Top Academics Oppose Pheu Thai Computer Tablets Plan

[arrowsdawdle]

I'm all for computers in the classroom. Text books are VERY expensive and some are out of date when purchased. The trick is to have computers that have no way for the students to input their own virus laded programs. The goal is to have the proper software for teaching. Software could be updated and/or added through a port that will only work for that purpose.

Corporations do it all the time, just create limited user accounts and disable the USB ports and download permissions in GPO without admin approval. Then you can create virtual partitions on the HDDs and have the PCs re-image every morning. Viruses are a non-issue.

[animatic]

As a basic concept at some point it is fine.

As a integrated teaching tool in the Thai school system

it has nothing to offer. Why?

Because there is not organized integrated system to go with of what and how to use this and learn. Add to that that organizing a working system of learning IS the main fail point for much of the Thia school system from it's basic organization top to bottom. It's so 30-60's.

So how can we expect 'change adverse' teaching and administrative staff :

To come up with a coherent plan

without proper software available by 2012 for the roll out.

Without migrating the course curriculum materials to digital form.

Without training the teachers to understand the software

better than the students

All trained be WiFi systems integrators,

or hire local WiFi set up people.

------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------

All the above, when it's like pulling hens teeth to get them to change using books and the classic substandard teaching methods they are locked into. Can you imagine the typical techno geek trainer coming to the teachers meeting and TELLING the teachers how to do thus and such, when he likely is 10 years younger than they are.... Hostility simmering the whole meeting

I love my iPad, and do use it for my child's learning, but I also have looked at most apps and do NOT see a coherent learning solution there yet. Some things certainly can help... but what is there in Thai that will be available and properly trouble shot in the next 6 months?????

Edited July 11, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

It doesn't appear negative it is negative, the poster noted lack of interest and he made it his goal to create interest. Also when most would dismiss the disrupted student, he had the insight to see that everyone has something to offer, you just have to look for it, which is exactly what he did and it worked

Positive actions positive results, negative thinking, no result at all

But I think the point most people are making is, Yes, computers could help students, but at the moment the skills of most of the teachers, and the quality of the system as a whole, is not conducive to this plan being successful.

I commend 'visions' on his success, and I am sure he would make use of tablets for students. But most teachers are not proactive enough to teach now. How will they cope with tablet computers being added to the mix?

One simple thing the teachers can do is teach students how to do a search. Then students can find out anything they want at any time they like and from a variety of sources. Tabs dont have to be used all the time in every class. Of course there are reasons why reactionaries would not want students accesing information other than what is taught in school.

Search is great...

except when 70 students are trying to search the same thing via on wifi hub for the whole class.

Ok here's how you do it... now go home and do it...uh.... where,

who's gonna give the kids free WiFi. Most businesses don't want the bandwidth drain

and most alternatives are cash only.

DTAC CDMA SIM card eats cash and can only be filled to 100baht, after putting it in a cell phone with adaptor.

I want this too work...

just being devils advocate of problems I see.

Edited July 11, 2011 by animatic

[arrowsdawdle]

Resistance to this is from tech-illiterate teachers and administrators that are too lazy to learn, and from slackers that are worried about being held to account for BS they spread. How easy it would be for a student to Google topics to check the accuracy of what they are being taught. Can't have that. And technology facilitates self learning which is why distance learning is the fastest growing segment of proprietary and degree programs in the first world. God forbid that self learning would take hold in Thailand. That would cut deeply into the profits of charlatans calling themselves teachers that do not teach during school hours so they can get paid to tutor and babysit after school.

[EnhancePlus]

This thread reminds me of a debate about 10-15 years ago about GPS's.

Most said that they'll never amount to a reliable tool because they are limited by the batteries.

I laughed at them and I laugh at the naysayers now.

Computers will take over for teachers sooner or later.

Might as well get it started.

Yeah, because most morons don't know how to read a map. I have never used a GPS in my life, waste of money - now, where was I

Edited July 11, 2011 by EnhancePlus

[noahvail]

It doesn't appear negative it is negative, the poster noted lack of interest and he made it his goal to create interest. Also when most would dismiss the disrupted student, he had the insight to see that everyone has something to offer, you just have to look for it, which is exactly what he did and it worked

Positive actions positive results, negative thinking, no result at all

But I think the point most people are making is, Yes, computers could help students, but at the moment the skills of most of the teachers, and the quality of the system as a whole, is not conducive to this plan being successful.

