Thai Dog Whisperer

[Nienke]

He was taken from a temple in Bangkok when he was only a few weeks old by a group of bikers and was given to me when his then owner could no longer take care of him. He had been shot in the head when he was about a year old, which blinded him in one eye and some of the pellets are still lodged in his skull and under his skin...

... He is also at his most temperamental during electrical storms which can obviously happen at any time, when we may not be there to intervene.

Could it be a medical problem with these pellets in his head? Like a tumor in the brain can also cause sudden behavioral changes.

And/or,

- the other dog was standing on the blind-eye-side of the BK?

- Rabies vaccine can cause behavioral changes, although that's more a switch between sudden high confidence (aggression) to extreme fear (aggression).

- impaired thyroid (hypo-thyroidism) can also be a cause of aggressive behavior in a dog.

- the dog hasn't learned bite inhibition and proper dog language as a puppy?

Just curious what your thoughts are on this.

[LeCharivari]

I've though about it all long and hard, Nienke, as I'd love to be able to take off his muzzle all the time - he's such a great dog for so much of the time that I feel really guilty about it. I can put up with being bitten, but I just can't take the risk with the other dogs or with people. I think that In the UK I'd legally have been obliged to have had him put down, but that just wasn't an option as it would have meant my losing two dogs instead of one.

The biggest problem is that apart from the weather (when there's an electrical storm) there's absolutely no pattern to it, except that he's less confident in the dark - he doesn't go to the gate when we come back at night, although he does if anyone or anything else comes anywhere near our property.

I have had some experience with people who have been shot or blown up/had traumatc injuries, and some of the symptoms are much the same so I am not too surprised - after all, at least you can rationalise and discuss things with people, which I can't do with him.

I am sure the pellets in the head, possibly the brain, could be having some effect but it is difficult to know just what. The metal could be connected with the reaction to electrical storms, but a number of dogs can "feel" storms coming. I can't see much point in trying to have them removed as brain surgery on dogs is hardly the sort of thing I would like to have pioneered by a local vet here, so he is pretty well stuck with them.

The other dog was actually on his "good" side - this doesn't seem to make much difference to him as he has adjusted quite well to having only one eye and he walks on either side of me. I always make sure anyone coming here knows and avoids his blind side, but when he's in a good mood it doesn't matter.

All the problems started after he was shot, but that also coincided with his "maturing", so again its hard to tell.

Happily for all of us he has accepted the muzzle and just got used to it - so much so that when it gets changed at "shower time" he will even put his nose into the clean muzzle when its held in front of him. I wish I knew of another solution, but as there's no recognisable pattern to it I just can't think of one.

[bangkaew]

The problem with the "Dog Whisperer" and similar series is that although it is great "infotainment" and his methods are very effective it gives the impression that it is quick and simple once you know the right techniques - sometimes it is (after all, most dogs want to please their owners as that is what they have been bred to do) but often it takes not just knowledge but a lot of time, hard work and perseverance and sometimes there is no ideal solution or outcome.

With one of my dogs, much to my regret, I have no option but to keep him permanently muzzled (except for once a week when all the dogs get a shampoo and his muzzle gets changed for a clean one). Its far from a perfect solution for him or us, but its the best of a number of bad options.

He is a large, black Bang-kaew who is a really super dog - for more than 90% of the time he is playful (with us and the other dogs), happy, friendly (except to strangers), affectionate, gentle and obedient; for most of the rest of the time he is moody but always obedient. Unfortunately for 1% of the time he is totally unpredictable, changing from friendly to vicious (and back again) in a second for no apparent reason and with no provocation. On one occasion, which resulted in his having to be muzzled, all our dogs were sitting at the gate when we drove back to the house, with the normal barking and tail wagging. They quietened down as usual as the gate was opened when, right in front of us and without any provocation or warning, he turned to the dog near him and tore his throat open with one bite (the dog died in my lap within 5 minutes).

He was taken from a temple in Bangkok when he was only a few weeks old by a group of bikers and was given to me when his then owner could no longer take care of him. He had been shot in the head when he was about a year old, which blinded him in one eye and some of the pellets are still lodged in his skull and under his skin.

Could he be better trained? Impossible to tell - sometimes he will go for weeks without any sign of aggression whatsoever, so it is impossible to train aggression out if he doesn't show it. He is also at his most temperamental during electrical storms which can obviously happen at any time, when we may not be there to intervene.

My point is that there is often no "quick fix" and sometimes there is no perfect solution for either the owner or the dog - all you can do under those circumstances is try to do what is best for both you and the dog.

Respect for keeping this dog on LeCharivari

[LeCharivari]

Don't get me wrong -its not being soft!

He's a really, really super dog most of the time, with the gentlest eyes (OK, only left eye now!) you could ever see. I just wish I knew of a better option.

