Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies Of 169 Missing Red-Shirts

[Ricardo]

You have accidentally attributed my post (the first-line from 'Public' to 'mistake') to Ozmick.

So presumably it's me, that you call "the usual suspects", and say "rage and foam about Robert Amsterdam" ?

I can reassure you, that I'm not raging or foaming, as I'm not a paid rabid twister-of-perceptions, just an ordinary straight observer, who had the sense not to go overboard, but waited for further details, when this story first broke. I have also never claimed that "the reds murdered themselves etc". Do you accept this ?

The current situation here, with the country split down-the-middle, on Thaksin and on how to improve life for the poor, is ill-served by such jumping-to-conclusions, by a paid-hack on another continent or by anyone else. IMO he should be ashamed of himself.

It also bothers me, the effect such propaganda may have had, on the feelings of anyone whose family-member may have gone missing. But perhaps I'm just raging and foaming again ?

Sorry about that.Don't quite know what happened.

No I don't think of you as one of the usual suspects, nor do I think you believe the Reds murdered themselves.

I'm fairly agnostic on Amsterdam though I appreciate he drives some into a tantrum.He's shown up some of the abuses of the elite, but he is as you say "paid for".A useful second tier source of info but I would never rely on him.

Thank-you. :jap:

[Scott]

One post in all caps has been deleted. No need to shout.

[PoorSucker]

Missing red-shirts.

I think Arisman been spotted in Cambodia.

[virtualtraveller]

This whole thing is a politically motivated charade. The math simply doesn't add up. IF there are indeed Red shirts 'missing' from last year, the UDD would know exactly how many, and Thida - forever tripping on her own tongue of mis-intelligence and information - has come out with 90, far short of the the 169 found at the site. So it seems like a very unlikely connection from the start. Ask for an investigation by all means, but the more you try to make a story out of it the more stupid you look when it transpires that these bodies are from another event. Just another shameless attempt to discredit the military, we don't even know for sure if there are 90 missing persons and if they are at all dead.

[plumeria]

Four points:

1) Whenever I have been personally familiar with the details of a news story or have even been the source supplying the eye-witness information to the Bangkok Post, the published story has been very unfaithful to the facts.

2) The current "news team" at the Bangkok Post now appear to be just like the rest of the Thai newspaper industry which is very much "agenda driven" like Fox News and even the new Fox News of Europe -- the BBC. Extremely important news is casually overlooked when not in the best interests of Bangkok Post advertisers.

All news sources should be read/watched/listened to with a fair measure of disbelief & skepticism.

3) Thais invariably tend toward cremation. Why keep evidence around in graves when cremation is so easily available and practiced? That is REALLY suspicious.

4) No need to go far for expertise. The Vietnamese did the CSI of Pol Pot's Killing Fields and are very expert at working through piles of millions of dead people in mass graves.

[MAJIC]

I urge those that may jump to conclusions that these are redshirt s to allow the police to investigate as it is quite normal do to a body dump.

That being said, if these people do turn out to be redshirts, the response of some people in TVF will be interesting.

Totally agree. Equally if they are proved not to be red shirts, lets hope all the pro reds stop gobbing off also.

We dont need to gob off we won. If they are proved to be some red shirts in the hole I pray some of the pro useless dem ex gov do stop gobbing off. If some are red how can anybody gob off in support of murderers.

"We won" so are you a Thai? or just another western wannabe?

[sbk]

Post deleted, lets drop inflammatory personal attacks, you can certainly make your point without doing so.

[animatic]

Hard to NOT believe this many were unclaimed; considering how 'careful Thais are about safety'.... and how many leave or are sent from families for a variety of reasons never to return...

165 people died, 1 / 406,060th of the population and were never claimed or just their identity never determined, so no family connections were made and the bodies never claimed. Not to mention the undocumented workers from other countries who die regularly. Hard not to believe this could happen from vehicle accidents alone, or yabaa accidents or bar fights or just falling down inebriated.

Death rate: 7.29 deaths/1,000 population (July 2011 est.)

