Friend Unwisely Turned Down Payment For Accident

[thailoneus]

A note to the forum admins.

I hope I am not violating forum rules. This post is simply a view from the heart. Not a promo for fund raising. I do not personally know NancyL, nor the lady in need.

Dear TV members,

I am offering this real life story…….and I hope you read the whole post.

I was in my 20's. One cold wintry night, I was in a line at a pharmacy. There was a guy, about 25, ahead of me. When it came to his turn,the pharmacist placed his medicines on the counter and then I heard this guy say to the pharmacist,,, "Oh, I am not rich",….. and he walked away. He had to have been ill. He had to have visited a doctor to receive a prescription, and came to the pharmacy to get the drugs. But, he didn't have enough money to pay for his medicines. By the time I reacted to this incident, he was gone…without his prescription drugs. I ran out but couldn't find him. All I wanted to do was say to him "Come back and get your medicine, I'll pay for it". But I didn't react fast enough…….. 40 years on, I still think of this with much regret.

Some stats on threads on TV fyi….

• Where is gold going in this market - 102000 views….. 5000 reply's.
• Totenham Thread - 75,000 views…. 5000 reply's.
• Manchester United - 122,000 views…6000 reply's.
• Honda CBR - 175000 views… 3000 reply's.

This thread is worth a mention…

Have you become a recluse in Thailand – 6500 views…. 100 reply's.

The reply's appear frank and what I gather from them are:

• There are lots of decent expats with 'heart' living here
• Most don't want to get involved with others
• You have lived good lives in the past and whatever your reasoning, have made an intelligent decision to live in Thailand
• You do have sufficient funds to look after yourself
• There are 'well off' and 'not so well off' expats

An expat in Thailand is in need. Does it really matter whether she did the right things or not regarding her personal finances? She is in trouble. Can happen to any one of us. Someone called Nancy is spending her time and money to help her. This thread which she started (as of 4am today) has approx. 2000 views and 40 reply's. Of those, I figure about 5…..FIVE!! people are trying to help Nancy help her friend. (I hope there are more donors in the background). The above stats indicate that there are at least, over 200,000 expats here.

Why am I writing this? ………I think of my story at the top of this/mypost………. I think of Nancy trying to help someone in need. (I can't believe that she stood in a mall trying to get donors!!)

It doesn't matter whether we are well off or not. We can all contribute something towards this cause.

I encourage you to make a donation anonymously. Then go havea beer or whatever and "think and simply feel good that you did something great for a fellow human being". Guaranteed….the reward will be exhilarating, and youwill walk tall.

Edited July 31, 2011 by sbk

[NancyL]

Thanks Thailoneus for some excellent observations. Yes, we all have priorities and others may not agree with our choices. Perhaps you have given some people pause to think about theirs. Yes, it's a fairly small group that has stepped forward already with financial help. One is a friend of mine doesn't know the lady in question and expressed some of the negative opinions that I knew this thread would generate. He came to me yesterday and pressed 1000 baht note in my hand, saying he came to his senses as he was contemplating a nice evening out on the town. Instead he ate street food and helped someone he didn't know.

My friend in need has had many visitors; she knows many people, but few are assisting financially. I think some will help out by assisting with her rehabilitation.

Her situation should give all of us pause to think about our own situation and how many of our "friends" are really acquaintences.

I hope the lady in need's family reconsiders their estrangement. I know that I felt much better when I overcame my resentments with my parents and helped them in the last few years of their lives. It was good that they went out with us on good terms.

Oh, and just to clarify, I wasn't "standing around a mall soliciting donations". I know many, many older expat ladies in CM. All I have to do is sit in the food court at Tops at KSK in the afternoon and I can have conversations with 5 or 6 people I know within an hour. That's what I was doing. My friend was in surgery at the time and I figured I'd do more good at KSK, talking with people, instead of just waiting around in the hopsital.

[thaiphoon]

The moderators/administrators have been discussing this thread and, whilst we have sympathy for the victim, discussion of fund raising activities is against the forum rules.

However, we will allow this thread to remain open, for the time being, on the basis that it is used as a mechanism to update members on the victim’s progress.

Furthermore, should members wish to nominate a Thaivisa member to spearhead a fundraising scheme, we will allow that member name to be posted on the forum. All further discussion about fund raising should be done through the nominated member by PM (additional members can be added to the PM thread). Any further posts on this subject in the open forum will be removed without notice.

