Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[Thighlander]

I used my Visa card at the dentist and only got approx. 29.70. Another strange thing I noticed is Paying in THB saved me about 3 bucks on an Air Asia purchase of about 66 USD, using the capone card. However, I tried paying in THB on Agoda, and it was processed in London, and it looks like they took 1%.

Also, there may be differences in Cap One and Cap one 360.....might even be Canadian v. American.

[Pib]

I used my Visa card at the dentist and only got approx. 29.70. Another strange thing I noticed is Paying in THB saved me about 3 bucks on an Air Asia purchase of about 66 USD, using the capone card. However, I tried paying in THB on Agoda, and it was processed in London, and it looks like they took 1%.

Also, there may be differences in Cap One and Cap one 360.....might even be Canadian v. American.

A CapOne Visa credit or debit card or someone else's Visa card? What day was that charge if you remember?

Regarding the 3 bucks savings on a $66 purchase when paying in Thai baht, it's not uncommon for merchants to attempt a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) by default where basically you are accepting the "merchants" exchange rate which will probably be in the 4% lower rate ballpark based on my experience when some merchants attempted DCC on me, which I refused, told them to cancel that transaction and redo the transaction in Thai baht/local currency...then I was getting the full/no foreign transaction fee Visa or MasterCard exchange rate (depending on which card I was using). DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the merchant.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Also, there may be differences in Cap One and Cap one 360.....might even be Canadian v. American.

Thighlander, thanks for reporting your experience with being able to use your Cap One 360 MC debit card to withdraw cash from AEON ATMs...

As I had suggested earlier, the functionality of different cards -- Cap One ATM, original Cap One debit, new Cap One 360 MC debit -- may or may not be the same. And based on your report and my experience, obviously they're not the same, since my Cap One ATM card still won't function with AEON.

Just to be clear, meanwhile, can you confirm: is your Cap One 360 account a U.S. or Canada-based account? And, have you ever had your 360 card rejected at any AEON ATM you've tried to use?

It's a curious situation, I must say, especially since we've got members here who have the original Cap One debit cards (not 360) who continue to report problems using the AEON ATMs. Yours, I believe, is the first direct report we've had from a Cap One 360 debit card user.

So now, I guess my next step ought to be to contact Cap One, advise them of the situation with the 360 MC debit card, and ask if perhaps they have some updated version of their ATM card. I wouldn't expect much, but hey, it's a free phone call.

Edited July 14, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Thighlander]

I am a US citizen, and my deposits go to St. Cloud, Minnesota, which is the same as when it was ING.

On June 26, my bill was 2500 thb, and they did the dcc thing. First time I had seen that. It was 83.91 usd, which was 29.7938.

The Visa companies had a history of taking a cut, so I thought it seemed reasonable. They did say they tack on 2% at the Dentist for amounts over 20K. Used same credit card at Mcdonalds on 6-18, and 108 thb showed up as 3.52 so it was 30.68 thb.

So, was it 4% at the Dentist? As an American, I was thrilled to get out of there for 83 bucks, but now I know how to save a few bucks, which is cool with me. I know the exchange rates have been moving around a lot more than in the recent past.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Thighlander

[Pib]

I am a US citizen, and my deposits go to St. Cloud, Minnesota, which is the same as when it was ING.

On June 26, my bill was 2500 thb, and they did the dcc thing. First time I had seen that. It was 83.91 usd, which was 29.7938.

The Visa companies had a history of taking a cut, so I thought it seemed reasonable. They did say they tack on 2% at the Dentist for amounts over 20K. Used same credit card at Mcdonalds on 6-18, and 108 thb showed up as 3.52 so it was 30.68 thb.

So, was it 4% at the Dentist? As an American, I was thrilled to get out of there for 83 bucks, but now I know how to save a few bucks, which is cool with me. I know the exchange rates have been moving around a lot more than in the recent past.

Regarding that 26 Jun charge, the Visa 0% bank fee rate on that day was 30.88/USD. So, the merchant's/dentist's rate was approx. 3.5% lower than the full Visa exchange rate. Seems a 3 to 4% range for DCC transactions is very common.

The reason I asked if it was a Visa credit or debit card is because a "debit" card transaction settles immediately, but credit card transactions take several business days to settle (final post) although you will see the initial/temporary charge immediately. So, let's say the charge didn't settle/post until 1 Jul...the Visa full exchange rate for that day was 30.91, which still calculates out to approx. 3.5% lower rate. Basically the merchant and his card processing bank made approx. 3.5% more off you by doing a DCC transaction vs processing the charge in Thai baht. This assumes you have a no foreign transaction fee card.

