URGENT -- Gunman kills 'at least' 80 at youth camp near Oslo

[TommyDee]

despite the media's quick grope for pictures, lets just qualify a few comments here;

there is no such thing as a christian mason, there are however plenty of masons who are christian. Muslims, Christians, jews, sihks hindus in fact anyone who qaulifies to become a mason can be one, however he must ( in most cases) recognise a "God" or "being who is supreme to himself" FM is not a religion nor does it support any political persuasion.

all this from the internet of course, plus the fact that he will have lied and cheated to get "in" as he was most certainly not qualified in any way to be a FM.

[Travel2003]

My wife couldn't understand why they didn't just shoot him.

When I told her he was facing only 21 years she was astounded.

Hard to explain the bullshit of left wing liberal democracy to her.

I'm sure he will be sentenced to 21 years "forvaring" which in reality means life in prison as it can be extended

indefinitely if court find him to still be a danger to society.

Correct.

I see in the news papers quite a few experts is puzzled he did not shoot himself, but let himself be caught.

At least one can try to find out why , how, etc, now.

[koheesti]

Why is he called a "suspect" when they caught him red-handed on the island shooting people? Interrogate and execute the bastard.

Why does a white supremist who goes off on anti-Muslim rants go shoot dozens of white kids?

I think I read somewhere that the PM was supposed to have been there to give a speech to the kids? Was he the real target and when he didn't show up this guy snapped and decided to just kill everybody?

[OzMick]

I am speechless, when all I can give is condolences to all the people of Norway and to the wonderful Norwegian friends I have made in Thailand.

They preach the superiority of the "White Race" (especially the Nordic "race") and feel the Nazis in Germany were betrayed by the English and the Americans during WW2.

What a sad story. I don't get the plot. So the English and American betrayed the German Nazis?

Let them rest in peace, a speedy recovery for the injured ones..

The Nazis were also racial supremists (although Hitler didn't quite fit the picture) supposedly purifying their race of the Jews, and fighting the Russian Slavs, long time enemy of the Scandinavians. It was galling that other so-called white cultures defeated them. How they overcome the alliance with Japan factor is a mystery, Hitler probably had the same problem.

How somebody can justify mass-murder as a political statement is beyond my comprehension. I guess that every homocidal maniac is someone's "freedom fighter" and with some of the posters, the view changes with which country they are in.

[Travel2003]

Why is he called a "suspect" when they caught him red-handed on the island shooting people? Interrogate and execute the bastard.

Why does a white supremist who goes off on anti-Muslim rants go shoot dozens of white kids?

I think I read somewhere that the PM was supposed to have been there to give a speech to the kids? Was he the real target and when he didn't show up this guy snapped and decided to just kill everybody?

Im not sure he was caught doing it. I have not read anything about that.

The word suspect has been changed to accused now.

Still, he needs to be found guilty in court.

He has a grudge against the ruling party in Norway.

He is more a nationalist than a neo-nazi/skinhead/white supremist.

He hates multicultural societies. Something ha has written about online.

Facebook shut down his anti-muslim hate page some time ago.

This was the annual summer camp for the youth wing of the Labour party (or Social democrats).

The PM was scheduled to speak the day after (today).

I only guess now, but I pressume there would have been some sort of police escort when the PM was there.

Anyhow, this guy really hates the politics of the ruling party, and has repeatdly expressed so online.

[OzMick]

My wife couldn't understand why they didn't just shoot him.

When I told her he was facing only 21 years she was astounded.

Hard to explain the bullshit of left wing liberal democracy to her.

Yep he doesn't deserve a trial or the people paying for his trial or supporting him for the rest of his life either, simply do street justice in this case it seems pretty clear given the circumstances..

Everyone accused of a crime deserves a trial. That's the way civilised societies work.

When a person has committed many murders and is observed in the act of committing more, do you not think extreme action is justifiable? In the situation, I would have no more reservation in shooting him than I would shooting a rabid dog (which would probably kill far less people).

