Bt300 Minimum Wage To Cost Additional Bt140 Billion: Thai Chamber

[noahvail]

Care to take a stab at how many people actually work for companies, organisations, that have the option are likely to choose to relocate and run a business else where. (.after all you can hardly pick Thai rice in Cambodia) I think you will find there is a very small percentage... If business cannot absorb a slight increase in the minimum wage over say 3 years......time to for them to move on if they choose.

I haven't heard anyone say they'll phase in over three years - the latest is one year.

The Democrats' policy was to increase the minimum wage by 25% over two years. An eminently workable plan, one which would have helped reduce the gap between rich and poor. But the people have spoken in the election - evidently a balanced plan wasn't good enough.

[lannarebirth]

" The poor are already lining up behind a party that promises it now and constantly rejecting a party that says slowly. If the party they expect to give it now doesn't and they have already rejected the slowly and wait your turn approach what happens next?"

the shit will hit the fan..........

I think you´r right, the red shirt movment can easily turn on the PTP.

I don't think it can, though there may be small splinter groups. PTP and UDD are connected at the hip through extremely strong communication (propaganda) mechanisms.

[Moza]

Question.

Do the KFC worker get there payrise now or is it like all things in thailand forgoten.

[OzMick]

""You have to understand that it was a campaign speech." PTP deputy leader Plodprasop Suraswadi said yesterday.

There were many campaign speeches, and many of those seemed to me to have the same level of integrity. Trusting a politician is always a risky business. Trusting politicians with a known track record of perjury, corruption, abuse of position, use of violence, nepotism.....................make your own judgement.

[rubl]

Rather sad don't you think that so many are on the minimum wage at the outset, also why do those higher up the chain require adjustment to maintain the disparity.I wonder how many major companies actually pay the minimum wage, or is it the medium sized companies taking full advantage to uphold high profit margins?

Actually, a lot of the minimum wage jobs are in agriculture, service jobs and light industry. So, raising the minimum wage would have an immediate, direct impact on the price of food. The second area to be effected would be clothes and other light consumer goods. Ironically, most luxury goods are made by skilled labor or are imported & so would not be effected!

So, a dramatic raise in the minimum wage would have an immediate negative effect on the very people who it should help, but, aside from the negative impact on the economy as a whole, wouldn't really have much of an immediate impact on the middle or upper classes.

To put it simply, if the cost of producing a bag of rice increases by 30%, the price would jump from about 200b to 260b(or more). An extra sixty baht a month wouldn't really be noticed by a middle class family, but would be a considerable amount for a poorer family. Now, take that increase and apply to almost all locally produced foods & clothing and you can see that the increased wages would probably be more than offset by the increased cost of living. The hardest hit would be the elderly poor.

There are no shortcuts to alleviating poverty. What is needed is a long-term plan to improve job skills & education, combined with improved social services and all around economic reform. Their goals should be aimed at 2020, not 2012.

The simple solution is to phase the increase in over 3 years, but nobody to my knowledge has said that is not the way this will happen......as usual everybody is putting the cart before the horse.....

Interestingly the Dem's had this campaign pledge:

- Raise daily minimum wage by 25 percent in two years from current levels of 159-221 baht ($5-7), depending on the region, and improve labour skills

[Thaddeus]

Take any pre-school child and tell them that they can have one sweet now, or if they wait a while they can have three. Most of them will take the one sweet now.

Offer them three sweets now, you'll bag the lot.

[ginjag]

Take any pre-school child and tell them that they can have one sweet now, or if they wait a while they can have three. Most of them will take the one sweet now.

Offer them three sweets now, you'll bag the lot.

you must be from a posh area, we used to say "goodies". agree with what you said also. Here near all take NOW if they can have.

[Ricardo]

How about enforcing the current min wage?

Set wages on a provincial basis?

Continue to set different minimum-wages for different areas, and you deliberately perpetuate the current disparity between (for example) Bangkok and Isaan, which is why PTP campaigned on the vastly-popular proposal of 300B/day across-the-board.

