by the dems...

Whats best for Thailand now?

Maybe the current gov is really bad - But a military coup or a repeat of last years 'bangkok burning' is far worse...

Let them have their power.... let the poor people have their say...

Afterall the dems never won in the last 20 years - and for whatever reasons that is, its still a fact that they just dont know how to please ALL the people, only the educated ones...

Don't forget that only 48% of the voters voted for PTP, So the other 52% of the voters that did not vote for the PTP should not have justice if the PTP broke the law? Everyone must abide by the rule of law in a democracy even if they won 95% of the popular vote. Otherwise what is the point in having a democracy. This is something all parties need to understand, and they need to lead the country by example.

Every party without exception cheated in this and every other Thai election. Maybe they should all be disolved leaving nobody to run the country. Or maybe we could accept that being pragmatic and accepting that as flawed as the system is, it still gives a pretty good reflection of the will of the people in forming a government and how hopefully as thailand develops and people get better education things will improve

And that is the problem with Thailand. Look at the corruption in the police force. The only way for the country to develop is through as you say education and people being accountable for their actions, and this needs to start at the top. They need to be acountable for thier campaigning actions, as well as governence. That is why Taksin needs to be out of the picture. I am sure there are alot of people who voted for the PTP only because they thought they were a better option than the dems, not because of Taksin. Bottom line Taksin needs to go and let the PTP run this country without any influence from him for Thailand to move forward.

[hammered]

I'm surprised that this article hasn't garnered more attention here. If the EC agrees with the complaint, new elections will be held. Won't that be fun?

Chamlong seeks to nullify Sunday's vote

People's Alliance for Democracy leader Chamlong Srimuang on Friday petitioned for the Constitution Court to intervene and nullify the Sunday's vote.

Chamlong lodged his petition via the Office of Ombudsman, citing the Election Commission's confusing rules as ground to cancel the balloting outcome.

Along with some two million voters, he and his wife showed up at their designated polling station in Bangkok but were denied a chance to cast vote.

-- The Nation 2011-07-08

I dont think the establishment will want to see an even bigger PTP majority so lets forget new elections

[Jingthing]

No. They will feel indebted to the party and blame the evil company owners, shophouse owners, middlemen whatever for putting up prices. Every other government only ever gave them a pittance of 1-2 baht. Of course it will be remembered. Even Thaksins opponents know the policies are going to cement the poor, and if he gets into the graduate starting salary, middle classes to him and his party.

So what are you saying? The people are too stupid to understand what's happening? That's success of a sort, propaganda success.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[Wallaby]

In my view, since Thaksins actions were well known and the people still voted for it then it is not in the public interest to prosecute.

So in the future, any politician who gets banned, knows that providing they can win the vote, they are free to ignore the ban?

He didn't win the vote, the party did.I would even go so far as to say yes, if the people want him in then in the public interest he should not be prosecuted.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Wallaby