Now on that 18 Jun McDonald's charge the full Visa exchange rate for that day was 30.48...but if it didn't settle/post until 3 business days later on 21 Jun the full Visa exchange rate was 30.81...pretty healthy FX rate change over a few days and that why it's important to consider the actual charge date and settlement/posting date for "credit" cards as exchange rates can change quite a bit form day to day sometimes. But I bet that McD's transaction posted around 21 Jun and that is the Visa exchange rate you got. "If" McD's uses a DCC by default for their transactions then their rate was approx. 3.6% below the full Visa rate for 21 Jun. I've never charged anything at McD's but if they print-out a receipt for your signature and it shows both a USD and THB charge, then that is a DCC transaction. If charged in Thai baht, the receipt would have only showed Thai baht.

Now, I'm assuming the Visa card issuing company, which you didn't mention, does not charge a foreign transaction fee. If your card is a CapOne Visa credit card then they don't charge a foreign transaction fee. If your card is a no foreign transaction fee card, then you are just getting DCC'ed to death. Easy to avoid that.

When handing a merchant your card tell the to "charge Thai baht, not U.S. dollars." And if they do a DCC transaction that prints out a receipt for signature showing both USD dollars and Thai baht, then tell them to cancel that transaction and rerun it in Thai baht. If they are truthful with you it will only take them about one or two minutes to cancel and rerun. I know, I've done it several time with merchants over the last few years. Be sure to keep a copy of the cancelled receipt/transaction just in the outside case you need it. Although the canceled charge may still hit your account it should drop off in a few days (it always has for me)...funny how initial charges hit your account immediately, but a cancellation/credit can take days.

And if doing some type of foreign online/ATM transaction and they use some type of wording offering to charge in you in USD or using "their rate", then that is most likely a DCC transaction which will result in a lower exchange rate. You most likely will not see anything saying "DCC specifically," it will just be smoke-and-mirrors/vague wording...or weasel words as I like to call it.

DCC bad, very bad for the customer (but they an avoid it); DCC good, very good for the merchant/his charge processing bank. And remember, I'm assuming these have been DCC transactions since they have had around a 3-4% lower exchange rate and you didn't mention if your Visa credit card was issued by bank/company XYZ applying a foreign transaction fee on the card...a fee which can easily be in the 3% ballpark along with possibly another small flat fee all adding up to approx. 3 to 4%.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Pib

[Thighlander]

It is a visa credit cars, with no foreign transaction fee. WHile it did take a couple of days to settle both, the Dollar amount that was on the slip at the dentist was the same amount that showed on my bill. So it seems like the DCC is calculated in real time, as opposed to the settlement date.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes... As an American, anytime in Thailand that you get a credit or debit card slip for a purchase and it's showing a U.S. $ amount in addition to a Thai baht amount... you can know you're getting screwed, Dynamic Currency Conversion style.

You are not required to accept that kind of transaction and have the right to be charged in baht, at least under the terms of banking/card rules. But, sometimes, getting the merchant to cancel and re-ring the transaction in regular Thai baht can be a time-consuming and difficult ordeal. And often, the cashiers, who may not know any better, will try to persuade you (wrongly) that they really are charging you in Thai baht and/or that the price is the same.

In fact, any time you see the charge slip with a U.S. $ price on it, you can assume you're getting charged about 4% more than what you'd otherwise be paying if the charge was rung up in regular Thai baht. That's the price you would pay for the "convenience" of seeing a familiar U.S. $ notation on your charge slip, and getting a lower exchange rate set specially by the handling Thai bank.

Edited July 14, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

It is a visa credit cars, with no foreign transaction fee.  WHile it did take a couple of days to settle both, the Dollar amount that was on the slip at the dentist was the same amount that showed on my bill.  So it seems like the DCC is calculated in real time, as opposed to the settlement date.

Yes, you are correct for a DCC transaction since Visa/Mastercard are not doing the currency exchange; instead it's being done locally. But it can still take few business days for the transaction to post. But if the credit card transaction is done in baht then you will need to wait until the transaction posts to determine the final Visa/MC exchange rate given. Just cut back on DCC transactions and you are in good shape with your current cards.

Sent from my tablet

[JimGant]

WHile it did take a couple of days to settle both, the Dollar amount that was on the slip at the dentist was the same amount that showed on my bill. So it seems like the DCC is calculated in real time, as opposed to the settlement date.

Yes, you instantly know what your cost will be in dollars. That's their selling point in promoting DCC -- that you'll instantly know what it's costing you in dollars -- just in case your boss requires you to file your expense report instantly. What a load of crap.

The only thing you can be assured of (unless the dollar collapses before final transaction accounting) is that you're paying more. Certainly you can wait a day or two to get the finalized cost on-line, knowing you're saving money. And surely your boss, if he likes to minimize costs, will ensure you don't accept any DCC wooden nickels.

Hospitals have been notorious in Thailand for using DCC -- hoping, I guess, you're too sick to figure it out. And I also saw a case where insurance only reimbursed using the interbank rate -- which makes sense, since they too are in the profit business, are certainly familiar with DCC, and thus will not willingly pay this extra DCC cost. (Anybody reading this have Tricare -- and charged under DCC? Was your reimbursement in line with what you paid? Or less than you had figured?)