I commend 'visions' on his success, and I am sure he would make use of tablets for students. But most teachers are not proactive enough to teach now. How will they cope with tablet computers being added to the mix?

One simple thing the teachers can do is teach students how to do a search. Then students can find out anything they want at any time they like and from a variety of sources. Tabs dont have to be used all the time in every class. Of course there are reasons why reactionaries would not want students accesing information other than what is taught in school.

Search is great...

except when 70 students are trying to search the same thing via on wifi hub for the whole class.

Ok here's how you do it... now go home and do it...uh.... where,

who's gonna give the kids free WiFi. Most businesses don't want the bandwidth drain

and most alternatives are cash only.

DTAC CDMA SIM card eats cash and can only be filled to 100baht, after putting it in a cell phone with adaptor.

I want this too work...

just being devils advocate of problems I see.

Searching IS great. But even if the bandwidth is available, there is a lot of stuff out there that could be described as misinformation or disinformation.

Critical thinking needs to be taught before doing a google on almost anything. Without critical thinking, and appropriate adult supervision, search results can be sources of confusion and overkill.

So, I guess it comes back to the abilities of the teachers.

[Britannia]

It doesn't appear negative it is negative, the poster noted lack of interest and he made it his goal to create interest. Also when most would dismiss the disrupted student, he had the insight to see that everyone has something to offer, you just have to look for it, which is exactly what he did and it worked

Positive actions positive results, negative thinking, no result at all

But I think the point most people are making is, Yes, computers could help students, but at the moment the skills of most of the teachers, and the quality of the system as a whole, is not conducive to this plan being successful.

I commend 'visions' on his success, and I am sure he would make use of tablets for students. But most teachers are not proactive enough to teach now. How will they cope with tablet computers being added to the mix?

I go along with your statements, he is commendable and to get other teachers even to have a small glint of what he done would be a task, not only in Thailand I would stress, I am sure all of us know some Farang teachers here in Thailand, and their attitude seems to be they don’t want to learn, therefore take the money have the work permit and whatever. Lots of disruptive kids in the school, lots of disruptive kids in schools from all countries

Even training the teachers would have very little effect the same as this poster had, because he wanted to educate, he looked for a way to do it, unconventional, and maybe we should all be looking at the unconventional

Respect for this man

[hyperdimension]

One simple thing the teachers can do is teach students how to do a search. Then students can find out anything they want at any time they like and from a variety of sources. Tabs dont have to be used all the time in every class.

Yes, a computer (whether it be a tablet PC or desktop) with unrestricted internet access can open up a world of almost unlimited knowledge. But do you think 5 or 6 year old is going to have any internet research skills, given that they may not even be able to read much English (the main language of the internet) or Thai?

[hyperdimension]

I wouldn't rush to open a pawn shop if I were you. Any tablets or notebooks they buy for students will be the cheepest of the cheap Chinese knockoffs that can be found. Lifespan less then 2 months if used with care.

You mean they aren't giving out iPads?

Genuine iPads cost over 3 times as much as the 5K THB each that Pheu Thai has budgeted. So the students are definitely going to get something much inferior.

[hyperdimension]

I wouldn't rush to open a pawn shop if I were you. Any tablets or notebooks they buy for students will be the cheepest of the cheap Chinese knockoffs that can be found. Lifespan less then 2 months if used with care.

You mean they aren't giving out iPads?

Genuine iPads cost over 3 times as much as the 5K THB each that Pheu Thai has budgeted. So the students are definitely going to get something much inferior.

From the web page to which Xangsamhua provided the link:

Why they chose the iPad:

Many of the reasons for the choice are practical:

Adequate screen size

light weight

thin

well-constructed

cost effective in comparison to laptops

Can switch on and off quickly, allowing them to be used in short bursts

Long battery life (whole day use without the need for installing many cables in the classroom for charging)

Connectivity - works easily over a wifi network

Personal Learning Device - students can easily carry it around with them and integrate it into their daily life activities

Alternatives:

The school did look at alternatives and at the time of implementation, they did not find any other suitable tablets on the market. By doing a comparison of what was available, they found that the iPad was the best device for their needs.