67 million / 1,000 = 67,000 thousands

x 7.29 deaths per thousand =

488,430 deaths in Thailand per year

165 deaths equals 1 / 2,960th of all deaths.

Hard not to believe that percentage goes unclaimed, since that parallels Potters Field burial rates in other countries too.

ALSO EASY TO BELIEVE IN THE LAND OF SCAMS,

that the Red sympathizing police might see this as an opportunity for revenge on the Dems or Army Generals/Colonels etc. Or at least keep them on the back foot for awhile. It's long known that Police and Army vie for graft as much as any two groups, and will HAPPILY stab each others backs if possible.

Now with a change of masters, it becomes time for another faction to rise up and try to permanently slap down its enemies. So this is just another cynical political game using the deceased indigent to cement power and take revenge yet again.

So clearly, reserving judgment and not jumping on ANY band wagon is the prudent choice, if not the politically expedient one.

But this also gives a hint of what kind of fecal hurricane will be hitting Thailand soon.

Edited August 20, 2011 by animatic

[kraplung]

No muslim lawyer in amongst them then?

[longway]

You have accidentally attributed my post (the first-line from 'Public' to 'mistake') to Ozmick.

So presumably it's me, that you call "the usual suspects", and say "rage and foam about Robert Amsterdam" ?

I can reassure you, that I'm not raging or foaming, as I'm not a paid rabid twister-of-perceptions, just an ordinary straight observer, who had the sense not to go overboard, but waited for further details, when this story first broke. I have also never claimed that "the reds murdered themselves etc". Do you accept this ?

The current situation here, with the country split down-the-middle, on Thaksin and on how to improve life for the poor, is ill-served by such jumping-to-conclusions, by a paid-hack on another continent or by anyone else. IMO he should be ashamed of himself.

It also bothers me, the effect such propaganda may have had, on the feelings of anyone whose family-member may have gone missing. But perhaps I'm just raging and foaming again ?

Sorry about that.Don't quite know what happened.

No I don't think of you as one of the usual suspects, nor do I think you believe the Reds murdered themselves.

I'm fairly agnostic on Amsterdam though I appreciate he drives some into a tantrum.He's shown up some of the abuses of the elite, but he is as you say "paid for".A useful second tier source of info but I would never rely on him.

I would consider him a useful second tier source of information the same way I would consider the result of wiping my arse on a bit of toilet paper a useful second tier source of information. They are both about the same; some shit on a bit of paper.

I am pretty sure that if you cut off his head it would not make any difference to his job, he would just continue talking out of his arse, same could be said for many though.

[Lite Beer]

Abbots interviewed over bodies at 3 temples

By The Nation on Sunday

A large number of people went to three temples in this province yesterday to see tightly guarded graves where at least 165 bodies were buried as police interviewed abbots and charity foundation officials to determine how the bodies got there and who they may be.

Investigators from Kram and Klaeng police stations started questioning at least 10 people including three abbots from Wat Samorphrong, Wat Khlong Ta-kwaa and Wat Huai Yang, who allowed the corpses to be buried and Klaeng Buddhism Welfare Association officials who brought the bodies of "people with no known relatives" for burial. Wat Samorphrong abbot Phra Kittisopon Pipat told police the association asked to bury 36 corpses of tsunami victims at the temple's cemetery.

Pheu Thai Party spokesperson Prompong Nopparit urged police and the Department of Special Investigation to seriously probe the case because it didn't believe the corpses some victims were from tropical storm Gay, which hit Chumphon in 1989. He said complaints were given to Interior Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit and Pheu Thai Party secretary-general Jarupong Ruangsuwan to check on the corpses and whether they may be people allegedly missing after the red-shirt riots last year. Prompong said a team working to check on the corpses would meet on Thursday after the party decided on its policy.

-- The Nation 2011-08-21

[ianf]

The whole report sounds fishy to me. I can believe the part that monks may not have known what was going on at their temple (they didn't acknowledge the multiple fetus stored for many months, and many wats have feral dogs which monks are adept at not noticing). However, I cannot believe so many dead bodies could be moved around without raising alarms, ....even in the land of 'mai pen rai.'

