The Time Has Come To Rediscover Our Moral Compass; Thai Opinion

[cup-O-coffee]

No worries, SteeleJoe! I must say; for a tired person you are holding your own quite well. all the best. Get some rest. Good night!

[SteeleJoe]

No worries, SteeleJoe! I must say; for a tired person you are holding your own quite well. all the best. Get some rest. Good night!

Well, you're clearly a nice guy -- I'll say that for you!

Now that I've finished my Skype conversations I will go to bed, but I wanted to add one more thing:

How do you think your Thai friends or partner (assuming you have such) would feel if you said to them, "Westerners don't like scams, rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), bribery as an accepted way of life, a general concept of taking advantage , copyright rip-offs, and the sate of modern Thai politics but I know that that all that stuff is OK with Thais -- because you guys aren't right or wrong but just different".

And also be sure to tell them that you wish they didn't know about air-conditioning, computers, HDTV, nice cars etc (some or all of which you yourself may enjoy)...

All the best to you, as well.Good night

[Britannia]

I think this is one of the better editorials I have read.

The term "moral compass" is an interesting one. I'm trying to figure out if the Thais, as a society, have a moral compass. I believe that moral compasses are often hazy everywhere in the world. But I think that most nations can define what their country's moral compass is. Just for clarity's sake, there was a time when America's moral compass was manifest destiny. All things considered, it built a nation, but trampled on large groups of people while doing so. But it was fairly definable. "The sun never sets on the British empire." The concept had its faults, but it was a definable national moral compass. But, post-King Chulalongkorn, I find it impossible to determine any national moral compass in Thailand.

Then it comes to defining personal moral compasses. Buddhism? I'd have to say no. As beautiful as many aspects of Buddhism are in Thailand (and I consider myself to some extent a converted Buddhist), Buddhism in Thailand is horribly mixed in with animism, as well as we commonly seeing Thais worshiping Hindu dieties. And the principles of Buddhism are very different than the principles of Hinduism.

Who among us can't run down a list of things so common in Thailand that we would have to question the existence of a moral compass: Little things like the undefinable Thai smile that is often a means of taking advantage of a situation, to scams, to rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), to bribery as an accepted way of life, to a general concept of taking advantage, to copyright rip-offs, and, yes, to modern Thai politics.

And yet, as most of us would agree, Thais seem to be "nice", "friendly", "helpful", "kind", etc.

So my question is, what is the Thai moral compass? Can it be defined?

Quote: Then it comes to defining personal moral compasses. Buddhism? I'd have to say no. As beautiful as many aspects of Buddhism are in Thailand (and I consider myself to some extent a converted Buddhist), Buddhism in Thailand is horribly mixed in with animism, as well as we commonly seeing Thais worshiping Hindu dieties. And the principles of Buddhism are very different than the principles of Hinduism

Indeed they are not that much different if you give study, many get lost with the principles of dieties in Hinduism, Not forgetting that Buddha a great teacher was an Hindu.

One problem with Moral standards can be put down to a cast system and how it is applied

Thailand traditionaly always was, this person is higher than you, this person is lower than you. They still treat each other according to that cast system, respect is false if it is commanded rather than earned.

I agree about your comment Buddhism is mixed with animism, this is like a lot of the Christian traditions in England reflect some of the old Pagan religion, It is easier to convert people if you merge past beliefs in to the new

[SteeleJoe]

No worries, SteeleJoe! I must say; for a tired person you are holding your own quite well. all the best. Get some rest. Good night!

Well, you're clearly a nice guy -- I'll say that for you!

Now that I've finished my Skype conversations I will go to bed, but I wanted to add one more thing:

How do you think your Thai friends or partner (assuming you have such) would feel if you said to them, "Westerners don't like scams, rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), bribery as an accepted way of life, a general concept of taking advantage , copyright rip-offs, and the sate of modern Thai politics but I know that that all that stuff is OK with Thais -- because you guys aren't right or wrong but just different".

And also be sure to tell them that you wish they didn't know about air-conditioning, computers, HDTV, nice cars etc (some or all of which you yourself may enjoy)...

All the best to you, as well.Good night

Qouting myself because I completely mucked that up and confused cup O coffee with Hellodolly and thus this bit should have been for the latter of the two:

How do you think your Thai friends or partner (assuming you have such) would feel if you said to them, "Westerners don't like scams, rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), bribery as an accepted way of life, a general concept of taking advantage , copyright rip-offs, and the sate of modern Thai politics but I know that that all that stuff is OK with Thais -- because you guys aren't right or wrong but just different".

And also be sure to tell them that you wish they didn't know about air-conditioning, computers, HDTV, nice cars etc (some or all of which you yourself may enjoy)...

