Australia's Jetstar Denies Exploiting Thai Staff

[samran]

er, um Australia has no problem you taking up Australian citizenship and keeping your British passport. You should check it out..

Hi Samran, yes I'm coming to a stage where I will just end up letting my British passport go. I'll be taking up oz citizenship before I wind down on my working life so that it is easier to come and go from here or even be in Thailand more permanently.

That's if I can pass that stupid english thing they make you do.

If you aren't already exempted from taking it, I'm sure you'll pass!

[Amras]

<br />

<br />

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

<br /><br />This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.<br />

<br /><br />$590 = 15.52 per hour on a 38 hour week pre tax.  $2,360 per month pre tax  a pitence and I wouldn't work for that in Aust .<br /><br />AUD = 32.82 baht   77,455 bht per month pre tax. after tax about 52,000 baht.<br /><br />You would struggle very hard to live on this in Aust as the average rent is approx 250 AUD per week.  However knock yourself out and go for it.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Don't know where you live in Australia, but in Melbourne there are not many rentals for around $250 per week anymore, especially if you're looking for a house. It's up around the 300-350 now. Housing is ridiculous in Australia at the moment. The average entry level house costs around 400-500k AUD. The cost of living is relatively high in Australia compared to say the US.

[Amras]

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />Kuffki, from the conditions you mention about your staff it seems you are a more than fair employer.  Unfortunately there are many that aren't and they end up causing grief for the employers that do the right thing.<br />

<br /><br />Thats the whole point, i am sure if you ask some of them, they will tell you how badly they are treated.and usually the ones who are really worth the money-either get pay rises or look for another job and the lazy, useless ones are the ones always complain about being used or underpaid or exploited.<br /><br />And i am 99% certain its the same across the board<br />

<br /><br />Yes I see your point and agree that some, maybe most are like that.  But some do have legitimate complaints regarding being paid under the minimum wage or being asked to work unreasonably long hours.  It is because of those employees actions that cause problems with reputable employers having to jump through hoops to satisfy govt organisations.<br />

<br /><br />No doubt, however again in most cases, employee does not speak the truth of what actually takes place.<br /><br />Employee would never confirm that he/she gets to go home earlier every day, but in return sometimes asked to stay longer(without pay)<br />Employee gets to pick holidays but sometimes asked to work on the weekends<br /><br />It is give and take, but with many employees, especially the ones who complain, it is never about them giving anything to employer, it is only about them taking.<br /><br />Jetstar is a budget airline, so staff are not expected to perform on the same level as full service airline, so they can not expect a salary of a full service airline.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Isn't that the difference to being paid a 'salary' which is understood does not include overtime and a paid by the hour (in which case you need to pay overtime)? I was employed in your scenario above under a salary and in my contract it was outlined that additional work may be required from time to time (at no additional pay). Part of the contract.

Didn't you have this in your contracts with your employees? If they were on an hourly rate then you need to pay them for the time they are there. They leave early, they get paid an hour less, the work an hour more, they get paid an hour more. This is the law and why many office, etc jobs are salary (as there is no need for overtime pay). Technical jobs are usually paid on number of hours worked.

If you had staff that were lazy, then why didn't you get rid of them during the probation period. Australia employers are allowed to have a probation period and if the employee is not working as expected for their wage then you have the right not to offer them a permanent ongoing contract, which is not 'firing them'. Surely as a good business owner you would know this, be able to determine the persons potential attitude while working during the interview, from references etc. Thought this was normal practice?

[kuffki]

Isn't that the difference to being paid a 'salary' which is understood does not include overtime and a paid by the hour (in which case you need to pay overtime)? I was employed in your scenario above under a salary and in my contract it was outlined that additional work may be required from time to time (at no additional pay). Part of the contract.

Didn't you have this in your contracts with your employees? If they were on an hourly rate then you need to pay them for the time they are there. They leave early, they get paid an hour less, the work an hour more, they get paid an hour more. This is the law and why many office, etc jobs are salary (as there is no need for overtime pay). Technical jobs are usually paid on number of hours worked.