They did consider using Laptops and recognized that despite being less powerful, the iPads would work well most of the time for what was needed.

So they determined that a genuine iPad for them was the best choice.

I think the 5K THB tablet PCs for Thai students are going to be junk, possibly low performance and short battery life. How would it be possible to explain to a 5 or 6 year old that the tablet PC operating system just crashed?

Edited July 11, 2011 by hyperdimension

[hammered]

One simple thing the teachers can do is teach students how to do a search. Then students can find out anything they want at any time they like and from a variety of sources. Tabs dont have to be used all the time in every class.

Yes, a computer (whether it be a tablet PC or desktop) with unrestricted internet access can open up a world of almost unlimited knowledge. But do you think 5 or 6 year old is going to have any internet research skills, given that they may not even be able to read much English (the main language of the internet) or Thai?

The earlier they become accustomed to handling modern technology the better for their future. Kids learn so quickly and the internet isnt only full of words.

[hyperdimension]

One simple thing the teachers can do is teach students how to do a search. Then students can find out anything they want at any time they like and from a variety of sources. Tabs dont have to be used all the time in every class.

Yes, a computer (whether it be a tablet PC or desktop) with unrestricted internet access can open up a world of almost unlimited knowledge. But do you think 5 or 6 year old is going to have any internet research skills, given that they may not even be able to read much English (the main language of the internet) or Thai?

The earlier they become accustomed to handling modern technology the better for their future. Kids learn so quickly and the internet isnt only full of words.

Ah yes, the internet has plenty of graphic material too... there would no longer be any need for illustrated biology text books. . Classroom biology text books don't teach "everything" anyway.

[exbelg]

as farang: give them the tablets and don't care if they play games

if thailand wants to be competitive, they can be in the cheap labour section, never the high tech IT anyways

so let little somchai play his games on his tablet, it will prepare him for a low pay factory job and thailand can have a lot of those cheap no brain labours

[DP25]

Visions. While i agree with a lot of what you said.. you can not be serious about this statement surely.

" No one adds or subtracts or any other maths in their head."

Maybe they don't but they should be ABLE to have this basic ability. basic arithmetic is used every day. shopping etc.

And i believe Thailand is just not ready for this yet and it's a waste of money which could be used more efficiently elsewhere in the education system.

Yeah I agree, that is just completely ridiculous. You can't use calculators in many university in math classes anyway. You HAVE to be able to do everything yourself.

Technology is great, but the basics are by far the most important.

[goldcountry]

Is there such thing as an "academic" in Thailand? LOL.

[hammered]

as farang: give them the tablets and don't care if they play games

if thailand wants to be competitive, they can be in the cheap labour section, never the high tech IT anyways

so let little somchai play his games on his tablet, it will prepare him for a low pay factory job and thailand can have a lot of those cheap no brain labours

Actually kids playing computer games is seen by many into child development to improve hand eye coordination and depending on game enhance problem solving abilities. Im not advocating kids game all day long but a daily dose of gaming is no bad thing.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Maitree said: "It's useless if you [Pheu Thai] just give them tablets, while there are no e-books or other software that will help arouse their learning. Lots of students now cannot even [calculate numbers], which is a basic skill."

Hm.. I have a kid in P.1 and they learn math skills just fine. (At a level higher than when I was that age). What's missing is applying it in real world things.

So while my kid can add 43 to 36 just fine, she couldn't answer how old she will be in 10 years time, or how many Chupa Chups she can buy for 15 baht.

The Mrs. is taking care of that missing part, but hopefully some good tablet software will help to visualize real-world use of the math skills they learn.

[whybother]

So they determined that a genuine iPad for them was the best choice.

I think the 5K THB tablet PCs for Thai students are going to be junk, possibly low performance and short battery life. How would it be possible to explain to a 5 or 6 year old that the tablet PC operating system just crashed?

There are a lot of new tablets being released now, mainly based around android, and they are cheaper than iPads. Whether the price will come down to 4,000 baht in the next 6 months is unlikely.

[Xangsamhua]

Searching IS great. But even if the bandwidth is available, there is a lot of stuff out there that could be described as misinformation or disinformation.

Critical thinking needs to be taught before doing a google on almost anything. Without critical thinking, and appropriate adult supervision, search results can be sources of confusion and overkill.

