Shouting At A Local In Anger

[mca]

I did it today. I'm not particularly proud of it but it's done. I considered it necessary at the time.

Borrowed my BIL's MU-7 because my cars in the shop. Did a bit of driving round so as a courtesy thought I'd stick some diesel in it for him. Pulled up to the next petrol station. Passenger window down. " Diesel pan baht "

Pump jock was a young lad of about 19. Another pump jock was a young girl of about the same age. Clock my face. " Farang " and giggles from him. No problem. Par for the course in LOS. " Do you have a girlfriend?" " She doesn't have a boyfriend" Bit of grab-arsing between them. The usual happy horseshit.

What made me bark was, due to their pissing about, the boy had grabbed the unleaded hose and was about to give the MU-7 a nice grand's worth of the wrong fuel.

" DIESEL " I shouted with a face like thunder imagining the shit I'd have to deal with sorting the car out, draining the tank etc. due to their f@cking about.

They both looked sheepish.

Driving down the road I thought " That's the first time you've really blown up at a local mate"

Then I thought " But he bloody needed it."

Any other tales?

[beautifulthailand99]

No never touch wood yet (except for private rows with the wife - but hey they don't count and always makes things worse!) - but your circumstances would appear to be one where it was warranted and worked with no after effects.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, but when I do it, I regret it. Not because they didn't deserve it but because it always backfires. What works in New York, bombs in Bangkok.

I have seen Thais do this to other Thais and get better results so I don't believe the BS that Thais never get hot or that it can never work for them. But it simply not acceptable for a foreigner to do that at a Thai.

[dean999]

Your right, he did need it but it doesn't stop you feeling like a dick though.

Don't worry about it, he has probably forgotten about it by now. If he hasn't though, he is probably rounding up his mates and on his way round. Hope you don't live in a condo on the 16th floor.

[Moonrakers]

Some people seem to have a misconception that Thai's aren't people like the rest of us.

So yeah, I have on occasion had the need to raise my voice, just as the need is likely to arise from time to time in any other country.

[richard_smith237]

Sounds fair enough...

Thai's shout at each other. The only difference is more often than not they let the small stuff slide...

I know a number of guys that would've made a joke out of the same situation and handle it a different way, I know a number of Thai guys who would have shouted, I know a number of Thai guys who would've spoken to the pump attendant softly and given him a school teacher style dressing down and explain the outcome of his lack of attention...

Given the language difficulties one firm word is often enough to deal with a simple situation.

While checking out of a hotel last week I was asked by the bell boy if I needed him to carry my luggage, I had one shoulder back (for one night), I said "Mai Pen-rai Krup"... but he tried to take it anyway, so I had to say "Mai Pen-rai Krup", but he still tried to take it, so I raised my voice "NO !"... then back to normal tones.

Sometimes a slightly raised tone or a shout is necessary to draw someone out of their 'mind numbed slumber' while performing a menial task....

I have supervised Thai's who have responded very well to firm words, others resent it and just go backwards... More often than not an individual person and situation merits variable approaches...

In the case of the OP: This was neither excessive or unwarranted.

[Soutpeel]

Some people seem to have a misconception that Thai's aren't people like the rest of us.

So yeah, I have on occasion had the need to raise my voice, just as the need is likely to arise from time to time in any other country.

Agreed

[Trembly]

Yeah, but when I do it, I regret it. Not because they didn't deserve it but because it always backfires. What works in New York, bombs in Bangkok.

I have seen Thais do this to other Thais and get better results so I don't believe the BS that Thais never get hot or that it can never work for them. But it simply not acceptable for a foreigner to do that at a Thai.

Its not that it isn't acceptable for a foreigner to do it, its just that in general they often don't understand the more complex (Time + Place) x (Way You Do It) algorithms involved in acceptably (in a manner of speaking) losing your cool in Thai culture.

[leo12345]

You might feelt the best about loosing your temper, however if you received the wrong petrol for your car and tried to talk to him after you would have had a much harder problem.

[Moonrakers]

I remember now the last time I shouted at a Thai

It was a few weeks ago, the guy I shouted at was the manager of my apartment building. It was in the agreement that I would have to use the wi-fi supplied by the building and not have my own connection installed. It was very unreliable and came to a point where I just could not use it, I'd been having problems with it for a while and I am reliant on an internet connection because I work online.

So one day it wasn't working, again. So I go downstairs to try to get it fixed, again. This time he just looked me in the face and said there was not a problem with it at all, even though mine wasn't working and other people were calling down to complain. The guy was acting like a <deleted> so I treated him like a <deleted> and my rantings drew that attention of rather a lot of people.

Result = He got fed up with me and my internet problems so he scrapped the internet agreement and I now have my very own fast and reliable internet connection.

