A Tale Of Three Helicopter Disasters In Thailand

[webfact]

KANG KRACHAN TRAGEDY

A tale of three helicopter disasters

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

Over a period of just nine days, three of the Army's helicopters crashed in Kaeng Krachan National Park, Phetchaburi, plunging the nation into a state of shock at the tragic accidents that claimed 17 lives.

The first accident took place on July 16 and involved a UH-1H helicopter, known as a Huey. The crash happened in bad weather and poor visibility. All five officers on board perished. The rescue team found the charred wreckage at the crash site, about 10 metres below the mountaintop.

The crashed helicopter was refurbished following its decommission from the United States before being deployed in the Army's aviation service about 10 years ago.

Manufactured by Bell Helicopter, the Huey is a utility helicopter with twin engine, one two-blade main rotor and one two-blade tail rotor.

Its fuselage can accommodate up to 14 troops or six stretchers for medical evacuation. Its flight range is 512 kilometres and its airborne time is three hours. Cruise speed is 204 kilometres per hour.

In the second accident, a UH-60L, known as Black Hawk, went down on July 19, killing eight officers and one television cameraman on board. The utility helicopter crashed in bad weather and poor visibility while on a mission to recover the five bodies from the first accident.

The Black Hawk is ranked as one of the top ten helicopters in military service around the world. The Army began to deploy Black Hawks in 2002. The crash leaves six in deployment at the Army's Lop Buri Aviation Centre. Two new Black Hawks are on order and the Army plans to increase the deployment to 33 UH-60 helicopters.

Manufactured by Silorsky Aircraft Corporation, the Black Hawk has the capacity to transport 14 troops or six stretchers or lift 4,400 kilograms of cargo.

Its flight radius is 592 kilometres with a cruise speed of 278 kilometres per hour. It is a four bladed, twin engine, medium-lift utility helicopter.

In the third accident, a Bell 212 crashed on July 24 while on its way for maintenance checks after completing its mission to transport the nine bodies in the second crash. Of the four officers on board, one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

The Bell 212, or Twin Huey, is a two-bladed, twin-engine, medium helicopter manufactured by Bell Helicopter.

Deployed in the Army since 1992, it has the capacity to transport 14 troops with a cruise speed of 186 kilometres per hour. Its flight range is 439 kilometres.

UH-1H, Huey, helicopter

Manufacturer: Bell Helicopter

Status: Refurbished and in commission for 10 years

Specifications

Capacity: 14

Length: 12.5 metres

Height: 4.4m

Maximum takeoff weight: 4,308 kilograms

Performance

Maximum speed: 204 kilometres per hour

Cruise speed: 204km per hour

Range: 512km

UH-60L, Black Hawk, helicopter

Manufacturer: Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation

Status: new and commissioned in 2002

Specifications

Capacity: 14

Length: 19.76 metres

Height: 5.13m

Maximum takeoff weight: 10,660 kilograms

External cargo load: 4,400 kg

Performance

Maximum speed: 295km per hour

Cruise speed: 278km per hour

Range: 2,200km

Bell 212, Twin Huey, helicopter

Manufacturer: Bell Helicopter

Status: new and commissioned in 1992

Specifications

Capacity: 14

Length: 17.43metres

Height: 3.83m

Maximum takeoff weight: 5.080kg

External cargo load: 2,268kg

Performance

Maximum speed: 223 km per hour

Cruise speed: 186 km per hour

Range: 439 km

-- The Nation 2011-07-27

[Bizz]

Are all three incidents linked.

[Moruya]

It's not a tale at all. It's a Google with a hint of varnish

[Tropicalevo]

Are all three incidents linked.

According to the locals - yes.

The National Park where the incidents happened is reportedly haunted.

The first crash was flying into the mountain in bad weather.

The second cash going to collect the bodies of the poor victims of the first crash and then flying into the same mountain in bad weather.

The third crash was mechanical failure whilst on the way to collect the bodies of the victims from the second crash.

All three crashes were less than 50 kilometers apart.

Spooky.