So, I guess it comes back to the abilities of the teachers.

Agreed. It's been said that the Net generation, Generation Z, etc are "techno-oriented", but this alone doesn't make them "techno-savvy". They need good teachers and good school librarians who can teach thinking skills and the ability to discern information from misinformation in addition to search and navigation skills.

(As an aside, a lot of adults need guidance in detecting the tell-tale signs of a viral email or misattributed quote. Yet it's the very same internet that we then use to pick up the attempted manipulation or the innocent error.)

[LivinLOS]

BTW, where's the internet access going to come from, and who's going to be paying for it, for all the pad and netbook-carrying kiddies out in the boonies?

Will each one come with a 12Call sim embedded to help his old partners

[Britannia]

Visions. While i agree with a lot of what you said.. you can not be serious about this statement surely.

" No one adds or subtracts or any other maths in their head."

Maybe they don't but they should be ABLE to have this basic ability. basic arithmetic is used every day. shopping etc.

And i believe Thailand is just not ready for this yet and it's a waste of money which could be used more efficiently elsewhere in the education system.

Go to England and see how many like those working in Fish & Chip shops etc. can not add up without the aid of a calculator.

We are living in a different time warp, no need for using the brain when there are gadgets that can do it for you, it is now the same all over the world with the younger generations, its called evolution

Edited July 11, 2011 by Britannia

[legend23]

If you look at many things government orchestrated in any country, things get overlooked, like the details. Add up the numbers for the actual thing and multiply it by a lot then you have a "budget" figure. The implementation costs generally double or triple the "budget" figure.

They will probably implement it the wrong way and everyone will lose, except for the supplier and the opposition who will gain political capital.

There are so many good ideas coming out of this topic but no one in Govt will be looking here to assist in the policy making, I'm sure. Keep up the great works guys.

As for Thai teaching standards at all levels, I have a degree qualified accountant friend who can't multiply 700 x 8 without using a calculator, yet a mountain girl with grade 4 can do 45 x 6 in her head. It scares me. And they won't try either!!!

[JohnAllan]

One of the major problems with Thai education is that the teaching methods and content are decades behind the "real life" the kids live in today.

During my time teaching English in schools where 95% of students had no desire, and no need to learn/use English ever, I quickly realised the need for me to create the learning environment where the kids wanted to learn.

I had classes from P1 to P6 and a total of approxomately 800 students per week, and they had had native English speaking teachers for about 3 years prior to my taking over, with absolutly zero results. When I took over the position I was having the same zero results. It was a total waste of time and money teaching to kids that refused to learn. I realised that the only way i could acieve any results at all (and keep my job) was to change the teaching method to make the students WANT to learn. So......what did the kids enjoy doing............after school they all headed for the net shop and played com games, so it was obvious what I needed to do.

I threw out all the textbooks etc and instead set up my laptop and a large screen LED TV and sound system as my teaching tools. I changed rooms every hour so it had to be easily set up and transportable

I used cartoons and computer games and karaoki vids as my teaching material. I found an immediate 100% turnaround in my students attention and attitude. The worst trouble makers I always targeted for managing the games etc for the students. Result....they felt wanted and became leaders instead of laggards. Of course, ALL the cartoons, games, and songs were in English. Within a year virtually ALL of my students could use very basic English. After 2 years it was possible to have a very basic conversation with most of the students.

The same methods can be used for science and even maths, there is a large range of software available if you are prepared to look. With schools getting Wi Fi it becomes even easier. ( not available when I was teaching)

So to all the knockers of using technology in teaching, need get their heads out of the sand and provide "todays" technology for kids to learn. I can clearly remember when pocket calculators first became available (yes I am that old now) and we were not allowed to use them at school. Nowdays no one would contemplate NOT using them. Sure it takes away the basic mental skill of maths, but show me where that skill is used or required now? If you cant use a computer you cant get a job. Even in basic hand skills manufacturing , technology has taken over, and the skills to use that technology is a basic requirement for employment.

So dont knock it...get behind the push to tech teaching,

BUT, the key is...... it does need the relevant software AND teacher training (which is also decades behind) to make it work.

Its all about having FUN and ENJOYMENT.

Getting kids to learn has ALWAYS been about makling it fun - and they didn't have the technology to do that, not all that long ago. The teachers needed to be innovative.