Civilized societies have police and soldiers to protect 99% of the population from the other 1%. The better they do their job, the less they are appreciated. That is a garbled quote who's source I can't remember, but true none-the-less.

Edited July 23, 2011 by OzMick

[Huey]

What is it with Europeans, guns and mass shooting? These are becoming a monthly event. And why do Europeans love to target children? Is it because children are the future of humanity?

No, but there is no risk that children have guns and might shoot back. The police said that the shooter faces 21 years in jail. And with the legal system there, he might be out after 10. For good behaviour inside. Provided he is not found insane and cannot be put in jail but in a psychological institution. Where a doctor may find him sane after a couple of years and release him. Wether he then has to serve the jail sentence, I don't know. A few years ago, this was not the case and he would be free. Maybe they have changed the law.

Say what you want about capitol punishment, but I for one am 100% behind the death penalty for this guy.

[Travel2003]

What is it with Europeans, guns and mass shooting? These are becoming a monthly event. And why do Europeans love to target children? Is it because children are the future of humanity?

No, but there is no risk that children have guns and might shoot back. The police said that the shooter faces 21 years in jail. And with the legal system there, he might be out after 10. For good behaviour inside. Provided he is not found insane and cannot be put in jail but in a psychological institution. Where a doctor may find him sane after a couple of years and release him. Wether he then has to serve the jail sentence, I don't know. A few years ago, this was not the case and he would be free. Maybe they have changed the law.

Say what you want about capitol punishment, but I for one am 100% behind the death penalty for this guy.

This man should be studied, like a lab specimen, by all types of experts.

Maybe we can learn something.

We all know too well, this will happen again.

But maybe, maybe by studying this human, it can help us prevent one of the future cases like this.

And when he passes away, open up his brain and do some more studying.

[gbswales]

I watched some early news reports online that stated "this feels like Al Qaeda" but now I am reading the nut job that went on a shooting rampage was from the "far right" and anti-Muslim.

The "us" vs. "them" mentality won't take humanity very far. Anyone the kills and hates should be denounced no matter what their view.

How horrible, RIP.

The far right are just as obnoxious as Islamic radicals, but they are opposite sides of the same coin. This is a terrible tragedy and I'm sure some introspection is in order as to what lessons can be learned. Personally I think open border immigration policies are a contributing factor, indeed very recently the Norwegians increased the number of police patrolling their land borders.

I think you are wrong because it is borders, nationalism, mind control (religion!)and the unfair distribution of wealth which create these divides in the first place - I wont live to see it but the only hope of ever seeing an end to this kind of carnage is the recognition that we are citizens of one world and that nationality, religion, and intolerance are unimportant irrelevant issues if the world is going to survive. I feel so impotent every time I read about people dying for things that on a worldwide scale are totally unimportant - even in Thailand blood is spilt over which government is in power and on the border with Cambodia they are almost fighting over a pile of old unimportant rubble - why cant the world just grow up!

[cdnvic]

Three posts deleted. If you think that this is a topic in which you can make flippant, disrespectful remarks, or if you have an axe to grind with any particular group, you will find yourself silenced in short order. Please consider the gravity of the topic and be respectful.

[Scorpio1949]

Three posts deleted. If you think that this is a topic in which you can make flippant, disrespectful remarks, or if you have an axe to grind with any particular group, you will find yourself silenced in short order. Please consider the gravity of the topic and be respectful.

With thanks to moderator and of course respect to the victims and their families

[EvilDrSomkid]

As a Norwegian, I am very saddened by this.

nwnet, are you trying to insinuate something with your Freemason picture posts?

[Travel2003]

The latest is now the Police say it might be a second shooter somewhere out there.

Several of the youngsters on the island claim to have seen a second man, and also heard shots from 2 different locations.

The Police is working full power to check this up of course.

