Is Thailand's Low English Proficiency A Barrier To Economic Expansion?

[RubbaJohnny]

Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

Fair point tho I think the real top players no how to get their message across using

THE SIS !!

[x5david]

Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

A friend of my wifes went to work in the "University of life" in Pattaya and did not speak a word of English,two years down the line she came back with her new farang husband and speaks excellent English ,I wonder if there is a message there somewhere!!

Yes...the message is, when there is a financial incentive to learn something...it will be learned. She got the farang husband didn't she.

[x5david]

low English proficiency is an absolute show-stopper for economic development.

Not sure about that after all the Japan turned into a ecomonic powerhouse, although their English proficiency is not a bad as Thailand IMHO, its not the best either, but they managed to pull it off.

More importantly its creative thinking, ingenuity, the will to suceed and problem solving rather than the language which is spoken which leads to ecomonic development

I think you have proved another reason why Thailand will never be an economic powerhouse...."creative thinking, ingenuity, problem solving skills"....will never be a strong suit here with the poor educational system and culture of never questioning authority.

[hammered]

low English proficiency is an absolute show-stopper for economic development.

Not sure about that after all the Japan turned into a ecomonic powerhouse, although their English proficiency is not a bad as Thailand IMHO, its not the best either, but they managed to pull it off.

More importantly its creative thinking, ingenuity, the will to suceed and problem solving rather than the language which is spoken which leads to ecomonic development

I think you have proved another reason why Thailand will never be an economic powerhouse...."creative thinking, ingenuity, problem solving skills"....will never be a strong suit here with the poor educational system and culture of never questioning authority.

Considering we have had both yellow and red shirts running around taking things over, storming all manner of buildings, involved in gun play against the police and army, rioting, shutting down airports and city centers and ignoring all kinds of arrest warrants etc etc, where is this culture of never questioning authority?

[doji]

I think you have proved another reason why Thailand will never be an economic powerhouse...."creative thinking, ingenuity, problem solving skills"....will never be a strong suit here.

Then how can you explain...that most socalled rich western (english speaking country), with advancement in education system currently are going bankrupt one by one? But thailand is still standing tall.

And ...just imagine if thailand is a true economic powerhouse, would many farangs be able to indulge themselve here?.....with cheap women and psudo jet-set millionair lifestyle per se

with the poor educational system and culture of never questioning authority.

Oh i guess you haven't heard through the grapewine,...that infact the certain authority has been questioning themselves of late, that's why 2 years ago the government has just declared that the English will be the second official language of Thailand from now on. So at the moment they're trying to improve the education system bit by bit. Give it sometime, things will not change over night, as long as it's moving in the right direction, however it may be slow, I'm quite content with it for now.

Edited August 8, 2011 by doji

[Soutpeel]

I think you have proved another reason why Thailand will never be an economic powerhouse...."creative thinking, ingenuity, problem solving skills"....will never be a strong suit here.

Then how can you explain...that most socalled rich western (english speaking country), with advancement in education system currently are going bankrupt one by one? But thailand is still standing tall.

And ...just imagine if thailand is a true economic powerhouse, would many farangs be able to indulge themselve here?.....with cheap women and psudo jet-set millionair lifestyle per se

with the poor educational system and culture of never questioning authority.

Oh i guess you haven't heard through the grapewine,...that infact the certain authority has been questioning themselves of late, that's why 2 years ago the government has just declared that the English will be the second official language of Thailand from now on. So at the moment they're trying to improve the education system bit by bit. Give it sometime, things will not change over night, as long as it's moving in the right direction, however it may be slow, I'm quite content with it for now.

Actually they proposed English as a second languge two years ago and the whole thing got shot to sh*t and the reason which was cited was colonalism and the BS about Thailand never being colonised etc and if English was made a second languge..... blah blah....

As far as I am aware there is no policy in Thailand of English being an official second language..

[55Jay]

To most Thais Thailand is the world...they feel they will never interact much with other countries, especially western countries. So, why learn English? Besides none of the Thai soap operas are in English.

Here here!!!! Completely agree, and this is the fundamental problem!!! Thai's have an ethnocentric view of the world, and that is the fundamental problem.

That is accurate. Insulation from the outside world is one of many symptoms. I would offer that even the US, like any country, has various classes and I've seen my fair share of well educated folks who can't write but they darn sure hang that diploma on the wall. It's the accepted hall pass in our society. Always felt it was more about finishing something you've started rather than actually learning or coming away "educated".

