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My Thai Gf Is Going To Marry Soon But I Am Not The Bridegroom


AngelofDeath

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It all depends on whether you view tongue-play as something that comes naturally or as a sociological norm from the West that has to be promulgated, understood and / or aped in order to spread to other cultures.

That's the fork in the road. If you've already gone up a fair way and you're not going to come back down to where the two paths meet then you may as well agree to disagree.

Edited to add : Sex was invented in the 60's. Fact. There is much debate among experts regarding the significance of the colour blue in the invention of sex, and whether it originated in Denmark or Germany but no one has been able to say with certitude.

Edited by Trembly
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There must be loads of farang who think that Thai people only have sex in the missionary position with the lights out after a heated bout of furious and frantic sniff-kissing, or something.

biggrin.gif

I don't know about loads but some apparently do -- it's ridiculous, isn't it?

(This is a relatively new phenomena for the most part: I remember back in the day when it was somewhat unusual to have a "good" Thai girl as a GF, your average Farang -- know he didn't have a chance as he wasn't going to go through the hoops necessary -- either ignored their existence pretended there weren't any Thai girls that weren't for sale and available for sex.

Then as society changed providing far more opportunity to have a relationship with "good" Thai girls and simultaneously more Farangs came who had the interest and the skills -- a new thing developed where some Farangs saw it as a sign of greater prestige/insider status/moral rectitude all sorts of stuff to have relationships with non-prostitutes (the higher socio-economic status the better).

I can understand this as I went through that phase myself, to a degree, when through my work and language skills I had the opportunity to go upmarket . But the guys who pompously go on their superior knowledge of proper Thai girls and ...well...)

Nobody is suggesting it's either sniff kissing or ramming her tongue down your throat. Such a polar comparison is just stupid.

French kissing is a relatively new phenomena in Thai culture. That's not to say that Thais don't kiss on the mouth or that a Thai girl can't get very passionate kissing on the mouth. But French kissing is a very specific type of kissing that isn't really popular in Thai society yet. You won't see much or any of it happening on Thai drama programs or in Thai movies which is a decent barometer for what is mainstream and what isn't. And if she's not learning it in the Thai media and her parents are part of the older culture that don't do it . . . where do you think she's learning it?

Open mouth kissing is not French kissing. Some minor incidental contact between tongues is not French kissing. French kissing is an open mouth kiss with an intermingling of tongues. To be really enjoyable it should be natural and passionate.

If you find yourself with a Thai girl who immediately goes for ramming her tongue down your throat I'm guessing she's been around the block a few times or she's mimicking what she sees on farang television or movies. Most of the girls I have gone out with that do French kiss come from the later camp. And they are horrible at it which in many ways ruins the mood for me. Nothing like having her hit your gag reflex or cut off your ability to breath to get ya hot, right?

And again, if they do know how to French kiss properly . . . where did they learn it? I know it wasn't necessarily ingrained in us farangs as children (technically, it was first mentioned in literature in the early 1900's). I had more than a few awkward makeout sessions as a teenager as I'm sure we all have. So if she's nailing it on your first makeout session you gotta ask :-)

So what you end up with is:

1. Girls who don't French kiss at all

2. Girls who do French kiss but are fairly horrible at it.

3. Girls who have had enough practice to be good at it.

4. Girls who it comes to like swimming comes to a fish.

So, if you want to lay percentages on that . . . I'll give #1 60%, #2 30%, #3 9%, and #4 1%.

In terms of your other comments . . . I'm not sure what you're thinking. Did us farang really have to "develop" in order to understand that it was more prestigious to have a gf or wife who was from a good family than to marry a prostitute? Really? Did you go through that phase?

First of all, methinks you are far more analytical about the whole kissing thing than I want to get into. Thanks anyway. But I'll reply to some of it and I hope you'll forgive what is likely to be a disjointed and perhaps clumsy effort but it's too late at night for me to plan this out (OK, in truth I never plan my posts and prefer to just go from the top of my head)...

Nobody is suggesting it's either sniff kissing or ramming her tongue down your throat. Such a polar comparison is just stupid.

Indeed. No one - including me is suggesting it - nor did I state that anyone was.

You won't see much or any of it happening on Thai drama programs or in Thai movies which is a decent barometer for what is mainstream and what isn't.