Thank you for your understanding and co-operation.

//Admin

NancyL has agreed to act as fundraising co-ordinator. All future discussion on this matter/contributions with Nancy by PM please. Further posts will be removed without warning.

//Admin

[muchogra]

I think that people should really not look at this case with self-righteousness and pragmatism. Rather, my point of view is that the TV members here which comprise mostly foreigners can be looked at as a small foreign community in Thailand even though most of us don't know each others in person. I recall one poster once said the farangs should really try to look out for each others in a foreign country. I think it makes sense.

[thaiphoon]

1 insensitive post and response has been removed.

1 post talking about contributions has also been removed.

[PlanetX]

I think that people should really not look at this case with self-righteousness and pragmatism. Rather, my point of view is that the TV members here which comprise mostly foreigners can be looked at as a small foreign community in Thailand even though most of us don't know each others in person. I recall one poster once said the farangs should really try to look out for each others in a foreign country. I think it makes sense.

I completely agree that a small community should look after one another

My biggest issue with this particular incident is the individual came to a country that has the 2nd most tourist/ foreigner deaths by road accident in the world without insurance, healthcare, financial nest egg and has not paid enough into their own country's medicare and certaintly has not paid anything into Thailands and then friends want to bail her out.

All power to them but I don't feel bad for someone that has completely neglected any foresight planning into how she will take care of herself in the event of a medical emergency, especially with her older age. That is very selfish.

The expats that are willing to help should also put some money into an informative campaign using this situation as a word of caution for the others that may be in similiar circumstances. It would be a shame to just bail her out and not use it as a learning experience for others.

Being a taxpayer in this country, I also feel justified to say that I would be upset if her hospital bills took up hospital financial resources that would have other wise gone to local Thais. So I applaud the hospital for insisting on 1/2 upfront payment.

[NancyL]

Here's an update on the lady-in-need's recovery status. Today she got up and used the walker to go to the bathroom -- her first time out of bed. Of course, she was screaming the entire time about the pain, but the three caring and patient nurses continued to help her to make this milestone. Now that she's done it, she's very proud of herself.

This afternoon one of the forum sponsors, Butter is Butter donated some food and another business donated the transportation and she enjoyed a large vanilla malted milk shake. She has eaten all that; and says she almost feels normal this afternoon, provided she doesn't try to move!

She will be here for another day or two and is able to see visitors. She's not shy about asking you to go if she's tired.

That vanilla malted milkshake really popular. I expect she'd welcome another if you come to visit. A vanilla shake from other places would probably be appreciated as well.

Edited July 31, 2011 by NancyL

[Joop50]

All I can do is listen to my heart and there is compassion (or better love) for this woman although I don't know her nor Nancy. I am just touched by this story. Besides I am not interested in the lady's background, (what she should or shouldn't have done) she has problems now and that;s all that counts.

Anyone can bring up arguments to justify their opinion against this but you must be very insensitive to ventilate it - the way some write it down - in this topic.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Joop50

[pete66]

All I can do is listen to my heart and there is compassion (or better love) for this woman although I don't know her nor Nancy. I am just touched by this story. Besides I am not interested in the lady's background, (what she should or shouldn't have done) she has problems now and that;s all that counts.

Anyone can bring up arguments to justify their opinion against this but you must be very insensitive to ventilate it in this topic.

I can only agree. As the Buddha said (and I paraphrase) "giving (without expecting anything back) is very good for you". Someone mentioned about "what goes around comes around". Well that applies to everyone doesn't it. Having bad intent to someone in a hospital bed with a shattered leg has its own karma attached.

[KayCee]

The one bright spot in the otherwise very sad situation, is that a newcomer to CM like me, now has seen a few people post on here in a way that tells her she would really like to meet them!

And, after where we've just been living, it's not a little wonderful to see Buddha being invoked, if only that appeals to our better nature are almost always helpful.

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as the quoted post had been snipped to respond to particular part of the post, however punctuation marks for emphasis then altered the quoted post. It's ok to <snip> parts of a post to remove what you don't want to reply to, however do not add font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording (or in this case punctuation marks).

