UN Court Orders Thai And Cambodian Troop Withdrawal

[SteeleJoe]

Oops! Forgot to add:

The head of the Un (Secretary general) is Korean (Korea is not in Europe).

Howver, the International Court of Justice is located in The Hague -- which is in Europe -- that's true. But it's President is Japanese. Only 3 of its judges are European.

[Crushdepth]

First shot (arranged as a pretext) and they'll both be back in the trenches, international courts and justice be damnned.

[thetoonarmy]

funny thing the current foreign minister Khun Kaset will be favorite to be the next minister in the new coalition.

[mogoso]

I can hear it now from the Thai: "We don't recognize the court, they have no authority to tell us to do anything, so we don't have to abide by the ruling!"

And I agree with the Thai's right to say this. What is the UN going to do ask their lap dog Obama to enter militarily, no chance with that as the US is broke even if that idiot Obama doesn't understand that concept. What is the UN anyway mostly third rate countries groveling for more of the western world's cash for the pockets of their leaders.

[Just1Voice]

I can hear it now from the Thai: "We don't recognize the court, they have no authority to tell us to do anything, so we don't have to abide by the ruling!"

And I agree with the Thai's right to say this. What is the UN going to do ask their lap dog Obama to enter militarily, no chance with that as the US is broke even if that idiot Obama doesn't understand that concept. What is the UN anyway mostly third rate countries groveling for more of the western world's cash for the pockets of their leaders.

Then why don't you start a drive to lead Thailand to withdraw their membership from the UN? Why bother belonging to an international body whose decisions don't go along with your country's whims and wants? I'm sure you could get a few thousand to join you, if you don't mind the color of yellow too much. After all, Thai are superior to everyone else and don't need the UN, or anyone else for that matter. If you don't believe me, just ask them and they'll tell you.

The point, which you seem to be missing, is, if you are a member of the UN, and you AGREE to let the ICJ settle a dispute, you also agree, IN WRITING WHEN YOU JOIN, to abide by the decisions of the ICJ. Yes, you can disagree with a ruling, and have the right to file an appeal. Interestingly, though, when Thailand lost the initial ICJ ruling on the temple, they, in the seven years allotted to them for an appeal, never bothered to do so. Now, if they have such a strong case, then perhaps you can tell me why they didn't. As someone else mentioned in another post: "It's only justice if the ruling is in our favor!" That's the Thai way of thinking.

[Crushdepth]

I can hear it now from the Thai: "We don't recognize the court, they have no authority to tell us to do anything, so we don't have to abide by the ruling!"

And I agree with the Thai's right to say this. What is the UN going to do ask their lap dog Obama to enter militarily, no chance with that as the US is broke even if that idiot Obama doesn't understand that concept. What is the UN anyway mostly third rate countries groveling for more of the western world's cash for the pockets of their leaders.

So what's the alternative? He with the most guns wins? So much for "civilisation".

[siampolee]

To my mind the picture about sums up the gross stupidity and mental development of all the parties involved in this bloody farce.. Edited July 18, 2011 by siampolee

[Britannia]

I have seen the UN operate in Africa... they are too PC to have any effect. They have teeth, but don't bite. I doubt the Thais and Cambodians are too worried about this statement, they will not leave.

Sadly that's proven to be the case far too often; though it's down to civilian commanders in NYC rather than the troops in the field having sufficient valor and/or professionalism or not (on which score I think some are better than others).

So this is decided in Europe. Doesn't this reek of a bit of neo-colonialism to anyone else but me?

No, Just you

[AbdulJabaar01]

No, it's my sandbox and I won't get out. Make me. Daddy Taksin come make the bad man leave me along. Oh, Daddy.

[TerraPosse]

I have seen the UN operate in Africa... they are too PC to have any effect. They have teeth, but don't bite. I doubt the Thais and Cambodians are too worried about this statement, they will not leave.

Sadly that's proven to be the case far too often; though it's down to civilian commanders in NYC rather than the troops in the field having sufficient valor and/or professionalism or not (on which score I think some are better than others).

So this is decided in Europe. Doesn't this reek of a bit of neo-colonialism to anyone else but me?

Nope, just you. Be a good sport and do try to keep up.

[TerraPosse]

I can hear it now from the Thai: "We don't recognize the court, they have no authority to tell us to do anything, so we don't have to abide by the ruling!"