That's just a ridiculous point and surely you seem knowledgeable enough to know so; I agree that popular culture -- in particular Thai soap operas -- can be a decent barometer for what is mainstream and what isn't. I've been saying so for over 20 years. But this is an obvious exception (not the only one). It's only very recently that you see stars actually making any contact with their mouths at all, and that is rare. More typical is the simulated kiss with heads or bodies in a way that obscures what's happening or even just some sort of face to shoulder/neck activity...or now, very recently mouth to mouth and what looks like real kiising to a degree. That's NOT because Thais don';t do it much but because it's wasn't done ON SCREEN.

Not only does Thai TV self-censor but the actors themselves -- though this is less and less true -- are very aware of and concerned with he fact that a LOT of their viewers don't separate what they watch from reality and will label them as having been behaving inappropriately in public or even genuinely in lust etc (just as they are known to worry about and suffer from negative reactions when playing an unsympathetic character -- though that is changing and the anti-hero female protagonist has emerged)

By the way, when I grew up, my parents didn't teach me to French kiss. It wasn't shown on TV. Somehow we knew about it and did it and as we did it more, got better at it without being taught or watching. (Plus I'll drop a potentially contentious claim -- porn is pretty widely viewed here even by so called good girls). But the whole issue of skills and so forth -- I never mentioned that at all. I never claimed that Thai girls were all expert French kissers from the very time or anything even remotely suggesting that it wasn't a skill that had to be learned.

Did us farang really have to "develop" in order to understand that it was more prestigious to have a gf or wife who was from a good family than to marry a prostitute? Really? Did you go through that phase?

Us Farang?

I'm talking about the changes I've seen in the kinds of behavior and attitudes of many Farangs over a period of 29 years. I'm not speaking about specific Farangs or all Farangs or even (quite likely) many of the Farangs here now -- as its probably a minority that have been here for 25+ years.

It is, I believe, largely as I described. Typically, when for many Farangs it was almost the only option to meet a working girl (25+ years ago) -- as it still is for some Farangs without the requisite attributes or interests -- and when the majority of Farangs who came were of the Sexpat/sex tourist persuasion if not entirely that way (prior to the massive development of the 80s and the vast increase of expats of all ages and inclinations), a Farang would seek "prestige" in how hot his girl was or how many he had.

To a degree, I went through that phase too when I was about 21; I convinced myself that to get with a "good girl" was more prestigious and certainly more of an achievement (in those days, lots of Farangs weren't able to do it). I'm talking about an era before there were "Pubs" in Bangkok. Where nightlife was almost entirely confined to Go Go bars (or Dianas at the Dusit and Bubbles at the Oriental). When good girls didn't go to bars and bars were where men went to drink and/or meet bar girls. When there wasn't much opportunity for the average Farang to meet women outside of the nightlife as there was FAR more stigma attached and far fewer venues. When most Farangs had neither the language skills nor the cultural awareness to meet or "court" any but the relatively rare somewhat westernized Thai woman from a "good family" who had studied abroad and/or worked with foreigners and for whom the social opprobrium wasn't sufficient disincentive to a relationship.

And I'm talking about an era when casual, pre-marital sex was much less openly accepted (not that it is completely now but it is MUCH more than before, when it happened but everyone pretended it didn't.)

When you say, "in order to understand that it was more prestigious to have a gf or wife who was from a good family than to marry a prostitute" as if that's a given, I have to take issue as I don't necessarily agree. (Though I wasn't talking about marriage per se -- you threw that in). I now feel that a person she be proud if they have a good woman and a good relationship, period. While I think the odds are definitely very slim (or at least slimmer) that one will find that at a bar, I don't think that to be with someone who is from a "good family" is inherently something to be more proud of. I know some women from good families who I'd NOT be proud of or think it "prestigious" to be with and my pride in my own fine woman of 19 years is not based on the fact that she wasn't a bar girl.

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Wow.

I just realized you are the same guy who said:

Thai girls don't french kiss.

And then:

If you're talking about some faux-so girl who watches way too much Hollywood she might be into French kissing because it's the hip thing to do.

And then:

...most people would agree that Thais really aren't into the whole French kissing thing. You might find a girl here and there.