PTP having been elected, Thaksin now says it will be 300B/day in Bangkok only, what was that about him wanting to help the poorer-people, living in the lower-paid country areas ? He's not even offering to reduce the disparity over time !

The street-Reds may rightly feel betrayed over this, especially if the Red-propaganda-machine were to tell the truth, about who it is that's now putting Bangkok ahead of the poorer countryside ... but what chance of that ?

Suddenly the more-sensible more-affordable Democrat-proposal of a rise to 300B/day over a couple of years looks more attractive, than another Thaksin/PTP promise that turns out to have been hogwash, too late for the voters to act upon it. Yay for Thaksin & Red Democracy !

Or will PM-elect Yingluck herself stand-up for the poor, and deliver what she & her party promised, only a few weeks ago ? I'd like to hope so, but am not holding my breath.

[aaacorp]

To fund this program maybe they can try to resell on ebay the wonderful explosives detectors they bought for the army....and which are useless, or maybe reduce the army budget....oh no sure the last one is impossible

[lannarebirth]

Take any pre-school child and tell them that they can have one sweet now, or if they wait a while they can have three. Most of them will take the one sweet now.

Offer them three sweets now, you'll bag the lot.

you must be from a posh area, we used to say "goodies". agree with what you said also. Here near all take NOW if they can have.

Is it any wonder when all that was promised evaporated in a matter of days?

[ginjag]

To fund this program maybe they can try to resell on ebay the wonderful explosives detectors they bought for the army....and which are useless, or maybe reduce the army budget....oh no sure the last one is impossible

and the aircraft carrier=submarines=if half the corruption was stopped they could have 600 bht min wage

[Thaddeus]

Take any pre-school child and tell them that they can have one sweet now, or if they wait a while they can have three. Most of them will take the one sweet now.

Offer them three sweets now, you'll bag the lot.

you must be from a posh area, we used to say "goodies". agree with what you said also. Here near all take NOW if they can have.

Is it any wonder when all that was promised evaporated in a matter of days?

And it will be small wonder if the three sweets aren't delivered promptly that the child throws a tantrum of major proportions.

Which makes me wonder if the source of these promises is really that smart after all, or if he truly believes that he can say anything and get away it.

[Ricardo]

To fund this program maybe they can try to resell on ebay the wonderful explosives detectors they bought for the army....and which are useless, or maybe reduce the army budget....oh no sure the last one is impossible

and the aircraft carrier=submarines=if half the corruption was stopped they could have 600 bht min wage

It might also help if certain Prime-Ministers were more willing to pay a little tax from-time-to-time.

[lannarebirth]

Take any pre-school child and tell them that they can have one sweet now, or if they wait a while they can have three. Most of them will take the one sweet now.

Offer them three sweets now, you'll bag the lot.

you must be from a posh area, we used to say "goodies". agree with what you said also. Here near all take NOW if they can have.

Is it any wonder when all that was promised evaporated in a matter of days?

And it will be small wonder if the three sweets aren't delivered promptly that the child throws a tantrum of major proportions.

Which makes me wonder if the source of these promises is really that smart after all, or if he truly believes that he can say anything and get away it.

I have never been one to credit Thaksin with being smart. Not even in a Machiavellian sort of way. What is clear is that he has such contempt for his followers that he believes they will swallow any piece of shit he cares to feed them. So far he's been right but his luck won't hold out forever. The "amartya" bears not a little responsibility for such a despicable character rising to power.

Edited July 15, 2011 by lannarebirth

[hammered]

How about enforcing the current min wage?

Set wages on a provincial basis?

Continue to set different minimum-wages for different areas, and you deliberately perpetuate the current disparity between (for example) Bangkok and Isaan, which is why PTP campaigned on the vastly-popular proposal of 300B/day across-the-board.

PTP having been elected, Thaksin now says it will be 300B/day in Bangkok only, what was that about him wanting to help the poorer-people, living in the lower-paid country areas ? He's not even offering to reduce the disparity over time !