And I agree with the Thai's right to say this. What is the UN going to do ask their lap dog Obama to enter militarily, no chance with that as the US is broke even if that idiot Obama doesn't understand that concept. What is the UN anyway mostly third rate countries groveling for more of the western world's cash for the pockets of their leaders.

Then why don't you start a drive to lead Thailand to withdraw their membership from the UN? Why bother belonging to an international body whose decisions don't go along with your country's whims and wants? I'm sure you could get a few thousand to join you, if you don't mind the color of yellow too much. After all, Thai are superior to everyone else and don't need the UN, or anyone else for that matter. If you don't believe me, just ask them and they'll tell you.

The point, which you seem to be missing, is, if you are a member of the UN, and you AGREE to let the ICJ settle a dispute, you also agree, IN WRITING WHEN YOU JOIN, to abide by the decisions of the ICJ. Yes, you can disagree with a ruling, and have the right to file an appeal. Interestingly, though, when Thailand lost the initial ICJ ruling on the temple, they, in the seven years allotted to them for an appeal, never bothered to do so. Now, if they have such a strong case, then perhaps you can tell me why they didn't. As someone else mentioned in another post: "It's only justice if the ruling is in our favor!" That's the Thai way of thinking.

You sound way to reasonable for the whipped up prejudices and entrenched ideological mud-slinging around these parts of the 'nternet. Chapeau!

[parmo1]

I think it was President Tyler upon being told to remove troops fighting Spanish funded and armed Indians in South Florida by the Supreme Court, Gentlemen - I agree with your interpitation of the law - Please tell me how you intend to enforce it. something alone that line.

i don't think they had royal jets in those days (i have never heard of pres TYLER), Impounding theirRoyal jet in Germany will focus Thai authorities to the dangers of ignoring laws, i think

[dude007]

This will be interesting...

I was under the impression that Thailand has the right to put its troops where ever they please, within the boundaries of their own country.

That's just the problem: "Within the boundaries of its own country". And who will define this boundary? Thailand is largely intruding the demilitarized zone (have I seen with my proper eyes from Cambodia) after they burned the Cambodian market at the foot of the first stage stairs, also systematically shelling the pagoda at every squirmish. The Pagoda has sustained substantial damage already from cluster bombs and heavy artillery and it looks that the total demolition of this old Cambodian stone castle is the final objective....

[stanley2550]

Key Notation: When Children cannot settle things or people are too imature to settle things, the Court has to make the decision....Children is the key world here.

[hellodolly]

All nonsense aside. I could have told them that for 50 baht.

Shows the mentality or should that be lack of fr the ones in power on both sides.

[metisdead]

Two posts that were only quotes of other posts (empty posts) have been removed.

[meelousee]

"UN court orders Thai and Cambodian troop withdrawal immediately"

Since when is the UN in charge of the world?

What right do they have to order ANY sovereign nation to do anything?

I think they have out grown their usefulness.

Every one raise your hand and show the UN your finger of choice

[whybother]

I think it was President Tyler upon being told to remove troops fighting Spanish funded and armed Indians in South Florida by the Supreme Court, Gentlemen - I agree with your interpitation of the law - Please tell me how you intend to enforce it. something alone that line.

i don't think they had royal jets in those days (i have never heard of pres TYLER), Impounding theirRoyal jet in Germany will focus Thai authorities to the dangers of ignoring laws, i think

The 10th ... apparently - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyler

[hanuman1]

I think it was President Tyler upon being told to remove troops fighting Spanish funded and armed Indians in South Florida by the Supreme Court, Gentlemen - I agree with your interpitation of the law - Please tell me how you intend to enforce it. something alone that line.

i don't think they had royal jets in those days (i have never heard of pres TYLER), Impounding theirRoyal jet in Germany will focus Thai authorities to the dangers of ignoring laws, i think

555 .... can I live in your world? Please?

[Gonsalviz]

I have seen the UN operate in Africa... they are too PC to have any effect. They have teeth, but don't bite. I doubt the Thais and Cambodians are too worried about this statement, they will not leave.

Sadly that's proven to be the case far too often; though it's down to civilian commanders in NYC rather than the troops in the field having sufficient valor and/or professionalism or not (on which score I think some are better than others).

So this is decided in Europe. Doesn't this reek of a bit of neo-colonialism to anyone else but me?

Heh! Are you trying to be like some sort of caricature of a 60s lefty or something?

1) The UN is in New York City -- not Europe.

2) The UN is comprised of 193 member states the majority of which are not European (ie the whole freakin world).

3) Thailand and Cambodia are members by their own choice.