And even:

It's obviously not something that comes natural to them. They see it in the movies and try to replicate it for us.

Wow.

Edited by SteeleJoe
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It all depends on whether you view tongue-play as something that comes naturally or as a sociological norm from the West that has to be promulgated, understood and / or aped in order to spread to other cultures.

That's the fork in the road. If you've already gone up a fair way and you're not going to come back down to where the two paths meet then you may as well agree to disagree.

Da_n, I could have saved myself some trouble if I'd read that first; probably just should have quoted that , said "spot on" and left it at that.

Spot on (and very well said).

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One time, a thai woman added me on facebook and i accepted even though i didn't know her. As soon as i accepted her, she started messaging me asking me about myself and started to tell me about her. She claimed she was from issan but lived in Pattaya alone (red flag for me). I had no intention of anything other than talking. She told me she was a Korean translator, so I looked at her pictures that she had on her profile and decided she was a bar girl. I immediately told her i had a gf when i saw that and she took me off her friends list. Not a big deal, but amazing how desperate some people are.

Edited by Warhammer820
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wow, you sure she wasnt a bar girl?

You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl :lol: , plus maybe it is her real brother, maybe she loves the family that plays together, stays together. (Incest}

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Something that came to mind last night.

She is marrying this 'brother' who we obviously know isn't and is the boyfriend which he must have been for sometime for them to get married, all the time you were together.

If you knew about him he must have known about you. If he knew about you in Thailand he probably would have got 6 mates round to give you a kicking, but didn't.

This strikes me as odd ? EIther they aren't getting married and this is just a story to break up gently with you or they were planning to play you from the start with the old stupid belief that all Farangs are all rich.

Or has my mind gone all Miss Marple ? :blink:

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Wow.

I just realized you are the same guy who said:

No real incongruency if you take into consideration that there are different types of girls. My original comment was about the type of girl that the OP was describing. A gal who won't have sex before marriage. I doubt you'll find many French kissers in that bunch.

But are there *some* Thai girls who are into French kissing? Yes. Is it confined to certain types of Thai girls (like those trying to seem international and worldly) and/or a girl who has a farang boyfriend and tries it out because she thinks that's what he is into? For the most part, that's my argument.

If there's any confusion I think it's in the fact that I made a blanket statement about Thai girls based on the description of the kind of girl the OP was dating. I wasn't buying his story about getting himself checked out for STD's if he hadn't had sex with her and his response that he was French kissing and he didn't remember if he had open sores in his mouth (or was he unsure about her mouth? I forget) just seems odd.

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1. Did the OP say that the other guy knew about him?

2. I am not sure that the other guy would have fought him since he was innocent.

Something that came to mind last night.

She is marrying this 'brother' who we obviously know isn't and is the boyfriend which he must have been for sometime for them to get married, all the time you were together.

If you knew about him he must have known about you. If he knew about you in Thailand he probably would have got 6 mates round to give you a kicking, but didn't.

This strikes me as odd ? EIther they aren't getting married and this is just a story to break up gently with you or they were planning to play you from the start with the old stupid belief that all Farangs are all rich.

Or has my mind gone all Miss Marple ? :blink:

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Wow.

I just realized you are the same guy who said:

No real incongruency if you take into consideration that there are different types of girls. My original comment was about the type of girl that the OP was describing. A gal who won't have sex before marriage. I doubt you'll find many French kissers in that bunch.

But are there *some* Thai girls who are into French kissing? Yes. Is it confined to certain types of Thai girls (like those trying to seem international and worldly) and/or a girl who has a farang boyfriend and tries it out because she thinks that's what he is into? For the most part, that's my argument.

If there's any confusion I think it's in the fact that I made a blanket statement about Thai girls based on the description of the kind of girl the OP was dating. I wasn't buying his story about getting himself checked out for STD's if he hadn't had sex with her and his response that he was French kissing and he didn't remember if he had open sores in his mouth (or was he unsure about her mouth? I forget) just seems odd.

I have only time (and sufficient interest) to point out that my astonishment -- and my post -- wasn't about any supposed incongruousness there (though obviously you contradicted yourself). It was about the very nature of those specific comments.

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Hookers maybe don't like it but Uni girls want to dig your tonsils out. Where do you guys find your women?