(Details are from the Bangkok Post 25.7.11)

[Flex2791]

3 crashes with multiple fatalities and all solved in record time and none blamed on pilot error. Since 80% or more of all air crashes are due to pilot error, we all know the truth will never be told here as usual. Pilot error would make General you know who look bad.

[elcent]

I think that all of the helis have certain military software in the helis and in use. Better to check these.

StuxVirus is not a joke and it really exists.

Something similar could have been tested too.

Especially the last one where it was reported that 2 machines stopped at the same time made me think about that.

[chooka]

agic story and my condolences to the families.

[hehehoho]

I've got a few airforce helicopters that fly over my Bangkok condo most mornings between two bases (presumably). Cannot imagine if one (or three) of these go down into the city streets, boucing off a few buildings first.

[Rekku]

First two were common pilot error, PIC(Pilot In Command) should not to continue to so bad weather and poor visibility. I think the first was not on the map at all, even any GPS was use, those are sometimes in helos too slow to update. Third one was tail-rotor problem, as mechanic reported. So I think there were no virus.

UH-1 is so old technology, that It should work without electricity, call it as failsafe. Where in there is said that both engines shutdown in third case?

I think the biggest problem there is called airmanship. Decisions not to/go to in bad weather.

You cannot fly in IMC(Instrument Meteorical Conditions) near to ground and zero visibility even how many computers, DGPS or GPS you have.

All these are my assumptions and opinions, I think we have to wait real accident report if it is published. Maybe year or two.

And I can confirm that UH1 is old, but still capable and UH60 is very agile, powerful and the best Utility Helo (after Mi-17 )

And condolences for the families. I always feel sad when pilots and crew are down. RIP

Edited July 27, 2011 by Rekku

[elcent]

First two were common pilot error, PIC(Pilot In Command) should not to continue to so bad weather and poor visibility. I think the first was not on the map at all, even any GPS was use, those are sometimes in helos too slow to update. Third one was tail-rotor problem, as mechanic reported. So I think there were no virus.

UH-1 is so old technology, that It should work without electricity, call it as failsafe. Where in there is said that both engines shutdown in third case?

I think the biggest problem there is called airmanship. Decisions not to/go to in bad weather.

You cannot fly in IMC(Instrument Meteorical Conditions) near to ground and zero visibility even how many computers, DGPS or GPS you have.

All these are my assumptions and opinions, I think we have to wait real accident report if it is published. Maybe year or two.

And I can confirm that UH1 is old, but still capable and UH60 is very agile, powerful and the best Utility Helo (after Mi-17 )

And condolences for the families. I always feel sad when pilots and crew are down. RIP

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

Edited July 27, 2011 by elcent

[skippybangkok]

Well, a bit embarrassing to admit incompetence by crashing 3 Helo's, so best to create a media storm about spooky ghosts in the hills....... If the public bought the Yingluck story, they will buy this one too.

[Rekku]

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

[djvolak]

Are all three incidents linked.

It said the third crash happened after they dropped off the last of the bodies from the other crashes. They were heading to do scheduled maintenance when they crashed.

According to the locals - yes.

The National Park where the incidents happened is reportedly haunted.

The first crash was flying into the mountain in bad weather.

The second cash going to collect the bodies of the poor victims of the first crash and then flying into the same mountain in bad weather.

The third crash was mechanical failure whilst on the way to collect the bodies of the victims from the second crash.

All three crashes were less than 50 kilometers apart.

Spooky.

(Details are from the Bangkok Post 25.7.11)

[chooka]

Well, a bit embarrassing to admit incompetence by crashing 3 Helo's, so best to create a media storm about spooky ghosts in the hills....... If the public bought the Yingluck story, they will buy this one too.

It is funny that you mention ghosts, that is exactly what my thai wife said was the cause of the 3 accidents. I just smiled said yes and went out side and burst into laughter.

[tommet]

Are all three incidents linked.

According to the locals - yes.

The National Park where the incidents happened is reportedly haunted.

The first crash was flying into the mountain in bad weather.