Reading all these posts, many base line and contributing factors have been identified. As one said, keeping the majority of the population with their faces to the mud and backs to the sky supports a major internal and export industry in Thailand. Why would educated government types want to encourage educated farmers? Overwhelming demand is agriculture and until that changes, working to improve the unwashed masses is counter productive to business. What would it be changed to anyway? Agriculture is a perpetual, sustainable thing. Manufactering and technology goes with whims and economies. After it's over or the bubble bursts, you have a million folks who, after 20 years, forgot how to farm and turning it backward is hard. Look at the US. Even for all our economic woes, we "educated superior" ones still can't bring ourselves to pick our own vegatables. Farming is too "lo so"? We have waiters and bartenders with Master's Degrees.

Agree with others - learning usable English is also a by-product of needing to work and make money and in Thailand, the easy route for some without a great education is in tourist areas. From bargirls to mid-range shops/retail, the more the business line demands English interaction, the more the person will be forced to it by circumstance, not by latent motiviation to learn and improve themselves. It's about money. Neccessity is the mother of all invention and in this case, applies to human motivation to survive. Language ability is the great equalizer, moreso than a fancy degree or Grade A English on the school transcript.

Last, agree with the person who wrote about having an English A on CV or transcript is an accomplisment one assumes, because they were told all those years growing up, that's what you needed to succeed. My wife's nephew is a super star in school. Top 5 in the class, terribly bright, it's scary, but I can't get very far past hi how are you when I speak with him. He'll be in University in 2 years time and may as well come away with shiny gold stars for English on his transcript, but without exposure, or motiviation, it is simply about doing well in school, not about actual, usable skills. Language takes time and lots of exposure, and continued use, to be a usable thus valuable skill set.

Edited August 8, 2011 by 55Jay

[Jawnie]

Agreed. Thailand and Thai language are very, very small fish in a huge English-speaking ocean that is expanding day-by-day. Any delay just delays Thailand's inevitable progress.

To most Thais Thailand is the world...they feel they will never interact much with other countries, especially western countries. So, why learn English? Besides none of the Thai soap operas are in English.

Here here!!!! Completely agree, and this is the fundamental problem!!! Thai's have an ethnocentric view of the world, and that is the fundamental problem.

That is accurate. Insulation from the outside world is one of many symptoms. I would offer that even the US, like any country, has various classes and I've seen my fair share of well educated folks who can't write but they darn sure hang that diploma on the wall. It's the accepted hall pass in our society. Always felt it was more about finishing something you've started rather than actually learning or coming away "educated".

Reading all these posts, many base line and contributing factors have been identified. As one said, keeping the majority of the population with their faces to the mud and backs to the sky supports a major internal and export industry in Thailand. Why would educated government types want to encourage educated farmers? Overwhelming demand is agriculture and until that changes, working to improve the unwashed masses is counter productive to business. What would it be changed to anyway? Agriculture is a perpetual, sustainable thing. Manufactering and technology goes with whims and economies. After it's over or the bubble bursts, you have a million folks who, after 20 years, forgot how to farm and turning it backward is hard. Look at the US. Even for all our economic woes, we "educated superior" ones still can't bring ourselves to pick our own vegatables. Farming is too "lo so"? We have waiters and bartenders with Master's Degrees.

Agree with others - learning usable English is also a by-product of needing to work and make money and in Thailand, the easy route for some without a great education is in tourist areas. From bargirls to mid-range shops/retail, the more the business line demands English interaction, the more the person will be forced to it by circumstance, not by latent motiviation to learn and improve themselves. It's about money. Neccessity is the mother of all invention and in this case, applies to human motivation to survive. Language ability is the great equalizer, moreso than a fancy degree or Grade A English on the school transcript.

Last, agree with the person who wrote about having an English A on CV or transcript is an accomplisment one assumes, because they were told all those years growing up, that's what you needed to succeed. My wife's nephew is a super star in school. Top 5 in the class, terribly bright, it's scary, but I can't get very far past hi how are you when I speak with him. He'll be in University in 2 years time and may as well come away with shiny gold stars for English on his transcript, but without exposure, or motiviation, it is simply about doing well in school, not about actual, usable skills. Language takes time and lots of exposure, and continued use, to be a usable thus valuable skill set.

[Jawnie]

Thailand wishes it had America's problems. Since we are flaming now, what would happen to Thailand's economy if all the prostitutes left? Yeah, that's a sound financial foundation...

I think you have proved another reason why Thailand will never be an economic powerhouse...."creative thinking, ingenuity, problem solving skills"....will never be a strong suit here.

Then how can you explain...that most socalled rich western (english speaking country), with advancement in education system currently are going bankrupt one by one? But thailand is still standing tall.

And ...just imagine if thailand is a true economic powerhouse, would many farangs be able to indulge themselve here?.....with cheap women and psudo jet-set millionair lifestyle per se

with the poor educational system and culture of never questioning authority.

Oh i guess you haven't heard through the grapewine,...that infact the certain authority has been questioning themselves of late, that's why 2 years ago the government has just declared that the English will be the second official language of Thailand from now on. So at the moment they're trying to improve the education system bit by bit. Give it sometime, things will not change over night, as long as it's moving in the right direction, however it may be slow, I'm quite content with it for now.