If you had staff that were lazy, then why didn't you get rid of them during the probation period. Australia employers are allowed to have a probation period and if the employee is not working as expected for their wage then you have the right not to offer them a permanent ongoing contract, which is not 'firing them'. Surely as a good business owner you would know this, be able to determine the persons potential attitude while working during the interview, from references etc. Thought this was normal practice?

i was not aware that this topic was about me, nor was i ever i was posting about my situation

[kuffki]

<br />

<br />

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

<br /><br />This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.<br />

<br /><br />$590 = 15.52 per hour on a 38 hour week pre tax. $2,360 per month pre tax a pitence and I wouldn't work for that in Aust .<br /><br />AUD = 32.82 baht 77,455 bht per month pre tax. after tax about 52,000 baht.<br /><br />You would struggle very hard to live on this in Aust as the average rent is approx 250 AUD per week. However knock yourself out and go for it.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Don't know where you live in Australia, but in Melbourne there are not many rentals for around $250 per week anymore, especially if you're looking for a house. It's up around the 300-350 now. Housing is ridiculous in Australia at the moment. The average entry level house costs around 400-500k AUD. The cost of living is relatively high in Australia compared to say the US.

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city

2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+

Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+

Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 +

Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 000

1 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)

PS. Both apartments, not houses

[Amras]

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city 2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 0001 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)PS. Both apartments, not houses<br />

Melbourne suburbs, within an hour of the city. Everyone in Australia knows Sydney housing prices are ridiculous. Inner Melbourne you would be looking at min $500+ as well.

[Amras]

<br />

<br />Isn't that the difference to being paid a 'salary' which is understood does not include overtime and a paid by the hour (in which case you need to pay overtime)? I was employed in your scenario above under a salary and in my contract it was outlined that additional work may be required from time to time (at no additional pay). Part of the contract. <br /><br />Didn't you have this in your contracts with your employees? If they were on an hourly rate then you need to pay them for the time they are there. They leave early, they get paid an hour less, the work an hour more, they get paid an hour more. This is the law and why many office, etc jobs are salary (as there is no need for overtime pay). Technical jobs are usually paid on number of hours worked. <br /><br />If you had staff that were lazy, then why didn't you get rid of them during the probation period. Australia employers are allowed to have a probation period and if the employee is not working as expected for their wage then you have the right not to offer them a permanent ongoing contract, which is not 'firing them'. Surely as a good business owner you would know this, be able to determine the persons potential attitude while working during the interview, from references etc. Thought this was normal practice?<br />

<br /><br />i was not aware that this topic was about me, nor was i ever i was posting about my situation<img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

It was a reply based on your reasons for 'hidden' causes of 'not paying staff correctly', due to their laziness or whatever. There are ways around this, which is what I was highlighting. Hence there is no excuse for incorrectly or justifying why anyone should under pay any employee (in any business) and why they are only worth x amount (if thats min or under min wage).

Back on topic, isn't the whole Jetstar is an Australian company so should be employing people based on Australia rules and regulations valid? All foreign Jetstar employees would also need to obtain a business visa as they will be working within Australia as all Jetstar planes are deemed Australia ground (and deriving income from an Australian company). Technically otherwise they are working illegally. I believe I read that they don't all have business visas while working for Jetstar. Any one else read this?

In one of the articles posted, it stated on average our employees work 2x hours per week. An average is nothing, that's like determining the average Thai salary based on the slanted income within the whole country and including the top heavyness.

[Wallaby]

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city 2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 0001 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)PS. Both apartments, not houses<br />

Melbourne suburbs, within an hour of the city. Everyone in Australia knows Sydney housing prices are ridiculous. Inner Melbourne you would be looking at min $500+ as well.

Kuffki you must have sold at a very opportune time. Housing prices are dropping like stone now. I know Brisbane has dropped over 6% in the last few months. Houses have been very over valued lately over here.

I would be interested in a private chat about business/property etc over a few ales wiith you when I get close to making the permanent move as you are obviously no dunce.

But back on topic, this isn't really about pay rates etc, it is more about them having to work 20 hours or so on a shift and the staff, after those hours being able to do their work in a safe enviironment. I would think at around the 12 hour mark they may start to decline in their competence and may be unsafe.

[kuffki]

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city 2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 0001 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)PS. Both apartments, not houses<br />

Melbourne suburbs, within an hour of the city. Everyone in Australia knows Sydney housing prices are ridiculous. Inner Melbourne you would be looking at min $500+ as well.

Kuffki you must have sold at a very opportune time. Housing prices are dropping like stone now. I know Brisbane has dropped over 6% in the last few months. Houses have been very over valued lately over here.

I would be interested in a private chat about business/property etc over a few ales wiith you when I get close to making the permanent move as you are obviously no dunce.

