Free Tablet Computers Could Well Be A Masterstroke; Thai Opinion

[scorecard]

Your hard wiring, and line rental/installation costs probably swallowed a large part of your budget, throw in the wages for your support facility given there was no internet link giving on line support......your set up and running costs would appear to bear no relation to the tablet project

However I take you point, supprt is crucial, but where is the disclaimer from the Thai government stating once the tablets are released you are on your own.....I must have missed that.....

On the other hand, can you quote any official details of how schools and communities will suddenly all be on-line with strong internet signals, and all have reliable electrical supply?

[scorecard]

Not slagging you off cbr, just your reasoning that schools should not purchase any products that might be likely to get stolen.......not really much hope for advancement is there then.

No. what i'm saying is that most school equipment is exactly that suited to a school so no quick resale value.. 400+ tablet computers on the other hand is an easy sale....... maybe abroad as well as here in Thailand.

I am just trying to be realistic about this tablet program.. it has not a lot to do with Thai kids education and more about winning the election (and it worked)

Netbooks would be a good idea for those students studying subjects that need access to the www. but NOT prathom 1 (6 year olds). This is were my main objection to the scheme comes from.

I understand your concerns, but seeing the speed my son absorbed the skills to use a laptop young children can benefit, the trick here is to attempt to influence the government and education ministry to supply the more robust acceptable product, accept the idea that technology can enhance education, encourage discussion and allow them to think they have come up with an improved idea and are delivering a real vote catcher and something special

To consistently criticise and rubbish their intention will produce nothing of value,

Where's some logical discussion about priorities?

It's well recognized that the rote teaching methodology is outdated by decades and was never a good teaching / learning methodology.

Why spend all this money on tablets when it should be spent on upgrading / changing the teaching methodology and upgrading school facilities.

It will be hard to change but it must be done and there is no time to wait.

I wonder if ego might like to reply?

[473geo]

Your hard wiring, and line rental/installation costs probably swallowed a large part of your budget, throw in the wages for your support facility given there was no internet link giving on line support......your set up and running costs would appear to bear no relation to the tablet project

However I take you point, supprt is crucial, but where is the disclaimer from the Thai government stating once the tablets are released you are on your own.....I must have missed that.....

On the other hand, can you quote any official details of how schools and communities will suddenly all be on-line with strong internet signals, and all have reliable electrical supply?

Nope I am not privvy to such information or planning....doesn't mean it is not in the pipeline though or that the current situation is not currenty being evaluated...

Most schools are in close range of telecom masts so I would imagine there is opportunity to create reasonable communication links...and I would expect there will be disruption for some time in the electrical supply where there is disruption currently.......but you know what, I expect the Thai will make the best of it, or create a workaround......just as they do now.

[RegularReader]

Your hard wiring, and line rental/installation costs probably swallowed a large part of your budget, throw in the wages for your support facility given there was no internet link giving on line support......your set up and running costs would appear to bear no relation to the tablet project

However I take you point, supprt is crucial, but where is the disclaimer from the Thai government stating once the tablets are released you are on your own.....I must have missed that.....

On the other hand, can you quote any official details of how schools and communities will suddenly all be on-line with strong internet signals, and all have reliable electrical supply?

Nope I am not privvy to such information or planning....doesn't mean it is not in the pipeline though or that the current situation is not currenty being evaluated...

Most schools are in close range of telecom masts so I would imagine there is opportunity to create reasonable communication links...and I would expect there will be disruption for some time in the electrical supply where there is disruption currently.......but you know what, I expect the Thai will make the best of it, or create a workaround......just as they do now.

You are the ultimate optimist Ego.

I'm not sure how long you have been living in Thailand, or what experiences you have had dealing with government departments outside of Immigration.

Sure there are many very capable and honest Thai people in these sectors of the community.

I believe many teachers,actually want to teach and if they could, would use modern technology to assist modern teaching.