Some mentioned Rohinga or Burmese - which sounds slightly plausible. Or other SE Asians hired by the Thaksin machine which fueled the Bkk riots or 2009 and 2010, and, if killed, were expendable in their view.

This could all be filed under 'False Stories' until we hear more. Too often in Thailand, there are inflamatory stories - which turn out to be either badly reported or just plain false. - like the recent report of a Thai gang of near dozen members who brutally murdered a Swede - which turned out to be false on several counts. Even numbers can't always be relied upon when spoken. in Thai, the number 11 sounds almost identical to the number 18. And have you ever looked closely at numbers written by a Thai? a number one looks like a seven, and a number four could look like a nine or a zero or a six, or......who knows? Who teaches the kids how to write numbers? Add to that, the word for 'far' (glai) sounds almost identical to the word for 'near' (glai). Imagine if there were Thai soldiers in a forward trench, attempting to call back artillery aiming adjustments on a nearby target. The soldier says 'glai', and the gunner thinks 'close' rather than 'far' and 'KA_BOOM!" ......game over.

The Thai Visa notification in my Hotmail inbox headlined: "169 bodies of re-shirts found in mass graces; Fire safety checks...." etc

Interesting eh? Here is Thai Visa making wild claims that do not carry the word 'alleged' or 'suspected' as if the above statement is fact`. And yet if us mere punters (or posters) posted say a quote with exactly stating the source we are kicked out of existence.

This was a poor editorial choice by Thai Visa and one that should never have occurred.

Off course there is no evidence and one of the monks is now alleged to have said that these were not red shirt bodies.

Also, how many red shirts disappeared during their riots? There have been no real news stories about the disappeared such as there has been about those that disappeared in Uruguay under Pinochet. No pictures of sad husbands/wives/parents etc asking where their relative is? Actually, yes, I saw one story in Chiang Mai. And that was because she was the wife of a farang.

thai is a tonal language and even if the word is spelt the same it is spoken differently so there are on errors maybe if you listened to them speak you would know this uless of course your tone deaf.

[animatic]

Seems no one sprung for cremation fees. Sounds like the indigent unidentified to me.

If the army really was dumping 'Red Bodies' after 2009's riots, no doubt a serious bonfire in the jungle would be organized and not a trace left, even if napalm was needed and bones ground. Not hard to do even for one platoon. But the reds screamed about killings and lost people over and over again, none ever turned up, they needed to recycle those accusations, even if just to give the leaders credibility.

And when the bodies do not tie to 2009 riots, they will just scream cover up anyway. Truth is a subjective commodity in Thailand, it usually goes to the highest bidder, or the least moral one.

Edited August 21, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

Pheu Thai Party spokesperson Prompong Nopparit urged police and the Department of Special Investigation to seriously probe the case because it didn't believe the corpses some victims were from tropical storm Gay, which hit Chumphon in 1989. He said complaints were given to Interior Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit and Pheu Thai Party secretary-general Jarupong Ruangsuwan to check on the corpses and whether they may be people allegedly missing after the red-shirt riots last year. Prompong said a team working to check on the corpses would meet on Thursday after the party decided on its policy.

By now how many teams do we have 'working' on the corpses ? Do they (the teams that is) need to queue up for examination? Wouldn't it be better to have a single team with some dealing with the paperwork investigation and interrogation of those involved and some dealing with the corpses?

With no corpses dug up yet, we already have various numbers of the totals, gender type, year of burial, color, etc., etc.

I'm only surprise no one has suggested yet that k. Thaksin could help in the investigation, being ex-policeman and all that

[hammered]

Has any evidence of who these people actually are turned up yet or is it still various charracters making contradictory statements?

Genuine question

[whybother]

Has any evidence of who these people actually are turned up yet or is it still various charracters making contradictory statements?