The street-Reds may rightly feel betrayed over this, especially if the Red-propaganda-machine were to tell the truth, about who it is that's now putting Bangkok ahead of the poorer countryside ... but what chance of that ?

Suddenly the more-sensible more-affordable Democrat-proposal of a rise to 300B/day over a couple of years looks more attractive, than another Thaksin/PTP promise that turns out to have been hogwash, too late for the voters to act upon it. Yay for Thaksin & Red Democracy !

Or will PM-elect Yingluck herself stand-up for the poor, and deliver what she & her party promised, only a few weeks ago ? I'd like to hope so, but am not holding my breath.

Today several PTP spokepeople have been stresing 300 baht countrywide within a year. Lets await the policy statement before judging everything though as in all likelihood PTP are here to stay and will be in government for a long time

The Dem proposals have one problem: they were proposed by the dems who are basically unelectable, and that is one of the biggest problems the country faces. It doesnt have a viable alternative to PTP. The Dems to serve democracy and Thailand need to reinvent asap. Ridding themsleves of Abhisit asap will be their first test

The estbalishment parties: we will take care of you little by little and you can trust us line is not believed because of history. Now is not the time for little drip feeds as the rich get richer, it is a time for dramatic changes. PTP, reds and Thaksin all get this. The establishment dont.

[rubl]

How about enforcing the current min wage?

Set wages on a provincial basis?

Continue to set different minimum-wages for different areas, and you deliberately perpetuate the current disparity between (for example) Bangkok and Isaan, which is why PTP campaigned on the vastly-popular proposal of 300B/day across-the-board.

PTP having been elected, Thaksin now says it will be 300B/day in Bangkok only, what was that about him wanting to help the poorer-people, living in the lower-paid country areas ? He's not even offering to reduce the disparity over time !

The street-Reds may rightly feel betrayed over this, especially if the Red-propaganda-machine were to tell the truth, about who it is that's now putting Bangkok ahead of the poorer countryside ... but what chance of that ?

Suddenly the more-sensible more-affordable Democrat-proposal of a rise to 300B/day over a couple of years looks more attractive, than another Thaksin/PTP promise that turns out to have been hogwash, too late for the voters to act upon it. Yay for Thaksin & Red Democracy !

Or will PM-elect Yingluck herself stand-up for the poor, and deliver what she & her party promised, only a few weeks ago ? I'd like to hope so, but am not holding my breath.

Today several PTP spokepeople have been stresing 300 baht countrywide within a year. Lets await the policy statement before judging everything though as in all likelihood PTP are here to stay and will be in government for a long time

The Dem proposals have one problem: they were proposed by the dems who are basically unelectable, and that is one of the biggest problems the country faces. It doesnt have a viable alternative to PTP. The Dems to serve democracy and Thailand need to reinvent asap. Ridding themsleves of Abhisit asap will be their first test

The estbalishment parties: we will take care of you little by little and you can trust us line is not believed because of history. Now is not the time for little drip feeds as the rich get richer, it is a time for dramatic changes. PTP, reds and Thaksin all get this. The establishment dont.

The rich get richer, it's time for dramatic changes. Only a bit of a pity you threw in k. Thaksin in the equation, you know, that amply rich guy

[Crushdepth]

How about enforcing the current min wage?

Set wages on a provincial basis?

Continue to set different minimum-wages for different areas, and you deliberately perpetuate the current disparity between (for example) Bangkok and Isaan, which is why PTP campaigned on the vastly-popular proposal of 300B/day across-the-board.

PTP having been elected, Thaksin now says it will be 300B/day in Bangkok only, what was that about him wanting to help the poorer-people, living in the lower-paid country areas ? He's not even offering to reduce the disparity over time !

The street-Reds may rightly feel betrayed over this, especially if the Red-propaganda-machine were to tell the truth, about who it is that's now putting Bangkok ahead of the poorer countryside ... but what chance of that ?

Suddenly the more-sensible more-affordable Democrat-proposal of a rise to 300B/day over a couple of years looks more attractive, than another Thaksin/PTP promise that turns out to have been hogwash, too late for the voters to act upon it. Yay for Thaksin & Red Democracy !

