How To Take My Daughter Home With Me?

[SiamWallaby]

For the past two years or so, I've been ready to go back home to Australia.

There are a lot of reasons, but primarily because I'd like to work in my field, use my education and

I still have about 10-15 years before I consider retiring. Teaching is fine but I feel I'm wasting my career

experience and post grad education.

Before I lay out the situation, let me say that once I had my daughter, I did try to read up on parental rights of fathers

here on TV and have also visited an attorney in Bangkok.

Since those early days I've felt stuck, as in a "catch 22" situation. As in I can't go home, and if I stay need to jump

through hoops and beg someone to let me stay. Actually, I could leave, but I would have to abandon my daughter.

My first daughter from a previous marriage died at 4 months old, and as I always (since 25 or so) wanted to have a family,

her death hit me hard. Now that I have my daughter, I'm loath to giver her up.

My daughter was surprise, as my and my girlfriend had already broken up. My wonderful teaching job failed to tell me they

didnt pay on school holidays and since I was only a month into the job, going two months without pay really hurt the finances.

My girlfriend smelled it coming and of course ran for the hills, or back to Rayong at least, where I found her.

Then she called and said she had a problem. By then I had a nice new stable job in BKK and when she told me she was having

my baby i was happy and told her I'd love to take care of her. She rang me when she was born, and I drove down to Rayong to

pick her up when she was about 10 days old. She's been with me since and she's just over 2 now.

I only heard from the mother once since then, when she asked me for some money, I wired it to her and havent heard from her since.

At the time I was just happy to have my daughter, and my gratitude is what drove that decision..not the sick buffalo story.

Soon after getting a few thins organized, I read here that I had no parental rights at all. I am of course listed on the birth certificate

as the father, but when the mother handed me the baby I had no idea I should go to the Ampur first and have her legitimize it. Although a

bit concerned about this situation, I figured I had possession, and was the biological father so what did I need to worry about. But I went

and visited an attorney anyway.

He concurred that I do not have any parental rights, but since the mother is who knows where, it shouldnt be a problem. However he can

"fix" the situation for 200k baht. Nice huh. Single father needs to hand over 200k to show he has a right to be the parent when he is already

the de facto sole guardian. Needless to say I didn't think that was fair at all - and I do know the world is not fair.

So time goes on, meet a decent lady and get married. So now it is even more complicated. The complication is actually the in laws.

They treat me really bad, but love my daughter. My wife is caught in the middle and I dont care for it at all. The in laws actually want me

to sign her over to my wife, and they really want to have my daughter for themselves. I know this sounds harsh but observation and overheard

conversations convince me I'd be a fool not to acknowledge that.

My original plan was to wait until my daughter was 6 or so, and try and get her an Australian passport then. I really dont want to wait

four more years, plus I dont think I can take 4 more years of having a daughter (after waiting and wanting so long) who is constantly kept from me

in my own home. Yes they even sometimes punish her for speaking english, fancy that. You are thai they say. I could go on and on about the details

but its not that relevant. Just suffice it to say they have taken over my daughters life and I feel powerless to stop it, and although I love my wife, I'm willing to

leave her if I must protect my daughter from these people who seem to know nothing but nasty behavior.

As far as I know the only thing I can do is pay the 200k to an attorney. I've considered going to teach in China for a year to save up the money, but

I'm pretty convinced when I get back ready to pay the money my daughter will be long gone.

If thats the case I may just have to accept it. I'm not the first man in the world who's lost the right to see their children unfortunately.

Never thought I'd lose her to people who are not even her blood kin though.

I know I need to register her with the embassy. Twice I have made the trip there but have not been able to do so as they were closed for two different reasons both times.

I know if I could find the mother and convince her to help me ...it would make it a lot easier. I've tried for quite a while to find her. I plan on making one more trip down

to rayong to knock on her door one last time. Chances are though she'll insist I sign her over to my thai wife.

I"m at my wits end though, and its effecting my emotional well being more than I care to admit.

I am pretty sure the in laws can not take her away from me legally, but my wife is not about to take my side in any dispute and the neighbors already have changed how they act toward me as well.

I'm concerned, reasonably so I think, that there could be a plan afoot that would involve falsehoods and accusations that would break my heart and at best temporarily separate me from my daughter

and at worst land me in jail until I can pay or prove my innocence. I sure hope its mild paranoia but with honest introspection I do need to be careful.

I'm going to read through these threads again too see if I over looked something, just in case. If anyone has any ideas or advice I would love to hear it.