[NancyL]

Our lady-in-need is recovering remarkably well. She now can travel to the bathroom with the assistance of just one person. She is doing her PT and has a few wonderful friends who know about PT and are right there with her, making sure she does it properly and as often as prescribed.

She remains in the hospital and probably will for at least a few more days. The small group around her is trying to figure out where would be the best place for her to go during her rehab period. Right now she's welcoming visitors at Rajavej Hospital. Please don't bring food unless she has specifically requested it (maybe you can call ahead to see what she'd like). Many people are bringing things she wouldn't have eaten even when she was healthy and all she's doing is trying to give it to other visitors and the staff. Vanilla malted milkshakes are always accepted. No need to call ahead about those.

It seems like she's going to recover and be able to get around, but perhaps will have to use a walker. She's a feisty lady, with a lot of determination. Have you ever noticed that many older people seem to be like that? I've often wondered if it's because people become more feisty as they get older, but as I age, I'm beginning to think that people who are naturally feisty (from an early age) are better able to push themselves and do the things they need to do to live to a ripe old age.

I'll try to craft a PM to everyone who has PM'd me about the "subject that can't be mentioned."

[NancyL]

I'm sorry, but I just haven't had the time to send out a group PM to everyone who sent me a PM about "the subject that can't be discussed". I am responding to individual PMs with the details you need to get the ball rolling, but I haven't had a chance to update everyone on the progress.

I chewed up yesterday evening trying to contact the lady-in-need's U.S. credit union to find out why her card is frozen. After dealing with the voicemail tree from hell and a 45 minutes wait to talk with a real person, I learned they won't talk to me (even though I had all her secret codeword stuff) unless she was on the line. Yeah, at 12:30 am our time! The WiFi in the hospital isn't good and my AIS doesn't seem to work there, so I guess that call's going to have to wait until she returns home and we can be together in a room with a good internet connection for my internet phone. Fortunately, she says the balance in that account is low, but I do need a conduit for U.S. banking.

Today I'm off to her local bank to handle details of rent, utilities and then off to immigration for her 90 day report.

Sigh -- I can really see how just one caregiver could get totally run down. I'm handling the financial and administrative details. Other friends are handling contact with the doctors, taking care of her condo and being sure she does her physical therapy homework correctly and often. It's good to have a small team in place to handle these things.

So, to all those who have PM'd, I apologize that I haven't gotten back to you for an update about "the subject that can't be mentioned". We're not out of the woods yet in that regard.

[thaimiller]

You may want to tell her about the new health insurance plan that AA has that you can pay monthly, very good cover and it isn't that expensive when you pay over 12 months. Just a thought for anyone struggling a bit but still would like the piece of mind that insurance gives. Hope she is doing well and recovering.

[NancyL]

You may want to tell her about the new health insurance plan that AA has that you can pay monthly, very good cover and it isn't that expensive when you pay over 12 months. Just a thought for anyone struggling a bit but still would like the piece of mind that insurance gives. Hope she is doing well and recovering.

What are the age limitations for this policy? I'm not aware of any health insurance policy you can buy in Thailand if you move here over the age of 75. Yes, there are some you can keep as a continuing customer above that age, but you have to start them at a younger age.

Today, in a visit to Bangkok Bank, I learned of a new accident insurance plan they have, for customers age 50 - 100. The cost of the highest level of coverage is about 5200 baht/year. I don't have the details (and couldn't find them on their English language website), but if my friend had this policy in force at the time of the accident about 1/3 of her hospital bill would have been paid and she'd have 20,000 baht/month available for home nursing upon discharge. The lady at the bank said this is a brand new policy and encouraged me to spread the word among the retired foreign community. Unfortunately, their flyer is in Thai, but she said the policy is available to foreigners, too. This isn't as good as full health insurance coverage, but the cost is cheap and accidents are a leading cause of hospitalizations here.

I discovered something else new to me at Bangkok Bank today. Did you know that their ATM machines will suck up the card if you fail to remove it within a few seconds of the transaction being complete? That happened to me today as I was fumbling with my handbag. So now I've "lost" the lady-in-need's ATM card. Well not really -- it is safe and secure, but they won't give it back to me. She has to come into the bank along with her passport. She was very understanding, saying "oh that happens to me all the time. It's a real pain because you can't get the card until the next day and you have to remember to bring your passport." I can still use a withdrawal slip, but that sucked up ATM card is just one more thing to add to the "to-do list"

[JUDAS]

NancyL reminds me of a conversation my wife and I had a few days ago about some of the disappointment she's felt with some so-called friends over the years. We agreed that, a true friend is not someone you need to ask for help but, someone who runs to you offering to do whatever they can to help.