[MaxLee]

Well, if I may contribute my part,... I am currently working as a volunteer English teacher besides studying my masters at International college, and I work at a Bilingual Primary school in Nakorn Patom, teaching Kindergarten until Pratom 6 students.

Referring to the things that I've read through the years in several Bangkok post articles and reflecting it to my current work... It pains me to say, but, to work academically with curriculums and stuff like that is completely impossible with these kids, because first of all, there is a huge lack of discipline, I mean in terms of keeping kids quite and stuff like that, and of course more than 40 students in a class room.

I mean, there's for example, no point for me giving homework because it can be copied anyway, and besides, the Thai English teachers are responsible for the grammar stuff like that, I'm just here to facilitate speaking and playing some games with them....

My approach is.... you know, take it easy on these kids, try not to pressure them too much with complicated stuff, let them come up to you and touch you and tear you, and smile of you, at least with the kindergarden kids. I think I am making quite a progress with some of them.... But the smaller kindergarten kids at level 1 and 2,... cannot be controlled so easily because they're just running wild,... so you know what,... if there is a force,... why oppose it, just adapt with it, because the point is, it's no use to try to hard to be to academic with them because of the lack of exposure and the fact that normally the Thai teachers scream at and beat the crap out of those kids, and for those kids interacting someone who is against violence, is something special for them to make them either happy but at the same time take advantage of, especially in grades 1-4

I'll take it easy on them, just adapt, and make them say keywords,... that's all they need in an environment where people are practically shy of foreigner deep enrouted in their own culture...

I mean if I would be in a more adequate school with better behavior, of course I would be much more stricter, but maybe I'm too soft, since it is more or less my first ever job during the week as English teacher...

The school I work for is IMO not a very famous one, so... I just wanted to share my thoughts and experience....

bottom line referring to that article: Yes the standards of English are very low in Thailand, I must say in terms of English learning, most Thai people are simply slow in their brains, I mean the very basics of English conversations, for having such a problem to do it, can be very frustrating,... so you must be very patient with them...super patient, but as I said, maybe I'm just too soft with them

Edited August 8, 2011 by MaxLee

[AbdulJabaar01]

This will give you a few laughs amongest the Thai staff at any Thai school.

I have been teaching English in Thailand now for almost 11 years and would like to put my 2 cents in;

One of the problems with the education system when it comes to learning English is the "Old" Thai teachers and their "old" ways. I am not prejudice about anyone but until Thailand can rid these "old school" teachers there is little hope.

When I teach to Thai's even in the provinces where there is maybe 0.15% of the students that can speak ANY English at all, I could NOT teach English if I could not speak Thai. Most private language schools frown on this as do government schools but they must get over this crap and if a teacher CAN speak some Thai then let them if it makes it more fun for a student or saves endless hours of using flash cards etc to get one already lost point across in 2 seconds buy just explaining it to them in Thai. One thing I have noticed which helps is that most Thai students can at least read and write English to some extent due to the "old school" Thai teachers ramming GRAMMAR down their throats.

Anyways, in my opinion the number 1 problem with Thai's learning English I have already mentioned: GRAMMAR GRAMMAR GRAMMAR !!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus man, not even us farangs liked learning grammar. Grammar is the most boring thing in the world to anyone unless they are studying to be a Linguistics analysis or something.

Until Thailand can invest money into hiring more foreign English teachers, paying even a HALF decent salary and cutting out all the crap that comes along with hiring decent teachers, ESL just won't happen in Thailand.

All this crap about having to have a degree to get a work permit, and the visa issues etc is just that, CRAP. I know many teachers who do NOT have a degree but are exceptional English teachers because they have social skills and are more likely to want to actually help a Thai learn English rather then some degree barring professor that couldn't teach a kid how to say a sentence in English.

What good is a teacher who has a Masters Degree in English Linguistics and comes with 15 years experience teaching in America if he can't sit on the floor with Thai kids and sing a song or just be a "REAL" person.

I have seen these types of teachers and if a poor kid says something like " Are you come from Canada?" the dam_n teacher goes into a big lecture on how grammar states that "a present tense verb cannot be used as a direct or in-direct progressive tense adverb that will contradict the past tense conjunction with a future tense noun" <deleted> !!!!!!!!!!! Just tell the poor kid that "Its better to say "Do you come from Canada."

Forget the Grammar in grade school and just let these poor students learn how to SPEAK English and to have fun while doing it. After these kids have gone through 5+ years of having Grammar shoved down their throats and are about as bored as a person can get with English, do you actually thing they are looking forward to learning from a foreign teacher who they think is probably going to shove more grammar down their throats?