If not, just be careful you dont get yourself into these situations. And for GODS sakes, be skeptical when told "Its just Thai culture, accept it."

[Dag]

You will not lose her unless you let it happen.

Man up a little bit and grow a set by the sounds of it....you sound like a sissy letting inlaws boss you about and take control of your daughter......christ almighty some people need a leash.

[SiamWallaby]

You will not lose her unless you let it happen.

Man up a little bit and grow a set by the sounds of it....you sound like a sissy letting in laws boss you about and take control of your daughter......christ almighty some people need a leash.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Here's mine: It takes more of a "set" to put up with the cr*p until I can find a solution that doesn't permanently damage my daughter, then it does to simply bugger off n go back home.

Takes a bit of a "set" to swallow my pride and ask for input, advice or even help. At least you were sensible enough to include "sounds like" because the post was already too long that

I didnt include a lot of the other details such as how I confront them regularly, pretty much on a daily basis. These started out very firm but polite but they're getting more nasty as my repeated

warnings go unheeded. As for you Dag, I'm glad you've not been in this situation your self, because I'd wager you'd handle it quite differently with unpredictable results. Thai's in my experience

try to "act" like they have control of their emotions but like most things here, its not what it seems. When they go troppo its not a pretty sight. I prefer to try and use my head first before my fist or boots come out.

[gregb]

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

[SiamWallaby]

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

[SteeleJoe]

I feel for you but it seems to me you've gotten some excellent advice in both posts (though admittedly more so in the latter):

There are definite steps you can and must take. Start them. As the man said (in his high quality post), "The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up."

And Man-Up. Stop letting your in-laws push you around. They constantly keep you from your daughter? Punish her for speaking English? Why stand for that?!

Moreover if your wife is complicit in it at all -- even just by acquiescing to it -- it seems to me that's something you need to recognize and resolve (one way or another). Your wife is not about to take your side in any dispute? Sound to me, frankly, that your problems are not confined to your in-laws or even custody of your daughter...

[gregb]

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

Actually, if you can find your old girlfriend and get an independent, Thai only speaking lawyer, the legal fees may be as little as 15k for an uncontested appearance. The important part is tracking down the mother of your child and getting her before the judge. Once that is done and you have legal custody of your daughter, the world opens up to you.

[Boo]

As you have discovered, you have little rights to your own child so why do you think your inlaws or your new wife have any more than that & allow them to take control of your child?. If it comes to it, leave the home & cut off contact with them. If your wife is allowing them to turn your child against you then she has no feeling for you at all. You need to head off to the embassy with your daughter & get her a passport ASAP & as others have advised start the process to legitimise your child as quickly as possible.

[SiamWallaby]

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

Actually, if you can find your old girlfriend and get an independent, Thai only speaking lawyer, the legal fees may be as little as 15k for an uncontested appearance. The important part is tracking down the mother of your child and getting her before the judge. Once that is done and you have legal custody of your daughter, the world opens up to you.

Thanks again Greg, you're a legend.

I'm actually going to bring the birth certificate with me to Rayong, on the off chance I can grab her by the hair and take her to the ampur and get it sorted there. Doubtful but you never know til you try. ;o)

[SiamWallaby]

I feel for you but it seems to me you've gotten some excellent advice in both posts (though admittedly more so in the latter):

There are definite steps you can and must take. Start them. As the man said (in his high quality post), "The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up."

And Man-Up. Stop letting your in-laws push you around. They constantly keep you from your daughter? Punish her for speaking English? Why stand for that?!

Moreover if your wife is complicit in it at all -- even just by acquiescing to it -- it seems to me that's something you need to recognize and resolve (one way or another). Your wife is not about to take your side in any dispute? Sound to me, frankly, that your problems are not confined to your in-laws or even custody of your daughter...

Ahh..the ol "man up" issue.

My father didn't do a lot for me, but two things he told me I still remember and try to live by:

1) there are three things you can do in any situation - like it, change it, or leave it.

2) ANY action, even the WRONG action, is better than no action at all.

Now I have two posts that say I need to man up, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to play along and honestly ask myself if that is true.

I didnt realize the post sounded so whiny to some people, it was surely not my intent. The details of what the in laws do and my reaction to them I left out as it was already

a really long post.

But no where did I say I let them get away with it. On the contrary, I've taken them to task on pretty much everything.