[SteeleJoe]

There are some posts on this thread with which I really take issue -- as I do the apparent thinking behind them -- but I don't feel this is the time and place to say anything other than this is a horrible tragedy and a truly evil act no matter who is responsible or why.

My sympathies to Norway -- but to a lesser extent, to us all. As I did on Spetmeber 11, 2001 within minutes of watching the plane go in, I feel this kind of an event ultimately transcends national borders or what passport you hold but rather is a human tragedy.

RIP to the victims and strength and peace to their survivors.

[gbswales]

What is it with Europeans, guns and mass shooting? These are becoming a monthly event. And why do Europeans love to target children? Is it because children are the future of humanity?

No, but there is no risk that children have guns and might shoot back. The police said that the shooter faces 21 years in jail. And with the legal system there, he might be out after 10. For good behaviour inside. Provided he is not found insane and cannot be put in jail but in a psychological institution. Where a doctor may find him sane after a couple of years and release him. Wether he then has to serve the jail sentence, I don't know. A few years ago, this was not the case and he would be free. Maybe they have changed the law.

Say what you want about capitol punishment, but I for one am 100% behind the death penalty for this guy.

The problem here is that you perpetuate the notion that it is OK to kill another person in justifiable circumstances - So isn't the person whose family are killed as collateral damage in some war not equally justified in killing the president or leader that murdered their family - see where I am going with this? Many of murderers fully believe in the justification of what they are doing so using murder as a punishment for murder vindicates what they believe. To my mind this is a rare opportunity to try and find out why someone does something like this in the first place - what drove him to believe (as he almost certainly did) that he was justified in this awful act. In almost all shootings of this type the murderer ends up dead either by suicide or in a shoot out - well done to the Norwegian police for taking him alive. This is a worldwide problem not just a European one and information about motivation, patterns of behavior could possibly help prevent other future events.

[lannarebirth]

Of course he wasn't Muslim, you can tell that from the photos. He was a Mason. You don't see Muslim Freemasons to often.

Normally I would feel like rubbing it the faces of the usual suspects. You know who you are; the far right bigoted trash that love to bash anything that doesn't conform to the Faux news conservative,christian,white, anti-Muslim line of following (I refuse to call it "thinking").

But as I read more about it I feel more sorrow than anger. I just feel for the Norsemen, I always wanted to visit there. The Norwegen folks I have met have always been super cool. Their culture is one that I admire, and I love the stories from their native faith, the elder Gods & Goddesses of legend. I also feel as though its a stark warning for us all. First the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords (liberal congress woman in Arizona, US) now another heinous act of terrorism from the far right.

And while thats nothing new. I would hate for this kind of BS to continue to divide the world and kill everyone in the middle.

PS

F&*% R. Murdoch

The Far Right is big enough to include radical Islamists, neo-Nazis, extremist Jews, the Burmese junta and plenty of other whackos.

[Travel2003]

There are some posts on this thread with which I really take issue -- as I do the apparent thinking behind them -- but I don't feel this is the time and place to say anything other than this is a horrible tragedy and a truly evil act no matter who is responsible or why.

My sympathies to Norway -- but to a lesser extent, to us all. As I did on Spetmeber 11, 2001 within minutes of watching the plane go in, I feel this kind of an event ultimately transcends national borders or what passport you hold but rather is a human tragedy.

RIP to the victims and strength and peace to their survivors.

Thank you for your very human and decent post.

I read somewhere in the Norwegian media someone said this is Norway's Oklahoma City bombing (since it is domestic enemies).

I will never forget where I was Sep 11, 2001, nor will I forget yesterday.

[slapout]

Hard to add to or improve on that, Joe. Some people need to reflect on any tragedy prior to making a statement, or in TV's case, posts.

Condolence for the families and all those affected by yet another tragedy, for which, any justification or rational, is beyond me.

[EvilDrSomkid]

What strikes me as odd, is that it took 30 minutes for the police to get there, but according to reports he (or they) was shooting for 2 hours. Why did the police not intervene sooner?

I see very little mention of this fact in the Norwegian news.