Our jobs as English teachers are half beaten by the time they dump us into a school in Issan and give us 25k per month to teach English AND put up with all the crap about Degrees, Work permits, visas etc.

I do have respect for the older Thai teacher BUT until Thailand changes the way the upcoming teachers teach English and as the older teachers fade away, there just isn't a chance. In my opinion the ways to get Thailand up to par with English is as follows:

Get rid of the old teachers and give them a great retirement package for their years of service and dedication (not just 40k baht)

Drop all the crap about having to have a bloody degree to get a WP, visa etc.

Pay a decent salary to expat teachers so we can actually live here comfortably.

NO MORE dam_n GRAMMAR !!!!!!!!!

Get the Foreign Degree holding professors to work with the Thai Government Educational System and let US make the curriculum NOT follow Thai Government Curriculum. (US meaning "we all" not United States haha.)

Hold yearly International Teachers Conventions to get more suggestions how other 3rd world countries have educated their children and for us teachers to give our input.

Of course this will all take money but until the Thai Government invests in this then Thailand will always be the loses country for English and yes it is.

Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam etc are all supposed to be 3rd world countries and Thailand is the "Developing Country?" So why can all these other countries speak English and Thailand still cannot?

dam_n now that I think of it, put ME in charge. I'll have em all speaking proper Thaingrish within one decade.

PS: The only government that has ever invested (and started) in English programs such as the MEP, Bi-lingual, International schools etc is the one we have back in NOW.

[tingtongtourist]

Thai person only learn English to marry and take rich farang to cleaner.

+if every Thai lady speak good english then how we know which lady is prostitute?????

[CosmicSurfer]

Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

It's about time Thai People joined the Real World, where they can learn to communicate with other People from other countries and understand and respect other Cultures... Even being able to identify a Country on a map would be nice... Being able to identify Thailand on a map would be nicer!!!

CS

Edited August 8, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[KKvampire]

I notice a famous or infamous English Language school operating in Bangkok (named after a well known Financial Street in the USA.not connected with success at the moment I might add,) have big advertising campaign with posters all over Bangkok. Times are tough and the most expensive school in the country are touting for business.

[CosmicSurfer]

The OP asked a good Question... "English proficiency or attitudes: what are the true barriers?"

After 9 years here, and 8 years as an English teacher, I have come to realize that the True Barrier is Attitude and Culture.. The Proficiency will come if we can overcome the Bad attitude and Cultural roadblocks.

It will take generations before Thais start to really speak English well... But First the Government and media must make them understand the Value of speaking English... Go to any of the Other countries mentioned in the Article, and you will find English all around you and easily accessible. In Bangkok it is almost impossible to Find the Nation or Bangkok Post if you are not in a Tourist Area. There is NO free English TV channel. There is No push or incentives provided by the Government and most Thais therefore feel that there is no Priority to learning English.

Of Course they understand the theory that Having English will improve their lives, but they don't see the Practical Applications...

Even businesses that cater to Foreigners, or are foreign owned make little attempt to market towards them, and go out of their way to eliminate English on their packaging or fail to provide marketing information in English.

For example here are Two of my Biggest pet Peeves:

1) Frito-Lay Potato Chips, an American company, Rarely puts any English on the packaging for their new "Thai" flavors.. most times, not even the Flavour name is indicated anywhere in English.. They leave it up to us to decipher the Flavour from the Pack Photo. Why they assume that farangs would not be interested escapes me.. but they also lose an opportunity to help Thais learn how to say the Flavour in English.

2) Deliberately placing a Thai label over the Nutritional Information on Food labels. Naturally I make every effort to peel these off when I can.. sometimes I can't, so I don't buy the product. Again they lose my business. But for Thais they are left with the lesser information on the Thai label, plus another opportunity lost learning the ingredients and other info in English. Why don't they put those labels on the can Bottom or over other more useless marketing information?

Until Thai attitudes change and they understand the values of English, until they find English more readily accessible and more integrated into everyday life, the Teaching of English in this country will never cease to be an uphill, losing battle!

CS

Edited August 8, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[Thaihog]

Many universities are correcting this by demanding their undergraduate and graduate students to submit their theses in English.

The OP can't even spell thesis.... the blind leading the blind....

[Thaddeus]

Many universities are correcting this by demanding their undergraduate and graduate students to submit their theses in English.

The OP can't even spell thesis.... the blind leading the blind....

Theses is the plural form of thesis..... or are you trying to assert that each university only has one capable student.

[scorecard]

Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

A friend of my wifes went to work in the "University of life" in Pattaya and did not speak a word of English,two years down the line she came back with her new farang husband and speaks excellent English ,I wonder if there is a message there somewhere!!

Yes...the message is, when there is a financial incentive to learn something...it will be learned. She got the farang husband didn't she.