Or will PM-elect Yingluck herself stand-up for the poor, and deliver what she & her party promised, only a few weeks ago ? I'd like to hope so, but am not holding my breath.

Today several PTP spokepeople have been stresing 300 baht countrywide within a year. Lets await the policy statement before judging everything though as in all likelihood PTP are here to stay and will be in government for a long time

The Dem proposals have one problem: they were proposed by the dems who are basically unelectable, and that is one of the biggest problems the country faces. It doesnt have a viable alternative to PTP. The Dems to serve democracy and Thailand need to reinvent asap. Ridding themsleves of Abhisit asap will be their first test

The estbalishment parties: we will take care of you little by little and you can trust us line is not believed because of history. Now is not the time for little drip feeds as the rich get richer, it is a time for dramatic changes. PTP, reds and Thaksin all get this. The establishment dont.

I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. 12 months from now the 300 baht minimum wage will be nowhere to be seen. It's not feasible today, and it won't be feasible in 12 months time either, because there won't be a corresponding productivity increase to back it.

[OzMick]

How about enforcing the current min wage?

Set wages on a provincial basis?

Continue to set different minimum-wages for different areas, and you deliberately perpetuate the current disparity between (for example) Bangkok and Isaan, which is why PTP campaigned on the vastly-popular proposal of 300B/day across-the-board.

PTP having been elected, Thaksin now says it will be 300B/day in Bangkok only, what was that about him wanting to help the poorer-people, living in the lower-paid country areas ? He's not even offering to reduce the disparity over time !

The street-Reds may rightly feel betrayed over this, especially if the Red-propaganda-machine were to tell the truth, about who it is that's now putting Bangkok ahead of the poorer countryside ... but what chance of that ?

Suddenly the more-sensible more-affordable Democrat-proposal of a rise to 300B/day over a couple of years looks more attractive, than another Thaksin/PTP promise that turns out to have been hogwash, too late for the voters to act upon it. Yay for Thaksin & Red Democracy !

Or will PM-elect Yingluck herself stand-up for the poor, and deliver what she & her party promised, only a few weeks ago ? I'd like to hope so, but am not holding my breath.

Today several PTP spokepeople have been stresing 300 baht countrywide within a year. Lets await the policy statement before judging everything though as in all likelihood PTP are here to stay and will be in government for a long time

The Dem proposals have one problem: they were proposed by the dems who are basically unelectable, and that is one of the biggest problems the country faces. It doesnt have a viable alternative to PTP. The Dems to serve democracy and Thailand need to reinvent asap. Ridding themsleves of Abhisit asap will be their first test

The estbalishment parties: we will take care of you little by little and you can trust us line is not believed because of history. Now is not the time for little drip feeds as the rich get richer, it is a time for dramatic changes. PTP, reds and Thaksin all get this. The establishment dont.

"Today several PTP spokepeople have been stresing 300 baht countrywide within a year"

You have to understand, it was only a post-campaign speech!

[scorecard]

I have no idea what I am talking about.

That being said I was wondering if when you say a high profit margin are you talking about the percentage return on the money they have invested.

For instance 10,000,000 baht profit is a lot of money. But if they invested 10,000,000,000 to get it would it still be a high profit margin. Would a person invest there money in a company that only returned 1% on it?

That's exactly the point. People and companies that invest their money want a return on their investment. If they can't get it in Thailand, they will look for it somewhere else. Without the investment dollars, there is no company. Without the company, there are no jobs. Pointless have a large increase in minimum wage then, isn't it?

(Maybe I should have put "high profit margins" in quotes to refer to 473geo's term.)

Care to take a stab at how many people actually work for companies, organisations, that have the option are likely to choose to relocate and run a business else where. (.after all you can hardly pick Thai rice in Cambodia) I think you will find there is a very small percentage... If business cannot absorb a slight increase in the minimum wage over say 3 years......time to for them to move on if they choose.

