Looking To Buy A 1-2 Bed Condo

[DEVATSAR]

HIi all

My son is looking to buy 1-2 bedroom condo in Pattaya, he fell in love with the place and wants a to buy ( not rent) "holiday home" so he ca visit his old dad and possibly rent out when he isn't there. Does anybody now a decent "estate agent" in the area for starters ?

Anyone to avoid ??

I know there are a mulitude of estate agents out there but trying to narrow the field a bit through the forum.

Budget of about 1.70000 baht, ( 1.7 million)

His not really bothered if its not its new as long it is a reasonable walking distance from beach.

How much would you expect legal fees etc to be ?

Any help greatly appreciated

Cheers

Paul

[Darrel]

Have a look in the Pattaya forum (to where this thread will probably be moved soon).

Masses of relevant threads and info in there.

[craigt3365]

Bingo! We'll move this over to the Pattaya forum. I recommend Alan Bolton:

http://www.pattaya-property.net/

And this site as it has a great map of the area with all the housing/condo developments...though I did find the listings on this site a bit out of date:

http://www.jomtien-property.com/index.php?p=index

I would also recommend you search the Pattaya forum. There are several threads there discussing this right now. Also...IMHO...you son might be best off to rent for a year first before buying???

[Darrel]

This is a good site:

http://www.pattayacondoguide.com/

It has listings from various agents (most of which are out of date, as usual , but that's the agents' fault) and also has a guide to individual buildings

[toenail]

I'll bring this up ....Why does your son have to "buy" a condo? Depends how often he shows up, but he may be better to put the money in a savings account and just pay the rent when he arrives. If he thinks he will be able to easily to rent it out-- no. If he thinks he will be able to sell it more (if the condo isn't on the beach) -no.

[Phil Conners]

I've owned condos here for the purpose of renting them out, short or long term, and there is a lot more work involved than I expected.

I recently came across these guys who will mortgage 70% of your condo purchase (30% down payment) and make a contract to rent it from you long term for a price that will about cover your mortgage cost.

They have their own network to maintain and rent out the condo to tourists from Scandinavia and Russia. Perhaps your son could arrange something to have the condo available during his stays here.

[DEVATSAR]

I'll bring this up ....Why does your son have to "buy" a condo? Depends how often he shows up, but he may be better to put the money in a savings account and just pay the rent when he arrives. If he thinks he will be able to easily to rent it out-- no. If he thinks he will be able to sell it more (if the condo isn't on the beach) -no.

Thanks for the reply

He wants to buy a condo for the following reasons..........

He "may" live out here in the future"

He wants a base out here so friends/family can come here when they want.

More importantly he can readily afford it (lucky boy !)

He "may" rent it out to known associates

He is not tooooooo bothered about selling etc if it all goes tits up in the future

Great position to be in really (i wish I had that option when I was his age)

Cheers

Paul

[ericg1953]

You should contact Stu Sutton at Jomtien Properties. He is great to work with and has been here a long time and has a great reputation..Knowledgeable and not pushy at all..His office is located on Thappraya Rd in Jomtien near the entrance to View Talay 2 Condos

[MJCM]

................. I recommend Alan Bolton:

http://www.pattaya-property.net/

.............................

+1

[craigt3365]

................. I recommend Alan Bolton:

http://www.pattaya-property.net/

.............................

+1

Just so I'm not being accused of working for Alan, I bought my current house directly from him. It was a pleasure dealing with him. Stand up guy. I've never owned property in a foreign country before, and he was great at explaining ALL the details.

[wpcoe]

You should contact Stu Sutton at Jomtien Properties. He is great to work with and has been here a long time and has a great reputation..Knowledgeable and not pushy at all..His office is located on Thappraya Rd in Jomtien near the entrance to View Talay 2 Condos

I'm happy to hear a recommendation for Stu. I bought my condo from him 6+ years ago when he was pretty much a rookie working for Premier Properties. He was very down to earth and honest in expressing his opinions. I think he learned a lot from Supaap Wade at Premier.

[Danlo]

Best bet is to go to Pattaya and search around and avoid the estate agents as they are after a big cut.