But back on topic, this isn't really about pay rates etc, it is more about them having to work 20 hours or so on a shift and the staff, after those hours being able to do their work in a safe enviironment. I would think at around the 12 hour mark they may start to decline in their competence and may be unsafe.

absolutely 20 hours of work is impossible, however you have to keep in mind that when they are resting ie say BKK to SYD is only 9 hour flight, but there is also a lay over in Sydney before flying back and i could be wrong but they lay over time is also counted into the working hours. So in earlier example in fact they only work about 9 hours, while the other 11 are resting. Not in their home, but still in a nice hotel.

again i could be wrong, but i am pretty sure thats the case. I seriously doubt any airline makes their staff work for 20 hours as in being in flight and work for 20 hours straight

[Schillaci]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

You'd be living in a shoe box and eating out of tin cans every night. $590 doesn't go far, particularly in the capital cities.

[swerver]

Australia's Jetstar denies exploiting Thai staff

Why? everyone else is exploiting them. Just jump on the bandwagon.

Air crew basic salary is not that great. I believe they make their money from the various allowances, which end up being significantly more than their basic salary.

This debacle is as old as the airline industry. It was around when I started flying airplanes sixty years ago due to how hours are broken down. You start with a base pay, this is the hours you are present at the employer’s installation, while many times you just hang around with nothing to do but wait for assignment. It is completely impossible for the scheduled airline to have you come to the assigned place of work at time of aircraft departure. To the employer you are nonproductive – the employee’s attitude is: “I’m at work”. But in my early years the grumbling wasn’t as widespread because flight crews were all from the airline’s home country, so everyone was in the same boat. Working hours for an airline are when the wheels leave the ground; the aircraft becomes productive, until the wheels touch the ground at destination. That is when you make the money, called Flight Hours. At the end of flight hours you are back on base pay. When RO you are on base pay till reaching the RO (Hotel, Airline Quarters or your home). After that you are on your own time. When RO you have meal allowance, but was never able to buy meals for that allowance when RO in Hotel eating in Hotel facilities. Flight hours local flights are 8 in 24 with 16 hour rest. With Jet Aircrafts flying local even in large countries such as Australia and the US it is near to impossible to have a 8 hour flight in one stretch consequently you land up with broken up flight assignments with hang around time in between (more grumbling) International 256 hours a month 8 in 24 plus 4 hour additional allowed when extra crew member on board. Get the idea how complicated this monthly pay cheque configuring becomes, especially in my early days before computers. But even now with computers there are many input mistakes consequently the pay cheque never seems to be correct, even if it is correct (human nature). And now with different nationality flight crews, based in different countries comparing pay cheques becomes impossibility because also there are: Jr. Sr. Yrs Service, type cabin service (First, Business, Economy). My philosophy always has been, you like it, take it. You don’t like it, the gate is open, try your luck somewhere else and may another profession, but stop you’re grumbling making your own and other’s life miserable. Get the idea why I never wanted to fly for a scheduled airline? I always worked charter hauling cargo, saved my nerves having to listen to grumbling cabin crew. The only flight attendant would be on a cattle hauling flight to make sure the cattle remained calm and that guy usually was a veterinarian with his own salary system.

[metisdead]

A post with messed up quote tags has been removed as it's difficult to determine who said what. A number of posts in which a member posted quoted posts only with no contribution (empty posts) have also been removed.

[janverbeem]

>

<br />Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week<br /><br />This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.<br />

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city

2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+

Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+

Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 +

Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 000

1 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)

PS. Both apartments, not houses

Thank you for your multiple reply's to correct my misunderstanding,I didn't know Australia was going that way.I remember some years ago their ancestors were going the exact same direction.Currency tower high against others,house prices rising double digit percentages each year,and Pattaya full of their citizens throwing artound the Pounds as if it were candy's.I also recall reading that not so long ago there must have been a major change in those fortunes.I would like to ask my English friends about,only problem is that I don't notice them overhere anymore,I heard something blew up in their face.

So my next question is,how long before the big explosion will occur in Australia?

[softgeorge]

>

<br />Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week<br /><br />This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.<br />

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city

2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+

Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+

Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 +

Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 000

1 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)

PS. Both apartments, not houses

Thank you for your multiple reply's to correct my misunderstanding,I didn't know Australia was going that way.I remember some years ago their ancestors were going the exact same direction.Currency tower high against others,house prices rising double digit percentages each year,and Pattaya full of their citizens throwing artound the Pounds as if it were candy's.I also recall reading that not so long ago there must have been a major change in those fortunes.I would like to ask my English friends about,only problem is that I don't notice them overhere anymore,I heard something blew up in their face.