For example, on the speaking english situation, I caught them verbally reprimanding her (with light slap on hand) and telling her to speak thai when she kept

repeating "flower" because that was the only word for flower she knew. I grabbed my daughter and took her away on the spot. When my wife

got home from work I told her that they need to stop this sort of thing or they will never see her again, and there is no guarantee I will be able

to control my urge to put my foot up their backside. That hasn't happened again since. Explain how I should have handled that better or "man up"

I'll be happy to listen.

I've explained to my wife I dont like her running around nekkid outdoors, even though I know its thai culture to do it. The inlaws let her of course, even

after I've asked. On this one, I decide to choose my battles for the most part and let it slide. Except when I see it, I take her and put clothes back on her, hoping

they will get the message. That was fine for a time, until the day they took the clothes back off just minutes after I'd put the clothes on. Again there I put

my foot down. Not happening again I said, and I'm quite tired of having to threaten them every time, why wont they just simply cooperate? Especially over

a simple matter..I dont want to have a big drama over simple things like that, yet I wont stand for the disrespect either. Again explain how I should handle it differently and

"man up" I'll listen.

Recently, when I woke up, they jumped up from their meal, grabbed my daughter and took her into their room and locked the door. I called at the door ..they ignored it.

So I rapped on the door a bit. See the pattern here? So I've had a gut ful and I'm taking my daughter since I can think of no way to get through to them. My wife says she

understands my view but they are her parents and must be respected. So fine she can take care of them, I will take care of my daughter if thats what it takes.

So I am taking action, after patiently trying to be reasonable and give some latitude due to culture differences. I'm sure I've made some mistakes a long the way

but just saying "MAN UP" is kind of a weak way to try and have a go at someone.

And now that I've "defended" myself lol I probably just cemented your opinion anyway. Ok I'm a EUNUCH lol whatever floats your boat.

The real issue is that I'm taking action and not taking it anymore, starting with getting my daughter legitimized and then away from this situation.

Edited August 2, 2011 by SiamWallaby

[Douggie Style]

Hi Mate,

tried to send a private message but forget how...keep it simple...step by step..u have multiple issues

First I suggest get her an Aust passport then simply leave. You mentioned you are listed as a parent on the birth certificate.

This will have to be done in utmost secrecy, if they get wind of this problems might arise.

Can't remember the rules on this but the following seems to be what I thought was the case

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/how_to_apply/born_overseas/

Australian citizen by birth

Whether you are an Australian citizen by birth depends on the date of your birth.

Most children born in Australia before 20 August 1986 are Australian citizens by birth unless one parent was entitled to diplomatic privileges or was a consular officer of another country.

Children born after that date are only Australian citizens if at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident at the time of their birth.

Children born in Australia to parents who are not Australian citizens or permanent residents, automatically acquire Australian citizenship on their 10th birthday if they have lived most of their life in Australia.

and

Child born overseas to an Australian citizen

Main content

Commonly, if you were born overseas after 26 January 1949 to an Australian citizen parent, you may be eligible to apply for Australian citizenship by descent.

If your responsible parent became an Australian citizen by descent, he or she must have been present in Australia for periods totalling two years at some time in their life.

If you were born outside Australia or New Guinea before 26 January 1949 you may also be eligible for Australian citizenship by descent if at least one of your responsible parents became an Australian citizen on 26 January 1949.

Your Australian citizenship options

Children born overseas to an Australian citizen parent apply for Australian citizenship using Form 118 Application for Australian citizenship by descent.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Douggie Style

[Mario2008]

Just taking the child to Australia is the most stupid thing to do. Legally the OP is not the father of the child, only a care taker with permission of the mother. The mother can claim her child back at any time. If he would go to Australia with the child and the mothe disagrees, he will have to give the child back or face kidnapping charges in Thailand and possibly Australia.

The best thing he can do is follwowing GregB's advice and go for legitimization. As he mentioned, try to convince the mother to cooperate and it might cost around 10,000 to 15,000 and about 2 months to gain parental rights. If she doesn't agree it will be a longer court case, but the outcome will be that he will be recognized as the father.

The inlaws are nothing and have no legal rights towards the child.

Adoption requires permission of both parents of the child, if permisison is not given the court can give permisison to adoption anyway if it is in the best interest of the child.

In the meantime, gather evidence that you are the caretaker of the child andthat her mother has nothing to do with the child. For just in case you will need to fight the childs mother regarding who gets prime custody. But try to convince the mother that she gives you sole custody, otherwise the court will grant shared custody only.