Like in any country small businees employs a lot of people, far far more than big enterprise or agriculture. And, like in all countries, a large percentage of small business struggle.

[473geo]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages........ .......must be some business

[UphillStruggle]

If you ask people on the minimum wage in the UK if they feel richer since it came in, I doubt you get any who say yes. All a minimum wage does is raise living costs and create unemployment which will force more wages down to the minimum. A minimum wage gives employers something to aim for! The end result will be government subsidies for firms to create jobs which will be paid for by taxing workers. The worst part is that the large firms will just pocket the subsidies instead of creating jobs. Therefore the minimum wage is just a transference of money from workers to large firms.

[lannarebirth]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages........ .......must be some business

Some noodle shops I go into have 4-5 girls working. 1-2 girls could do the job but still they have 4-5 girls. Mostly friends or relatives from some faraway village. The proprietor, who may or may not be related to them "takes care" of these girls so they don't come to harm. They sleep in the back or upstairs somewhere.

No one works very hard and no one's paid very much, and the proprietors aren't making much either. While i'm all for raising the minimum wage to 300 baht (or even 400), what do you think will be the consequences for these little noodle shops I'm talking about?

Edited July 15, 2011 by lannarebirth

[rubl]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages........ .......must be some business

All in (Thai) perspective, my dear chap. With western eyes it may seem absurd, but we're talking about Thailand. Minimum wage earners mostly work 28 days a month. Productivity is very low with minimum wage earners (I wouldn't really work hard either I think), but that means a few people are needed where in other countries one will do the job.

So to conclude, without further details and background info to compare things, your remarks are of no value. Nothing personal, just my opinion.

Stay cool and keep smiling

Edited July 15, 2011 by rubl

[makescents]

Question.

Do the KFC worker get there payrise now or is it like all things in thailand forgoten.

No they get sacked for trying to form a union.

[473geo]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages........ .......must be some business

All in (Thai) perspective, my dear chap. With western eyes it may seem absurd, but we're talking about Thailand. Minimum wage earners mostly work 28 days a month. Productivity is very low with minimum wage earners (I wouldn't really work hard either I think), but that means a few people are needed where in other countries one will do the job.

So to conclude, without further details and background info to compare things, your remarks are of no value. Nothing personal, just my opinion.

Stay cool and keep smiling

My remarks appear to carry about as much value as the current minimum salaries then Rubl.......you guys should really be ashamed of yourselves, know any countries that went bankrupt for introducing the minimum wage...and of course where ever it has been introduced there was outcry....what people failed to realise.....more to spend boosts consumer confidence and business thrives......never heard of that one?

And as for the noodle shops well maybe people will be able to afford to eat there more regularly, so as the business improves so can the salaries...and as the salaries improve the girls work harder and an upward spiral develops.....

Edited July 15, 2011 by 473geo

[lannarebirth]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages........ .......must be some business

All in (Thai) perspective, my dear chap. With western eyes it may seem absurd, but we're talking about Thailand. Minimum wage earners mostly work 28 days a month. Productivity is very low with minimum wage earners (I wouldn't really work hard either I think), but that means a few people are needed where in other countries one will do the job.

So to conclude, without further details and background info to compare things, your remarks are of no value. Nothing personal, just my opinion.

Stay cool and keep smiling

My remarks appear to carry about as much value as the current minimum salaries then Rubl.......you guys should really be ashamed of yourselves, know any countries that went bankrupt for introducing the minimum wage...and of course where ever it has been introduced there was outcry....what people failed to realise.....more to spend boosts consumer confidence and business thrives......never heard of that one?

And as for the noodle shops well maybe people will be able to afford to eat there more regularly, so as the business improves so can the salaries...and as the salaries improve the girls work harder and an upward spiral develops.....

Why should i be ashamed of myself? I'm for giving more money to the poorest laborers in this society. I employ 4 people myself and they all earn at least that much. I DO worry about the scenario I outlined in my post. IMO those proprietors will either skirt the minimum wage law or send some girls back to the village. I doubt very much they will all be paid the new minimum wage. Still, I'm in favor of it, but i recognize there will be fallout.