[Chivas]

Absolutely not having a pop at the OP but that exact situation amongst others like not resetting the pump and short changing you, is the reason I get out of the motor everytime, and stand and watch what their doing.

I see lazy Thais (and farangs) winding down the window 1 inch and trying to communicate with music blaring and traffic passing !

[happyrobert]

Result = He got fed up with me and my internet problems so he scrapped the internet agreement and I now have my very own fast and reliable internet connection.

Yes, but rumor has it that the lady with the pestle has been put under a one year contract.

[Moonrakers]

Result = He got fed up with me and my internet problems so he scrapped the internet agreement and I now have my very own fast and reliable internet connection.

Yes, but rumor has it that the lady with the pestle has been put under a one year contract.

Not heard a peep out of her since.

Another victory for the shouty farang.

[AngelofDeath]

I have never shouted at a local before because I have a very high tolerance level for many things. I'm surprised that the other party didn't retaliate. I read that in Thai culture, they have the concept of "not losing face". For example, if you want to know the way to a certain location and if you ask a local, he/she might point you to a direction even though they don't know the way to your destination. In situations where the local has been shouted at, I think this is a major "face loss". I thought they will argue back or beat you up.

[irishken]

yes i have done it.after a really long day travel from koh chang to phuket,i was in the taxi from the airport to patong and the taxi man nearly killed me 2 or 3 times while taking to his wife that was in hospital. she had been in a car crash that day, <deleted>, so i just told him to got off the phone or i get out. sure enough he got off the phone and there was no tip and the end of the journey

[Moonrakers]

Every time I encounter this 'face' issue, it's a matter of an individual not wanting to be accountable for their own actions. I don't pander to it.

I treat people with respect and in turn they treat me with respect. There are exceptions but it's the same everywhere.

[toffo9]

Next time you fill up give him a 20 baht tip and a smile then all forgotten

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

I have never shouted at a local before because I have a very high tolerance level for many things. I'm surprised that the other party didn't retaliate. I read that in Thai culture, they have the concept of "not losing face". For example, if you want to know the way to a certain location and if you ask a local, he/she might point you to a direction even though they don't know the way to your destination. In situations where the local has been shouted at, I think this is a major "face loss". I thought they will argue back or beat you up.

It's a myth.

Truth of the matter is many have very short fuses that can change with a flick of a switch one minute smiling the next an uncontrollable psychopath. Not unlike many foreigners who sit in bars every night so its not just a Thai thing.

[Ijustwannateach]

If it's a matter of endangerment (to myself or others) I'll speak up, loudly or harshly as needed. It hasn't happened often but I've never felt like there was any negative backlash when it was clear this was the reason.

If it's just stupidity or muleheadedness making things difficult or inconvenient, I have a range of eye-rolling expressions but avoid more confrontational behaviour.

[Moonrakers]

I have never shouted at a local before because I have a very high tolerance level for many things. I'm surprised that the other party didn't retaliate. I read that in Thai culture, they have the concept of "not losing face". For example, if you want to know the way to a certain location and if you ask a local, he/she might point you to a direction even though they don't know the way to your destination. In situations where the local has been shouted at, I think this is a major "face loss". I thought they will argue back or beat you up.

It's a myth.

Truth of the matter is many have very short fuses that can change with a flick of a switch one minute smiling the next an uncontrollable psychopath. Not unlike many foreigners who sit in bars every night so its not just a Thai thing.

Swap "myth" with "excuse" and I'll agree with you entirely.

If somebody is of the mentality that they are willing to beat a person within an inch of their lives with a gang of friends, then 'losing faith' is the least of their problems.

Fortunately such people are in the minority.

[mca]

Every time I encounter this 'face' issue, it's a matter of an individual not wanting to be accountable for their own actions. I don't pander to it.

There's definitely something in that. The reason I shouted at the guy was he was about to put the wrong fuel in the car. Basically because he was frigging about with the girl rather than concentrating on his job. I needed an instant response to avoid giving me a major headache. I'm not the sort of bloke to shout at a Thai if, for instance, they accidentally give me LM instead of Marlboro in the 7-11. The subtle nuances of saving his " face " didn't enter the equation because if that were the case and I went down the save face route by the time it computed in his mind ( what's the mad farang saying?) he'd have most probably stuck about 100 bahts worth in already. I mean, if somebody is about to reverse over your child in their car because they're pissing about on the telephone or whatever you're more likely to shout the Thai equivalent of ' Watch out you <deleted>!" then try to save his/her face.