The second cash going to collect the bodies of the poor victims of the first crash and then flying into the same mountain in bad weather.

The third crash was mechanical failure whilst on the way to collect the bodies of the victims from the second crash.

All three crashes were less than 50 kilometers apart.

Spooky.

(Details are from the Bangkok Post 25.7.11)

Haunted? Well it is now.

What links all three accidents is flying low over mountains in thunderstorms.

Thunderstorms create powerful and sudden downdrafts, which can effectively rob a helicopter of all its lift in a moment.

After the first crash no further helicopters should have been sent into the area, instead the recovery should have been attempted on foot.

Sending in two more in with the same results was obvious folly.

Edited July 27, 2011 by tommet

[elcent]

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

I read another thing where he said ..."then suddenly the two engines stopped"

I wouldn't even know of two engines in a heli.

[snarky66]

I'm still trying to work out why they were flying over Burma. Did they stop to collect some heroin on the way?

[Gers1873]

3 crashes with multiple fatalities and all solved in record time and none blamed on pilot error. Since 80% or more of all air crashes are due to pilot error, we all know the truth will never be told here as usual. Pilot error would make General you know who look bad.

80% of all air accidents are caused by human error. This does not necessarily translate to pilot error.

Excellent book on air accidents The Unsafe Sky which I remember reading on a flight out of LHR around 1985........... my old boss, former head of the FAA, got a few negative comments which I was happy to point out to him....

Three 'mistakes' by Thai pilots, they have a reasonale safety record, is a bit odd. Perhaps it was ghosts

Edited July 27, 2011 by Gers1873

[beano2274]

Am sure plenty of airplanes and helicopters have flown over the area before, and they did not crash, so this ghost story is a lot of crap, to cover for pilot and administration errors, after the first crash should have gone in by foot not helicopters again, the weather had not changed so why oh why.

[Gers1873]

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

I read another thing where he said ..."then suddenly the two engines stopped"

I wouldn't even know of two engines in a heli.

Well in fact the UH-60(Blackhawk) has a four-blade main and tail rotors and is powered by twoGE T700 Turboshaft engines....... So now u know

[peterpop]

I am a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1. First incident bad weather, maybe lost [over Burma], probably unqualified to fly on instruments alone, no radar.

Flight should not have been authorised by commanding officer, probably struck trees.

2. Second incident, General on board, opportunity for the Senior Pilot who spends most of his time driving a desk, to fly to get credit for promotion, [old saying in professional circles ''Never fly with the Boss'', too much pressure to get to the scene, aircraft may have been overloaded [press on board, max fuel etc,] similar problems with basic flying skills in poor weather, poor supervision and authorisation.

3. Third crash may well have been tail rotor failure in which case the pilot would shut down the engines to minimise torque reaction and attempt autorotation, probably too low or downwind.

Crash sites became a photo opportunity for irresponsible press and public, forensics therefore more difficult.

Little chance of a dispassionate enquiry, but I would be looking at the Command, control and training of senior officers. The Bell and Sikorsky Helicopters are time proven and have excellent safety records with basic maintenance.

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

I read another thing where he said ..."then suddenly the two engines stopped"

I wouldn't even know of two engines in a heli.

[elcent]

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

I read another thing where he said ..."then suddenly the two engines stopped"

I wouldn't even know of two engines in a heli.

Well in fact the UH-60(Blackhawk) has a four-blade main and tail rotors and is powered by twoGE T700 Turboshaft engines....... So now u know

thanks for that info

Now, which one is the cause and which one is the effect when we consider that the two engines stopped at the same time. Are they connected to each other? Or was there a tail problem that caused the engines to stop? (this one doesn't make sense to me)

Now GE generators/reactors were involved in Fukoshima, when the switchboards malfunctioned and now in the Helis?

Edited July 27, 2011 by elcent

[atyclb]

Well, a bit embarrassing to admit incompetence by crashing 3 Helo's, so best to create a media storm about spooky ghosts in the hills....... If the public bought the Yingluck story, they will buy this one too.