Genuine question

The other paper has a confirmation that they were from Chumphon having been there for 5 years, with the expected statement by a PTP spokesman that there could have been red shirts thrown in with them.

[rubl]

Has any evidence of who these people actually are turned up yet or is it still various charracters making contradictory statements?

Genuine question

The other paper has a confirmation that they were from Chumphon having been there for 5 years, with the expected statement by a PTP spokesman that there could have been red shirts thrown in with them.

plus the odd missing lawyer and environmentalist

[TAWP]

Has any evidence of who these people actually are turned up yet or is it still various charracters making contradictory statements?

Genuine question

Don't let the lack of conclusions stop you or your friends from making outraging accusations.

With the basic 'ok, I was wrong this time but if it happens again I think I will be right'-apologies if found to be completely up the creek...

Edited August 21, 2011 by TAWP

[welbymd]

So anybody can bring a body(s) to the temple and drop it off?

So how many so called "red shirts" are missing? Maybe all the so called missing are hiding from the law? Seems to me that forensic science can pinpoint some possible date for the bodies. An interesting story to keep tabs on......

[moe666]

It seems that PTP want to use this as a distraction to take the heat off dear brother and his on going drama. They have been told that the bodies are to old to be from last year but they are insisting that some of the red shirts could have been dumped. I think they should talk to red shirt bosses and find out where they dunped the fed up proyesters who where trying to leave but had to be silenced.

Edited August 21, 2011 by moe666

[Siam Simon]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

[rubl]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

Dear Simon, I can agree with most, but the very last sentence spoils it. The very mentioning of 'mass-murder by the military' indicates you're not really objective. The topic indicates that one or two years ago around 165 bodies were buried, having been moved from elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less. Why the mention of a real/fake mass-murder by the military? What would you say if I mentioned 'at this moment there is no indication that any of the bodies might be related to brutally murdered yellow-shirts, from the time when the police was acting on the previous PM's Samak/Somchai's orders.'?

(edit: correct: Sonmchai -> Somchai)

Edited August 21, 2011 by rubl

[Siam Simon]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

Dear Simon, I can agree with most, but the very last sentence spoils it. The very mentioning of 'mass-murder by the military' indicates you're not really objective. The topic indicates that one or two years ago around 165 bodies were buried, having been moved from elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less. Why the mention of a real/fake mass-murder by the military? What would you say if I mentioned 'at this moment there is no indication that any of the bodies might be related to brutally murdered yellow-shirts, from the time when the police was acting on the previous PM's Samak/Somchai's orders.'?

(edit: correct: Sonmchai -> Somchai)

Dear uncle Rubl, I know it's late in Thailand, but please pay better attention. This particular story is so strange, I'm nowhere near forming any opinions on it. That's why I inserted the proviso "(however genuine or fake)".

[rubl]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

Dear Simon, I can agree with most, but the very last sentence spoils it. The very mentioning of 'mass-murder by the military' indicates you're not really objective. The topic indicates that one or two years ago around 165 bodies were buried, having been moved from elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less. Why the mention of a real/fake mass-murder by the military? What would you say if I mentioned 'at this moment there is no indication that any of the bodies might be related to brutally murdered yellow-shirts, from the time when the police was acting on the previous PM's Samak/Somchai's orders.'?

(edit: correct: Sonmchai -> Somchai)

Dear uncle Rubl, I know it's late in Thailand, but please pay better attention. This particular story is so strange, I'm nowhere near forming any opinions on it. That's why I inserted the proviso "(however genuine or fake)".

Young master Simon, you still didn't get it, it seems. Why was there a need to mention 'mass-murder by the military' even with the proviso 'genuine/fake'? Why even mention 'mass-murder' for what it matters?