[Pib]

Hospitals have been notorious in Thailand for using DCC -- hoping, I guess, you're too sick to figure it out. And I also saw a case where insurance only reimbursed using the interbank rate -- which makes sense, since they too are in the profit business, are certainly familiar with DCC, and thus will not willingly pay this extra DCC cost. (Anybody reading this have Tricare -- and charged under DCC? Was your reimbursement in line with what you paid? Or less than you had figured?)

While the credit/debit card receipt would reflect a DCC (in USD and THB) transaction, the detailed hospital bill would most likely only reflect the charges in THB. When Tricare processes a claim they enter the "individual charges (medical procedures) from the hospital bill"...a bill that could many, many line items long each with an individual charge, which Tricare can either allow or disallow individually. Sometimes they may combine very similar charges on a bill into one entry for reimbursement processing (if allowed charges) while also combing the charge amounts...but the charge amounts would have been in THB. But it's always the Tricare processor looking at the bills/receipts provided in the Tricare claim for them to determine the individual charges and punch them into their claim processing system/data base; it's not just some grand total on the bottom of the hospital bill or card receipt.

So, say you got a hospital bill handed to you with 10 individual charges on it adding up to Bt3,000...all charges are in THB. You use you card to pay and you pay in THB (no DCC)...you now have a receipt reflecting Bt3000. And lets say the exchange rate Tricare is using on the date of the medical services is 30 baht/USD....you get reimbursed $100. But if you paid using DCC the receipt would say approx. $104 since the exchange rate given will probably be around 4% lower, thereby resulting in a higher dollar charge. But when the Tricare processor looks at that card receipt just to help verify you have indeed already paid the claim, he's just using that as some verification you did pay the Bt3000 medical bill vs still not having paid the bill and now filing for reimbursement (unless maybe have a waiver to initially pay a lesser amount than in full). But the Tricare claim processor is "not" using that card receipt as to determine which individual charges/procedures are allowed/disallowed/reimbursed; it's the charges reflected on the detailed bill that is being used instead. The detailed hospital bill is what Tricare uses to process the charges; not a card receipt with just a grand total on it (an inflated grand total due to the lower DCC exchange rate), which may or may not match the grand total on the bill or could have included other charges not specifically related to your hospital/doctor visit.

It may not match the grand total because you may have paid for some one else's medical charges at the same time (I.e., two individual bills paid for via one charge). I've done that once when the wife and I went in on the same day to get our annual checkups, two individual bills at different total values were issued, but processed on one card payment before I knew what they were doing. I could have told them to cancel that and rerun under two charges but I just let it slide that time for some reason. I included the card receipt on both our individual Tricare claims with a handwritten note talking about the card receipt also including my wife charges...and on the wife's claim I made the note about it including my charges. For later bills payments I never let that happen again...always individual card payments.

Anyway, Tricare still processed both claims with that card receipt that didn't even come close to the actual total charges on each bill. Plus, just before paying for the bill with your card you could have bought something from the hospital which was not included on the hospital bill (maybe a separate receipt or no receipt at all), which would have made the card receipt higher than the charges on the detailed bill. Yea, the card receipt is just to give an "indication" the bill was indeed paid before submitting the claim since the receipt would reflect a transaction date matching or coming real close to the bill date, name of the hospital on the receipt (vs it being a receipt from Big C on the same day when buying a TV costing Bt3,000, etc).

Plus on Tricare web sites it basically says "If the claim is not submit in USD, an exchange rate will be used." This implies to me if the claim is submit in USDs---which would mean the detailed bill individual charges would need to reflect USD not just the card receipt--then they will process individual charges in straight USDs since no foreign currency is reflected to use an exchange rate against. So, if you can get your hospital/doctor to entirely prepare the bill in USDs....each individual charge being in USDs using whatever DCC rate they want to use....then I'm fully expect Tricare would reimburse since all the charges are in USD and not a foreign currency requiring Tricare to use their exchange rate (which is really just an exchange rate from a competitive source).

Just as added FYI, I've found the exchange rate given come real close to the daily Bangkok Bank USD 1-2 Bank Note (Cash) Buying Rate, which as you know would be the lowest exchange rate compared to Sight Bill Buying Rate, TT Buying Rate, etc. But that it is a good thing because it results in a higher USD reimbursement for you. Example: you have a total 1,000 baht medical bill...say consisting on one individual medial charge for 1,000 baht. Say the bill was for 12 Sep 12, the exchange rate used by Tricare on that date was 0.0336000 or an inverse value of 29.76 (this is right off a 12 Sep 12 Tricare claim benefit I have in front of me) ....the Bangkok Bank USD 1-2 Note Buying Rate for 12 Sep was 29.88 while their TT Buying Rate was 30.91 (or 0.0323519). 1000 baht times 0.0336 = $33.60 where 1,000 baht times 0.0323519 = $32.35. This is a good thing for the claimant because it results in higher USD reimbursement assuming you paid in cash although your bill payment may have been via credit/debit card effectively giving you a higher exchange rate (smaller USD charge hitting/coming from your bank account).