[bina]

He had been shot in the head when he was about a year old, which blinded him in one eye and some of the pellets are still lodged in his skull and under his skin

im with nienke on this one: definately sounds like neurological damage causing 'rage' attacks similar to people who have had head injuries (have a cousin in law that as a child suffered from head injury after being hit by a car and he sufffers from unpredictable rage attacks with no apparent trigger and quick resolving to reverting back to being a fun loving guy.. its wierd.

could be that with changes in barometer pressure in cranium the bullets get pushed or touch areas of the brain that are connected to fear or anger or andernalin secreting areas... speculation but it certainly would be interesting enough to , in the far far future when he is demised , get him to a vet school for getting his brain checked. could make good info for future use in dog behavior/people behaavior...

my lhasa also seems to suffer from some sort of neurological neuralgia based rage attacks: when touched or shaved on certain areas of his body he loses it, attacking whatever is nearest to him, including, often, himself. he has seslf inflicted bites on his legs from when after i groomed/shaved him down so ive learned to leave his sensitve areas furred. he looks horrible but is less psychotic after a groom. the neuraliga is the result of a horrible dog attack on him (he was caught between three to five dogs pulling on him like a toy, and although the bites werent large, they were deep and the vet feels there was nerve damage. fortunately he is small but he also absolutely cannot be muzzled, but has reached the point where he will automatically go to his bed sometimes during , sometimes after and sometimes at the start of an attack. (conditioned by me to 'go to bed' because he cannot be handled when he is in psychotic mode). his attacks are often followed by epileptic behavior (jaw rattled, drooling, shivering) but recovery tme is almost instant, not having the usual disorientation time of a dog with other type sof epilepsy.

jsut as with people i am finding more and more connection between physical wellbeing and behavior: having sufferred chronic facial pain for the past two months due to a wrongly diagnosed tooth problem, i ahve found that my usual placid and jai yen personality has signifigantly changed to one of short temper, little patience and quckness to anger - and i work in tourist industry-- and i am aware of the connection between pain and temperment but i actually feel changes in my heart beat level and hormonal changes due to this.

sometimes its just better for all around to do damage reduciton rather then attempt to totally retrain/condition/rehabilitate a n animal.... there is a training curve that each person has along with the dog. muzzling keeps the dog alive and happy with no bitten up dogs or kids, and has gotten as much training behavior shaping as possible, then that is the limit. not all people can manage living like this hwoever. we do. we have house rules for strange men *caucasions* coming to visit; and when needed, just physcially remove foofoo from 'situations' that coould possible resulst in bites/rages. his bad start as a too young pup raised on goat teats and the behavioral problems that came with him for the most part sorted out until hist getting bitten up happened. then regression and bizare behavior. it would be fascinating if it wasnt also a such a pain in the butt dealing with a psychotic dog.

quick cures in dog training are for specific problems: stealing socks, not heeling, jumping on the kids. rather like short term psychological treatment for a specific problem in a child's behavior: fear of tests, teenage worries, etc. that is what the 'dog whisperere' does. he fixes specific problems. so the ideas are good.

its not always just the owners' fault nor is it just the dog's genetic make up , backround, or breed. sometimes the synergy betwene a simple behavioral action, genetics (breed types) and the specific owner/area/house = problem but in an other house/different owner, there would not be a problem or would not be considered a problem.

a neuropsyschiatrist once told me that often parents dont see problems in their children because the child is similar to the parent: my in laws have four pathologically shy/selective mutism , quiet children, but then again the parents are very quiet, slow moving and shy also so they dont see it as aproblem. i would have id'd that as problematic right away if i had a non verbal withdrawn child as i am very verbal. same goes for pet owners.

ooooooooooops. rambling at the end of a long day (and horrible toothache)....... well, ya'll get the idea anyhow.

bina

israel

[Nienke]

Thanks LeCharivari for your reply.

Have you asked at the vet uni's in BKK if they could do a brain scan, or talked to a human (and/or veterinarian) brain surgeons or neurological experts? They may come up with some interesting suggestions.

If no full medical check-up is or can be done, I'm afraid behavioral wise you can't do much more than you have already done.

Another option for treatment is homeopathy. But if I remember well you're not so into that? I've seen some remarkable cures in dogs with that, though.

@Bina: please, ramble on. It's always a very pleasant and interesting reading.

[LeCharivari]

@Bina: please, ramble on. It's always a very pleasant and interesting reading.

Ditto - and that particular "ramble" was very true for me too. I wouldn't say that I am always "placid and jai yen" but I definitely have bursts of "short temper, little patience and quickness to anger" when some old injuries are playing up!

I've tried seeking advice from those I know "in the trade", but the problem is that even if a brain scan is done (which is perfectly possible) there is nothing they can do if anything is seen to be wrong so although it may be "interesting" it wouldn't actually achieve anything constructive.

I've got nothing against homeopathy for people or dogs (I've tried it myself!), but the problem again is that its impossible to isolate the problem so you end up treating the symptoms (whenever they occur) not the disease, which is the opposite of what the holistic approach is about.

The biggest problem is the lack of pattern and indicators, which make it impossible to tell if he is "re-habilitated" or not from any possible "treatment". Even if I do take the muzzle and let him play without it occasionally under supervision I would still be very wary of what he was doing and this would almost certainly transmit the wrong signals to him and the other dogs - and that could actually set off a problem, whereas at the moment there aren't any. I'd like him to be back to his old self, unmuzzled and playful all the time, but unfortunately that just isn't going to happen.