[cdnvic]

I'm finding the time lines varying a lot between news sources. I suspect it might take a few days to get a grip on the real chain of events.

[Travel2003]

I think all the interviewed say the shootings lasted for about 2 hours.

The Police say they arrived after 30 minutes, which maybe means 30 minutes after they left the station.

I guess we will know later.

If it was only one shooter, it is almost unreal how he managed to basically" execute" so many people, after they became aware of his presence and intentions, within 2 hours.

Even more amazing is it if he has managed to find a "soulmate" to go along with this crazyness.

[cdnvic]

One post and one quoting it deleted, and posting rights from one poster removed. Seriously, keep your personal political grudges and profanities out of this topic. Those who have been here awhile know I don't joke around about this.

This is a serious tragedy for many of our members, and disrespect will not be tolerated.

[jimreindeer]

Very terrible tragedy. How the world can be so bad? ....and this is not the only terrible thing.

[PaulBax]

I was online chatting to a friend in Oslo when he said " my windows shooked due to a storm!" i spent 5 minutes laughing at his use of English.<br> it was only when is mother called 45 minutes later and asked if he was ok we realised what had happened!<br>My friend lives about 1km from the bomb.  He walked down close and called me to say how terrible it looked.<br>The news of the shooting had not broken at this time!<br><br>My god what is the world coming to?<br><br>May all RIP and may he and any co conspirators, should there be any, never see the light of day again!<br><br>Tragic!<br><br><br><br><br>i <br>

[elektrified]

All I can say after looking at the photos is that it is truly amazing that one single individual could be responsible for so much damage and carnage. What a sad day in history. How could someone be so evil???

[cdnvic]

Final warning to keep personal political grudges out of it. One post deleted. Next one gets a week suspension.

[Travel2003]

All I can say after looking at the photos is that it is truly amazing that one single individual could be responsible for so much damage and carnage. What a sad day in history. How could someone be so evil???

Agree.

I sit here thinking how it is possible.

We read about these maniacs that goes on a rampage killing many people.

But shooting 84??

I have the same feeling I had in Sep 2001.

It is kind of unreal in some way.

[regfrancis]

Condolences to the families of the deceased

Its up to the individual countrys if they want keep allowing this sort of incident or not

In Australia after the PORT ARTHUR MASSACRE (1996) John Howard (a decisive and popular prime minister) recalled most firearms

From Wekepedia......................................................................................................................................................

Because the Australian Constitution prevents the taking of property without just compensation the Federal Government introduced the Medicare Levy Amendment Act 1996 that provided the revenue for the National Firearms Program through a one-off 0.2% increase in the Medicare levy. Known as the gun buy-back scheme, it started across the country on the 1 October 1996 and concluded on the 30 September 1997 ^[22] to purchase and destroy all semi-automatic rifles including .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns. The buyback was predicted to cost $A500 million and had wide community support.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Edited July 23, 2011 by regfrancis

[WarpSpeed]

My wife couldn't understand why they didn't just shoot him.

When I told her he was facing only 21 years she was astounded.

Hard to explain the bullshit of left wing liberal democracy to her.

Yep he doesn't deserve a trial or the people paying for his trial or supporting him for the rest of his life either, simply do street justice in this case it seems pretty clear given the circumstances..

Everyone accused of a crime deserves a trial. That's the way civilised societies work.

Nope they had the chance to use one cheap bullet or even a dozen of them and end it and just walk and say ooooops!! Should have taken it..

[WarpSpeed]

I think all the interviewed say the shootings lasted for about 2 hours.

The Police say they arrived after 30 minutes, which maybe means 30 minutes after they left the station.

I guess we will know later.

If it was only one shooter, it is almost unreal how he managed to basically" execute" so many people, after they became aware of his presence and intentions, within 2 hours.

Even more amazing is it if he has managed to find a "soulmate" to go along with this crazyness.

Scared children captive on a small island, not at all hard to believe..