NancyL personifies our definition of a "true friend"

PM sent ( well, in the next five minutes )

[NancyL]

My friend continues to improve. She says that each trip to the bathroom is getting easier and I didn't here her cry out in pain a single time when I was there, even during the trip to the bathroom. She needs help, of course, but the improvement is steady and much quicker than I would have thought. Other friends are working on the interface with her doctors and PT people. It looks like she'll be able to move from the hospital in a few days and we need to come up with a plan for her continuing rehab.

I just got home and need to eat and look at the other emails and make a few phone calls. I hope to update the folks who have PM'd me tonight with the progress of "the subject that cannot be mentioned".

[NancyL]

This will probably be my last update, unless others want to use this thread to discuss the original topic. The lady in need is recovering nicely and will probably be discharged in a few days. We think she'll do her initial rehab at home, but that isn't finalized. What happens long-term depends upon how independent she'll be after recovery.

Meanwhile, I'll continue the PM thread about the subject-that-can't-be mentioned. It looks good for the hospitalization and now we're focused on rehab.

[muchogra]

Re: "I discovered something else new to me at Bangkok Bank today. Did you know that their ATM machines will suck up the card if you fail to remove it within a few seconds of the transaction being complete?..."

My wife's visa card with our daughter at Morgan Chase got sucked up. She was too busy looking at the receipt if B150 was charged when she tested it at Aeon after I told her the fee might be waived. She had to call the daughter to cancel the card and reissue and mail to here. Yes, be careful to avoid cumbersome work.

NancyL, glad your friend is recovering nicely.

I think we all should think how many true friends we do have living our lives.

[realthaideal]

For all the naysayers and quibblers out there, we can see that this lady has her lot in life and it is what it is. There are 'stark reality' aspects to it, and yet there are also entirely other aspects about who she is and what she means to so many people and the community here. Despite it being much more touchy-feely and less tenuous a safety net, many many good folks have stepped forward, each contributing what they can to look after this kind-hearted and colorful woman. This type of approach/ and good luck is not for everyone and should not simply be 'hoped for' as a reasonable plan in advanced years, but clearly good people do step up for other good people. That that happens is not a terrible thing or about being a burden - it's about friendship, caring and community. Others have asked what she contributes at her age and income level.... well, she contributes plenty and is genuinely loved and appreciated just for being who she is. Good things do happen. And it's nice to see all of the genuine concern and effort coming together to see that she gets back on track as soon as possible. Out of a potentially bad story I actually see a great heart-warming story in these otherwise gloomy and not-so-remarkable times.

[NancyL]

Re: "I discovered something else new to me at Bangkok Bank today. Did you know that their ATM machines will suck up the card if you fail to remove it within a few seconds of the transaction being complete?..."

My wife's visa card with our daughter at Morgan Chase got sucked up. She was too busy looking at the receipt if B150 was charged when she tested it at Aeon after I told her the fee might be waived. She had to call the daughter to cancel the card and reissue and mail to here. Yes, be careful to avoid cumbersome work.

NancyL, glad your friend is recovering nicely.

I think we all should think how many true friends we do have living our lives.

I just realized why it is that sometimes a Thai person in the line behind me at an ATM will reach around and grab my card out of the machine and hand it to me with a smile while I fumble with my handbag after the transaction is complete. I always thought they were just impatient and wanted me to get out of the way so they could do their transaction. Now I know they knew the machine would suck up the card and wanted to help me out.

Edited August 5, 2011 by NancyL

[NancyL]

Our friend was discharged from the hospital today and is happy to accept visitors to her condo. I'd suggest you call ahead because she lives in a studio condo and has a 24 hr nursing assistant for a week or two (thanks TV members). The place can become crowded in a hurry. The little circle of friends who are helping her discussed who should co-ordinate visitors, so she'll have someone around in case she has trouble understanding the Thai nursing assistant's English (she's somewhat deaf). The lady piped up and said "I'll co-ordinate my visitors, thank you!"