Going back to Moonrakers point. When I worked in a hotel in BKK we had a voucher promotion for rooms at half price. Needless to say restrictions applied including a validity date printed on the voucher . This woman phoned the reservations department only to be told that her voucher was 2 months out of date. She demanded a room saying she had bought a voucher and threatened to have the job of anybody who didn't give her what she wanted. The next day ( after her receiving polite short shrift) the hotel received a call from her brother who was some mid-level minister in the government also demanding a room and implying that the hotel would have problems if the voucher wasn't accepted. Rather than cause a fuss the GM accepted. When the woman checked in ( and my mental picture of her was spot on - middle aged, big hair, entry level Benz ) she still wouldn't let it go. Spoke to the front office staff as if they were dirt. She demanded to speak to the GM and spent about half an hour bending the poor sods ear about her " losing face"

Now to me gaining face would have been to accept that she was wrong and pay for a room. Her actions in the eyes of the staff caused her to lose even more face.

There's saving somebodys face as in giving a polite bollocking behind closed doors of a member of staff who keeps f@cking up.

Then there's necessary action and face be damned ( as witnessed by myself with a Thai mate ) who parked his brand new car with me as passenger in Pullman Khon Kaen's car park only to have another car pull in next to him and BAM! the other driver opened the door and smacked my mate's door hard not once, not twice but three times because the guy had parked too close. My mate put his window down and gave the Thai version on " Oi watch what you're bloody doing!" I doubt politely saving the other guys face was uppermost in my pals mind.

[thunder30101]

Asians use the face illusion to get what they want from someone else, just look how the ammarts in this country use it on the prais, its all bullshit. I never get mad at a thai and yell, it serves no purpose I just take my money and go elsewhere, that gives me some satisfaction watching them lose a sale. I mean it isnt like there arent 20 other shops selling the same dam_n thing at the same price withing walking distance.

[happyrobert]

Every time I encounter this 'face' issue, it's a matter of an individual not wanting to be accountable for their own actions. I don't pander to it.

Now to me gaining face would have been to accept that she was wrong and pay for a room. Her actions in the eyes of the staff caused her to lose even more face.

Yep, they were thinking, what a buffoon. How many times have I noticed just thissame phenomenal avoidance of reality? Hundreds, at least. Yet those who witness it repeat it themselves when the opportunity presents itself.

A lifetime of study to begin to understand it.

[Semper]

Shouting At A Local In Anger Ever done it?

Several times. However only people I know, so in a couple of days everything is back to normal.

[carmine]

Yeah, but when I do it, I regret it. Not because they didn't deserve it but because it always backfires. What works in New York, bombs in Bangkok.

I have seen Thais do this to other Thais and get better results so I don't believe the BS that Thais never get hot or that it can never work for them. But it simply not acceptable for a foreigner to do that at a Thai.

I'd agree with JT on this. Whe a foreiner loses it it and starts shouting they are on a hiding to nothing. better to button it and move on

[smokie36]

Op did the lad a favour. I can imagine the words his boss would have used being much harsher!

[saraburioz]

Some people seem to have a misconception that Thai's aren't people like the rest of us.

So yeah, I have on occasion had the need to raise my voice, just as the need is likely to arise from time to time in any other country.

They do don't they.

If you would shout at a local in your home country the chances are that you will shout at one here.

personally, I don't shout at people.

IN this situation, I'd probably turn it into a joke, but making sure the guy realised his mistake.

Btw, did he apologize?

[mca]

To be honest in 99% of situations I'm more likely to cut a local more slack than I would a fellow countryman back home. I suppose it's the part of me that doesn't want to come across as an arrogant westerner lording it over folks in their own country. But anybody who's ever put the wrong fuel in their car knows its not a 5 minute job to rectify and heaven forbid starting the engine and actually driving off. If the guy had just done his job but chosen the wrong hose then for sure a polite " Diesel khrap" would have sufficed. The fact that his gooning around ( with me as part of the floor show ) nearly ruined the best part of my afternoon was what made me bite.

And no he didn't apologize.

[mca]

Op did the lad a favour. I can imagine the words his boss would have used being much harsher!

Yeah I bet there wouldn't have been much Thai on Thai face saving from the boss to the lad after having to deal with me should I have received half a tank of 95 instead of diesel.

[saraburioz]

To be honest in 99% of situations I'm more likely to cut a local more slack than I would a fellow countryman back home. I suppose it's the part of me that doesn't want to come across as an arrogant westerner lording it over folks in their own country. But anybody who's ever put the wrong fuel in their car knows its not a 5 minute job to rectify and heaven forbid starting the engine and actually driving off. If the guy had just done his job but chosen the wrong hose then for sure a polite " Diesel khrap" would have sufficed. The fact that his gooning around ( with me as part of the floor show ) nearly ruined the best part of my afternoon was what made me bite.

And no he didn't apologize.

Can you speak Thai fluently?

Did you actually say, Diesel or the diesen?