I know, seems unreal the U.S. Govt is actually paying a benefit in a way which costs the govt a little more money, if the govt always wanted a claimant to pay using a method that results in the lowest charge to the govt. But I expect many, many folks filing overseas Tricare claims do pay in cash/check vs using a non foreign transaction fee debit/credit card and they have bitched about it in the past to Tricare, their elected officials, etc., and the Tricare pays using an exchange rate which slightly benefits the claimant vs the govt. Or they do pay with a card but it has a foreign transaction fee resulting in a exchange rate pretty close to a note/cash exchange rate, so they are basically getting reimbursed for that fee also. But if the card transaction had been processed via DCC at a lower rate and also still may have a foreign transaction fee applied by the card issuing bank simply because it was a "foreign transaction" regardless of any currency conversion did by the bank or not--this end up costing the person more because of using DCC.

I think paying a hospital bill via DCC transaction just ends up costing the claimant more since Tricare, and I bet many medical insurance companies, process the individual line items & charges on a bill to determine what is allowed/disallowed and the exchange rate applied against those "individual" items/charges vs a receipt with a grand total DCC charge.

[Pib]

It is a visa credit cars, with no foreign transaction fee. WHile it did take a couple of days to settle both, the Dollar amount that was on the slip at the dentist was the same amount that showed on my bill. So it seems like the DCC is calculated in real time, as opposed to the settlement date.

Yes, you are correct for a DCC transaction since Visa/Mastercard are not doing the currency exchange; instead it's being done locally. But it can still take few business days for the transaction to post. But if the credit card transaction is done in baht then you will need to wait until the transaction posts to determine the final Visa/MC exchange rate given. Just cut back on DCC transactions and you are in good shape with your current cards.

Sent from my tablet

Just as a note to those you use cards "with" foreign transaction fees even with a DCC transaction (i.e., paid in USD) there is still a good chance you will get hit with a foreign transaction fee...not because the card issuing bank was involved in during the currency exchange--because they were not---but simply because it was a "foreign" transaction. So, you effectively get hit with a lower exchange rate due to the DCC, say approx. 4%, and then quite possibly get hit with another few percent, say 3%, in a foreign transaction fee from the card issuing bank...OUCH!!!!...7% higher USD charge to your account in this example

Below quote from the Bank of America website sums it up pretty good regarding foreign transaction fees...it pretty much says BoA is still going to apply their foreign transaction fee even if the foreign transaction is processed in USD:

The exact fee

It's difficult to publish the exact fee because there are various factors involved. International transaction fees[/url] are calculated as a percentage of the total transaction amount, which takes into account the amount of the transaction plus the currency conversion rate in effect on the processing date. We recommend that you call the number on the back of your business card to discuss these issues before you travel or before you make an online or phone purchase from a merchant in another country.

*You should also be aware that even if a transaction is in U.S. dollars, this fee applies if the transaction is made or processed outside the U.S.

Yeap, DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the merchant/local processing bank and home country card issuing bank.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Another good example of this would be using your U.S. ATM card while traveling in Cambodia, where the ATMs typically dispense currency in regular U.S. $.

Even though there's no currency exchange occurring there for an American bank card, the American bank would still consider it a foreign transaction (because it occurred outside the U.S.) and would still charge a FCF, if they assessed one.

Edited July 15, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chubby]

..do you mean you had ING before it was bought by capital one ? I am going to want to use my new Cap 360 card at Aeon, before they issued this card, I had the Orange Card from ING

..seems this thread needs to be edited, if it is up to 15 pages, maybe you could write a summary

 

I have capital one checking accounts but I had them around 2-3 years before they bought ING and everything was switched over to 360. My atm card is mastercard and I tried it about 2 different times in Aeons atms and even one time a csr at Aeon came out and tried to help me and even called their head office to see what the problem was and eventually said that their atms could not read the card.

I have just finished rereading all 15 pages of the post again and taken notes so I will followup on all the leads that everyone has talked about and see how it goes. I have fidelity accounts already and hopefully they still work because I have never used them and I will see if I get charged the currency conversion fee and will see how they refund atm fees. I will post the details later and hopefully you guys can help me see if they charged the ccf or not.

thanks for all the info and help!

 

[55Jay]

Got DCC'd in Korat City last weekend, first in a long time. Advertised as one of the nicest restaraunts in town, DCC the last thing on my mind.

After 5 minutes of Thai staff saying impossible to cancel, Euro expat owner came out, already irritated. He started out in a stern voice, "Listen here, this is how it works.....", or something along those lines, then a friendly approach selling me on DCC. After another minute, finally and quite easily cancelled and re-ran in Baht. His parting words were he was glad I said something instead of leaving feeling they had done me wrong.