Uni girls who've been round the block more than a few times, yes.. A normal uni bird who's never been within arm's reach of a white guy before certainly will not try to dig your tonsils out, but would probably try it if you'd been dating for a few months.

"Normal uni bird" . . . rolleyes.gif

There must be loads of farang who think that Thai people only have sex in the missionary position with the lights out after a heated bout of furious and frantic sniff-kissing, or something.

Conversely, There must be loads that convince themselves that these 'Uni girls' they meet and end up having wild sex with after a matter of hours, days or even weeks are actually a fair cross section of the better part of Thai Society. :whistling:

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Hookers maybe don't like it but Uni girls want to dig your tonsils out. Where do you guys find your women?

Uni girls who've been round the block more than a few times, yes.. A normal uni bird who's never been within arm's reach of a white guy before certainly will not try to dig your tonsils out, but would probably try it if you'd been dating for a few months.

"Normal uni bird" . . . rolleyes.gif

There must be loads of farang who think that Thai people only have sex in the missionary position with the lights out after a heated bout of furious and frantic sniff-kissing, or something.

Conversely, There must be loads that convince themselves that these 'Uni girls' they meet and end up having wild sex with after a matter of hours, days or even weeks are actually a fair cross section of the better part of Thai Society. :whistling:

Steady on John, I thought we were just talking about "normal uni girls" . . .

. . . OK I'll play :

  1. Have you been to uni in Thailand?
  2. How many Thai people in uni or who have recently graduated do you know?
  3. In what capacity do you know them?
  4. Do you communicate with them in Thai or English?
  5. Do you hang out and / or party with them?
  6. Can you elaborate on the key behavioural characteristics which form your schema of yes-tongue-play and no-tongue-play girls?

Edited by Trembly
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One time, a thai woman added me on facebook and i accepted even though i didn't know her. As soon as i accepted her, she started messaging me asking me about myself and started to tell me about her. She claimed she was from issan but lived in Pattaya alone (red flag for me). I had no intention of anything other than talking. She told me she was a Korean translator, so I looked at her pictures that she had on her profile and decided she was a bar girl. I immediately told her i had a gf when i saw that and she took me off her friends list. Not a big deal, but amazing how desperate some people are.

True, amazing how desperate some are.

;)

She was fishing/hunting.

And you accepted a stranger to be your friend. You do that with all the men asking to be addeed as well, or only women?

:P

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Don't worry your not the only one there are plenty of guys who have it worse then you. Buying houses and then getting kicked out by the gardener who is in fact the husband of the wife.

THere are plenty of nice Thai girls so dont worry.

true there are plenty of nice girls that can easily turn not so nice when things get testy.

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To robblok : I know there must be plently of nice Thai girls around. I consider myself a very choosy person when it comes to looking for a partner and this is why I chose her. She is a very nice girl. Sometimes she treats me and I treat her. In the end, it turns out this little "angel" of mine is a devil in disguise.

To: richard_smith237: Your question is not offensive. I didn't give her any allowance at all but I did lent her 2000 bahts. Yes, she hasn't returned me the money and I don't have any plan to get it back. By the way, I have known her for half a year. Regarding her friend, I don't think she is trying to ruin our relationship as she has been very supportive. I know I have to move on but I really hate the fact that I have been duped. I will definitely move on but It's gonna take a little bit of time.

So during that time did she pay for all the food you two ate? What else did you two do besides banging and eating? Did she work, pay rent? All that you threw to her was she good in bed? Did she swallow?

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Don't worry your not the only one there are plenty of guys who have it worse then you. Buying houses and then getting kicked out by the gardener who is in fact the husband of the wife.

THere are plenty of nice Thai girls so dont worry.

true there are plenty of nice girls that can easily turn not so nice when things get testy.

A wise man once said that there are often far more facets to a person than many care to acknowledge.

Sometimes its your Nice-Good-Normal-Girl-O-Meter that needs to be recalibrated and checked. However, if you actually bought a NGNG-O-Meter for use in the jungle then you're probably screwed because they're really just toys that are susceptible to all sorts of interference.

Edited by Trembly
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Uni girls who've been round the block more than a few times, yes.. A normal uni bird who's never been within arm's reach of a white guy before certainly will not try to dig your tonsils out, but would probably try it if you'd been dating for a few months.

