Dea Agent Killed In The '70S

[chaoyang]

In my 14 years in Chiang Mai I occasionally heard passing reference to a DEA agent that was killed under strange circumstances -- as I recall in a bar on Moon Muang Road. Do any of the old-timers recall this?

I looked at the DEA website and found the following. Is this the guy?

"Agent Robert C. Lightfoot was fluent in the Thai language and worked in DEA's Chiang Mai Resident Office in northern Thailand. Later on, this experience assisted him greatly in his role as liaison between DEA's Bangkok office and the Royal Thai Government.

"In 1977, Special Agent Lightfoot was re-assigned to the DEA Bangkok Office. Three months after his arrival in Thailand, Special Agent Lightfoot was killed as a result of an accidental discharge of his firearm. He was 34 at the time of his death.

Edited July 29, 2011 by metisdead
Font color and size reset to default forum font.

[SteeleJoe]

I wasn't here in the 70s but in the early 80s I heard stories about this -- completely true, partly true or not at all -- and even once met a guy (who was in prison at the time) that was supposedly involved.

As far as I recall, the story I had heard was that the DEA agent in question's death was not an accident. And it was in Chiang Mai.

To sum it up -- I can provide nothing useful at all! Sorry.

Edited July 28, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[LJW]

I was here in the mid eighties, heard the story that he commited suicide, have no idea what is true...

[Mekong Bob]

There have been no deaths of DEA Special Agents in Chiang Mai, 1970s to present. There was a daytime shooting in a Thai market area in Chiang Mai in the 1980s, resulting in death of the wife of a DEA Special Agent. Motive unknown.

There may have been an altercation or two on the Chiang Mai bar scene over the years which involved DEA Special Agents carrying handguns. No injuries, no deaths, no physical damage.

[philw]

There have been no deaths of DEA Special Agents in Chiang Mai, 1970s to present. There was a daytime shooting in a Thai market area in Chiang Mai in the 1980s, resulting in death of the wife of a DEA Special Agent. Motive unknown.

There may have been an altercation or two on the Chiang Mai bar scene over the years which involved DEA Special Agents carrying handguns. No injuries, no deaths, no physical damage.

I recall an incident about 1990 in the bar beer centre involving 2 DEA who pulled guns and shot a visiting Canadian.

If I recall correctly they and their families were out of Thailand within 24hrs and nothing much happened after that.

Not sure what the problem was, suspect it was just a bar fight.

I think but not sure that the Canadian was a journalist.

Any one else remember this ??

[chaoyang]

There have been no deaths of DEA Special Agents in Chiang Mai, 1970s to present. There was a daytime shooting in a Thai market area in Chiang Mai in the 1980s, resulting in death of the wife of a DEA Special Agent. Motive unknown.

There may have been an altercation or two on the Chiang Mai bar scene over the years which involved DEA Special Agents carrying handguns. No injuries, no deaths, no physical damage.

I recall an incident about 1990 in the bar beer centre involving 2 DEA who pulled guns and shot a visiting Canadian.

If I recall correctly they and their families were out of Thailand within 24hrs and nothing much happened after that.

Not sure what the problem was, suspect it was just a bar fight.

I think but not sure that the Canadian was a journalist.

Any one else remember this ??

Yes, I recall something about that too. I'm beginning to wonder if some of these stories got mixed up in the version I heard.It seems Mekong Bob's statement is definitive about the story an agent killed was in a Chiang Mai bar -- not true.

Edited July 29, 2011 by chaoyang

[Ulysses G.]

There have been no deaths of DEA Special Agents in Chiang Mai, 1970s to present. There was a daytime shooting in a Thai market area in Chiang Mai in the 1980s, resulting in death of the wife of a DEA Special Agent. Motive unknown.

There may have been an altercation or two on the Chiang Mai bar scene over the years which involved DEA Special Agents carrying handguns. No injuries, no deaths, no physical damage.

I recall an incident about 1990 in the bar beer centre involving 2 DEA who pulled guns and shot a visiting Canadian.

If I recall correctly they and their families were out of Thailand within 24hrs and nothing much happened after that.

Not sure what the problem was, suspect it was just a bar fight.

I think but not sure that the Canadian was a journalist.

Any one else remember this ??

The bar beer centre did not exist in 1990, but several years later a DEA agent pulled a gun on the Canadian running the boxing ring at BBC and had to leave the country immediately - he was pissed off about the blind kids boxing show. However, he did not shoot anybody.