On around 3,000 Baht, the diff on CAP1 vs. DCC was about $3 or $4. Not the end of the world but over a month's billing cycle, can add up.

[vagabond48]

Yes... As an American, anytime in Thailand that you get a credit or debit card slip for a purchase and it's showing a U.S. $ amount in addition to a Thai baht amount... you can know you're getting screwed, Dynamic Currency Conversion style.

You are not required to accept that kind of transaction and have the right to be charged in baht, at least under the terms of banking/card rules. But, sometimes, getting the merchant to cancel and re-ring the transaction in regular Thai baht can be a time-consuming and difficult ordeal. And often, the cashiers, who may not know any better, will try to persuade you (wrongly) that they really are charging you in Thai baht and/or that the price is the same.

In fact, any time you see the charge slip with a U.S. $ price on it, you can assume you're getting charged about 4% more than what you'd otherwise be paying if the charge was rung up in regular Thai baht. That's the price you would pay for the "convenience" of seeing a familiar U.S. $ notation on your charge slip, and getting a lower exchange rate set specially by the handling Thai bank.

I am glad you brought this distinction up. In the past, I have gotten CC receipts that had the DCC acceptance paragraph which I quickly rejected. I also have gotten receipts without the paragraph but included a US exchange rate which was of course much lower. I normally have rejected even this type of charge. Recently, my wife bought a pair of shoes and the CC receipt had the US exchange currency without the acceptance paragraph. The amount was low enough and they were having a hard time reversing the charge so I took a chance and accepted it. When I returned home and checked the pending amount on the BOA website, the foreign exchange rate was not reduced by a 3 to 4% DCC factor so I wonder if the DCC acceptance agreement must be printed and signed on the receipt for it to be processed?

Note: the final amount posted a few days later was also without the DCC lower exchange rate.

Edited July 15, 2013 by vagabond48

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

deleted

Edited July 15, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's one of the challenges of forums like this -- either keeping information one a general subject all together in a single thread, which gets long over time, or dividing everything up into countless separate threads over time, which makes it difficult to find anything. I don't know a better answer...

Except to say, ask a question here re U.S. banking issues and you're likely to get an answer. And Capital One is by no means the only subject discussed here.

From an overview perspective in terms of Capital One and AEON:

--My Cap One straight ATM card doesn't work in AEON ATMs.

--Other members with original Cap One debit cards have reported problems using AEON ATMs...

--But with the new Cap One 360 MC debit cards, we've now had one member report he was able to use it in an AEON ATM without any problem.

Other U.S. VISA or MC logo debit cards with no foreign currency fee and online account opening include:

--Charles Schwab, which also refunds other banks' ATM fees.

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

--State Farm Bank

http://www.statefarm.com/bank/checking/standard-checking.asp

--Fidelity brokerage

https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/atm-debit-card

Reimburses other banks' ATM fees and claims to charge a 1% foreign currency fee, but members here say they don't charge that fee.

--Service Credit Union, which is available to anyone who has a family member who's either current or former military in any capacity. Foreign currency fee of 1% refunded and other banks' ATM fees refunded for qualifying checking accounts with direct deposit.

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/FreeAtms.asp?

Stanford Federal Credit Union located in CA, though it looks like they require a $500/mo direct deposit to not charge their own non-network ATM withdrawal fees. For those without other Stanford Federal Credit Union eligibility factors such as working at Stanford, you can open an account online and become eligible by joining the Museum of American Heritage (MOAH) or Friends of the Palo Alto Library (FOPAL).

• NO foreign currency exchange fee, which is an added bonus for travelers

Note: Stanford FCU does not charge currency exchange fees on Visa debit card transactions, but other financial institutions may charge a fee.

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards

--Then there are any number of smaller banks and credit unions that serve state or local markets that don't charge foreign currency fees, and some also refund other banks' ATM fees. But they only make accounts available to those with a U.S. address in their local service area. That's why it's hard to post a lot of info on those here, and even to necessarily know all those that don't charge any FCF.

Edited July 15, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Thighlander]

My ING USA card worked at Aeon as well. I did notice that when I used my HSBC USA ATM card at an HSBC ATM in Mexico, they tacked on a foreign use charge, which annoyed me, but that same Cap one 360 at the same HSBC Mexico ATM worked without the fee. There is still a buy/sell on the exchange rate.

Bank of America is notorious for junk fees. Chase is bad, too.....but it was just recently that they ceased the foreign transaction fee on my visa card. ING used to take 2%, and it showed up as a seperate line item on my statement, but that was still better than the way JPM or BoA did things.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I am glad you brought this distinction up. In the past, I have gotten CC receipts that had the DCC acceptance paragraph which I quickly rejected. I also have gotten receipts without the paragraph but included a US exchange rate which was of course much lower. I normally have rejected even this type of charge.