I agree with the general view: get the education basics to the level they should be - then worry about tablets, netbooks and notebooks.

But we are in Thailand. Someone, somewhere, will make money from this . . .

[johncat1]

My school allows gifted students to use laptops in class

I have NEVER seen them used for educational purposes only for games by the boys and Chat by the girls.

Students should be restricted to school computers where they can be supervised and controlled.

Any form of person computer used in the classroom will be misused by students.

Students will actually learn less because they will be playing games or chatting instead of listening to their teacher.

[rubl]

Maitree said: "It's useless if you [Pheu Thai] just give them tablets, while there are no e-books or other software that will help arouse their learning. Lots of students now cannot even [calculate numbers], which is a basic skill."

Hm.. I have a kid in P.1 and they learn math skills just fine. (At a level higher than when I was that age). What's missing is applying it in real world things.

So while my kid can add 43 to 36 just fine, she couldn't answer how old she will be in 10 years time, or how many Chupa Chups she can buy for 15 baht.

The Mrs. is taking care of that missing part, but hopefully some good tablet software will help to visualize real-world use of the math skills they learn.

There are various computer programs for children which help visualize various subjects like colours, counting, language, etc., etc.. Both in Thai and in English, mostly costing far less than 250 Baht. Very helpful and fun!

Of course having a proper and maintained setup in school would be preferable

[473geo]

If you look at many things government orchestrated in any country, things get overlooked, like the details. Add up the numbers for the actual thing and multiply it by a lot then you have a "budget" figure. The implementation costs generally double or triple the "budget" figure.

They will probably implement it the wrong way and everyone will lose, except for the supplier and the opposition who will gain political capital.

There are so many good ideas coming out of this topic but no one in Govt will be looking here to assist in the policy making, I'm sure. Keep up the great works guys.

As for Thai teaching standards at all levels, I have a degree qualified accountant friend who can't multiply 700 x 8 without using a calculator, yet a mountain girl with grade 4 can do 45 x 6 in her head. It scares me. And they won't try either!!!

My daughter was bringing home text books and a pencil and rubber for home work from school, the text book could not tell her if the answer was wrong and to try again

I set up a simple spreadsheet, in doing the mental arithmatic she would get 'well done' if correct or 'try again' if wrong, and she kept going until she got it right, all along learning how to use the simple computer functions

She thought it was fun, and is eager to complete the exercises I set.

I was quite pleasantly surprised , I set simple tasks at first to allow her to concentrate on the functions of the computer as much as the calculation itself .now she is pretty amazing at doing the numbers in her head, + / * - and I have/am steadily increasing the level of complication....the down side, in a few months I am sure she will figure out how the spreadsheet calculates

There is talent in Thailand but there must be a wider scope of enabling.......and yes she does see the laptop as fun, as does my 4 year old son who is getting quite comfortable with the computer functions, playing educational and memory games.

So we can enable learning to be fun, and we can acknowledge that like it or not being comfortable with technology will always be an asset in the future..........or we can grind along looking to improve a slow labouring system

Edited July 11, 2011 by 473geo

[KKvampire]

it was peau thai promising all sorts of goodies to win ,\ Milk and Honey(or maybe cooking oil and chang Beer) running down the villages of Isaan would have been on their possible list of ill thought out manifesto pledges, But hey who needs to have anything thought through when making commitments to the poor masses.

[khaowong1]

Personal computer tablets could make children addicted to computer games and spending time alone or with just a few friends. They spend all their lunch money on games now, what would happen if they all had a free computer tablet. And how many of these tablets would end up being sold in the night markets, Half of them?

[aussiebebe]

If I had any say in the matter, the Kindles sold by Amazon are pretty nifty and would help learning without being misused. I still wouldn't advocate them to be given away though....

I think the proposal to gave away tablet computers would suitably prepare Thai students for their brain-dead adult life in Thailand though, especially if pro-Thaksin propaganda was distributed.

[473geo]

If I had any say in the matter, the Kindles sold by Amazon are pretty nifty and would help learning without being misused. I still wouldn't advocate them to be given away though....

I think the proposal to gave away tablet computers would suitably prepare Thai students for their brain-dead adult life in Thailand though, especially if pro-Thaksin propaganda was distributed.

I don't see many braindead around my area......where do you live?