So my next question is,how long before the big explosion will occur in Australia?

Australia stopped using the Pound, Shillings and pence about 45 yrs ago. Australia now uses Dollars and cents. Candy that is an American term for a confectionary that Australians call Lollies. The Australian economy rides on the back of the mining industry where thier is a world thirst for iron ore particuarly in Asia and other natural resources such as uranium. The high costs of property can be contributed to places like the United Arab Emirates buying large tracks of land for farming and the the Rich Chinese buying as much prime real Estate as they can get. These things have pushed housing costs up in Aust and out of reach of ordinary Australians. It was not mismanagement by greedy banks like those in the US that led to the Global crisis that had little effect on Australia. Contaray to what you may believe Australians are not rich and I doubt that they would be throwing dollars into the air in Pattaya like lollies.

Any back to the topic at hand. This topic is about the alledged exploitation of Thai workers. Jetstar (Qantas) also have employees in places like New Zealand and Singapore who earn less than thier counterparts in Australia. The wages are based on government guidelines of those countries and they must pay a least the minimum wage with penalty rates and allowences. Jetstar pay above the award wages even to Thais so I cannot see the exploittation. The wages vary from country to country depending on the awards and the costs of living. If the Thai employees living in Thailand were paid the same as the employees living in Australia considering the cost of living b/w the two countries then the Thais would be 2 or 3 times better off than thier Aussie counterparts then there would be a cry that Australian employees were being exploited. It has taken me a few days but I finally got in touch with a friend and former Thai airways cabin crew member. She tells me that she was paid 11,000 baht per month plus minimal allowances such as 150 baht for a stop over in Melbourne. Hotels and food were paid for by Thai airways. No overtime was paid, no penalties for working on Thai public holidays and only 10 days leave per yr. If one considers the cost to a passenger flying brom BKK to MLB on Jetstar and Thai then thai airways would be making much greater profits than jetstar as they are one of the most expensive airlines. I would say Thai Airways are exploiting thier crews more than Jetstar.

My friend now works for a private company (Human Resources) contacted by Thai Airways to operate thier Melbourne business centre and earns around 5,000 AUD (160,000 baht) per month (pre tax) she says if she was doing the same job in Thailand she would earn less in a yr. She is married to a jetstar pilot...

[janverbeem]

>

<br />Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week<br /><br />This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.<br />

$300-$350 for a house? where in the suburbs?2 hour drive from the city

2 bedroom apartment in Sydney is $600+, house is $800+

Price to purchase 2 bedroom unit in the city $700 000+

Price to purchase house in the city or decent area $1 000 000 +

Just sold 1 bedroom, no parking, in Paddington for $660 000, my 2 bedroom in Surry Hills was valued few months ago at $850 000

1 bedroom was renting for $690 per week and 2 bed is currently paying $700 per week, but tenants been there for 5 year already so kept rent the same(others in the building paying $850 per week)

PS. Both apartments, not houses

Thank you for your multiple reply's to correct my misunderstanding,I didn't know Australia was going that way.I remember some years ago their ancestors were going the exact same direction.Currency tower high against others,house prices rising double digit percentages each year,and Pattaya full of their citizens throwing artound the Pounds as if it were candy's.I also recall reading that not so long ago there must have been a major change in those fortunes.I would like to ask my English friends about,only problem is that I don't notice them overhere anymore,I heard something blew up in their face.

So my next question is,how long before the big explosion will occur in Australia?

Australia stopped using the Pound, Shillings and pence about 45 yrs ago. Australia now uses Dollars and cents. Candy that is an American term for a confectionary that Australians call Lollies. The Australian economy rides on the back of the mining industry where thier is a world thirst for iron ore particuarly in Asia and other natural resources such as uranium. The high costs of property can be contributed to places like the United Arab Emirates buying large tracks of land for farming and the the Rich Chinese buying as much prime real Estate as they can get. These things have pushed housing costs up in Aust and out of reach of ordinary Australians. It was not mismanagement by greedy banks like those in the US that led to the Global crisis that had little effect on Australia. Contaray to what you may believe Australians are not rich and I doubt that they would be throwing dollars into the air in Pattaya like lollies.