Recently, my wife bought a pair of shoes and the CC receipt had the US exchange currency without the acceptance paragraph. The amount was low enough and they were having a hard time reversing the charge so I took a chance and accepted it. When I returned home and checked the pending amount on the BOA website, the foreign exchange rate was not reduced by a 3 to 4% DCC factor so I wonder if the DCC acceptance agreement must be printed and signed on the receipt for it to be processed?

Note: the final amount posted a few days later was also without the DCC lower exchange rate.

Interesting question, Vagabond...

In my experience, every time I've received a DCC charge slip that I can recall, it's had that one paragraph/sentence small print language down at the bottom along the lines of... you're agreeing to accept this charge in your own currency, etc etc... and usually showing the actual Thai baht exchange rate, these days, 28+ baht to the dollar, instead of 30+, as I recall.

I can't recall ever receiving a DCC slip in Thailand that didn't have that "you agree" language at the bottom. But that's not to say there aren't those out there. It looks to me like it's the individual Thai bank that's handling the transaction for that particular retailer that would be setting the form of the charge slip. I seem to run into DCC slips processed by BKK Bank and Siam Commercial, most often. Can't recall seeing too many/any from the other Thai banks.

[Pib]

Got DCC'd in Korat City last weekend, first in a long time. Advertised as one of the nicest restaraunts in town, DCC the last thing on my mind.

After 5 minutes of Thai staff saying impossible to cancel, Euro expat owner came out, already irritated. He started out in a stern voice, "Listen here, this is how it works.....", or something along those lines, then a friendly approach selling me on DCC. After another minute, finally and quite easily cancelled and re-ran in Baht. His parting words were he was glad I said something instead of leaving feeling they had done me wrong.

On around 3,000 Baht, the diff on CAP1 vs. DCC was about $3 or $4. Not the end of the world but over a month's billing cycle, can add up.

And that expat owner is the person who has set his POS machine to default to DCC for foreign cards...he knows exactly what he is doing...he's collecting an extra 3-4% per bill paid via foreign card. I think it's rich he said he's glad you said something about the DCC...but he would be happier if you hadn't caught the DCC ripoff and he had collected an extra few percent.

[Pib]

Heads up for you folks who use USAA Bank Bill Pay (and probably other bank's bill pay also) to receive your ebills from "Capital One and Chase." Apparently CapOne and Chase have very recently stopped ebill service to "external" Bill Pay financial institutions like USAA Bank.. That is, USAA will no longer get ebills from CapOne or Chase nor would other banks/credit unions. This info based on a 20 minute phone call to USAA an hour ago.

Today, I got an alert direct from CapOne that my MasterCard monthly bill was within 10 days of the payment due which is 25 July. I think, What, I didn't receive the ebill at USAA Bill Pay...and I normally receive the ebill the first few days of every month...ebill has been showing up faithfully at USAA Bill Pay for almost two years now...this is the first month it's never showed up and I do have a balance/bill to pay.

And then I thought that the new CapOne Visa card I got about 3 months ago and immediately added it to USAA Bill Pay has never resulted in a ebill being received at USAA....I had to logon the CapOne web site to pay the bills. But since ebills can sometimes take a couple of billing cycles to setup I had been putting off asking USAA about why am I not getting ebills for my CapOne Visa card. So, I logged onto my CapOne credit card account and paid the MasterCard bill today with plans to call USAA to discuss the case of the missing ebills for my Capone MasterCard and Visa cards.

I called USAA and had a good conversation with knowledgeable folks, which also included the USAA contractor service that manages their ebill service. When the dust settled I found out that CapOne and Chase have recently stopped sending ebills to "external financial organizations"--I guess you must log onto your CapOne and Chase accounts to pay their ebills. Maybe CapOne and Chase don't like paying other financial institutions a small fee for ebill payments....who knows.

Anyway, if you use USAA Bill Pay to receive your ebill--and I expect any other bank/credit union Bill Pay--your ebills from CapOne and Chase may stop showing up...you'll need to log onto the CapOne and Chase websites to pay the bills.

[Pib]

..seems this thread needs to be edited, if it is up to 15 pages, maybe you could write a summary

Just as soon as you edit/summarize the thread, "Where is gold going in this market.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Anyway, if you use USAA Bill Pay to receive your ebill--and I expect any other bank/credit union Bill Pay--your ebills from CapOne and Chase may stop showing up...you'll need to log onto the CapOne and Chase websites to pay the bills.

fyi, for both my Cap One and Chase credit cards, in their online banking systems, you have the ability to set-up and receive emailed "bill due in 10 days" alerts direct from those two banks.

And I believe in both cases, you also have the ability to pay those credit card bills via their respective online banking setups, by having the funds debited from whatever external (non-Chase or non-Cap One) personal checking account(s) of yours that you designate and link.

To me, there's some advantage to paying the bills direct that way, because you're guaranteed that your payment will be credited on the same day you do the online transaction (assuming you meet the daily cutoff hour), and you don't have to worry about any potential third-party e-bill payment processing time delays.