In fact it proves the research based concept that:

- Kids are naturally open to learn anything, in fact they have strong natural drives to fill their brain with anything and everything.

- Adults are very selective of what they learn, and often they learn because it's a step to some form of benefit, as opposed to a natural interest in that subject.

[scorecard]

Many universities are correcting this by demanding their undergraduate and graduate students to submit their theses in English.

The OP can't even spell thesis.... the blind leading the blind....

I'm not aware of students in programs taught in Thai language being forced to write / submit their thesis in English.

Would you care, please, to share some examples, which universities, which faculties...

In reality a very large percentage of students who attend programs conducted in Thai language simply do not the skills to even start to write their thesis in English.

If they were forced to do so, what will very probably happen is that they pay someone to translate the Thai language version of their Thesis into good English.

What does that achieve in terms of broader English development? Nothing.

Further, for students in Thai programs, their thesis should be judged by their insight into the subject they have been studying rather than their ability to write it in English.

All Thai universities have to toe the line in regard to numerous rules dictated by the university affairs commission etc., which is a very Thai, very conservative, and very powerful organization, Thai universities have to get their permission to breath. sadly they have little to zero interest in good English.

Edited August 9, 2011 by scorecard

[Familyonthemove]

Perhaps I've been very lucky ..... but I just don't recognise the 'typical' Thai traits that some posters are describing in this thread. Our Bangkok office people have decent English (better than we generally find in our China, Japan or Korea offices), are innovative, can solve any problems and work incredibly hard.

They do tend to have more fun at work than our US colleagues and the office is certainly louder than most, with the possible exception of our Indian office. English is better in India for historical reasons, and the problem solving ability of the Indian team is amazing ... but that's becasue people in India have more problems to solve!

[MaxLee]

The OP asked a good Question... "English proficiency or attitudes: what are the true barriers?"

After 9 years here, and 8 years as an English teacher, I have come to realize that the True Barrier is Attitude and Culture.. The Proficiency will come if we can overcome the Bad attitude and Cultural roadblocks.

It will take generations before Thais start to really speak English well... But First the Government and media must make them understand the Value of speaking English... Go to any of the Other countries mentioned in the Article, and you will find English all around you and easily accessible. In Bangkok it is almost impossible to Find the Nation or Bangkok Post if you are not in a Tourist Area. There is NO free English TV channel. There is No push or incentives provided by the Government and most Thais therefore feel that there is no Priority to learning English.

Of Course they understand the theory that Having English will improve their lives, but they don't see the Practical Applications...

Even businesses that cater to Foreigners, or are foreign owned make little attempt to market towards them, and go out of their way to eliminate English on their packaging or fail to provide marketing information in English.

For example here are Two of my Biggest pet Peeves:

1) Frito-Lay Potato Chips, an American company, Rarely puts any English on the packaging for their new "Thai" flavors.. most times, not even the Flavour name is indicated anywhere in English.. They leave it up to us to decipher the Flavour from the Pack Photo. Why they assume that farangs would not be interested escapes me.. but they also lose an opportunity to help Thais learn how to say the Flavour in English.

2) Deliberately placing a Thai label over the Nutritional Information on Food labels. Naturally I make every effort to peel these off when I can.. sometimes I can't, so I don't buy the product. Again they lose my business. But for Thais they are left with the lesser information on the Thai label, plus another opportunity lost learning the ingredients and other info in English. Why don't they put those labels on the can Bottom or over other more useless marketing information?

Until Thai attitudes change and they understand the values of English, until they find English more readily accessible and more integrated into everyday life, the Teaching of English in this country will never cease to be an uphill, losing battle!

CS

@Cosmic Surfer: Yes, attitude is exactly the problem,... but the lack of opportunities and lack of self discipline and individual are additional aspects that make English teaching more kinda like a baby sitting job instead of a curricular lessons as I am experiencing it right now...

Like I said before, the majority of Thai students are to slow in their brains to be driven by self motivation and by ability means of learning English, I am reluctant to say at this point to call them "simply stupid", even though it is to be the case on account of the cultural barrier that prevents them from questioning authorities. Referring back to your point, It will really take generations in order for Thais to achieve that motivation for Thais to speak English. What is one or two hours of English lessons worth,...???

[CosmicSurfer]

@Cosmic Surfer: Yes, attitude is exactly the problem,... but the lack of opportunities and lack of self discipline and individual are additional aspects that make English teaching more kinda like a baby sitting job instead of a curricular lessons as I am experiencing it right now...

Like I said before, the majority of Thai students are to slow in their brains to be driven by self motivation and by ability means of learning English, I am reluctant to say at this point to call them "simply stupid", even though it is to be the case on account of the cultural barrier that prevents them from questioning authorities. Referring back to your point, It will really take generations in order for Thais to achieve that motivation for Thais to speak English. What is one or two hours of English lessons worth,...???