I will also give the PT pollies, or their advisers, who came up with this scheme, the benefit of the doubt, that it wasn't put into the "plan" so some company with a warehouse of excess stock couldn't rid themselves of a problem; or more likely make a killing because they picked up a license to supply these devices. It would be good to believe, they genuinely wanted to improve the lot of Thai schoolchildren.

Don't forget we are not talking about the sons and daughters of Thai people who can afford to send them to International Schools, such as Harrow, ISB or Bangkok Patana (where many of the pollies kids go). We are talking about little Somcahi and Nong up country. What about the other fairly significant number of students, who go to the non-Government Thai Schools? Will they participate in the scheme?

I would like nothing better, than for a initiative like this to be put into place.

In principle, giving kids such early exposure to computers is a great idea.

But as several other posters have made clear, there are so many, as yet un-explained parts to this, that it is very much looking like a, "hey this is a good idea, it'll get votes. Then, we'll make it up as we go along" idea, which is all too common in this country.

The children and their parents deserve better.

Edited August 14, 2011 by RegularReader

[kraplung]

This is a nice project in theory but how practical is it? Are they copying an existing model or is this a made in Thai idea? If it is I wouldn't be too hopeful.

[harrry]

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/rudds-rort-students-slam-slow-laptops-20110812-1iq3w.html

What hope does a tablet have when even these are not enough.

[YellowFeverCAD]

Your hard wiring, and line rental/installation costs probably swallowed a large part of your budget, throw in the wages for your support facility given there was no internet link giving on line support......your set up and running costs would appear to bear no relation to the tablet project

Hahahaha, my god you are funny. If you even bothered to read what I wrote you would have seen that hard wiring and lease costs did NOT eat up a large part of the budget, plus every machine in the WAN had full online support from our IT center. Its hard to support something when you can't actually use facts as presented so you just make stuff up huh?

So who pray tell is going to support all these tablets in the wild? hahaha, you are truly a laugh a minute...

However I take you point, supprt is crucial, but where is the disclaimer from the Thai government stating once the tablets are released you are on your own.....I must have missed that.....

Wait a minute you just said in your first paragraph that in OUR project support was a big chunk of our costs, but now you are saying you assume the Thai gov't will provide support as well. So ummm that wont' be a cost? Let me tell you it is a hell of a lot easier to support a stand alone PC than it is a tablet.. but of course you know that but I know I know you have to have something to cling to.

I would love to see the math on this project, I mean how many schools are actually in the program, how many kids will actually receive one of these miracle devices so cost per unit of hardware going in, you will need to at least double that for support based on the unit in use. If any of these tablets last a year in the hands of six year olds and their families I would be in shock... who is supporting this project? How is the software being sourced and updated? What infrastructure will be in place? Four hour battery life, planning to re-wire all the schools are we? No costs there..

Geo I am sure somewhere deep down inside you are a well meaning person, but I have to tell you that when you sink your teeth into an idea that makes NO sense at all and continue to try and twist and flip and flop and ignore the obvious all in the name of supporting a cause you have no reason to it makes you look ummm well pick your word there.

So let me ask you, if this idea is so great and you are so sure its going to turn out a bunch of geniuses why don't you dump your son's laptop and get him one of these super Tablets that for 3,000 baht will last three to four years?

I love reading your answers, I have always been a big fan of fiction and lord knows you can bullshit with the best of them. I do hope you will hang around and when this program either never gets off the ground due to it's lack of fiscal common sense or fails horribly in the wild I will waiting with baited breath to see how you plan to pin it on the Dems hahahahahaha

[Gary A]

I'm really amazed by the experts who say this program will fail. Maybe it will but how does anyone know what kind of devices they will buy? When you order thousands of identical devices I would expect that they will be programmed to suit the buyer. Maybe they will be fragile but they could also be bulletproof. Even if they are E-ink models, they could have teaching lessons and text books installed that would be many times better than outdated ragged paper text books.

Charging problems? Any simple minded electrician could arrange for low voltage DC outlets on every desk.