4) The UN has, as one of its mandates, the task of arbitrating in international disputes - which both Cambodia and Thailand agreed to in this instance.

So, I can't speak for anyone else but I can't imagine how it reeks of anything remotely as you describe. Better luck next time. (maybe you can find a way to blame the US on your next go!)

The UN is in NYC but the ICJ is in the Hague, which is decidedly European.

[webfact]

Demilitarised zone

By The Nation

Thailand, Cambodia told to get troops out of disputed area; Abhisit to meet Prayuth, NSC before talks with Phnom Penh; International Court of Justice rejects Bangkok's request to remove Preah Vihear Temple case from its hearing list

The International Court of Justice yesterday ordered both Thailand and Cambodia to withdraw their troops immediately from Preah Vihear Temple and its disputed area, rejecting Bangkok's request to remove the case from the general list.

The court also said it would continue to work on the interpretation of the scope and meaning of its 1962 judgement awarding the temple to Cambodia, as requested by Phnom Penh to end the long-running conflict over the ancient Hindu temple.

The court declared a "provisional demilitarised zone" around the temple that appeared to be smaller than the 4.6-square-kilometre area claimed by both sides, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Thailand would not pull its troops out of the zone until it consulted with agencies and Cambodia on how to comply with the order.

The Thai government was satisfied with the injunction against armed occupation of the zone, as it did not cause the loss of Thai territory, he said.

"I make it clear that the world court's decision is not binding on Thai sovereignty (over the territory) and the Joint Boundary Commission is the best forum to discuss the border issue," he said.

Abhisit said he would call a meeting at Government House at 9am today with Army Chief Prayuth Chan-ocha, Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan and senior officials from relevant agencies such as the Foreign Ministry and National Security Council to discuss measures over security in the disputed areas.

Asked whether JBC talks could begin now or should wait till the new government starts, Abhisit said talks could begin right away but legal interpretations would be needed to help his or the new government to make decisions.

Kasit said the court's decision was acceptable in the sense that both countries were ordered to retreat from the contested area. "It is our original position to see Cambodia withdraw its forces from the temple, its vicinity and Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Temple," he said. "We negotiate with Cambodia from time to time on this issue."

The Hindu temple of Preah Vihear has been sitting at the centre of tension between the neighbours since the court ruled in 1962 that the temple was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia, and Thailand argued that the temple's surroundings belong to Thailand.

Both sides' militaries have clashed off and on but the most recent and serious exchange took place in February, killing many civilians and soldiers on both sides.

ICJ president Hisashi Owada said in reading out the verdict that "having noted that the temple area had been the scene of armed clashes between the parties and that such clashes might reoccur, the court decided that, in order to ensure that no irreparable damage was caused, there was an urgent need for the presence of all armed forces to be temporarily excluded from a provisional demilitarised zone around the area of the temple."

The court also stated that Thailand should not obstruct Cambodia's free access to the Temple of Preah Vihear, or prevent it from providing fresh supplies to its non-military personnel.

It said Cambodia and Thailand should continue their cooperation within Asean and, in particular, allow the observers appointed by that organisation to have access to the provisional demilitarised zone, and that both parties should refrain from any action which might aggravate or extend the dispute before the court or make it more difficult to resolve.

The Cambodian delegation, led by Deputy Prime Minister Hor Namhong, said his country was content with the court's decision and the establishment of a demilitarised zone around the temple.

"What it means is there will be a permanent cease-fire. It will be tantamount to the cessation of aggression of Thailand against Cambodia," he was quoted as saying by Agence France-Presse.

-- The Nation 2011-07-19

[SteeleJoe]

The UN is in NYC but the ICJ is in the Hague, which is decidedly European.

Aren't you clever!

Oops! Forgot to add:

The head of the Un (Secretary general) is Korean (Korea is not in Europe).

Howver, the International Court of Justice is located in The Hague -- which is in Europe -- that's true. But it's President is Japanese. Only 3 of its judges are European.

The Hague is European. The Court is not, regardless of where it located.

[thaimat]

I can hear it now from the Thai: "We don't recognize the court, they have no authority to tell us to do anything, so we don't have to abide by the ruling!"

Then Prime Minister Thaksin was addressing the UN Human Rights Commission a few years back. When asked by the UN's Commission on Human Rights about his indictment, Thaksin told them to "mind your own business". Nuff said.

[geriatrickid]

Why is there such negativity and random Thai bashing?