I am pretty sure that this is the incident that you are refering to.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[chaoyang]

Interesting how these stories become more colorful over time as they are retold. I guess late-night patrons of the Bar Beer Center with several bottles of Mekhong whisky in them would not make the best witnesses in any event .

OK, here's another one: The so-called earthquake monitoring center on Doi Suthep is actually run by US military intelligence to monitor China. That's another rumor I heard many times.

[philw]

Interesting how these stories become more colorful over time as they are retold. I guess late-night patrons of the Bar Beer Center with several bottles of Mekhong whisky in them would not make the best witnesses in any event .

OK, here's another one: The so-called earthquake monitoring center on Doi Suthep is actually run by US military intelligence to monitor China. That's another rumor I heard many times.

I've heard the same.

[Paagai]

OK, here's another one: The so-called earthquake monitoring center on Doi Suthep is actually run by US military intelligence to monitor China. That's another rumor I heard many times.

Umm, these days you don't need people sat up a mountain to monitor earthquakes! There is a whole worldwide network of seismographs which are unattended and remotely operated with data transmission by satellite in more remote areas. The information from them is available to relevant government and university departments all over the world instantaneously. That suggests if they are monitoring something it probably ain't earthquakes :whistling:

[OriginalPoster]

OK, here's another one: The so-called earthquake monitoring center on Doi Suthep is actually run by US military intelligence to monitor China. That's another rumor I heard many times.

Umm, these days you don't need people sat up a mountain to monitor earthquakes! There is a whole worldwide network of seismographs which are unattended and remotely operated with data transmission by satellite in more remote areas. The information from them is available to relevant government and university departments all over the world instantaneously. That suggests if they are monitoring something it probably ain't earthquakes :whistling:

Well, that certainly proves that the Americans are up to no good once again. Amazing who much insight people sitting in bars have into worldwide intelligence operations. Lots of experts in all fields of science sitting in those bars too.

Edited July 29, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[chaoyang]

I would think you would still need onsite people to maintain, calibrate, etc., the equipment at seismic monitoring stations.

I do know that it is there and is manned by a couple of US military personnel.

[chaoyang]

Sorry, just a followup:

From the US Consulate in Chiang Mai website:

Among the US government personnel stationed in Chiang Mai, "a US Air Force detachment monitors seismic activity in conjunction with the Royal Thai Navy".

[SteeleJoe]

There was a daytime shooting in a Thai market area in Chiang Mai in the 1980s, resulting in death of the wife of a DEA Special Agent. Motive unknown.

Great post.

I remember that as well. If my memoery serves, I thought that had been attributed (accurately or not) to Khun Sa's organization...

[Johpa]

There was a daytime shooting in a Thai market area in Chiang Mai in the 1980s, resulting in death of the wife of a DEA Special Agent. Motive unknown.

I was living in and around Chiang Mai throughout most of the 1980s and don't recall any such an event. I use to share drinks with the US Naval Attache in Chiang Mai and we talked candidly about lots of current events and don't recall any such incident. But I do know that my sister-in-law's Thai husband, well actually she was a mia noi, worked undercover for a joint DEA-BPP unit and was shot and murdered along with a partner back in the early 1990s up in the Chiang Dao. And there was the somewhat disheveled and a bit crazy American who disappeared after he kept getting into too arguments with a local bar owner, a Thai man who was friends to many of the old timers here, including myself. But methinks all this talk about DEA agents is nonsense as those guys usually keep a very low profile indeed.

[chaoyang]

I was living in and around Chiang Mai throughout most of the 1980s and don't recall any such an event. I use to share drinks with the US Naval Attache in Chiang Mai and we talked candidly about lots of current events and don't recall any such incident. But I do know that my sister-in-law's Thai husband, well actually she was a mia noi, worked undercover for a joint DEA-BPP unit and was shot and murdered along with a partner back in the early 1990s up in the Chiang Dao. And there was the somewhat disheveled and a bit crazy American who disappeared after he kept getting into too arguments with a local bar owner, a Thai man who was friends to many of the old timers here, including myself. But methinks all this talk about DEA agents is nonsense as those guys usually keep a very low profile indeed.

The killing of the DEA agent's wife is noted by several sources found on the internet (as well as Mekong Bob here who I suspect knows what he's talking about).

She was apparently taken hostage, put into a song thaew and taken to a market. One version of the story I saw said the hostage taker and the wife were confronted by police and his gun went off, possibly accidentally, killing her. It was also noted that there were suspicions it was an act of revenge organized by Kuhn Sa.

An account of this was among the material that came out about William Young when he recently passed away. He was working with the DEA at the time and the husband of the slain woman was his good friend, the account said.