In my opinion, taking into account the minimal level of information concerning the possible dead bodies, it seems unlikely (within the amount of evidence currently available and seemingly logically positioned) we are able to say or indicate more than that some temple administration shown us by abbots, seems to indicate that a number of less than 200 bodies have been buried, bodies of people who did not, repeat did not die in or around these temple complexes. Furthermore the questions asked by concerned red-shirt representatives and other interested persons or representatives of concerned organizations, indicate that there is a possibility that one. or more or maybe a few of the bodies buried may be from know people, who may or may not have had a fancy for a certain colour in their apparel. We are in process of determining some more exact facts, like a.)less/more than 200 bodies, b.)buried less/more than two years ago, 3.)gender, 4.)relation with the elite based on state of teeth, 5.)significance of photos carried bearing k. Thaksin's image.

The only proviso I would like to put here is IMHO

[Siam Simon]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

Dear Simon, I can agree with most, but the very last sentence spoils it. The very mentioning of 'mass-murder by the military' indicates you're not really objective. The topic indicates that one or two years ago around 165 bodies were buried, having been moved from elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less. Why the mention of a real/fake mass-murder by the military? What would you say if I mentioned 'at this moment there is no indication that any of the bodies might be related to brutally murdered yellow-shirts, from the time when the police was acting on the previous PM's Samak/Somchai's orders.'?

(edit: correct: Sonmchai -> Somchai)

Dear uncle Rubl, I know it's late in Thailand, but please pay better attention. This particular story is so strange, I'm nowhere near forming any opinions on it. That's why I inserted the proviso "(however genuine or fake)".

Young master Simon, you still didn't get it, it seems. Why was there a need to mention 'mass-murder by the military' even with the proviso 'genuine/fake'? Why even mention 'mass-murder' for what it matters?

In my opinion, taking into account the minimal level of information concerning the possible dead bodies, it seems unlikely (within the amount of evidence currently available and seemingly logically positioned) we are able to say or indicate more than that some temple administration shown us by abbots, seems to indicate that a number of less than 200 bodies have been buried, bodies of people who did not, repeat did not die in or around these temple complexes. Furthermore the questions asked by concerned red-shirt representatives and other interested persons or representatives of concerned organizations, indicate that there is a possibility that one. or more or maybe a few of the bodies buried may be from know people, who may or may not have had a fancy for a certain colour in their apparel. We are in process of determining some more exact facts, like a.)less/more than 200 bodies, b.)buried less/more than two years ago, 3.)gender, 4.)relation with the elite based on state of teeth, 5.)significance of photos carried bearing k. Thaksin's image.

The only proviso I would like to put here is IMHO

Uncle rubl, my reference to mass murder by the military however genuine or fake refers to the subject matter of this thread. Argue with admin if you don't like that, or you and I can have a pointless semantics argument if you like. I'd prefer not to. I made it clear that I have not formed an opinion on this matter, and half-an-hour later I still haven't .

[rubl]

Uncle rubl, my reference to mass murder by the military however genuine or fake refers to the subject matter of this thread. Argue with admin if you don't like that, or you and I can have a pointless semantics argument if you like. I'd prefer not to. I made it clear that I have not formed an opinion on this matter, and half-an-hour later I still haven't

As it is 03:38AM I hope you forgive me when I say 'plain and utter bullshit'.

The OP mentions "Police will examine the 169 bodies found buried at two temples in Rayong province to determine if they could be the red-shirt protesters said to have gone missing during last year's riots." and at least the following 300 posts DO NOT mention 'mass murder by the military', not real/fake, no not at all.

The very fact that you see it necessary to mention 'mass murder by military' even without the 'real/fake' seems to indicate a prejudice. You started on the right tone 'Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story' and it seems you got lost in the spin you were maybe trying to avoid. You may not have made up your mind, but still saw it necssary to bring up 'mass-murder' without any reason to do so, unless you did make up your mind and feel it might really be a possibility. Did you miss the correction Robert A. made about his original facebook item on this, about a day before the Thai newspapers reported and this topic was created?

From the very first reply to the original topic till now lots of people has speculated, insinuated, suggested, plainly told 'must be Abhisit, the Dem's, Suthep, etc.'. As it seemed less likely it had anything to do with the last two years unrest, the plain insinuations started, 'maybe a few red-shirts hidden amongst them', still without a single shred of evidence. Till now no bodies have even been dug up (as far as I know), still some suggest there must be a (previous) government burial of fact (pun intended).