Just go round the condo blocks in areas you like to buy and there in the lobby are boards with many places for sale with photos and phone numbers

[PattayaPhom]

Best bet is to go to Pattaya and search around and avoid the estate agents as they are after a big cut.

Just go round the condo blocks in areas you like to buy and there in the lobby are boards with many places for sale with photos and phone numbers

Not so.............seller pays commission from price achieved, its unfounded comments like this that confuse people and then they end up trying to buy alone and getting ripped off by an unscrupulous owner that disappears with their deposit. Use an agent and they assist in the whole buying process, ensuring deposits are held safely, title deeds etc are all in order.

[Darrel]

Not so.............seller pays commission from price achieved, its unfounded comments like this that confuse people and then they end up trying to buy alone and getting ripped off by an unscrupulous owner that disappears with their deposit. Use an agent and they assist in the whole buying process, ensuring deposits are held safely, title deeds etc are all in order.

Sorry, but that's the sort of thing that only an agent would say.

Commission comes out of the sale price, yes, but if there is no agent, and no commission, then the sale price should be correspondingly lower. If it isn't then it can at least be negotiated down by the same amount.

And given the totally absurd commission rates that some agents seem to think they are worth (quite erroneously), that can make a big difference. My personal opinion is that any commission over 2% is completely unwarranted, no matter where in the world the property is.

Out of the 200+ agents in Pattaya, I doubt if there are more than 10 who are in any way trustworthy or competent, and the other 190+ are more than likely just to pocket the deposit themselves and vanish into the night, probably also owing several months back-rent on their shop-house office.

Many (most?) agents here seem to just pass the deposit on to the vendor anyway, so where is the security in that?

In a country where a sale can be transacted within a day of a price being agreed, I see no obvious reason for a deposit to be paid at all, unless the vendor makes a similar deposit and both deposits go to some third-party escrow that is not connected in any way with the buyer, the vendor or the agent. Oddly enough, that idea doesn't seem to generate much enthusiasm with vendors and agents. I wonder why?

Thailand has more than its fair share of crooks and incompetents (farang and indigenous), and most of them seem to get involved with selling property at some time or another. Buyers need to keep their wits about them and a tight hold on their wallets.

[PattayaPhom]

Not so.............seller pays commission from price achieved, its unfounded comments like this that confuse people and then they end up trying to buy alone and getting ripped off by an unscrupulous owner that disappears with their deposit. Use an agent and they assist in the whole buying process, ensuring deposits are held safely, title deeds etc are all in order.

Sorry, but that's the sort of thing that only an agent would say.

Commission comes out of the sale price, yes, but if there is no agent, and no commission, then the sale price should be correspondingly lower. If it isn't then it can at least be negotiated down by the same amount.

And given the totally absurd commission rates that some agents seem to think they are worth (quite erroneously), that can make a big difference. My personal opinion is that any commission over 2% is completely unwarranted, no matter where in the world the property is.

Out of the 200+ agents in Pattaya, I doubt if there are more than 10 who are in any way trustworthy or competent, and the other 190+ are more than likely just to pocket the deposit themselves and vanish into the night, probably also owing several months back-rent on their shop-house office.

Many (most?) agents here seem to just pass the deposit on to the vendor anyway, so where is the security in that?

In a country where a sale can be transacted within a day of a price being agreed, I see no obvious reason for a deposit to be paid at all, unless the vendor makes a similar deposit and both deposits go to some third-party escrow that is not connected in any way with the buyer, the vendor or the agent. Oddly enough, that idea doesn't seem to generate much enthusiasm with vendors and agents. I wonder why?

Thailand has more than its fair share of crooks and incompetents (farang and indigenous), and most of them seem to get involved with selling property at some time or another. Buyers need to keep their wits about them and a tight hold on their wallets.

Running costs of an office, transport, website, staff etc etc etc.....that should warrant a commission payment. If an owner can market their own property and are willing to collect, show around and take care of their customer, then so be it but many owners do not have the time, means or experience so paying commission on the sale is a worldwide and regonised practice. Your opinion will never be changed and you are entitled to that but an agents job is much more involved than just collectiong commission, once you understand that you may appreciate they provide a valuable service to both sellers and buyers.