"Normal uni bird" . . . rolleyes.gif

There must be loads of farang who think that Thai people only have sex in the missionary position with the lights out after a heated bout of furious and frantic sniff-kissing, or something.

Conversely, There must be loads that convince themselves that these 'Uni girls' they meet and end up having wild sex with after a matter of hours, days or even weeks are actually a fair cross section of the better part of Thai Society. :whistling:

Steady on John, I thought we were just talking about "normal uni girls" . . .

. . . OK I'll play :

  1. Have you been to uni in Thailand?
  2. How many Thai people in uni or who have recently graduated do you know?
  3. In what capacity do you know them?
  4. Do you communicate with them in Thai or English?
  5. Do you hang out and / or party with them?
  6. Can you elaborate on the key behavioural characteristics which form your schema of yes-tongue-play and no-tongue-play girls?

Good questions. Can't wait for the answer.

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No real incongruency if you take into consideration that there are different types of girls. My original comment was about the type of girl that the OP was describing. A gal who won't have sex before marriage. I doubt you'll find many French kissers in that bunch.

To try classify girls into 'types' tells more about you than about them.

I think almost every girl pretend to be virgin, no sex until marry, if think man stupid enough.

You meet girl, short time after you french kiss girl, short time after you have sex. All in same evening.

If at any time girl say 'NO', you stop and show her door. Usually girl say 'YES' before out door.

Learn to play game better.

Once I break my own rule, but husband with girl at time, take two weeks get her alone, when alone girl say 'YES'

Edited by OlafStapleton
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Uni girls who've been round the block more than a few times, yes.. A normal uni bird who's never been within arm's reach of a white guy before certainly will not try to dig your tonsils out, but would probably try it if you'd been dating for a few months.

"Normal uni bird" . . . rolleyes.gif

There must be loads of farang who think that Thai people only have sex in the missionary position with the lights out after a heated bout of furious and frantic sniff-kissing, or something.

Conversely, There must be loads that convince themselves that these 'Uni girls' they meet and end up having wild sex with after a matter of hours, days or even weeks are actually a fair cross section of the better part of Thai Society. :whistling:

Steady on John, I thought we were just talking about "normal uni girls" . . .

. . . OK I'll play :

  1. Have you been to uni in Thailand?
  2. How many Thai people in uni or who have recently graduated do you know?
  3. In what capacity do you know them?
  4. Do you communicate with them in Thai or English?
  5. Do you hang out and / or party with them?
  6. Can you elaborate on the key behavioural characteristics which form your schema of yes-tongue-play and no-tongue-play girls?

I've never bothered with questionnaires, yours oozes an arrogant assumption of the recipients non-integration with the local 'educated' population? Let's just say that I recently turned 30, have spent over 1/3 of my life here while never teaching a word of English or any other subject. You'd only have to ask a handful of Thai guys to get an answer that conflicts with your own opinion.

But alas... It would have been nice to educate you rather than argue with you :D

Edited by JohnnyFeelIt
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French kissing is a relatively new phenomena in Thai culture. That's not to say that Thais don't kiss on the mouth or that a Thai girl can't get very passionate kissing on the mouth. But French kissing is a very specific type of kissing that isn't really popular in Thai society yet. You won't see much or any of it happening on Thai drama programs or in Thai movies which is a decent barometer for what is mainstream and what isn't. And if she's not learning it in the Thai media and her parents are part of the older culture that don't do it . . . where do you think she's learning it?

Goes for much of Asia too, it's not just a Thai thing. Simply not as common. Even noticed this back home with fobbish students while in university. Weird at first to date chicks that didn't really know how to make out, and not because they had never dated before either

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Conversely, There must be loads that convince themselves that these 'Uni girls' they meet and end up having wild sex with after a matter of hours, days or even weeks are actually a fair cross section of the better part of Thai Society. :whistling:

Steady on John, I thought we were just talking about "normal uni girls" . . .

. . . OK I'll play :

  1. Have you been to uni in Thailand?
  2. How many Thai people in uni or who have recently graduated do you know?
  3. In what capacity do you know them?
  4. Do you communicate with them in Thai or English?
  5. Do you hang out and / or party with them?
  6. Can you elaborate on the key behavioural characteristics which form your schema of yes-tongue-play and no-tongue-play girls?