[Blinky Bill]

I thought the incident involving the wife of a DEA agent took place in front of the Samut Hotel on Ratphakinai Road. She was indeed abducted and held by the gunman, they were surrounded by a group of at least a 10 members of the Thai Police, the woman was shot and killed by the gunmen who was then shot at least 60 times resulting in his death. This incident was, as already mentioned, attributed to Khun Sa apparently.

After this incident around 1980 security was stepped up somewhat for all DEA personal and their families, they were all moved into a secure compound and family members were somewhat restricted in their movements. One of the DEA agents was a very active member of the Chiang Mai Hash House Harriers during the early 1980's. He was a very nice guy indeed.

For many years, since the late 1980's the US Air Force has had a long, continuous association with the Royal Thai Navy Seismic base about 1 km up the hill from Chiang Mai Zoo. At times 6 or so US Air Force personal were on duty there, some of these guys were also keen members of the CMHHH. Which reminds me, the radar installation on Doi Intanon was built by the US Air Force during the Vietnam conflict, it was and still is known as Fantasea (pronounced Fanta-See-Ah) Radar, it is still active and operated by the Royal Thai Air Force.

The incident regarding Canadian Joe, the founder of Joe's Gym, did take place at the Bar Beer Centre on Moon Muang Road but it was mid 1990's. The DEA agent who pulled his shooter and threatened Joe was on a plane out of Thailand within 48 hours. Joe continued on in Chiang Mai for a few more years but eventually went back to Canada to join in the family business, a rather large and successful hardware company.

Speaking of the Bar Beer Centre, there was also Munich Rudi, the husband of Blue Sky Nu. He went back to Munich to collect some money that was owed to him by some "business associates". He was found in a park with a syringe of high grade heroine stuck in his arm and and suffering from a rather serious case of death. No need to mention what business he was involved in.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Blinky Bill

[elektrified]

The killing of the DEA agent's wife is noted by several sources found on the internet (as well as Mekong Bob here who I suspect knows what he's talking about).

I suspect he knows what he's talking about as well.

[chaoyang]

<snip>

The incident regarding Canadian Joe, the founder of Joe's Gym, did take place at the Bar Beer Centre on Moon Muang Road but it was mid 1990's. The DEA agent who pulled his shooter and threatened Joe was on a plane out of Thailand within 48 hours. Joe continued on in Chiang Mai for a few more years but eventually went back to Canada to join in the family business, a rather large and successful hardware company.

Speaking of the Bar Beer Centre, there was also Munich Rudi, the husband of Blue Sky Nu. He went back to Munich to collect some money that was owed to him by some "business associates". He was found in a park with a syringe of high grade heroine stuck in his arm and and suffering from a rather serious case of death. No need to mention what business he was involved in.

Is this the same boxing teacher who married Skipper's old girlfriend (from the Moon Garden Bar)? Did she go back to Canada too?

I also knew Nu rather well (which says something about my lifestyle -- good ol' Blue Sky open 24 hours). How is she these days?

[Johpa]

The killing of the DEA agent's wife is noted by several sources found on the internet (as well as Mekong Bob here who I suspect knows what he's talking about).

I suspect he knows what he's talking about as well.

It may be as I found references to an event in 1980, a year before I first arrived in Chiang Mai.

By the way, I am acquainted with a Bob in Bangkok who spent considerable time on the other side of the Mae Khong in even earlier decades, but I would be gobsmacked if he were actually posting here.

[Paagai]

I would think you would still need onsite people to maintain, calibrate, etc., the equipment at seismic monitoring stations.

I do know that it is there and is manned by a couple of US military personnel.

I certainly know of two seismic monitoring stations in Italy that are completely automatic. Large block of concrete in an underground chamber on special mountings with associated seismometers attached. some electronics housed in an adjacent building, and a satellite dish for communication complete the setup. Battery powered and charged via solar panels. Maybe gets maintenance 3-4 times per year otherwise completely unattended.

Maybe the equipment on Doi Suthep is older and not autonomous needing human intervention, or maybe these "military personnel" do other things too......................

[OriginalPoster]

I would think you would still need onsite people to maintain, calibrate, etc., the equipment at seismic monitoring stations.

I do know that it is there and is manned by a couple of US military personnel.

I certainly know of two seismic monitoring stations in Italy that are completely automatic. Large block of concrete in an underground chamber on special mountings with associated seismometers attached. some electronics housed in an adjacent building, and a satellite dish for communication complete the setup. Battery powered and charged via solar panels. Maybe gets maintenance 3-4 times per year otherwise completely unattended.