[samran]

Mario's advice is spot on. You can win this, but that requires you to focus and get your ducks lined up in a row.

The inlaws are walking all over you cause, ultimately, you are letting them. Cut them off for now if need be. The priority is your daughter.

Sort out the legitimisation. Go to court if necessary to obtain sole custody. At this point, with your inlaws able to play games, even if your wife loves you, blood can be thicker than water, and that can be used against you down the track. Your daughter, your responsibly. That is it.

Whatever you are doing, it sounds like you are pissing about. Stop it.

Get your daughter her Australian citizenship ASAP. I can't believe you actually left this one hanging. The second my kids Thai documents arrived home from the ampur after they were born the application for their Australian citizenship via descent was lodged at the embassy. If you needed to get out of Thailand at the drop of a hat (for legitimate reasons, I'm not condoning child kidnap here), an Australian passport is essential.

[MikeyIdea]

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

I would do it slightly differently

First I would do a missing persons report on the mother, that you should have done a long time ago by the way. Be careful to state when the mother last had contact with the child, that will be used as evidence in juvenile court

Yes, your rights start with a court case; Negotiations are always better so if you are pretty sure that the mother won't object too much then OK, spend a bit of time finding her. If you think it is unlikely that she will agree to sign over sole custody to you, then you can just go ahead and file where you and the child live now. You would request legitimization and sole custody on the grounds of abandonment... Not shared custody. If you want to bring the child out of Thailand, then you must get sole custody, the mother can veto that you bring the child out of Thailand until she's approx 15 otherwise

The court will send a letter to the mothers registered address, her problem if she comes or not and it looks better for you if she doesn't. You will eventually be granted sole custody if the mother doesn't show up, you're unlikely to be granted it if she does. Juvenile court is all about negotiations, facilitating payment to the mother is not a bad idea. The courts will not remove the mothers custody if she fights to keep it. Mothers visitation rights are almost holy so do not say that you want to leave Thailand with the child, you plan to stay forever is good. You do plan to take your child to visit her relatives in Australia and come back again though, no problems

I would not tell the family anything about legitimization. Most Thais know that mother and father are the only ones with rights, many poorer Thais with low education thinks that father has more rights than mother even. You Are The Father, It Is Your Child and NoOne Except Father And Mother Has Any Rights WhatSoEver To Your Child. End of Story - The in-laws probably don't know that you need to get legitimized but if they do, then just keep quiet for 4 months or so (2 months too short, 3 OK if mother agrees but it will be 4 to 6 if mother doesn't show up). Regardless, they know that they have no rights. If needed, then I would add that if anyone else than father or mother takes the child or denies father or mother access, then it is kidnapping and jail behind bars according to Thai law.

Adoption: I Am The Father And I will Never Accept Anyone To Adopt My Daughter, Full Stop. Turn around and walk out into the kitchen if anyone wants to continue discussing the matter

30 to 50K is possible for a Thai speaking lawyer but it may not be enough if the mother fights. Forget 200K, that's a rip-off. 15K possible if mother agrees

It sounds like you would never accept anyone to adopt your child, I am glad to hear that. Especially considering the history of your first child. It is only fair that you let people know that

Good Luck Proud Daddy

Michael

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted, for not being helpful.

[Dag]

Not being helpful and opinions not allowed.......obvious opinions.

[SiamWallaby]

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

I would do it slightly differently

First I would do a missing persons report on the mother, that you should have done a long time ago by the way. Be careful to state when the mother last had contact with the child, that will be used as evidence in juvenile court

Yes, your rights start with a court case; Negotiations are always better so if you are pretty sure that the mother won't object too much then OK, spend a bit of time finding her. If you think it is unlikely that she will agree to sign over sole custody to you, then you can just go ahead and file where you and the child live now. You would request legitimization and sole custody on the grounds of abandonment... Not shared custody. If you want to bring the child out of Thailand, then you must get sole custody, the mother can veto that you bring the child out of Thailand until she's approx 15 otherwise

The court will send a letter to the mothers registered address, her problem if she comes or not and it looks better for you if she doesn't. You will eventually be granted sole custody if the mother doesn't show up, you're unlikely to be granted it if she does. Juvenile court is all about negotiations, facilitating payment to the mother is not a bad idea. The courts will not remove the mothers custody if she fights to keep it. Mothers visitation rights are almost holy so do not say that you want to leave Thailand with the child, you plan to stay forever is good. You do plan to take your child to visit her relatives in Australia and come back again though, no problems

I would not tell the family anything about legitimization. Most Thais know that mother and father are the only ones with rights, many poorer Thais with low education thinks that father has more rights than mother even. You Are The Father, It Is Your Child and NoOne Except Father And Mother Has Any Rights WhatSoEver To Your Child. End of Story - The in-laws probably don't know that you need to get legitimized but if they do, then just keep quiet for 4 months or so (2 months too short, 3 OK if mother agrees but it will be 4 to 6 if mother doesn't show up). Regardless, they know that they have no rights. If needed, then I would add that if anyone else than father or mother takes the child or denies father or mother access, then it is kidnapping and jail behind bars according to Thai law.