[rubl]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages........ .......must be some business

All in (Thai) perspective, my dear chap. With western eyes it may seem absurd, but we're talking about Thailand. Minimum wage earners mostly work 28 days a month. Productivity is very low with minimum wage earners (I wouldn't really work hard either I think), but that means a few people are needed where in other countries one will do the job.

So to conclude, without further details and background info to compare things, your remarks are of no value. Nothing personal, just my opinion.

Stay cool and keep smiling

My remarks appear to carry about as much value as the current minimum salaries then Rubl.......you guys should really be ashamed of yourselves, know any countries that went bankrupt for introducing the minimum wage...and of course where ever it has been introduced there was outcry....what people failed to realise.....more to spend boosts consumer confidence and business thrives......never heard of that one?

And as for the noodle shops well maybe people will be able to afford to eat there more regularly, so as the business improves so can the salaries...and as the salaries improve the gorls work harder and an upward spiral develops.....

May I remind you that Thailand already knows the 'minimum wage' for ages. It's just that like in other countries that wage is increased in steps which the economy can bear without problems and hopefully a bit more.

When you look at the minimum wage in other countries it reflects (mostly) the economical progress and the stability of the economy. Higher minimum wages are offset by higher costs of living. One goes up, the other goes up. In Thailand we still have some adjustment to process, but even then a few small steps are much easier for the economy to absorb than one single large step.

As for the noodle shops, if the girls get 300B/day I don't think they will work harder. That's a workers mentality which (sorry to say) I haven't seen much in Thailand. If they would work harder the boss of the noodle shop may even be inclined to do with less of the girls. Also the noodles will probably be 40B a portion, 33.33% increase in price. Maybe the people wouldn't be able to eat there more frequently.

[473geo]

Well Gentlemen I suggest they give it a go, and let us bring Thai salaries more into line with their western counterparts, because in case you had not noticed, that is the way prices for the consumer are heading..........I see words like training, education, scattered among the solutions.......in reality let us give even the lowest paid a reasonable salary to aim for........might just be a starting point......because working for a pittance wears very thin very quickly.....

[siamcanuck]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages...............must be some business

5 day work week? Where did you come up with that in Thailand? Most businesses have 6 day work weeks so you are looking at an average of 26 work days per month, so correct your numbers and 7800 per month PER employee

The point has always been that Thailand in most sectors over employees, due to poor work habits by many Thai's and of course the low wages.. so if an employer that right now is paying 6 people full time wages at even 250 per day they will see their cost of the employees jump 1,000 baht per month per employee, with six of them that is almost another employee at the old rate.. meaning in many cases one of the six will be shown the door likely the one that spends extra time on the phone and doing noodle runs to the street vendor... or the business can keep all the employees and swallow the increased cost of doing business... I am sure that is what they would do every where else in the world right????

[473geo]

5 day working week maximum working days per month 22 x 300 baht = 6600 per month.........and you are telling me business cannot afford these wages...............must be some business

5 day work week? Where did you come up with that in Thailand? Most businesses have 6 day work weeks so you are looking at an average of 26 work days per month, so correct your numbers and 7800 per month PER employee

The point has always been that Thailand in most sectors over employees, due to poor work habits by many Thai's and of course the low wages.. so if an employer that right now is paying 6 people full time wages at even 250 per day they will see their cost of the employees jump 1,000 baht per month per employee, with six of them that is almost another employee at the old rate.. meaning in many cases one of the six will be shown the door likely the one that spends extra time on the phone and doing noodle runs to the street vendor... or the business can keep all the employees and swallow the increased cost of doing business... I am sure that is what they would do every where else in the world right????

5 people are then working for a reasonable wage, and have increased buying power, which means they go and buy off person no 6 who also has an increased wage and is working in the consumer sector........

Or you can be negative, do little, and wonder why once people have earned enough to eat, they do not work too hard for the remainder of the pittance they receive.......