Edited July 15, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

And I believe in both cases, you also have the ability to pay those credit card bills via their respective online banking setups, by having the funds debited from whatever external (non-Chase or non-Cap One) personal checking account(s) of yours that you designate and link.

The ebilling system has a few glitches.

I just got my Bank of America Travel Rewards card (the CapOne Quicksilver hasn't arrived yet). And as I do with all my credit cards, I wanted to set up an automatic payment in full. I remembered from years ago that I couldn't do this on-line with BofA, but had to mail in a form.

Yep, still can't do this on-line with their bill pay system -- which only allows you to set a minimum payment, or an exact amount. You can't set it up to pay in full automatically whatever your closing balance is. I imagine I'll be in the same situation with CapOne -- and will need to end run their bill pay system -- essentially returning to the days before on-line bill pay, and establishing a simple direct debit of amount due, when due (like we've done for years for electricity, water, etc)

Essentially, with payment in full, my credit cards are debit cards, but that earn more cash reward points than a debit card, have up to a 55 day "float," and has the protection of NOT getting your checking account cleaned out with a fraud.

Oh, Pib, thanks for the Tricare info. Haven't used it yet in Thailand myself. Interesting they give any payment FX gravy to the claimant, and not the taxpayer. Can't imagine that lasting much longer, what with Tricare in the gaze of all those (never in uniform) beltway bunglers.

[JimGant]

When the dust settled I found out that CapOne and Chase have recently stopped sending ebills to "external financial organizations"

Just got the CapOne Quicksilver card, so was able to go on-line to my account. There I found, under "Payments," the option to "autopay" your account. And, unlike BofA, you do have the option to pay "statement balance" (as well as minimum due, or a set amount). So, I guess I can set this up on-line to direct debit 'statement balance' on date due to my USAA checking account. No "bill pay" mechanism involved -- just a old fashioned direct debit.

[zeekgarcia]

Another question for Zeek I forgot to ask: Does the AEON ATM flat out reject the CapOne debit card....I mean you can't even get it to accept your PIN? Or does it accept the PIN, you can then enter the amount of money your want, you hit the Spit Out Money button, and then the AEON ATM gives a No Can Do response?

I can go through the whole process at aeon but when its time to give the money it basically says can not do.

my CO card is not a 360 card its a CO direct banking platinum mastercard if you click on the link in post 381 about the lady's CO experience my card looks just like that. And it has a mastercard logo on the front and on the back it has a holographic logo that says debit in the middle of it with mastercard wrote all around the word debit inside the holographic logo and besides the CO direct banking logo that's all the logos on the card. So no cirrus logos etc.

[watcharacters]

The poster two above poses an interesting question...

Re the BKKB New York branch, Longball is correct... It's NOT a retail branch that provides any retail banking services to individual customers... You couldn't open an account there, even if you were in New York.

But the broader question is, can you in any way open a Thai bank account while physically present in the U.S. I don't think so... But, since the OP resides in Los Angeles, there are I believe two Thai banks that do have offices in L.A., I think in the downtown area. Check the yellow pages under banking.

I remember talking to them some years back before I relocated, and it came to nothing. But I can't recall now whether I ever asked them the exact question being posed by the poster above...

Failing that approach, here's my backup suggestion. The Schwab account is great for using in Thailand, since it's bank debit card on the linked checking account has no foreign currency fee and refunds Thai banks' 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees on foreign cards (unless you use an AEON ATM instead that doesn't charge the 150 baht fee in the first place.)

You can use your Schwab ATM card upon arrival for your routine expenses, no problem. And then open a Thai bank account after your arrival.

Then, if you open a BKK Bank account, you can avoid the expenses of international wire transfers by using BKK Bank's New York branch to route the funds via U.S. domestic ACH initiated from online banking from your BofA or Schwab accounts to the BKKB New York branch and then onward to your BKKB Thailand account at a relatively low fee cost and good exchange rate.

Unfortunately, at present, BKKB is the only Thai bank that has a setup that allows Americans to send money to Thailand by starting with a domestic ACH done via online banking out of your U.S. account. The ACH out of your Schwab account would be free/no fee. As best as I recall, BofA charges a $3 or $5 fee to ACH funds out of their accounts.

The BKK Bank web page with info on doing the U.S. domestic ACH and the fees involved is located here:

http://www.bangkokba...from%20USA.aspx

Just to be clear, what enables BKK Bank to provide this transfer service is that their New York branch somehow has a 9-digit ABA routing number that can be linked to via any U.S. account online banking setup, the same as any regular U.S. bank account. So you'd just use the BKKB NY ABA number and the full account number of your Thai account in your U.S. online banking to set up the ACH link.

BTW, to the poster above, if you call and talk with either of the other Thai banks with offices in L.A. and they have any different or better info to offer, please do post it here...