[evanson]

I think this is one of the better editorials I have read.

The term "moral compass" is an interesting one. I'm trying to figure out if the Thais, as a society, have a moral compass. I believe that moral compasses are often hazy everywhere in the world. But I think that most nations can define what their country's moral compass is. Just for clarity's sake, there was a time when America's moral compass was manifest destiny. All things considered, it built a nation, but trampled on large groups of people while doing so. But it was fairly definable. "The sun never sets on the British empire." The concept had its faults, but it was a definable national moral compass. But, post-King Chulalongkorn, I find it impossible to determine any national moral compass in Thailand.

Then it comes to defining personal moral compasses. Buddhism? I'd have to say no. As beautiful as many aspects of Buddhism are in Thailand (and I consider myself to some extent a converted Buddhist), Buddhism in Thailand is horribly mixed in with animism, as well as we commonly seeing Thais worshiping Hindu dieties. And the principles of Buddhism are very different than the principles of Hinduism.

Who among us can't run down a list of things so common in Thailand that we would have to question the existence of a moral compass: Little things like the undefinable Thai smile that is often a means of taking advantage of a situation, to scams, to rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), to bribery as an accepted way of life, to a general concept of taking advantage, to copyright rip-offs, and, yes, to modern Thai politics.

And yet, as most of us would agree, Thais seem to be "nice", "friendly", "helpful", "kind", etc.

So my question is, what is the Thai moral compass? Can it be defined?

What I find more interesting is how many 'farang' come here and throw whatever 'moral compass' they had out the window. As any 'farang', of whatever nationality will tell you, the expat contingent are by far and away worse than their Thai counterparts when it comes to lying/thieving/scamming their fellow 'farang', in predominantly expat areas/communities. Phuket being the worst closely followed by Pattaya and Hua Hin. I will never deal with a 'farang' run business here on Phuket, from carpentry to 'lawyers'. Rip off bstrds the lot of them. And their driving sucks too.

And so, from a psychological point of view, is it that lawlessness (whatever anybody says) that attracts these types? Do these people suddenly lose their conscience (knowing they stand a good chance of getting away with it), or a combination of the two?

[cup-O-coffee]

I think this is one of the better editorials I have read.

The term "moral compass" is an interesting one. I'm trying to figure out if the Thais, as a society, have a moral compass. I believe that moral compasses are often hazy everywhere in the world. But I think that most nations can define what their country's moral compass is. Just for clarity's sake, there was a time when America's moral compass was manifest destiny. All things considered, it built a nation, but trampled on large groups of people while doing so. But it was fairly definable. "The sun never sets on the British empire." The concept had its faults, but it was a definable national moral compass. But, post-King Chulalongkorn, I find it impossible to determine any national moral compass in Thailand.

Then it comes to defining personal moral compasses. Buddhism? I'd have to say no. As beautiful as many aspects of Buddhism are in Thailand (and I consider myself to some extent a converted Buddhist), Buddhism in Thailand is horribly mixed in with animism, as well as we commonly seeing Thais worshiping Hindu dieties. And the principles of Buddhism are very different than the principles of Hinduism.

Who among us can't run down a list of things so common in Thailand that we would have to question the existence of a moral compass: Little things like the undefinable Thai smile that is often a means of taking advantage of a situation, to scams, to rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), to bribery as an accepted way of life, to a general concept of taking advantage, to copyright rip-offs, and, yes, to modern Thai politics.

And yet, as most of us would agree, Thais seem to be "nice", "friendly", "helpful", "kind", etc.

So my question is, what is the Thai moral compass? Can it be defined?

What I find more interesting is how many 'farang' come here and throw whatever 'moral compass' they had out the window. As any 'farang', of whatever nationality will tell you, the expat contingent are by far and away worse than their Thai counterparts when it comes to lying/thieving/scamming their fellow 'farang', in predominantly expat areas/communities. Phuket being the worst closely followed by Pattaya and Hua Hin. I will never deal with a 'farang' run business here on Phuket, from carpentry to 'lawyers'. Rip off bstrds the lot of them. And their driving sucks too.

And so, from a psychological point of view, is it that lawlessness (whatever anybody says) that attracts these types? Do these people suddenly lose their conscience (knowing they stand a good chance of getting away with it), or a combination of the two?

From a psychological point of view, I am sure most of these people do not behave the way you describe when back on their native soil. Were they to do that, then I doubt they would be here. Let's dismiss the low percentage of fugitives and scofflaws.

From a psychological point of view, have you ever stopped to consider that possibly the Thai cultural environment enables people's character defects to the point that they slip and slide a bit further and further each day and night they remain here?