[thaicbr]

I'm really amazed by the experts who say this program will fail. Maybe it will but how does anyone know what kind of devices they will buy? When you order thousands of identical devices I would expect that they will be programmed to suit the buyer. Maybe they will be fragile but they could also be bulletproof. Even if they are E-ink models, they could have teaching lessons and text books installed that would be many times better than outdated ragged paper text books.

Charging problems? Any simple minded electrician could arrange for low voltage DC outlets on every desk.

Gary... You may be correct.. But having worked here for 5 years i'm unconvinced.

How are the students going to write in their books? As they do now.

How are the Prathom students going to do their colouring. which they LOVE to do. They are 6 years old after all.

If they are going to be rugged then they are going to be heavier than any current tablet.

Currently i do not know of ANY heavy duty tablets at the low end of the market. They could design and make their own or Off course they could arrange for a company like Otterbox to make a ruggerised case for it... but will they?

Thailand's education system super structure is just not ready for this. The schools are not ready, The teachers are not ready.

You say it's easy to put new wiring in to a school... really is it SO easy. what about the power drain can the main power lines cope with it..

Many, many things to think about... and at the end of the day there are better, cheaper and more easily available ways of e-learning.

The biggest problem with this idea is the fact they are aiming it at prathom 1 (6 year old students).

Edited August 15, 2011 by thaicbr

[YellowFeverCAD]

I'm really amazed by the experts who say this program will fail. Maybe it will but how does anyone know what kind of devices they will buy? When you order thousands of identical devices I would expect that they will be programmed to suit the buyer. Maybe they will be fragile but they could also be bulletproof. Even if they are E-ink models, they could have teaching lessons and text books installed that would be many times better than outdated ragged paper text books.

Charging problems? Any simple minded electrician could arrange for low voltage DC outlets on every desk.

I am amazed by the people that have zero knowledge or history of the computer industry thinking issues such as the ones you've touched on are so easily fixed.

First of all it would not be thousands of units, it would ten or hundreds of thousands.

Do you know what the DOA rate is for new computer parts? Have you factored that in as well?

We do know the gov't themselves have pledged that the unit will NOT cost more than 3,000 baht, so it's a no name knock off, they would not be able to source a brand name tier one tablet at this price regardless of the number of them being purchased, simple economics.

They have also pledged these units will last 3 - 4 years, meaning a MINIMUM of three years. Have you ever owned a tablet or a laptop? Three years is pushing it in perfect working conditions. They are more fragile, they're smaller lighter and therefore easier to tote around, which also means easier to have slip out of one's hands etc..etc... do keep in mind they are talking about equipping SIX YEAR OLDS with these devices. Do you honestly believe they will last 3 years minimum? Do you have any children, if so please tell me what toy your child has three years later that is still in top working condition... and I can promise you those toys were designed to be handled by little kids.. tablets are not.

Who and how is sourcing of the software being done?

Who is handling the support?

How many schools are involved in the project is there no cost to as you said "a simple minded electrician" wiring all those schools as well as do the upkeep on the work?

Technology should be used in schools, no doubt it can enhance learning when used correctly. This program was a simple vote grab without any thought put into it and just listening to the gov't talk about it shows they have not thought it through and have no real idea how to implement it.

It's so sad that the majority of people that are trying so hard to pretend this will work are doing so simply because they want to be able to say to the Yellow/DEM supporters SEE the PTP really is looking out for the poor. This program shows the exact opposite they don't give a crap if they really did there are so many other better ways to implement technology into a classroom. I would be saying the same about the DEMs if they proposed it. I don't understand why so many farangs seem to want to take sides based on political leanings or shirt colors, the issue should be about helping Thailand grow and programs like this do the exact opposite.

Edited August 15, 2011 by YellowFeverCAD

[nikster]

I shudder to think about using and maintaining those BHT 3,000 tablets. At that price it's going to be crap, and broken quickly.