[Darrel]

Running costs of an office, transport, website, staff etc etc etc.....that should warrant a commission payment.

You misread my post.

I didn't say that commissions aren't deserved. I said that commissions of more than 2% aren't deserved. Agents in the UK seem to manage perfectly well on less than this, why not elsewhere?

The very fact that there are supposedly 200+ agents in Pattaya should be a clear signal that commission rates are far too high.

And when one sees the troop of agents that often accompany every viewing (the vendor's agent, the buyer's agent, the in-between agent who told the buyer's agent about the vendor's agent, all of whom split the commission, and most of them with sweaty palms and dollar signs lighting up their eyes) one wonders quite what a sordid little mess the whole thing is.

[PattayaPhom]

Running costs of an office, transport, website, staff etc etc etc.....that should warrant a commission payment.

You misread my post.

I didn't say that commissions aren't deserved. I said that commissions of more than 2% aren't deserved. Agents in the UK seem to manage perfectly well on less than this, why not elsewhere?

The very fact that there are supposedly 200+ agents in Pattaya should be a clear signal that commission rates are far too high.

And when one sees the troop of agents that often accompany every viewing (the vendor's agent, the buyer's agent, the in-between agent who told the buyer's agent about the vendor's agent, all of whom split the commission, and most of them with sweaty palms and dollar signs lighting up their eyes) one wonders quite what a sordid little mess the whole thing is.

1% commission on 450k condo=4,500 Baht, thats why commissions are higher, in the UK average house prices are a lot more than here. Anyone with basic maths can appreciate that commissions need to be more, and as for sharing information on listings and customers...why not, nothing wrong with that but I have never heard of the scenario you posed happening

[sotsira]

Running costs of an office, transport, website, staff etc etc etc.....that should warrant a commission payment.

You misread my post.

I didn't say that commissions aren't deserved. I said that commissions of more than 2% aren't deserved. Agents in the UK seem to manage perfectly well on less than this, why not elsewhere?

The very fact that there are supposedly 200+ agents in Pattaya should be a clear signal that commission rates are far too high.

And when one sees the troop of agents that often accompany every viewing (the vendor's agent, the buyer's agent, the in-between agent who told the buyer's agent about the vendor's agent, all of whom split the commission, and most of them with sweaty palms and dollar signs lighting up their eyes) one wonders quite what a sordid little mess the whole thing is.

1% commission on 450k condo=4,500 Baht, thats why commissions are higher, in the UK average house prices are a lot more than here. Anyone with basic maths can appreciate that commissions need to be more, and as for sharing information on listings and customers...why not, nothing wrong with that but I have never heard of the scenario you posed happening

I've never seen a condo advertised for 450k, nearly all over 1million, and i agree that agents charge way too much commission. at 5% even the few at 3%.

Also anyone selling has to add 5% to cover that hefty sum, and then there's all the sales taxes which add up to nearly another 5%.

[vpi78]

Running costs of an office, transport, website, staff etc etc etc.....that should warrant a commission payment.

You misread my post.

I didn't say that commissions aren't deserved. I said that commissions of more than 2% aren't deserved. Agents in the UK seem to manage perfectly well on less than this, why not elsewhere?

The very fact that there are supposedly 200+ agents in Pattaya should be a clear signal that commission rates are far too high.

And when one sees the troop of agents that often accompany every viewing (the vendor's agent, the buyer's agent, the in-between agent who told the buyer's agent about the vendor's agent, all of whom split the commission, and most of them with sweaty palms and dollar signs lighting up their eyes) one wonders quite what a sordid little mess the whole thing is.

1% commission on 450k condo=4,500 Baht, thats why commissions are higher, in the UK average house prices are a lot more than here. Anyone with basic maths can appreciate that commissions need to be more, and as for sharing information on listings and customers...why not, nothing wrong with that but I have never heard of the scenario you posed happening

I've never seen a condo advertised for 450k, nearly all over 1million, and i agree that agents charge way too much commission. at 5% even the few at 3%.