All your points are subsets of Attitude... Self-motivation, Will to learn and ask questions, etc.

As for them being Stupid.. I too question the use of that term... I prefer "uneducated or simply Ignorant", being as stupid is more directly reflecting on Ability, whereas Ignorance is just a lack of knowledge. They generally have the ability, they just don't have the knowledge, and lack the motivation to acquire it.

As to your Question > What is (are sic) one or two hours of English lessons worth,...???

The answer is Nothing, when there is NO Motivation, Need, or Support to use the language learned outside the classroom. They will never learn until they start using it.. and Practice... Practice... Practice.

They Must feel motivated, and feel they have some purpose, plus they Must gain the comfort that only practice and use provide. As long as they remain too uncomfortable and shy about mistakes and accent, etc, they will never get comfortable about using it!

My approach.. Let them know how badly Thaksin (and now Yingluck) spoke/speak English... and that Unless they have spent any extended time in an English speaking Country, MOST International Celebrities and Political Leaders also speak English badly.. But it doesn't matter.. Because the purpose of Language is too Communicate.. and as long as people understand the Point they are making, then they are being successful.. even with a Bad accent or Bad grammar...

Finally, tell them to STOP trying to impress with Big words that they end up using incorrectly, and in the wrong context. It impresses No one except Thai English teachers who taught them the words... They should stick with Small words and longer but more understandable explanations... At least then they are using words they know, and the other person will understand them better.

There are 2 ways to get from Point A to Point B - "As the crow Flies" for native speakers with large vocabularies or the "Scenic Route" for New Learners that don't have the Skills developed yet. Both get you there. They need to choose the route that gets them there safely, not quickly, because traveling too fast can lead to a crash.

CS

[CosmicSurfer]

I notice a famous or infamous English Language school operating in Bangkok (named after a well known Financial Street in the USA.not connected with success at the moment I might add,) have big advertising campaign with posters all over Bangkok. Times are tough and the most expensive school in the country are touting for business.

Wall Street has always advertised heavily, from the First day they entered the Thai Market.. and they have a very unique Marketing and Teaching/Learning approach.

They charge you a One Time Lifetime fee. (Last time I checked it was around 80,000 Baht) For this you get NO Formal Classes, but you do get all the One-on- One and Computer-assisted help you require. For group learning They focus on discussion groups (moderated by teachers) and a student is free to join as many groups as they like, and to attend as many days & hours he/she wants.

Their success is dependent totally on the motivation of the student to participate, practice and Support each other. And for 80,000+ Baht upfront, you can bet the students are motivated.

CS

Edited August 9, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[Berkshire]

It's about time Thai People joined the Real World, where they can learn to communicate with other People from other countries and understand and respect other Cultures... Even being able to identify a Country on a map would be nice... Being able to identify Thailand on a map would be nicer!!!

CS

The "real world?" Amusing little topic, but I'll bite. Let me play Devils Advocate a bit. What are the two most advanced economies in Asia? Japan and South Korea, arguably. Neither seem to be bent on learning English (unless they're playing on the LPGA tour). Having lived in both places, I can say their English are generally worse than the Thais. How about the other spectrum? What has English proficiency done for the perennial basketcases Myanmar and the Philippines? Should Thailand aspire to be like the PI? LOL. Oh, I left out Singapore, HK, and Taiwan. Intentionally, of course. The Chinese want to learn English because it goes towards their long term agenda of world domination. Hey, if you're going to have a bunch of farangs working for you, gotta learn English! (or at least how to say "shut up and get back to work!"). Seriously, if I had to advise a Thai family on what second language their kids should learn, I'd say learn Chinese.

[CosmicSurfer]

It's about time Thai People joined the Real World, where they can learn to communicate with other People from other countries and understand and respect other Cultures... Even being able to identify a Country on a map would be nice... Being able to identify Thailand on a map would be nicer!!!

CS

The "real world?" Amusing little topic, but I'll bite. Let me play Devils Advocate a bit. What are the two most advanced economies in Asia? Japan and South Korea, arguably. Neither seem to be bent on learning English (unless they're playing on the LPGA tour). Having lived in both places, I can say their English are generally worse than the Thais. How about the other spectrum? What has English proficiency done for the perennial basketcases Myanmar and the Philippines? Should Thailand aspire to be like the PI? LOL. Oh, I left out Singapore, HK, and Taiwan. Intentionally, of course. The Chinese want to learn English because it goes towards their long term agenda of world domination. Hey, if you're going to have a bunch of farangs working for you, gotta learn English! (or at least how to say "shut up and get back to work!"). Seriously, if I had to advise a Thai family on what second language their kids should learn, I'd say learn Chinese.

I agree.. Chinese is the language I also would also recommend... if they Only want to communicate with China and Taiwan, the Only two places where Mandarin is the primary language of Business communication.