Adoption: I Am The Father And I will Never Accept Anyone To Adopt My Daughter, Full Stop. Turn around and walk out into the kitchen if anyone wants to continue discussing the matter

30 to 50K is possible for a Thai speaking lawyer but it may not be enough if the mother fights. Forget 200K, that's a rip-off. 15K possible if mother agrees

It sounds like you would never accept anyone to adopt your child, I am glad to hear that. Especially considering the history of your first child. It is only fair that you let people know that

Good Luck Proud Daddy

Michael

Michael,

Thanks for the input and alternative approach. That was one question I did have, about the missing persons report. Some of have said to file the report just after it happens, as you obviously

feel is best too. When I considered this (early on) I didnt feel right doing it because it wasn't the truth. My ex did not abandon her daughter. She had other children previously and realized she'd not be

able to afford raising another child. She also knew my history with my previous daughter and so willingly gave her to me (under law this may be abandonment anyway, not sure). If we were under western law this would be pretty straight forward. Possession is 9/10s of the law as they say.

As I found out more about Thai law I saw how precarious my position was but wasnt too fussed because the ex had disappeared, and didn't know where my daughter and I were living. At the time I was quite happy just to

wait til she was about 4 or so, and rock up the the ampur and get her legitimized. Recent events have given me a wake up call.

Even though I'm not sure about getting her a passport, as what I was told in the embassy was that both parents must give permission..what they said I needed to do was register her. The second trip into Bangkok during working hours and during a working day, finding them closed again really got me upset, and felt like making a scene. I was just walking toward the citizenship area and the guard grabbed my shoulder and said I couldnt go back there. He couldnt explain why they were closed either. So it is what it is, that was a few months ago. So I guess in all fairness I should have just quit my job and camped out on the steps until they opened...but i chose not to.

After Rayong I will next sort out the embassy, and get a solicitor of some sort.

This is the first time (I think) I've posted something like this asking for help on ANY forum, and thought it could only help. In a way it has I guess, but I am

surprised that for every decent person trying to help there's 3 or 4 who just want to take the pizz out of someone for no apparent reason.

Not much different though from when you say a friendly "gday" to some farang here in thailand and they give ya the dirtiest of looks. Just have to laugh and feel sorry for the miserable sods.

A sincere thanks to those who have chimed in though, with their advice and experiences.

The thread should be closed now though, as I dont think I'll be checking it any more. I'll sort it immediately, and if I need pointers I'll private message individuals.

[samran]

Aust embassy on accepts applications for citizenship by descent in the morning between 10.30 and 12.00 from memory. Given you are identified as the father on the BC you can probably accomplish this without the mothers permission.

Once you have the citizenship cert in hand, THEN you can do the passport which will require the mothers signature. When you are at the embassy applying for your daughters citizenship duck over to the consular section and outline your exact situation and ask them exactly what they require for a passport to be issued from someone in YOUR situation.

[MikeyIdea]

I should clarify this statement

"the mother can veto that you bring the child out of Thailand until she's approx 15 otherwise"

And it will be the child herself who decides at that age

"Possession is 9/10s of the law as they say."

I don't agree with the expression 9/10s of the law but I agree with the end result - 8/10s IMO

I was the interpreter for a westerner in a Juvenile court case in July, I cannot see that Thai juvenile courts bias against fathers or westerners at all, but the Thai judges are more prone to consider feelings shown (and their own feelings) than western courts where fact dominate heavily. The one in possession of the child clearly has advantage, easier not to change than change of course, not changing school is (a bit) preferred, certainly no change mid-term, break-up with friends, class-mates and relatives. Plus...

When love fails, feelings run high. The one in possession can easily (and fairly often also do) "teach" the child to become negative of the other part. Common. More common among mothers than father but both happen

Good Luck

You're welcome to PM me