I think they're going to tell you a) you can't open a Thai account with them from the U.S. and b] the only means they have to send funds from the U.S. to Thailand is via traditional wire transfers.... But I'd be happy to be proven wrong...

The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.

In the US (I am a citizen) it is possible to open accounts online because banks can check your ID, your credit record, if you have recently moved etc and can provide valid electronic authentication. We do not have this ability currently, particularly with foreign citizens and residents.

Our New York Branch actually does have deposit accounts (if you go to our office you will see a teller window at the front next to the office entrance door) but we do not offer these to individuals in normal circumstances and there is a big sign informing you that these are NOT FDIC INSURED. As John says, you can transfer funds between your account in the USA with your local bank and your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand totally without the need to open an account with our New York branch.

.

Are you speaking as a bank employee or representative?

[zeekgarcia]

Jim and Pib... thanks for watching my back... and helping the math challenged among us.... It is a good reminder though regarding using the VISA website to calculate their rate... as it doesn't directly provide the rate (XX.XX THB per $1) we're looking for... We have to do the inverse calculation, which I failed to do...

So just to be clear on the correct methodology for looking at U.S issued VISA bankcards... we're going to the VISA US exchange rates site,

Once there, in the fill-in form, we're choosing "My Card is in US $" and "My Transaction was in Thai Baht." Choosing the date of the transaction and entering in the card-issuing bank fee %, if any. Getting results of "1 Thai Baht = 0.03XXXX United States Dollar" type. Then using a calculator to get the inverse number by entering the digit "1" and then dividing that by the 0.03XXXX number to get the rate for XX.XX baht per $1.

Ok everyone I used my fidelity visa atm card at bangkok bank and I am not coming up with the exchange rate on the visa us exchange rate site following the above instructions from post 350.

Fidelity website says my atm withdraw was on July 15 for $37.12 total. I withdrew 1k thb + 150 thb fee = 1,150 thb

Visa US says 1 Thai Baht = 0.032265 USD

1 / 0.032265 = 30.993336 < Would this be the VISA USD to THB exchange rate according to the instructions above?

Now when I take the 1,150 THB * 0.032265 = $37.10475 USD < This is .02 US cent less than the $37.12 that was take from my fidelity account. << So does this mean that I was not given the visa exchange rate or that Fidelity is charging a fee?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

would this calculation be correct if I took the total Baht 1,150 / total USD from my account $37.12 = exchange rate 30.980603 ?????

Because $37.12 * 30.980603 = 1,150 THB

Because when I take the 150 THB atm fee / 30.980603 = $4.84 which is exactly what Fidelity refunded back into my account as the atm fee.

Thanks for your help

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

TV member Ianguygil has previously indicated here on ThaiVisa that he works for Bangkok Bank, but that he posts here on his own to asist other members, not officially representing the bank. I believe that's what he'd say.

The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.

In the US (I am a citizen) it is possible to open accounts online because banks can check your ID, your credit record, if you have recently moved etc and can provide valid electronic authentication. We do not have this ability currently, particularly with foreign citizens and residents.

Our New York Branch actually does have deposit accounts (if you go to our office you will see a teller window at the front next to the office entrance door) but we do not offer these to individuals in normal circumstances and there is a big sign informing you that these are NOT FDIC INSURED. As John says, you can transfer funds between your account in the USA with your local bank and your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand totally without the need to open an account with our New York branch.

.

Are you speaking as a bank employee or representative?

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When the dust settled I found out that CapOne and Chase have recently stopped sending ebills to "external financial organizations"

Just got the CapOne Quicksilver card, so was able to go on-line to my account. There I found, under "Payments," the option to "autopay" your account. And, unlike BofA, you do have the option to pay "statement balance" (as well as minimum due, or a set amount). So, I guess I can set this up on-line to direct debit 'statement balance' on date due to my USAA checking account. No "bill pay" mechanism involved -- just a old fashioned direct debit.

Jim, I see you've solved your Cap One issue....

As for Chase, the other card issuer Pib mentioned above, I do see that they have a "set-up automatic payment" link on the homepage of their online banking menu. And when I follow it, it gives me the choice to designate or add an external checking account, and then to choose either minimum payment due or full amount due.

In the automatic payment setup, you don't have the ability to choose the payment date. The website indicates: We'll make payments to this credit card account on the payment due date, even if it falls on a weekend or holiday. There's no need to make a separate payment.First payment due:

Payments will automatically be made on your payment due date."

However, separately, on the manual/self selected online payment method for Chase Credit cards, the account holder can choose what external account to debit among any you've linked, choose the payment date either immediately or in the future, and choose from the following amount options:

--statement balance

--current balance

--minimum due

--other amount

For Chase credit cards, the website also says: Cutoff for same-day online payment:8:00 PM ET

And, as I mentioned previously re Pib's comment, both Cap One and Chase allow you to set up automatic 10 day in advance payment due reminders that are sent to your account email address.

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK