Nokia Dieing Slowly

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It will be interesting to see whether all that planned marketing and financial investments will pay future dividends in spurring consumer adoption of Nokia Windows Phone handsets in the U.S. and elsewhere.

Those efforts, along with the abovementioned rock-bottom pricing offers for the Lumia 900 handset launch, ought to at least generate some level of sales... Unfortunately for MS and Nokia, they may be a bit too late to the IPhone and Android smartphone party.

On the other hand, look at what consumers did with the HP TouchPad tablet. Pretty much ignored it until HP cut their pricing to firesale levels, and suddenly the units were flying off the shelves and selling out online... That tends to suggest there's a market for pretty much everything provided it's offered at a compelling price.

[4evermaat]

So what is stopping Nokia from launching their own mini Android lineup? Has it at least crossed their minds? Or has Microsoft locked them in?

[IsaanUSA]

So what is stopping Nokia from launching their own mini Android lineup? Has it at least crossed their minds? Or has Microsoft locked them in?

I believe Nokia is exclusive to Microsoft currently, but Nokia has not signed any contracts for WP8 which is the big one that everybody is waiting for. That one brings in the tight MS product integration and multi-core hardware support. This is just what I've read from other web forums. I don't know if the exclusivity stuff is factual. Personally I feel like Android OS would sell more phones, but I do not know their corporate strategy. Microsoft did give them a ton of money though, which is always nice.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nokia is still selling, and will be selling, various non Windows Phone handsets... Mostly they're the successors to its former Series 40 models, which now in their latest incarnation are carrying the Asha model name and OS, I believe.

The Asha phones aren't exactly considered smartphones, but the latest models certainly have feature sets that are heading in that direction. I guess they could be considered high end feature phones or very low end smart phones...

But AFAIK, Nokia doesn't have and hasn't had any Android handsets, and it seems unlikely they will. At least for the time being, their smartphones will be Windows Phone OS models and their feature phones will be the ever name changing variety of the company's Symbian OS.

[lomatopo]

The response to the initial launch (TV ads, in-store availability) by AT&T, Nokia and Microsoft of the Lumia 900 seems modestly positive.

http://bits.blogs.ny...t-lumia-retail/

AT&T’s Lumia Salespeople Don’t Seem So Hot for the Phone

By BRIAN X. CHEN | April 9, 2012, 7:48 PM

AT&T has poured loads of money into advertising Nokia’s new Lumia 900 phone, but if a visit to four stores in New York is any guide, AT&T store employees don’t seem that sold on the device.

A small sampling of AT&T sales specialists polled at stores in Midtown Manhattan on Monday seemed lukewarm toward the Lumia 900. Three out of four of them said they preferred Apple’s iPhone 4S because of the hundreds of thousands of apps available for it, and one employee firmly recommended against the Lumia because of the smaller app catalog.

None of them strongly recommended the Lumia 900, but two employees noted that people enjoyed the Lumia 900’s e-mail software better than the iPhone’s. Those two were careful to note, however, that there was a 30-day return period for the Lumia 900 in case you just want to try something new.

Clearly the TV ad isn't in the "Sterling Cooper" mold, http://news.cnet.com...t-t-ad-alludes/

http://www.forbes.co...a-debut-at-att/

No Denying Strong Lumia Debut at AT&T

Bloggers got in a fair amount of digs at Nokia for launching the Lumia 900 flagship phone on Easter Sunday, when vast majority of AT&T stores were closed. Fair enough – the decision was odd.

But on Monday eve, the day after the Lumia 900 launch, the traction this phone has at Amazon.com is certainly better than anticipated.

Edited April 10, 2012 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think I saw an ad the other day offering the 900 for $20 via a two-year mobile service activation via either Target or Walmart stores... Seen it for $50 elsewhere with similar signups... I guess ATT's list is $100 with a contract. Heard that the official non contract price for now is $600+.

[lomatopo]

http://wireless.amazon.com/dp/B007P5NHJO

$19.99 if you have an existing AT&T contract and extend that 2 years; $49.99 with a new contract, $499 no contract. Not sure where the "one penny" deal is/was?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was referring to the unlocked versions of the 900. For example, Expansys USA is showing pre-orders for the unlocked Nokia Lumia 900 LTE (Unlocked, 850/1900 4G) for $765.

The $499 price you're showing above is a non-contract ATT replacement phone via Amazon Wireless.

Also, here's the $20 price via Target Mobile with ATT contract extension.

Edited April 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

I was referring to the unlocked versions of the 900. For example, Expansys USA is showing pre-orders for the unlocked Nokia Lumia 900 LTE (Unlocked, 850/1900 4G) for $765.

The $499 price you're showing above is a non-contract ATT replacement phone via Amazon Wireless.

Also, here's the $20 price via Target Mobile with ATT contract extension.

The Nokia Lumia 900 is available from AT&T Wireless at the "No Commitment price of $449.99. If you want to pay $600, or $765, you can do that I guess?

The Amazon Wireless $499 is also available to anyone.

http://www.wireless...._sku=sku5870225

No-Commitment Pricing

You may purchase a new AT&T phone without a contract at the no-commitment price. This non-discounted equipment purchase option does not require a two-year contract or other long-term service commitment. No-commitment equipment pricing is available to customers that are not on a prepaid or GoPhone® plan. You can purchase a phone at no-commitment prices at AT&T retail stores. For an AT&T retail store near you, visit our store locator.

Edited April 10, 2012 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There are differences between the U.S. ATT-LTE version and the unlocked non-LTE UK/European version of the Lumia 900, including the frequency bands.

Not clear to me what those would mean for users in Thailand in terms of operation on our various local non-LTE 3G networks, nor on the owner's ability to unlock a no-contract ATT purchased Lumia 900.

Here's the bands list for the ATT model, under the hardware tab

Operating band

• GSM 850
  
• GSM 900
  
• GSM 1800
  
• GSM 1900
  
• WCDMA Band V 850
  
• WCDMA Band VIII 900
  
• WCDMA Band II 1900
  
• LTE Band 17 (700)
  
• LTE Band 4 (1700/2100)
  

Here's the bands list for the UK model, under the hardware tab:

• GSM 850
  
• GSM 900
  
• GSM 1800
  
• GSM 1900
  
• WCDMA Band V (850)
  
• WCDMA Band VIII (900)
  
• WCDMA Band II (1900)
  
• WCDMA Band I (2100)
  

[lomatopo]

Not clear to me what those would mean for users in Thailand in terms of operation on our various local non-LTE 3G networks, nor on the owner's ability to unlock a no-contract ATT purchased Lumia 900.

There would be no need to unlock the "No Commitment" AT&T/Nokia Lumia 900 as it is already unlocked.

The AT&T/Nokia Lumia 900 supports 3G 850/1900/2100 so would work with DTAC, TrueMove H, Cat My, TOT and any future 3G service on 2100 Mhz. (It would also work on T-Mo/USA's "4G" network, and, of course AT&T's 3G and 4G networks so perhaps a better solution for some?)

Provided those specs are accurate, the UK model would allow one to use the phone on any/all 3G providers here including AIS/One-2-Call (900 Mhz).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Loma, what makes you think ATT's no-commitment Lumia 900 phone purchases are the same as unlocked??

As I read it, they're saying they won't require a two-year or similar ATT contract at the higher purchase price. But I don't see that as saying the ATT model is hardware unlocked and can be used immediately and without mod on anyone else's compatible network.

[lomatopo]

Nokia closed down Times Square (Good) Friday night with a heckuva launch party! I am huge Nick Minaj fan.

I think they may launch it in Thailand in May.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the Lumia 900, on the issue of ATT's no commitment pricing phone purchases and whether those types of ATT phones are sold as already unlocked, ATT's customer service forums have discussion on that general subject for other phones, with the answer that in general, ATT no commitment pricing phones are NOT sold as unlocked.

I did, however, already see at least one online site that was advertising selling the unlock code for the ATT Lumia 900 for about $40.

As for ATT itself, one example from an ATT forum moderator answering the question: Does "No Commitment" also mean unlocked?

10-11-2011 11:02:20 AM - last edited on 10-11-2011 11:03:41 AM

No Commitment just means you pay full retail, and don't have to commit to a 2-year service contract with AT&T. It has nothing to do with being unlocked. All phones sold by AT&T are locked. And they will only give unlock codes to customers, and only 10 months after the phone is released.

You can go the route of buying an unlock code from eBay, for less than $10. There may also be a way of unlocking the phone yourself, as is the case with some Android phones. But I don't know if that is the case with the Xperia Play. [which was the model that was the subject of the forum inquiry].

http://forums.att.co.../2900681#M12802

And a similar question and answer here in another ATT forum re a Samsung phone:

http://forums.att.co.../2549797#M84813

Here's what ATT's wireless service policy says about ATT unlocking their phones:

If you wish to use the SIM-locked phone with the service of another wireless telephone carrier, you must enter a numeric Unlock Code to unlock the phone. AT&T will provide the Unlock Code upon request to eligible current and former customers, provided that

(1) the customer has completed a minimum of 90 days of active service with AT&T, is in good standing with AT&T and is current in his or her payments at the time of the request;

(2) if applicable, any period of exclusivity associated with AT&T's sale of the handset has expired [not sure how long that period will be for the Lumia 900 in the U.S.]; and

(3) AT&T has such code or can reasonably obtain it from the manufacturer.

....

For further details on eligibility requirements and for assistance on obtaining the Unlock Code for your handset, please call 1-800-331-0500 or visit an AT&T company store.

Under section 3.0

http://www.wireless....tomer+Agreement

ATT just the other day announced a new policy re their unlocking of IPhones only for customers who have completed their contract, upgraded their plan or paid an early termination fee. But that policy change only appears to pertain to ATT IPhones and not to the other phones in their roster. Nor does the IPhone policy mention anything about no commitment pricing phone purchases, which I don't think they offer with IPhones.

http://www.makeuseof...t-iphones-news/

Edited April 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, the first reports of operating glitches with the 900, apparently the pre-ordered units, from PhoneArena.com:

Some Nokia Lumia 900 units are having network connection issues

So, the Nokia Lumia 900 has landed to much fanfare, and many of the AT&T customers who ordered the smartphone in advance should have already received it. However, a percentage of these pre-ordered units appear to be plagued by a glitch that prevents them from connecting to a data network, be it 2G, 3G, or 4G LTE.

The issue is already being discussed on multiple online communities, including the Nokia Support Discussions and XDA-Developers, and a tipster of ours, who claims to be an AT&T employee, has confirmed that the problem is real indeed. "These devices were mass produced in a plant in mexico and there is a defect with the imei's registering to the data network on 2g, 3g and 4g data", says the AT&T insider. "AT&T and Nokia have quietly addressed and are removing stock of the defective devices. Data will work on first boot, but will stop working after a reboot, restart, turning on airplane mode or turning off data. it will show data is connected but will not work".

MORE:

Edited April 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[IsaanUSA]

AT&T charges $100 with contract and Nokia is giving a $100 credit due to the network problems, so the phone is basically free.

In other news: Nokia plunges 14% after another profit warning

http://money.cnn.com...nokia/index.htm

Edited April 11, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[Gary A]

My very first cell phones brands were Motorola and Ericsson. My wife used Nokia. After seeing how dependable and user friendly her higher end Nokia was, I decided that if you can't beat them, join them. Back then the Nokia phones were dependable and bullet proof.

For whatever reason, during the past several years they have lost the reliability that made it easier to overlook the technical advantages of other brands. Unfortunately they now have very little going for them.

I really don't see any huge advantage of any one of the operating systems available. Android is a slick system and I like it a lot but that won't be the main reason I buy a phone. I'm sure that I would be happy with a Windows phone IF I thought the actual phone quality was better. Nokia appears to have lost that edge. I want a phone that is able to resist shocks, is water resistant and has a screen that doesn't get all scratched up by being carried in my pocket.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AT&T charges $100 with contract and Nokia is giving a $100 credit due to the network problems, so the phone is basically free.

Yup... here's a link with details on that offer...which they're making because of the network connection glitch problem mentioned in my prior post.

"We wanted to send a message that we're not only solving the problem in an expedited fashion, but that we're going above beyond and beyond to not only fix the issue and give you something for your inconvenience," Chris Weber, head of Nokia's North American business, said in an interview with CNET.

http://news.cnet.com.../?tag=cnetRiver

And more:

The glitch was a result of the way the phone manages memory and is a software issue, Weber said, stressing that it was not a hardware issue or a problem with AT&T's network. Weber declined to comment on how many phones were affected. He said it was a limited number but that it was big enough to warrant this action.

Nokia has identified the problem, and phones with the fix will appear in stores over the next few days, he said. Customers can either swap out their phones at AT&T stores or wait for a software update on April 16 that will resolve the issue.

Edited April 12, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

Nokia Sales Slump Puts Pressure on Elop to Consider Split

Less than two months ago, Nokia Oyj (NOK1V) Chief Executive Officer Stephen Elop stood up at the mobile- phone industry’s annual jamboree to declare that the company had turned the corner as sales of its new smartphone blossomed. The prediction proved premature. Yesterday, the Finnish company reported a surprise operating loss at its handset unit for the first three months and forecast no improvement this quarter. While sales of the Lumia model it developed with Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) topped estimates, competition ate into margins and sales of lower-priced devices plunged in emerging markets.

As Nokia’s cash pile dwindles and a junk credit rating looms, Elop will have to consider more radical steps such as selling its low-end phone business, whose revenue slumped by a third last quarter, said Adnaan Ahmad, an analyst at Berenberg Bank in London. Nokia makes about 70 percent of its handset sales outside Europe and North America, where competition from Chinese companies including ZTE Corp. (000063) is intensifying.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-11/nokia-sales-slump-puts-pressure-on-elop-to-consider-split.html

[lomatopo]

I played around with a Lumia 900 in an AT&T store here in the U.S. I have to say that the physical form, design is close to perfect for my specs. I find my 4" super AMOLED screen (SGS 1) almost the perfect size while the SGS 2 at 4.5 " a bit large. The Lumia 900's 4.3 " Super AMOLED screen is just right for my hand. It is a brilliant design.

I found the UI easy to use; I have to say that it will appeal to younger children and perhaps older adults as it has big, easy to manipulate blocks used to navigate for functions. I'm not sure it is different enough, or even better than the other more-entrenched options, to ultimately be successful? If it was two or three years ago I'd say there was a chance for Nokia to be successful, but maybe too little to late, even if they give the phone away for free?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FWIW, even as of tonight, the black color 900 remains atop Amazon's list of best selling phones sold with service contracts, while the cyan colored model ranks at 6th place. And both show with summary top 5 star ratings from Amazon customers who have given the phone rankings. And curiously, when you look at those ratings, they're almost all 5 star ratings, with very few even at anything less.

Guess there are a lot of folks who've been waiting a long time for the promised Nokia-Windows 7.5 smart phone and are pretty happy now that it's finally arrived... I hope they're just as happy in the coming year when Windows 8 is released for desktops and presumably Windows Phone 8 follows.

Edited April 16, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[IsaanUSA]

As Nokia’s cash pile dwindles and a junk credit rating looms, Elop will have to consider more radical steps such as selling its low-end phone business,

Sell the low end business? That doesn't even make sense. If the low end phones make them money, then continue with it. If the low end phones are a money loser, then just stop making them or slow production down significantly.

I found the UI easy to use; I have to say that it will appeal to younger children and perhaps older adults as it has big, easy to manipulate blocks used to navigate for functions. I'm not sure it is different enough, or even better than the other more-entrenched options, to ultimately be successful? If it was two or three years ago I'd say there was a chance for Nokia to be successful, but maybe too little to late, even if they give the phone away for free?

Well the software on the phone is made by Microsoft. I think for both companies, it was too little, too late. Nokia lost the US years ago when they basically disappeared from the market in the US.

Also Microsoft pissed a lot of people off with the whole Kin situation, and a lot of people still have a sour taste in their mouth about Microsoft phones. They really messed up with the Kin.

FWIW, even as of tonight, the black color 900 remains atop Amazon's list of best selling phones sold with service contracts, while the cyan colored model ranks at 6th place. And both show with summary top 5 star ratings from Amazon customers who have given the phone rankings.

I personally know of nobody that has purchased a contract (or off contract) phone through Amazon. I've only heard one minor complaint about the Lumia hardware, but otherwise nothing but praise for the hardware.

Edited April 16, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[lomatopo]

As Nokia’s cash pile dwindles and a junk credit rating looms, Elop will have to consider more radical steps such as selling its low-end phone business,

Sell the low end business? That doesn't even make sense. If the low end phones make them money, then continue with it. If the low end phones are a money loser, then just stop making them or slow production down significantly.

Maybe best if you quote the article rather than making it appear as if you are quoting me?

Presumably the intent here, and it has been suggested by many including several in this thread, is to split the company in some manner allowing it to focus on the WMP business, and not continually get distracted with the legacy business. Selling off the legacy business now, while it still has some perceived value, seems like a viable option, but not the only one obviously. This strategy is hardly unprecedented. Stopping or slowing production would yield zero value, and add considerable costs, so perhaps not the wisest path?

[IsaanUSA]

Maybe best if you quote the article rather than making it appear as if you are quoting me?

Sorry, but I guess after so much time has passed then the post is not eligible to be edited.

[lomatopo]

Ouch. Maybe change the thread title to "Nokia Dying Quickly"? Very few tech companies have been able to pull out of this kind of death spiral.

Lots Of Pain, No Gain: Nokia Reports $4B Drop In Q1 Sales To $9.7B, Blames Restructuring, Competition

Nokia warned us last week that it would be reporting some worse-than-expected numbers, and here they are: sales for Q1 are down by $4 billion (€3.4 billion) to $9.7 billion (€7.4 billion), with a corresponding fall in earnings per share, down by a quarter of a euro and now at a loss per share of just over $0.10 (€0.08). Smartphones, the core of Nokia’s fightback strategy, declined by more than 50 percent both in revenues and unit sales.

According to the results (pdf here) out just now, Nokia also swung to an operating loss of $1.7 billion, blaming the double-whammy of competition from Apple/Google as well as restructuring costs, as the company has pushed to put a stronger emphasis on its new line of smartphones in a race to gain back its rapidly disappearing market share in the higher-margin end of the smartphone market.

Overall, the company saw an eye-watering 40 percent drop in revenues from devices, its biggest business. They are now at €4.2 billion.

The biggest decline, perhaps most unfortunately, is that China sales have gone down by 70 percent over last year.This has been one of the big future hopes for the company in its recovery strategy, but that has been hit hard by competition from cheap Android device makers, and Apple, with consumers in the country increasingly turning to smartphones over lower-end devices. As a measure of what a decline this was: this time last year Greater China was Nokia’s second-biggest market; today it’s the third-smallest (after Latin America and North America, which had been in the bottom-two before as well).

http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/19/lots-of-pain-no-gain-nokia-reports-4b-drop-in-q1-sales-to-9-7b-blames-restructuring-and-competition/?grcc=33333Z98ZtrendingZ0

Nokia CEO Aims To Drive Down Prices Of Its Flagship Phones

By Sven Grundberg

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

STOCKHOLM (Dow Jones)--Stephen Elop, the chief executive of struggling handset maker Nokia Corp. (NOK) said the company aims to drive down the prices of its new Lumia family of mobile phones so as to compete better against Asian rivals on emerging markets.

Speaking to reporters after revealing the company suffered losses approaching EUR1 billion in the first three months of the year, the CEO said Nokia will deepen its cost cutting, and sell off non-core assets as it strives to recover its lost profitability.

Nokia has been losing market share in Western markets since the introduction of Apple Inc.'s (AAPL) iPhone in 2007, swiftly followed by other high-end smartphones using Google Inc.'s (GOOG) mobile phone software Android produced by Asian manufacturers.

Now its bread-and-butter revenue from sales of basic phones in Asia-Pacific, the Middle East and Africa is under threat from the arrival of cheap Android-powered smartphones at the low-end of the market as well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120419-709957.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't think anyone mentioned Nokia also having their credit rating cut by Moody's to near junk status a couple days ago... This was Bloomberg's report:

Nokia Debt Rating Cut to Lowest Investment Grade at Moody’s

By Diana ben-Aaron - Apr 16, 2012

Nokia Oyj (NOK1V) had its debt rating cut to the lowest investment-grade level at Moody’s Investors Service less than a week after the Finnish company said its handset unit will make losses in the first two quarters of 2012.

The senior debt rating was reduced by one step to Baa3, with a negative outlook, meaning the ranking may be lowered again if Nokia’s Lumia line fails to pick up or the handset margin deteriorates further, Moody’s said in a statement today, citing deterioration in low-end phones. The rating change affects about 4 billion euros ($5.2 billion) in senior debt.

MORE:

Edited April 19, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One of the media sources I pay attention to on this subject is the podcast Windows Weekly... On their most recent edition, the two hosts of the podcast, who are pretty clued into these matters, said it's increasingly clear that pretty much NONE of the current version of Windows Phone 7 handsets are likely to be upgraded/upgradeable to Win Phone 8 in the future.

To recap their account, the firmware of Win Phone 8 is expected to be very different from the current Win Phone 7 versions... And given the relatively meager sales of Win Phone 7, it's likely that's going to be the end of the line for that. So to get Win Phone 8 in the future, it's likely going to mean having to buy a new handset.

The good news, they said, is the current Win Phone 7 apps people may have acquired or purchased ARE expected to be compatible with the future Win Phone 8 handsets....

[lennois]

http://www.nokia.com/th-th/products/lumia/?intc=na-fw-ilc-na-home_hero_lumia-na-home-th-th-1128246

lumias coming soon with some goodies if u preorder..

Bit put off by the fact it looks unlikely they gonna be upgraded to W8 tho

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In case anyone needed more evidence, here's added proof that Thailand remains on the cutting edge of technology...

Nokia's (NOK) Popularity Growing in the Wrong Asian Markets

April 23, 2012 10:02 AM EDT

Nokia Corp. (NYSE NOK) shares are lower Monday morning despite reports the company is still wildly popular in several key emerging markets.

According to data from a Nikkei BP Consulting survey, Brand Asia, Nokia ousted blue chips like Coca-Cola (NYSE: KO), BMW, and Disney (NYSE: DIS) as the number one brand in Thailand. In addition, Nokia topped lists in Indonesia, India, and Vietnam.

Amid the positive sentiment which Brand Asia received from surveying "thousands of customers" in the region, Nokia has seen its top line decline, dropping from €7 billion to €4.2 billion in the first quarter of 2012. Smartphone sales last quarter fell from 24.2 million in the prior year to 11.2 million.

Brand Asia said Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) took the top award in China, Taiwan, and Japan. As proof, Nokia's shipments to China alone fell from 23.9 million units to 9.2 million last quarter.

Samsung got third-place in its home of South Korea, ceding the second spot to Apple.

Whether or not Nokia is making strong gains in consumer sentiment in markets which may be lucrative in the future is a topic of debate. China is the most-desired emerging market right now, but India also has waves of new mobile subscribers signing up annually, many starting off with lower-priced feature phones and smartphones -- two of Nokia's key areas.

Nokia shares are about 2 percent lower Monday.

http://www.streetinsider.com/Insiders+Blog/Nokias+%28NOK%29+Popularity+Growing+in+the+Wrong+Asian+Markets/7363221.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, hearing news today that MS/Skype have finally released a Skype app for MS Windows Phone 7.5 Mango handsets...

Sounds like somewhat limited functionality compared to other Skype versions. But at least it's better than for Win Phone Tango handsets, on which the Skype app won't work at all.