But if they want to learn One language that would allow them to communicate with the rest of the world, including China, Taiwan, Korea (South & North), Japan, Brazil, Russia, France and Mexico.. Then they should learn English... For Better or Worse, It is the most widely used language for cross-cultural communication.

CS

Edited August 9, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[Berkshire]

It's about time Thai People joined the Real World, where they can learn to communicate with other People from other countries and understand and respect other Cultures... Even being able to identify a Country on a map would be nice... Being able to identify Thailand on a map would be nicer!!!

CS

The "real world?" Amusing little topic, but I'll bite. Let me play Devils Advocate a bit. What are the two most advanced economies in Asia? Japan and South Korea, arguably. Neither seem to be bent on learning English (unless they're playing on the LPGA tour). Having lived in both places, I can say their English are generally worse than the Thais. How about the other spectrum? What has English proficiency done for the perennial basketcases Myanmar and the Philippines? Should Thailand aspire to be like the PI? LOL. Oh, I left out Singapore, HK, and Taiwan. Intentionally, of course. The Chinese want to learn English because it goes towards their long term agenda of world domination. Hey, if you're going to have a bunch of farangs working for you, gotta learn English! (or at least how to say "shut up and get back to work!"). Seriously, if I had to advise a Thai family on what second language their kids should learn, I'd say learn Chinese.

I agree.. Chinese is the language I also would also recommend... if they Only want to communicate with China and Taiwan, the Only two places where Mandarin is the primary language of Business communication.

But if they want to learn One language that would allow them to communicate with the rest of the world, including China, Taiwan, Korea (South & North), Japan, Brazil, Russia, France and Mexico.. Then they should learn English... For Better or Worse, It is the most widely used language for cross-cultural communication.

CS

You have a point, of course. I don't speak a lick of Chinese, but just looking at the trends...particularly within the region. Do you know what is the most spoken language on the planet, purely by numbers? Mandarin, of course.

[CosmicSurfer]

You have a point, of course. I don't speak a lick of Chinese, but just looking at the trends...particularly within the region. Do you know what is the most spoken language on the planet, purely by numbers? Mandarin, of course.

Well sure... but I don't know how much your average Hi-So Thai or Thai/Chinese would want to communicate with a Chinese peasant.. Even if there are a Billion of them. And in Thailand of Today it will only be the Hi-So and Upper Mid-Class that will have the resources to learn Mandarin.

Realistically, They want to communicate with the educated business community, which are much, much fewer in number... and who in-turn look at The Thai market as a Pimple on the Global market... even though I'm sure that there are a few Chinese assigned to learn to communicate in Thai. And I have met some, who of course communicated with me in English.

Let's be honest.. in the Best of All worlds, the more languages you know the Better... In Europe, many, if not most, of the people are multilingual. And Thailand is well situated to do business with the Chinese... But As an ex-Product Development Manager and a Global Buyer, I can assure you that China is not looking at Thailand as a manufacturing base, but Rather as demonstrated by the China Export marts complexes they are building, they are looking at Thailand as a gateway to other FOREIGN Markets.

Thais 'should' learn Mandarin, and it will definitely benefit them in dealing with China and Taiwan, (in Hong Kong they speak Cantonese and English, in Singapore it is Malay, Cantonese, Mandarin and English as the government mandated main language).. But that's were it stops. To deal with the rest of the Global community including the 3 other legs of the BRIC economies - Brazil, Russia and India.. they had better learn to speak English as their 1st second language and leave Mandarin for 3rd.

CS

[wintermute]

The "real world?" Amusing little topic, but I'll bite. Let me play Devils Advocate a bit. What are the two most advanced economies in Asia? Japan and South Korea, arguably. Neither seem to be bent on learning English (unless they're playing on the LPGA tour). Having lived in both places, I can say their English are generally worse than the Thais. How about the other spectrum? What has English proficiency done for the perennial basketcases Myanmar and the Philippines? Should Thailand aspire to be like the PI? LOL. Oh, I left out Singapore, HK, and Taiwan. Intentionally, of course.

You're not looking at the bigger picture. Japan and South Korea excel in engineering, science, and mathematics. They poured their society's resources and motivation into intensive domestic development of their industrial capabilities. They have been doing this since the 70's to get the current results. Just because Japan and Korea had one result doesn't mean a lot. For smaller developing middle income nations being able to compete internationally as well as adapt through a cosmopolitan culture is critical. I see you left out Singapore and HK when you shouldn't have..they are prime examples of how being a cosmopolitan well educated, as well as english speaking nation can boost GDP.

Singapore and HK aren't industrial giants like S. Korea but they are financial centers and the reason why they have been able to attract all that foreign money is because they built up banks with educated financiers, investors, and venture capitalists. It's not always the man who designs and manufactures products that wins but also the people that control the flow of money and to do that you _must_ have the global language ability to do so.