Also anyone selling has to add 5% to cover that hefty sum, and then there's all the sales taxes which add up to nearly another 5%.

You're not paying attention then. The low cost Condos include many selling in the 400,000 Baht level. I just bought one myself at Nirun.

Yes, I am happy with the purchase. No, I am not advocating that everyone live there.

Yes, there are others selling at that level.

No, I do not think you would like to live there.

Yes, there are plenty of others interested in living there.

Yes, you know very little about the overall Pattaya rental market.

[Darrel]

1% commission on 450k condo=4,500 Baht, thats why commissions are higher, in the UK average house prices are a lot more than here. Anyone with basic maths can appreciate that commissions need to be more, and as for sharing information on listings and customers...why not, nothing wrong with that but I have never heard of the scenario you posed happening

I didnt say 1%. I said 2%.

As for condos at 450K, there are precious few of those around. Nearly all are advertised at over 1M, most decent ones from 2-3M, and from there the sky's the limit. No shortage of condos at 10M or 20M either, as far as I can see. And some houses are at 40, 50, 60M or more. Many house and condo asking prices in Pattaya and Bangkok approach or even exceed the price of properties in the UK.

To fix a rate at 5% because it gives a suitable return on the cheapest properties and then to charge the same rate on all other more expensive properties also is just a rip-off. It doesn't actually cost any more to show or sell a condo at 10M than it does to sell one at 1M.

And if the 2% mentioned gives too small a return on the cheapest condos, they should impose a minimum sum for the commission, just like banks do with transfer fees.

As for the army of agents, I have experienced this first-hand many times. There is nothing wrong with it per se, if they want to play it like that, but it is not a valid reason for charging high commissions.

Would you happily pay triple service charge for a pizza because they employ several people to serve it when 1 person could do it perfectly well? I don't think you would.

[PattayaPhom]

1% commission on 450k condo=4,500 Baht, thats why commissions are higher, in the UK average house prices are a lot more than here. Anyone with basic maths can appreciate that commissions need to be more, and as for sharing information on listings and customers...why not, nothing wrong with that but I have never heard of the scenario you posed happening

I didnt say 1%. I said 2%.

As for condos at 450K, there are precious few of those around. Nearly all are advertised at over 1M, most decent ones from 2-3M, and from there the sky's the limit. No shortage of condos at 10M or 20M either, as far as I can see. And some houses are at 40, 50, 60M or more. Many house and condo asking prices in Pattaya and Bangkok approach or even exceed the price of properties in the UK.

To fix a rate at 5% because it gives a suitable return on the cheapest properties and then to charge the same rate on all other more expensive properties also is just a rip-off. It doesn't actually cost any more to show or sell a condo at 10M than it does to sell one at 1M.

And if the 2% mentioned gives too small a return on the cheapest condos, they should impose a minimum sum for the commission, just like banks do with transfer fees.

As for the army of agents, I have experienced this first-hand many times. There is nothing wrong with it per se, if they want to play it like that, but it is not a valid reason for charging high commissions.

Would you happily pay triple service charge for a pizza because they employ several people to serve it when 1 person could do it perfectly well? I don't think you would.

May I suggest if you ever need to sell a property, do it yourself as you just cant grasp the fact....by your thinking, a mechanic should charge less labour costs for repairing a mini than a jaguar...afraid life isnt like that.

[Darrel]

May I suggest if you ever need to sell a property, do it yourself

Precisely what I did do last year. I was told by a highly-respected large agent in Europe that my house would never sell at the price I was asking and would only sell for about 25% less (in fact his estimate was over 30% less). 4 weeks later I found a buyer myself for 3% below the asking price, and almost immediately another agent found someone who would pay the full price, plus 2% commission for the agent (or a total of 102% of the asking price).

I accepted that offer, needless to say, but I wasn't surprised that it sold at that price or that the first agent got it completely wrong.

....by your thinking, a mechanic should charge less labour costs for repairing a mini than a jaguar...afraid life isnt like that.

Not at all.

The garages I use charge the same per hour to fix all cars, no matter what the value or brand of the car. Why shouldnt they?

Life is like that.