Any back to the topic at hand. This topic is about the alledged exploitation of Thai workers. Jetstar (Qantas) also have employees in places like New Zealand and Singapore who earn less than thier counterparts in Australia. The wages are based on government guidelines of those countries and they must pay a least the minimum wage with penalty rates and allowences. Jetstar pay above the award wages even to Thais so I cannot see the exploittation. The wages vary from country to country depending on the awards and the costs of living. If the Thai employees living in Thailand were paid the same as the employees living in Australia considering the cost of living b/w the two countries then the Thais would be 2 or 3 times better off than thier Aussie counterparts then there would be a cry that Australian employees were being exploited. It has taken me a few days but I finally got in touch with a friend and former Thai airways cabin crew member. She tells me that she was paid 11,000 baht per month plus minimal allowances such as 150 baht for a stop over in Melbourne. Hotels and food were paid for by Thai airways. No overtime was paid, no penalties for working on Thai public holidays and only 10 days leave per yr. If one considers the cost to a passenger flying brom BKK to MLB on Jetstar and Thai then thai airways would be making much greater profits than jetstar as they are one of the most expensive airlines. I would say Thai Airways are exploiting thier crews more than Jetstar.

My friend now works for a private company (Human Resources) contacted by Thai Airways to operate thier Melbourne business centre and earns around 5,000 AUD (160,000 baht) per month (pre tax) she says if she was doing the same job in Thailand she would earn less in a yr. She is married to a jetstar pilot...

Ancestors = UK .got it?

[softgeorge]

janverbeem ok you were talking about the immigrants, ok got it.

[Norcan]

Wife's sister has been cabin crew for Jetstar for two years. She is a Thai national and turns 27 next week.

Her July has entailed 10 days of work and yes, there is the odd 20 hour shift that happens due to unforeseen circumstances like weather delays etc., but the THB50,000 for those 10 days more than compensates for this...in her eyes anyway.

She is very happy in her work and has never felt 'exploited'.

[TAWP]

Wife's sister has been cabin crew for Jetstar for two years. She is a Thai national and turns 27 next week.

Her July has entailed 10 days of work and yes, there is the odd 20 hour shift that happens due to unforeseen circumstances like weather delays etc., but the THB50,000 for those 10 days more than compensates for this...in her eyes anyway.

She is very happy in her work and has never felt 'exploited'.

So basically the pay seems fair and is not in any way exploiting people, being many-many times higher than minimum wage etc?

Job in the TV industry is much worse in this aspect, as hundreds of girls are ready to take over your position if you don't wanna sleep with the producer to become a VJ.

[nonresident]

Sorry guys, I''m just home home Coyboy so I havent read every constipation of this threat but the original article talked about 20 hour shifts. As an ex crew, that is the pivital question. Nobody can safety operate as a pilot or cabin crew after being on deck that long. If Thai law or any contrary can allow this we can are in trouble.

[F4UCorsair]

There is an old airline joke:

What's the difference between a flight attendant and a jet engine?

The jet engine stops whining when you shut down at the gate.

Nothing's changed. FA's think they are the most important people in the airline and should be paid more than pilots. I recall a campaign in Australia more than 20 year sago when they pushed to be 2IC on the aircraft in front of the copilot!!! Of course they wanted to be paid accordingly. Their contract was for a 28 hour week, due to hard bargaining by their union over many years, of which as little as two thirds could be actual flying. A cabin manager was being paid over $75,000. A copilot's contract provided for 45 hours a week and he was paid $120,000 pa. The hourly rate for a cabin manager was only $2.00 less than the copilot.

If Thai FA's are being paid $285 a month + $7 per hour, assume 80 hours flying, that gives $845 a month, $196 a week and that's a LOT of money for a Thai worker. I bet the woman selling coffee on a street corner doesn't earn anything like that. A well paid office worker is paid B15-20,000 a month, $99-120 a week, but most earn a lot less. I know a woman working for a travel agent in Chiang Mai who is paid B8000 a month and her boss charges B3000 for her flat.

Don't forget the allowances, and they would be paid at the same rate as Australian FA's. An overnight in Sydney could attract over $100 in meal allowances, depending on the actual hours off duty, and FA's live on fresh air, saving their allowances.

It's a very good earner for Thai FA's and if I was any one of them I'd be shutting my mouth and working my butt off because I bet they're not employed under Australian labour laws, and they could easily find themselves running a stall at Chatuchak.