I've never bothered with questionnaires, yours oozes an arrogant assumption of the recipients non-integration with the local 'educated' population? Let's just say that I recently turned 30, have spent over 1/3 of my life here while never teaching a word of English or any other subject. You'd only have to ask a handful of Thai guys to get an answer that conflicts with your own opinion.

But alas... It would have been nice to educate you rather than argue with you :D

Pot, this is Kettle :

An odd reply given your rather confident sounding assertion regarding the so-called types of Thai girls who kiss with tongues;

"Uni girls who've been round the block more than a few times, yes.. A normal uni bird who's never been within arm's reach of a white guy before certainly will not try to dig your tonsils out, but would probably try it if you'd been dating for a few months."

My questions are merely designed ascertain the level and depth of your interaction with Thais who attend or have attended university, in particular Thai girls who attend or have attended university, thereby gauging the basis for your statement.

I ask those questions because the above quote conflicts with my experience as a Thai male who is not yet 30, which are by and large in coincidence with the experiences and observations of the pertinent (ie. Thai university experienced) sample of friends and acquaintances of both sexes aged in their 20's up to their 40's.

Far from assuming that my reality is the only reality, I am actually quite curious to see if your reality somehow overlaps with mine. I might get educated.

Over . . .

Edited by Trembly
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I think we have our answer.

Mind you, I wouldn't go shouting about the fact that you've just spent a decade in Thailand while I was spending most of that time abroad. wink.gif

Edited by Trembly
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Something that came to mind last night.

She is marrying this 'brother' who we obviously know isn't and is the boyfriend which he must have been for sometime for them to get married, all the time you were together.

If you knew about him he must have known about you. If he knew about you in Thailand he probably would have got 6 mates round to give you a kicking, but didn't.

This strikes me as odd ? EIther they aren't getting married and this is just a story to break up gently with you or they were planning to play you from the start with the old stupid belief that all Farangs are all rich.

Or has my mind gone all Miss Marple ? :blink:

I know who the "brother" is but I have never met him face to face before. He, on the other hand, might or might not know me. This is something I can never know. The bottom line is she is getting married with this "brother" of hers and I'm back to singlehood again.

It ever crossed my mind to speak to this "brother" of hers but after giving some thoughts, I figured that no matter what the end result is , I will be at a severe disadvantage most of the time. This girl know something about me such as my working location and address. If I call out her "brother" and her for a talk, the possible scenarios might be :

Scenario 1: The "brother" gets angry if he don't know about this, she gets angry because I ruin her marriage. In the end, I might get gunned down by somebody or I will have a vengeful woman haunting me. I get a bad rep for breaking up marriage. After all, "face" is very important in Thailand.

Scenario 2: The "brother" and she laughs at me because they are in this together and I have fallen into their trap. I get humiliated and possibly get beaten up for confronting him.

Scenario 3: The "brother" become angry but she will try to explain to him what happened from her point of view in Thai language. The "brother" forgive her and get some man to beat me up or I will die "mysteriously".

Scenario 4: The "brother" forgive her for her wrongdoings and let the matter rest as long as I disappear from her life.

Next, she don't pay for me all the time. Sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays.

Lastly, every one's experience differs from another. So whatever has happened to you doesn't mean it must happen to another person. People can have different experience from one another.

Edited by AngelofDeath
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well, i don't do it anymore, but she was friends with one of my friends for some reason. I used to accept everyone that sent me a request that knew at least one of my friends...but never again.

One time, a thai woman added me on facebook and i accepted even though i didn't know her. As soon as i accepted her, she started messaging me asking me about myself and started to tell me about her. She claimed she was from issan but lived in Pattaya alone (red flag for me). I had no intention of anything other than talking. She told me she was a Korean translator, so I looked at her pictures that she had on her profile and decided she was a bar girl. I immediately told her i had a gf when i saw that and she took me off her friends list. Not a big deal, but amazing how desperate some people are.

True, amazing how desperate some are.

;)

She was fishing/hunting.

And you accepted a stranger to be your friend. You do that with all the men asking to be addeed as well, or only women?

:P

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