There was an agreement to solicit the views of a disinterested party. A sensible decision was rendered. The acting foreign minister acted responsibly in response to the decision. Neither the PTP nor the Democrats nor the cambodians have said anything to suggest that they will encourage violence. Is it not possible that maybe the court's decision is a step in the direction of a peaceful resolution of the matter? Why is there a need to call for non compliance, or violence or other acts of stupidity? Let the parties work towards a peaceful solution. It is possible if people stop the posturing. War is fun for the bar stool sitters of Pattaya, Patongt and Bankok, but it isn't if your home is located in the fire zone or if its your kid that's sent to run around the minefields to "teach" someone a lesson.

[thaimat]

Why is there such negativity and random Thai bashing?

There was an agreement to solicit the views of a disinterested party. A sensible decision was rendered. The acting foreign minister acted responsibly in response to the decision. Neither the PTP nor the Democrats nor the cambodians have said anything to suggest that they will encourage violence. Is it not possible that maybe the court's decision is a step in the direction of a peaceful resolution of the matter? Why is there a need to call for non compliance, or violence or other acts of stupidity? Let the parties work towards a peaceful solution. It is possible if people stop the posturing. War is fun for the bar stool sitters of Pattaya, Patongt and Bankok, but it isn't if your home is located in the fire zone or if its your kid that's sent to run around the minefields to "teach" someone a lesson.

Reality dictates the negativity. For example, there are big glitzy casinos operated in a "free zone" between Thailand and Cambodia, at Aranyapathet/Poipet. The facts that Thais and Khmer can go there unhindered by any border issues, and that both countries armies are not fighting over these casinos, yet the same cannot be done for a temple, says it all.

[webfact]

related topic:

Thailand Satisfied With World Court Ruling On Thai-Cambodian Border

Follow this link:

[animatic]

I think it was President Tyler upon being told to remove troops fighting Spanish funded and armed Indians in South Florida by the Supreme Court, Gentlemen - I agree with your interpitation of the law - Please tell me how you intend to enforce it. something alone that line.

i don't think they had royal jets in those days (i have never heard of pres TYLER), Impounding theirRoyal jet in Germany will focus Thai authorities to the dangers of ignoring laws, i think

555 .... can I live in your world? Please?

Tippecanoe and Tyler Too

William Henry Harrison was the hero of the Battle of Tippecanoe and John Tyler was his Vice Pres, and then President when Harrison died 1 month into office.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/John_Tyler

Edited July 19, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

'SAffer' timestamp='1310979500' post='4566551'

I have seen the UN operate in Africa... they are too PC to have any effect. They have teeth, but don't bite. I doubt the Thais and Cambodians are too worried about this statement, they will not leave.

Sadly that's proven to be the case far too often; though it's down to civilian commanders in NYC rather than the troops in the field having sufficient valor and/or professionalism or not (on which score I think some are better than others).

So this is decided in Europe. Doesn't this reek of a bit of neo-colonialism to anyone else but me?

Heh! Are you trying to be like some sort of caricature of a 60s lefty or something?

1) The UN is in New York City -- not Europe.

2) The UN is comprised of 193 member states the majority of which are not European (ie the whole freakin world).

3) Thailand and Cambodia are members by their own choice.

4) The UN has, as one of its mandates, the task of arbitrating in international disputes - which both Cambodia and Thailand agreed to in this instance.

So, I can't speak for anyone else but I can't imagine how it reeks of anything remotely as you describe. Better luck next time. (maybe you can find a way to blame the US on your next go!)

The UN is in NYC but the ICJ is in the Hague, which is decidedly European.

Would it get more respect for it's decisions if it was sitting on Soi Nana?

It really makes no difference where the court sits, if it's decisions

are agreed in advance to be honored by joining parties.

[RickBradford]

"UN court orders Thai and Cambodian troop withdrawal immediately"

Since when is the UN in charge of the world?

What right do they have to order ANY sovereign nation to do anything?

I think they have out grown their usefulness.

Every one raise your hand and show the UN your finger of choice

Since Thailand and Cambodia invited the UN court to adjudicate on this issue because they couldn't make any headway themselves.

It's what the UN is there for.

[cardholder]

The International Court of Justice has ordered both Cambodia and Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area. However, it did go on to say that Thailand must not prevent Cambodian military and civilians from accessing the Phrea Vihear Temple.

Isn't there a contradiction ?

No, the order to withdraw troops is from the 'disputed' 4.5 sq km.

There is no dispute over the ownership of the temple, to which Cambodians (including troops) have access.