My 4 year old has no problems using his iPad, by the way... kids are generally way better about picking up new skills, including computer skills, than adults. And looking around me, most middle and upper class kids have iPads already and if they don't surely will have them in a year or so.

The problem with the 3,000 baht price is that it's impossible to make a decent tablet under $500. Maybe $400 with a volume discount. But for $100, it's going to be garbage. And by the way while I do think iPads are leaps and bounds beyond their Android counterparts right now, if I was a government or organization buying for the future and in large quantities, it would be Android. Open source so can be customized in the future and no vendor lock in.

[whybother]

Despite being a populist policy, it may be a winner if implemented well

And what's the chance of it being implemented well?

[snarky66]

Socialists the world over are ramping up entitlements. It has worked well for Greece Spain Italy & soon France & England. Of course take taxpayer money & implement the latest new wave feel good scheme. Heck it's only money. I would prefer that every kid get a hot lunch - free to those from low income families.

[Thakkar]

Socialists the world over are ramping up entitlements. It has worked well for Greece Spain Italy & soon France & England. Of course take taxpayer money & implement the latest new wave feel good scheme. Heck it's only money. I would prefer that every kid get a hot lunch - free to those from low income families.

True. I think studies have shown that proper nutrition and sufficient quality sleep plus exercise does more to nurture learning than almost anything else.

T

[YellowFeverCAD]

I shudder to think about using and maintaining those BHT 3,000 tablets. At that price it's going to be crap, and broken quickly.

Finally someone with their eyes open on this issue.

My 4 year old has no problems using his iPad, by the way... kids are generally way better about picking up new skills, including computer skills, than adults. And looking around me, most middle and upper class kids have iPads already and if they don't surely will have them in a year or so.

You are dead on, kids are like sponges if it's started early enough. Too many Thai families do little at home to help give their kids a head start on learning believing that the schools will do it for them, but by 6 years old the major development mode of the brain has passed. Have a look at www.zerotothree.org if you aren't aware of the studies that have been done.

You are also quite right a 4 year old should have the fine motor skills to be able to use a tablet in a supervised setting. I am not sure how well a room full of 6 year old kids will do with little one on one attention available.

The problem with the 3,000 baht price is that it's impossible to make a decent tablet under $500. Maybe $400 with a volume discount. But for $100, it's going to be garbage. And by the way while I do think iPads are leaps and bounds beyond their Android counterparts right now, if I was a government or organization buying for the future and in large quantities, it would be Android. Open source so can be customized in the future and no vendor lock in.

BINGO... right now hands down the iPad2 is the king of the tablet landscape, Androids will be better going forward but right now not much of a contest, I am impressed with what Gingerbread looks to be able to do but not likely you will get that on a 100 buck tablet.

You are also correct that the price point is a big issue here, it not only makes it next to impossible to source a quality product, by doing so it means that the budgets that have been mentioned are clearly lacking the understanding that a 100 dollar tablet will likely not make it to a year in perfect operational settings, forget in a classroom full of 40+ six year old kids.

I am curious if anyone has accurate numbers on how many kids would actually be involved in this project? Someone threw out a number of 266,000 kids in grade one next year any idea where to check on the accuracy of such a number.. can you imagine a quarter million 100 buck tabs hitting the schools hahahaha..... good lord it boggles the mind.

[thaicbr]

“The party recently insisted it would go ahead with the policy, distributing the first batch of tablets to around 800,000 Prathom 1 (Grade 1) students in the next academic year.”

I found this on a website talking about the scheme.

Wow thats some baht to spend.

[YellowFeverCAD]

"The party recently insisted it would go ahead with the policy, distributing the first batch of tablets to around 800,000 Prathom 1 (Grade 1) students in the next academic year."

I found this on a website talking about the scheme.

Wow thats some baht to spend.