[Xangsamhua]

It's about time Thai People joined the Real World, where they can learn to communicate with other People from other countries and understand and respect other Cultures... Even being able to identify a Country on a map would be nice... Being able to identify Thailand on a map would be nicer!!!

CS

The "real world?" Amusing little topic, but I'll bite. Let me play Devils Advocate a bit. What are the two most advanced economies in Asia? Japan and South Korea, arguably. Neither seem to be bent on learning English (unless they're playing on the LPGA tour). Having lived in both places, I can say their English are generally worse than the Thais. How about the other spectrum? What has English proficiency done for the perennial basketcases Myanmar and the Philippines? Should Thailand aspire to be like the PI? LOL. Oh, I left out Singapore, HK, and Taiwan. Intentionally, of course. The Chinese want to learn English because it goes towards their long term agenda of world domination. Hey, if you're going to have a bunch of farangs working for you, gotta learn English! (or at least how to say "shut up and get back to work!"). Seriously, if I had to advise a Thai family on what second language their kids should learn, I'd say learn Chinese.

I agree.. Chinese is the language I also would also recommend... if they Only want to communicate with China and Taiwan, the Only two places where Mandarin is the primary language of Business communication.

But if they want to learn One language that would allow them to communicate with the rest of the world, including China, Taiwan, Korea (South & North), Japan, Brazil, Russia, France and Mexico.. Then they should learn English... For Better or Worse, It is the most widely used language for cross-cultural communication.

CS

You have a point, of course. I don't speak a lick of Chinese, but just looking at the trends...particularly within the region. Do you know what is the most spoken language on the planet, purely by numbers? Mandarin, of course.

I don't know the numbers, but I suspect most Chinese people speak Mandarin as a second language - their first being Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka or whatever. Allowing for Mandarin being spoken competently as a second language, most of its speakers are in mainland China itself.

A few years ago, researching for an article, I learned that Mandarin Chinese was being learned as a second language outside China by some 20 million people. Impressive! However, at that time English was being studied at school or elsewhere by some 250 million people in China itself.

English, as a first or second (or third) language, is far and away the most widely spoken language in the world, though its native speaker proportion of the globe's population is shrinking. I agree that Chinese would be a very useful language for anyone engaged in commerce, international management, diplomacy and the like, but for these and more general purposes English is here to stay as the universal lingua franca. Maintaining standards so that English speakers from one country can be easily understood by those of another is important, though I'm often amazed that non-native speakers of English seems to be able to follow other non-natives from different countries much better than I can. Somebody explained that they could "speak ESL", but I couldn't. Still, if L2 speakers of English want to be understood in London, New York or Sydney, they'll have to do better than the supposedly competent English speakers on this video.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/nationvdo/showvdo.php?id=4532&cateid=13

[lungmi]

I don't know the numbers, but I suspect most Chinese people speak Mandarin as a second language - their first being Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka or whatever. Allowing for Mandarin being spoken competently as a second language, most of its speakers are in mainland China itself.

A few years ago, researching for an article, I learned that Mandarin Chinese was being learned as a second language outside China by some 20 million people. Impressive! However, at that time English was being studied at school or elsewhere by some 250 million people in China itself.

English, as a first or second (or third) language, is far and away the most widely spoken language in the world, though its native speaker proportion of the globe's population is shrinking. I agree that Chinese would be a very useful language for anyone engaged in commerce, international management, diplomacy and the like, but for these and more general purposes English is here to stay as the universal lingua franca. Maintaining standards so that English speakers from one country can be easily understood by those of another is important, though I'm often amazed that non-native speakers of English seems to be able to follow other non-natives from different countries much better than I can. Somebody explained that they could "speak ESL", but I couldn't. Still, if L2 speakers of English want to be understood in London, New York or Sydney, they'll have to do better than the supposedly competent English speakers on this video.

http://www.nationmul...=4532&cateid=13

Small corrections. Classic Mandarin Chinese (with the signs) is only taught in Taiwan. (My son studied 1 1/2 years at the National University Of Taiwan).

I remember from my studies as linguist that every baby has the capacity to learn 3 languages in the first 6 years by learning, imitation and doing.

The political conclusion is:

1. learn correctly the language of your homeland.

2, learn correctly the language of your neighbourland

3. or 2. learn correctly the international language necessary in you homeland.

Off topic: I have hilltribe students, all under 12 years.

They speak the language of their homeland (Hmong, Lisaw, Karen)

They speak with problems the language of their "neighbourland" (Thailand)

They speak English with me to make pancakes, spaghetti, to take care of the garden, to plant vegetables etc.

Intercultural learning by languages.

Edited August 9, 2011 by lungmi