Maybe the equipment on Doi Suthep is older and not autonomous needing human intervention, or maybe these "military personnel" do other things too......................

What a thing to try to turn into a conspiracy theory. Nothing more refreshing than a know-it-all making random accusations.

[Blinky Bill]

What a thing to try to turn into a conspiracy theory. Nothing more refreshing than a know-it-all making random accusations.

Well, I guess that's better than an ignorant imbecile making inane posts.

[Blinky Bill]

What a thing to try to turn into a conspiracy theory. Nothing more refreshing than a know-it-all making random accusations.

Well, I guess that's better than an ignorant imbecile making inane posts.

And I'm double posting this to build up my post count. Gotta make 3,000 before I get banned again.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Blinky Bill

[OriginalPoster]

What a thing to try to turn into a conspiracy theory. Nothing more refreshing than a know-it-all making random accusations.

Well, I guess that's better than an ignorant imbecile making inane posts.

OK, I stand corrected, indeed the CIA and Illuminati must be running that place. Amazing all the things that people sitting in bars know.

[chaoyang]

What a thing to try to turn into a conspiracy theory. Nothing more refreshing than a know-it-all making random accusations.

Well, I guess that's better than an ignorant imbecile making inane posts.

OK, I stand corrected, indeed the CIA and Illuminati must be running that place. Amazing all the things that people sitting in bars know.

It ain't only a seismic station, OK?

People can discuss what is likely going on without being accused of being conspiracy theory nutcases. In fact, the "conspiracy theory" term that's trotted out all the time originated with the JFK assassination, and as time passes and more is revealed, it is clear the critics of the Warren Commission were right.

It doesn't take six air force personnel to run an earthquake monitoring station. My suspicion is that originally they were watching for underground nuclear tests by China, but then it could be some sort of communications spying operation. Don't know for sure, of course. It's a secret after all.

[Paagai]

I would think you would still need onsite people to maintain, calibrate, etc., the equipment at seismic monitoring stations.

I do know that it is there and is manned by a couple of US military personnel.

I certainly know of two seismic monitoring stations in Italy that are completely automatic. Large block of concrete in an underground chamber on special mountings with associated seismometers attached. some electronics housed in an adjacent building, and a satellite dish for communication complete the setup. Battery powered and charged via solar panels. Maybe gets maintenance 3-4 times per year otherwise completely unattended.

Maybe the equipment on Doi Suthep is older and not autonomous needing human intervention, or maybe these "military personnel" do other things too......................

What a thing to try to turn into a conspiracy theory. Nothing more refreshing than a know-it-all making random accusations.

So, are you saying I'm wrong and unattended seismographs don't exist, or were you just trolling?

[SteeleJoe]

People can discuss what is likely going on without being accused of being conspiracy theory nutcases.

I agree.

In fact, the "conspiracy theory" term that's trotted out all the time originated with the JFK assassination...

Not sure that's true.

...and as time passes and more is revealed, it is clear the critics of the Warren Commission were right.

Be that as it may (or not), what does that prove? Nothing. Being critical of the Warren Commission or disbelieving some or all of its report obviously does zero to legitimize any other Conspiracy Theory nor does it render the use of that term for what is a very real phenomena (centuries old), studied by social scientists and the like, as less than legitimate and useful in many cases and under certain conditions of the definition.

[chaoyang]

Be that as it may (or not), what does that prove? Nothing. Being critical of the Warren Commission or disbelieving some or all of its report obviously does zero to legitimize any other Conspiracy Theory nor does it render the use of that term for what is a very real phenomena (centuries old), studied by social scientists and the like, as less than legitimate and useful in many cases and under certain conditions of the definition.

Blah blah, blah.

My point is: be careful what is called a conspiracy theory -- a way overused term, incidentally -- because it could well be the truth.

[SteeleJoe]

Blah blah, blah.

Wow. That's real maturity and class. And clever too. Excellent refutation of my points. (Personally I'd be genuinely embarrassed to make a response like that and wouldn't subsequently expect to be taken seriously or as someone who was interested in a reasonable exchange of views -- clearly you aren't the latter).

My point is: be careful what is called a conspiracy theory -- a way overused term, incidentally -- because it could well be the truth.

It is overused -- as are whole lot of simplistic ideas -- among them the sorts embraced by Conspiracy Theorists; but by definition, Conspiracy Theories, in the sense that we are using the term, are not "the truth". (Perhaps you yourself are guilty of using the term too freely -- not every theory explaining what might have happened or be happening that differs from the "official story" is a Conspiracy Theory).