That is a lot of cash to dole out, also keeping in mind that Tiger Direct ( a large North American online retailer) states that the normal DOA rate of new computer parts is running at about 12% right now (stats from 2010) as so many parts these days are throw away due to the cost and its worth repairing then. I wonder what the DOA rate will be on 3,000 baht tabs haha... 80,000 pieces of junk out of the box. that won't affect the budget at all.

800,000 of them in the wild.. yup this has master stroke written all over it.. if only they would have spent this money on technology that would actually help the kids AND teachers in the long run... such a waste.

Edited August 15, 2011 by YellowFeverCAD

[473geo]

Amazing......we constantly hear about the hierarchical structure of Thailand, how it affects the thinking, how children do not question enough, ................so an idea for a project is put forward, do we support it, do we offer constructive advice on how to achieve the end result desired, nope.........

We tell them there is no chance of it working......we do not even allow for learning by their own mistakes....nope we know better and they should listen........sound just a little hierarchical to anybody.......

[YellowFeverCAD]

Amazing......we constantly hear about the hierarchical structure of Thailand, how it affects the thinking, how children do not question enough, ................so an idea for a project is put forward, do we support it, do we offer constructive advice on how to achieve the end result desired, nope.........

We tell them there is no chance of it working......we do not even allow for learning by their own mistakes....nope we know better and they should listen........sound just a little hierarchical to anybody.......

Are you really this thick? Seriously you just do this to troll right?

ANY project put forward should be supported?? There has been TONS of constructive suggestions on how to make technology work in a classroom effectively.. but YOU and others like you are so in love with THIS crazy insane waste of money don't see or hear anything but what you want.

You think it makes sense for them to waste BILLIONS of baht on an idea that has ZERO chance of working so they can "learn by their mistakes" ok my bad I thought you were being serious in this thread and were just a little misguided now I see where are you coming from...

For the record it's NOT we as in farangs that know better it's WE that understand the computer industry I know quite a number of Thai's that work in the computer industry that are pulling their hair out over this insane plan to burn money and many have offered up ideas to the gov't how to do it correctly... but this gov't to this point is not interested in listening... they have to do something to appear to be following through on some of their promises...

Open your eyes...

[473geo]

There are many people crtiicising an aid to education, an enabler, because they feel it cannot provide a full solution, because they feel there are no benefits, because they cannot see that the expectation of some more reserved people is that this action might just provide a little benefit, in areas where it would appear there has been little advancement for many years....despite the very best efforts of your IT friends I am sure...you are welcome to your belief that tablets will bring no benefit at all zero nothing to education.....and you can shout me down and try to insult me all you wish....I believe otherwise...

Let me suggest that companies like ZTE will not be sitting around saying it will not work, they will be looking to ascertain what the expectancy level is and racking their brains on how to deliver accordingly.

[whybother]

There are many people crtiicising an aid to education, an enabler, because they feel it cannot provide a full solution, because they feel there are no benefits, because they cannot see that the expectation of some more reserved people is that this action might just provide a little benefit, in areas where it would appear there has been little advancement for many years....despite the very best efforts of your IT friends I am sure...you are welcome to your belief that tablets will bring no benefit at all zero nothing to education.....and you can shout me down and try to insult me all you wish....I believe otherwise...

Let me suggest that companies like ZTE will not be sitting around saying it will not work, they will be looking to ascertain what the expectancy level is and racking their brains on how to deliver accordingly.

It might be an aid to education, if there was an education there in the first place.

[muchogra]

My friend bought a tablet recently in Taiwan for around B7,000. It's got a smaller screen and don't know what OS it uses. Seems OK.

I bought an IPad from the States about 2 months before they became available here. dam_n, I paid around USD950 or there about including the case. It couldn't access the real time stock and commodity websites that I intended for because it couldn't read flash files and the Java applets. My wife now uses it to watch drama and movies and play games. I downloaded some interesting books and reference materials, she never reads them; and she's a college grad.

[TAWP]

Charging problems? Any simple minded electrician could arrange for low voltage DC outlets on every desk.