Edited July 30, 2011 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

Wife's sister has been cabin crew for Jetstar for two years. She is a Thai national and turns 27 next week.

Her July has entailed 10 days of work and yes, there is the odd 20 hour shift that happens due to unforeseen circumstances like weather delays etc., but the THB50,000 for those 10 days more than compensates for this...in her eyes anyway.

She is very happy in her work and has never felt 'exploited'.

Norcan, your wife's sister is realistic. B5000 for 10 days work!! That's $300 a week. I think she should be happy working 10 days at 20 hours a day for that much.

[Norcan]

You're right, she is one of the more realistic and sensible Thai ladies I have met.

Just to add, to get the equivalent of the 5,000 per day, she has put her hand up for the long haul stuff out of Australia to Japan and Hawaii.

[wpcoe]

One thing to consider is that the thai employees may have stopovers in Australia. It is only fair that they get a higher then normal thai wage because the cost of everything in the stopover point (oz) is higher than in Thailand. I don't think it would be acceptable to give them an average thai wage and then they have to pay oz prices for food etc at a stopover.

That is exactly the purpose of the "per diem" mentioned a few times above in this thread with the assumption that the per diem should be considered income. Things are a LOT more expensive in many of the layover places, and depending on the level of thrift, a fair chunk of per diem can actually spent on the layover. So, don't just add on whatever per diem amounts are being quoted and consider it "income."

[Wallaby]

Some workers may be ok with doing the 20 hour shifts but are the passengers happy to have someone in charge of safety etc doing those hours?

I don't have much sympathy for trolley dollies but I wouldn't be too impressed if the already low service sunk even further and then if there just happened to be an emergency I would think their judgment may not be as it should.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Wallaby

[F4UCorsair]

One thing to consider is that the thai employees may have stopovers in Australia. It is only fair that they get a higher then normal thai wage because the cost of everything in the stopover point (oz) is higher than in Thailand. I don't think it would be acceptable to give them an average thai wage and then they have to pay oz prices for food etc at a stopover.

That is exactly the purpose of the "per diem" mentioned a few times above in this thread with the assumption that the per diem should be considered income. Things are a LOT more expensive in many of the layover places, and depending on the level of thrift, a fair chunk of per diem can actually spent on the layover. So, don't just add on whatever per diem amounts are being quoted and consider it "income."

Per Diems are generally calculated on the cost of eating in the hotel at which crew stay. Those hotels, e.g., Hyatt in Adelaide have a rack rate of $300+ a day, but airlines pay as little as $60 because they guarantee so many rooms for so many nights in a year when the strike the contract terms. To eat three modest meals in the Hyatt would in the order of $120 a day, and I expect that's what FA's are being paid. My experience with FA's, in a number of airlines for which I worked, was that they mostly had cheese and biscuits in their rooms, or went to the nearest noodle bar and ate on the cheap. Hosties were never noted for splashing out on food, and would often gorge on left over cabin food rather than buy a meal on the layover.

The point I'm making is that the salary is not intended to cover meals on layovers, and those allowances can add considerably to a FA's income. In my day, almost ten years ago, a layover in Tokyo was worth over #300 in per diems (that means 'per day'!!). even pilots couldn't spend that much if they tried, but a jug of beer in Tokyo was pretty expensive.

Also my experience with FA's was that in an emergency, very few performed well, with panic and indecision being normal. They don't undergo the psyche testing that pilots do in order to get a particular temperament.

I'd still say that Thai FA's would be well advised to do the job, wear the occasional screw ups that are inevitable in an airline operation, and keep a job that many would be prepared to kill for.

[F4UCorsair]

I just read back a couple of pages, and it seems that many are labouring under the misapprehension that the Thai FA's are living in Australia. They are not. They live in Thailand and crew flights to/from Australia. Whilst on layover at an Australian port, they receive allowances (per diems) based on what it costs to eat at the hotel at which they are staying.

They are not expected to live on Australia on a Thai salary, and from what I read, their salary gives them a good living in Thailand. FA's traditionally live on peanut butter sandwiches on lay overs, so the allowances are free and clear on top, and that could conceivably be another $600-800 a month, more in allowances than many Thais get for working full time back home.

FA's have never been different. They are a whining bunch.

[Daewoo]

I think most people are missing the main point of the article and Senator Xenaphon's statement.