It is funny that you mention ghosts, that is exactly what my thai wife said was the cause of the 3 accidents. I just smiled said yes and went out side and burst into laughter.

"One cannot alter a condition with the same mind set that created it in the first place."

Quote from Albert Einstein, a non Thai

[Moruya]

Let me tell you something about Thai pilots this week. A flight to Phuket a day or so ago encountered very bad weather on approach. The pilot took the decision not to land and returned to Bangkok. If I was his boss I'd give him a month's bonus for making a very brave and tough decision. It won't be too popular a decision with the airline as 30 - 40 tonnes of fuel will have been wasted but I'm sure they will recognise a very wise decision. I salute that man.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Rimmer
Quoted reply of a deleted post removed

[atyclb]

Great informative knowledgeable reply.

Thanks

I am a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1. First incident bad weather, maybe lost [over Burma], probably unqualified to fly on instruments alone, no radar.

Flight should not have been authorised by commanding officer, probably struck trees.

2. Second incident, General on board, opportunity for the Senior Pilot who spends most of his time driving a desk, to fly to get credit for promotion, [old saying in professional circles ''Never fly with the Boss'', too much pressure to get to the scene, aircraft may have been overloaded [press on board, max fuel etc,] similar problems with basic flying skills in poor weather, poor supervision and authorisation.

3. Third crash may well have been tail rotor failure in which case the pilot would shut down the engines to minimise torque reaction and attempt autorotation, probably too low or downwind.

Crash sites became a photo opportunity for irresponsible press and public, forensics therefore more difficult.

Little chance of a dispassionate enquiry, but I would be looking at the Command, control and training of senior officers. The Bell and Sikorsky Helicopters are time proven and have excellent safety records with basic maintenance.

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

I read another thing where he said ..."then suddenly the two engines stopped"

I wouldn't even know of two engines in a heli.

[elcent]

I am a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1. First incident bad weather, maybe lost [over Burma], probably unqualified to fly on instruments alone, no radar.

Flight should not have been authorised by commanding officer, probably struck trees.

2. Second incident, General on board, opportunity for the Senior Pilot who spends most of his time driving a desk, to fly to get credit for promotion, [old saying in professional circles ''Never fly with the Boss'', too much pressure to get to the scene, aircraft may have been overloaded [press on board, max fuel etc,] similar problems with basic flying skills in poor weather, poor supervision and authorisation.

3. Third crash may well have been tail rotor failure in which case the pilot would shut down the engines to minimise torque reaction and attempt autorotation, probably too low or downwind.

That sounds logical.

But three times within nine days is a bit hard to chew.

[griser]

The odds of three choppers falling out of the sky in the same area is pretty slim unless there is a very serious storm around.

My guess is that there was something the Thai were looking for there and were shot down for it.

Greg

[Grove]

Am sure plenty of airplanes and helicopters have flown over the area before, and they did not crash, so this ghost story is a lot of crap, to cover for pilot and administration errors, after the first crash should have gone in by foot not helicopters again, the weather had not changed so why oh why.

I agree. I would suggest the foot route would be better as it would rule out the goasts with the sniping guns as we have to remember the first chopper was on a anti logging poacher mission. I would gues there would be big money involved in illegal logging in a National park so just mabe there is another string attached here as all the incedents happened relatively close to each other

[BuPattaya]

I still think it had something to do with Myanmar. The crash was very close to Myanmar and all in the same area. I have never heard of 3 helicopters going down for no apparent reason. These helicopters are built to withstand alot including severe weather. One of my homes in Thailand is in the area where they went down and I was up there when this happened. The weather was not so bad as to cause a helicopter to go down and I have been on many of them. On Sunday when I heard another 1 went down and the weather was normal as far as I could see. I knew this was just to coincidental to be an accident.

My thoughts are that somebody shot these Birds down. We will probably never know the truth though...

[scotto]

this is terrible the fact that 3 helos went down in the same area within a few days of each other they really should train those ghosts better !!!!!

or were they all snorting the same stuff they just picked up?? dam_n ghosts you cannot trust them!!!!!!!

On a serious note may they R.I.P.