Anyone that has ever hired an electrician here don't want anything wired anything close to any kids in a school. That is just nuts.

[YellowFeverCAD]

There are many people crtiicising an aid to education, an enabler, because they feel it cannot provide a full solution, because they feel there are no benefits, because they cannot see that the expectation of some more reserved people is that this action might just provide a little benefit, in areas where it would appear there has been little advancement for many years....despite the very best efforts of your IT friends I am sure...you are welcome to your belief that tablets will bring no benefit at all zero nothing to education.....and you can shout me down and try to insult me all you wish....I believe otherwise...

You can believe all you want it won't change the facts. This money is wasted and if you are happy with providing "a little benefit" when the money they are spending if utilized correctly could provide huge benefits to a great many students, well what does that say about you?

I truly do hope you are still around spouting these crazed opinions when this thing either is scraped (possible) or fails miserably (very likely) and we can start adding up all that wasted money and wonder why oh why did the Thai gov't not listen to all the experts in the IT industry (of which the gov't is not) telling them how poor an idea this is and how best to spend the money to benefit the eduction system as a whole not one grade.

Let me suggest that companies like ZTE will not be sitting around saying it will not work, they will be looking to ascertain what the expectancy level is and racking their brains on how to deliver accordingly.

Goodness you are tying your hopes to ZTE, haha.. ok you are further out there in left field than I thought.

I simply don't understand your mindset.. I wish you could explain it but I know you can't because you don't know either, you are simply being a contrarian for the sake of being one. Why do you think it makes sense to attempt to do something that has never been proven can be done, in the one in a million chance it might provide some minor benefit to some 6 year old somewhere in Thailand. When with the money being spent they could provide an improved technology experience for ALL students.. I just can't fathom why your vision is so narrow minded. More so as you claim to have kids that have benefited from the use of technology. Baffling to say the least.

[473geo]

Ok

Here is the spec.....a stand alone tool to enhance the learning capabilities and introduce children to technology on an individual basis......not too stiff for your IT team to come up with a solution...out of the tons provided.

I'll give you a few pointers from our Tvisa team to guide you:

This equipment cannot be given to the charge of a person with parents, they will just sell it,

The equipment cannot be taken out of the class room as the rain will finish it

The equipment cannot be left in the classroom or some enterprising theif will steal it

We assume once delivered the users are on their own - no support

The equipment must be virtually unbreakable

Doubtful if there will internet connection services available

Electricity supply will be intermittent

There will be no power outlets on the desktops too dangerous

Let me know what you come up with

[TAWP]

'Books' would handle most points and be far less costly to replace if needed.

[473geo]

'Books' would handle most points and be far less costly to replace if needed.

Sorry tawp no good only a partial fix and do not fill the introduction to technology at all...........but a worthy try and as a back up worth consideration.....if the advancement was to continue at a more relaxed pace

[TAWP]

'Books' would handle most points and be far less costly to replace if needed.

Sorry tawp no good only a partial fix and do not fill the introduction to technology at all...........but a worthy try and as a back up worth consideration.....if the advancement was to continue at a more relaxed pace

As your list is an nonsensical construct of no value, I don't really care if you deem it to fully satisfy your needs - it does for me.

[473geo]

'Books' would handle most points and be far less costly to replace if needed.

Sorry tawp no good only a partial fix and do not fill the introduction to technology at all...........but a worthy try and as a back up worth consideration.....if the advancement was to continue at a more relaxed pace

As your list is an nonsensical construct of no value, I don't really care if you deem it to fully satisfy your needs - it does for me.

Strange you should say that tawp, the list is drawn from the objections to the tablet in this very thread.........

[TAWP]

Strange you should say that tawp, the list is drawn from the objections to the tablet in this very thread.........

No, it is a list created by someone that doesn't understand the context each point was written in nor the argument in question.

And as there is no requirement for any introduction to technology for 6 year old's, hence the 'books' option cannot fail for that reason.

Aaanyway...