Apart from your generalizations about foreigners being bad already when they arrive, I will have to disagree and say that a lot of people who are fairly decent folk, come here and get tripped up by culture that nurtures primarily the worst nature in man.

True; the sex-tourists come here for the sex, but I submit most of them don't know what they are getting into. I am describing mostly males, whose idea of a sex tour back home is going out to a pub and taking number to get in line with 40 or 50 other males who are competing for the attentions of 2 or 3 heifers; and hoping that they can get some if they win out over the pack. This is true, and I submit when these males come here and find the odds and physical appearances reversed. It is quite intoxicating, I assure you. This happens to be my opinion from personal experience way back when. This is not a slam on foreign women, just a truth.

Just another paradigm to consider?

[evanson]

I think this is one of the better editorials I have read.

The term "moral compass" is an interesting one. I'm trying to figure out if the Thais, as a society, have a moral compass. I believe that moral compasses are often hazy everywhere in the world. But I think that most nations can define what their country's moral compass is. Just for clarity's sake, there was a time when America's moral compass was manifest destiny. All things considered, it built a nation, but trampled on large groups of people while doing so. But it was fairly definable. "The sun never sets on the British empire." The concept had its faults, but it was a definable national moral compass. But, post-King Chulalongkorn, I find it impossible to determine any national moral compass in Thailand.

Then it comes to defining personal moral compasses. Buddhism? I'd have to say no. As beautiful as many aspects of Buddhism are in Thailand (and I consider myself to some extent a converted Buddhist), Buddhism in Thailand is horribly mixed in with animism, as well as we commonly seeing Thais worshiping Hindu dieties. And the principles of Buddhism are very different than the principles of Hinduism.

Who among us can't run down a list of things so common in Thailand that we would have to question the existence of a moral compass: Little things like the undefinable Thai smile that is often a means of taking advantage of a situation, to scams, to rampant prostitution (including child prostitution), to bribery as an accepted way of life, to a general concept of taking advantage, to copyright rip-offs, and, yes, to modern Thai politics.

And yet, as most of us would agree, Thais seem to be "nice", "friendly", "helpful", "kind", etc.

So my question is, what is the Thai moral compass? Can it be defined?

What I find more interesting is how many 'farang' come here and throw whatever 'moral compass' they had out the window. As any 'farang', of whatever nationality will tell you, the expat contingent are by far and away worse than their Thai counterparts when it comes to lying/thieving/scamming their fellow 'farang', in predominantly expat areas/communities. Phuket being the worst closely followed by Pattaya and Hua Hin. I will never deal with a 'farang' run business here on Phuket, from carpentry to 'lawyers'. Rip off bstrds the lot of them. And their driving sucks too.

And so, from a psychological point of view, is it that lawlessness (whatever anybody says) that attracts these types? Do these people suddenly lose their conscience (knowing they stand a good chance of getting away with it), or a combination of the two?

From a psychological point of view, I am sure most of these people do not behave the way you describe when back on their native soil. Were they to do that, then I doubt they would be here. Let's dismiss the low percentage of fugitives and scofflaws.

From a psychological point of view, have you ever stopped to consider that possibly the Thai cultural environment enables people's character defects to the point that they slip and slide a bit further and further each day and night they remain here?

Apart from your generalizations about foreigners being bad already when they arrive, I will have to disagree and say that a lot of people who are fairly decent folk, come here and get tripped up by culture that nurtures primarily the worst nature in man.

True; the sex-tourists come here for the sex, but I submit most of them don't know what they are getting into. I am describing mostly males, whose idea of a sex tour back home is going out to a pub and taking number to get in line with 40 or 50 other males who are competing for the attentions of 2 or 3 heifers; and hoping that they can get some if they win out over the pack. This is true, and I submit when these males come here and find the odds and physical appearances reversed. It is quite intoxicating, I assure you. This happens to be my opinion from personal experience way back when. This is not a slam on foreign women, just a truth.

Just another paradigm to consider?

In answer to your first point, are you seriously arguing that all and everyone can turn into a degenerate criminal merely by virtue of the fact that they are in a 'perceived' 'no boundaries country'? If so, you are completely and utterly wrong. There are as many, if not more 'good' expats as there are locals. It's simply that the difficulties of the 'farang' mindset - 'well I wouldn't be able to get away with this back home' assist their delusional thinking. I would never dream of attempting to steal/scam anyone, farang or Thai, and know many of the same 'mindset',

Secondly, your equating people with a herd of cattle speaks volumes about you. You're either very old or very drunk.

In which case, the use of the term 'new paradigm' suggests to me you should get off IONS and Quantum Theory via Youtube for a while. You don't sound intelligent, merely pretentious.

Edited July 11, 2011 by evanson