Qantas/Jetstar are Australian flagged carriers, and are therefore expected to comply with Australian safety requirements wherever they fly (where not overrulled by International Regulations that are different/not reflected in Australian requirements).

Senator Xenaphon was not claiming Thai (or any other foreign crew) flying into/between Australian ports should be paid Australian wages. His concern was that as an Australian carrier, Qantas/Jetstar should comply with Australian safety standards including maximum shift durations and fatigue managment, which flows down into work contracts.

There is of course wider concern that Jetstar/Qantas are/intend to use foreign crews to reduce their domestic crewing costs, but quickly those staff would find that Australian living expenses would drastically increase their salary expectations, and salaries would probably return to simillar levels.

At the end of the day, being a trolly dolly is hardly the job of a rocket scientist, "Beef or Chicken" doesn't require a PdD in Astro physics. They have always been paid about double a typical food and beverage service staff wage, due to the more demanding nature, and then made significant additional income from entitlements/penalties.

I am far more concerned about the slipping stadard of flight crew (pilots,captains etc). When the shit hits the fan, I want an Aussie trained, highly qualified, dedicated 30 year veteran at the front of the plane, not some rich boy whose parents bought him a job, who has never had to make a critical decision in his life, and has done the minimum required hours in a simulator to work for minimum wages and steal the job from a real pilot,

Cheers,

Daewoo

[electau]

Jetstar is an Australian company owned by Qantas. It flies Melbourne to Phuket. about a 10 hour flight. They also fly Melbourne to Denpassar (Bali) about a 7 hour flight. Also Sydney/Cairns to Narita (Japan) about 10 hours.

With long shifts they can be problems with fatigue, which can and has caused accidents.

Jetstar Asia is based in Singapore and is part owned by Qantas. It flies Singapore to Bangkok and to many cities in SE Asia. Both Jetstar companies are separate entities. They do not codeshare with each other. There is also a Vietnam operation under the Jetstar name.

Jetstar Australia pays the Australian rates of remuneration to its aircrew and they are subject to Australian income tax and employer superannuation plus any other industrial agreements in force.Payments are in AUD.

The reference was to a Thai Employment Company which is part owned by Qantas which was recruiting Thais for Jetstar Asia. They would be paid at Thai rates of remuneration in THB.

Jetstar does not codeshare with Qantas.

Edited August 2, 2011 by electau

[electau]

There were two issues here, one was the employment contracts of Thai staff employed by Jetstar Asia and second was a genuine safety concern by Australian cabin crew due to long shifts on overseas flights on Jetstar from Australia. Separate issues.

　

[witsawakorn]

I think most people are missing the main point of the article and Senator Xenaphon's statement.

Qantas/Jetstar are Australian flagged carriers, and are therefore expected to comply with Australian safety requirements wherever they fly (where not overrulled by International Regulations that are different/not reflected in Australian requirements).

Senator Xenaphon was not claiming Thai (or any other foreign crew) flying into/between Australian ports should be paid Australian wages. His concern was that as an Australian carrier, Qantas/Jetstar should comply with Australian safety standards including maximum shift durations and fatigue managment, which flows down into work contracts.

There is of course wider concern that Jetstar/Qantas are/intend to use foreign crews to reduce their domestic crewing costs, but quickly those staff would find that Australian living expenses would drastically increase their salary expectations, and salaries would probably return to simillar levels.

At the end of the day, being a trolly dolly is hardly the job of a rocket scientist, "Beef or Chicken" doesn't require a PdD in Astro physics. They have always been paid about double a typical food and beverage service staff wage, due to the more demanding nature, and then made significant additional income from entitlements/penalties.

I am far more concerned about the slipping stadard of flight crew (pilots,captains etc). When the shit hits the fan, I want an Aussie trained, highly qualified, dedicated 30 year veteran at the front of the plane, not some rich boy whose parents bought him a job, who has never had to make a critical decision in his life, and has done the minimum required hours in a simulator to work for minimum wages and steal the job from a real pilot,

Cheers,

Daewoo

An 'Aussie trained 30 year veteran' at the front gives you more confidence does he? Do they even have pilot training facilities in Oz? Personally I would also like to know that the FAs are well trained too although not 30 year veterans since the totty wouldn't look so good!! Anyone remember the Garuda crash a few years back where the FAs were pushing the passengers out of the way to get off the plane. I think there is a bit more to it than asking beef or chicken when the sh1t hits the fan. Passengers who have a medical problem might also welcome a well trained FA being available