Keep speculating, keep mentioning 'mass-murder' real or fake, there are always those who wish to believe what they wish to believe. No need for proof, fools pointing the way is enough

[Siam Simon]

Uncle rubl, my reference to mass murder by the military however genuine or fake refers to the subject matter of this thread. Argue with admin if you don't like that, or you and I can have a pointless semantics argument if you like. I'd prefer not to. I made it clear that I have not formed an opinion on this matter, and half-an-hour later I still haven't

As it is 03:38AM I hope you forgive me when I say 'plain and utter bullshit'.

The OP mentions "Police will examine the 169 bodies found buried at two temples in Rayong province to determine if they could be the red-shirt protesters said to have gone missing during last year's riots." and at least the following 300 posts DO NOT mention 'mass murder by the military', not real/fake, no not at all.

The very fact that you see it necessary to mention 'mass murder by military' even without the 'real/fake' seems to indicate a prejudice. You started on the right tone 'Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story' and it seems you got lost in the spin you were maybe trying to avoid. You may not have made up your mind, but still saw it necssary to bring up 'mass-murder' without any reason to do so, unless you did make up your mind and feel it might really be a possibility. Did you miss the correction Robert A. made about his original facebook item on this, about a day before the Thai newspapers reported and this topic was created?

From the very first reply to the original topic till now lots of people has speculated, insinuated, suggested, plainly told 'must be Abhisit, the Dem's, Suthep, etc.'. As it seemed less likely it had anything to do with the last two years unrest, the plain insinuations started, 'maybe a few red-shirts hidden amongst them', still without a single shred of evidence. Till now no bodies have even been dug up (as far as I know), still some suggest there must be a (previous) government burial of fact (pun intended).

Keep speculating, keep mentioning 'mass-murder' real or fake, there are always those who wish to believe what they wish to believe. No need for proof, fools pointing the way is enough

No, I won't forgive you when you say 'plain and utter bullshit'. The title of this thread is "Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies Of 169 Missing Red-Shirts". The clear inference, which I have made a point of distancing myself from, is that these are dead red-shirts killed by the army.

Now, stop being a bore and go to bed, otherwise we're going to end up not being friends. I dislike pedants very much, and I never had you down as one previously.

[Buchholz]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

Dear Simon, I can agree with most, but the very last sentence spoils it. The very mentioning of 'mass-murder by the military' indicates you're not really objective. The topic indicates that one or two years ago around 165 bodies were buried, having been moved from elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less. Why the mention of a real/fake mass-murder by the military? What would you say if I mentioned 'at this moment there is no indication that any of the bodies might be related to brutally murdered yellow-shirts, from the time when the police was acting on the previous PM's Samak/Somchai's orders.'?

Indeed, while purporting to not having formed an opinion, his last bit attempts to re-associate the original "spin", that he refers to, by reinforcing the notion of the title, "169 Missing Red-Shirts"

.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Buchholz

[whybother]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

The spin has already been done and has been successful. The aim wasn't for anything politically substantive to come from it, seeing as there was absolutely no evidence of there being any red shirts, and actually all evidence pointing to there NOT being any red shirts buried there.

The aim was to plant the idea that they ARE mass graves of red shirts or that there ARE mass graves of red shirts out there somewhere. Even though the story was effectively retracted by R.A. the red shirts and the PTP are still talking up the idea that there are missing red shirts buried there.

[whybother]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

The spin has already been done and has been successful. The aim wasn't for anything politically substantive to come from it, seeing as there was absolutely no evidence of there being any red shirts, and actually all evidence pointing to there NOT being any red shirts buried there.

The aim was to plant the idea that they ARE mass graves of red shirts or that there ARE mass graves of red shirts out there somewhere. Even though the story was effectively retracted by R.A. the red shirts and the PTP are still talking up the idea that there are missing red shirts buried there.