Monastery/Meditation Centre During Hot Season?

[patient]

I will be visiting Thailand from Dec and have started to prepare an itinerary.

I am looking to attend different monasteries / meditation centres for about a month or so each ie checking different ones out with the view to finding one to ordain/practice. I need to start applying for letters of recommendation so i can use in my visa application (hoping to get a 1 year visa).

Where would be a good place/monastery/meditation centre to be in the hot season - March to May for a white guy from Sydney ie not too extreme. I would even consider going to Burma if that was cooler ie am flexible. I am assuming somewhere high up would be more agreeable but also suspect that many other practitioners move away from their regular monastery during this season too.

All suggestions appreciated.

[fabianfred]

Hi there patient.

First what is your goal....just to get lots of meditation in or to get ordained?

There is no need to ordain to be able to meditate. In fact, I would go as far as saying that you will be able to attend several long retreats, easier and with less ditractions if you remain as a lay person. Ordination brings certain duties and requirements which are a distraction and disrupt your time. Also ordination is not easy nowadays in thailand since the system has been abused in the past by some who were just after a one-year visa so they are much more careful before ordaining people.

As a lay person you would be able to move around to try different places and teachers and methods and climates, but once ordained do not have that freedom at all.

A one-year multiple re-entry visa would be best for you, which can actually get you almost 15 months here if used correctly.

Bangkok area would be very hot and humid most of the year, so perhaps the North would be nicest in the hot season.

Edited August 24, 2011 by fabianfred

[sabaijai]

One caveat with regard to the north is that the air quality can be pretty bad during the hot season, especially in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Son provinces. I don't know about Fang that time of year - same problem in that district, FF? I would imagine so, since it's part of the same overall region affected by the backup of smoke from agricultural burning along Thailand's northwestern mountain ranges.

In March I often find Bangkok to have more breathable air than even a small northern town like Pai. Bangkok also generally has lower daytime temperatures than either the north or the northeast during the peak hot month of April. But very humid, so the perceived temperature isn't necessarily lower.

All in all, I'd say the south may be your best bet that time of year in terms of physical comfort. March, April and May are dry months in the south (in fact, the only dry months), and the temperatures are significantly lower than in central, northern or northeastern Thailand because the region is comparatively closer to the equator.

Wat Suanmok in Chaiya, Surat Thani, and Wat Khao Tham on Ko Pha-Ngan, both offer regular intensive meditation retreats.

Myanmar is pretty hot except in the far north and far northeast, where there aren't any places to practise suitable for foreigners. Sagaing, in the hills near Mandalay, might be OK but I don't know of any monasteries there that offer retreats that time of year. Kyaswa Monastery has retreats in January.

[fabianfred]

This year the hot season was unseasonably wet so they weren't able to set fire to the hills as usual....lovely.

[patient]

First what is your goal....just to get lots of meditation in or to get ordained?

There is no need to ordain to be able to meditate. In fact, I would go as far as saying that you will be able to attend several long retreats, easier and with less ditractions if you remain as a lay person. Ordination brings certain duties and requirements which are a distraction and disrupt your time. Also ordination is not easy nowadays in thailand since the system has been abused in the past by some who were just after a one-year visa so they are much more careful before ordaining people.

As a lay person you would be able to move around to try different places and teachers and methods and climates, but once ordained do not have that freedom at all.

A one-year multiple re-entry visa would be best for you, which can actually get you almost 15 months here if used correctly.

Bangkok area would be very hot and humid most of the year, so perhaps the North would be nicest in the hot season.

Hi FF

Thanks for your observations.

Goal is to ordain. The plan is to visit a number of places to hopefully find a teacher i admire/respect. I am aware that there are a number of sacrifices in ordination including the need to stay put for at least the first 5 years - one more reason to find a supportive environment in all senses eg climate, conditions and most especially teacher.

The thinking about one year visa was to have time to visit a number of monasteries for a good amount of time at each to investigate approaches/styles and teachers. My influence/exposure here in Australia has been from the forest tradition but I dont wish to limit myself although i like their meditation and discipline focus although they all have slight variations on this. Pali and Thai would also be considerations but i can teach myself if the opportunity exists - i suspect in some places that these are not-but i need to go and spend time to know this for myself.

After speaking with consulate here in Australia it seems that it is difficult for me to get a one year visa - i need letters of recommendation as part of my application. Although some suggested to say i would be visiting friends and provide details but i would prefer to be honest when starting out on this phase of my life .

cheers

[patient]

All in all, I'd say the south may be your best bet that time of year in terms of physical comfort. March, April and May are dry months in the south (in fact, the only dry months), and the temperatures are significantly lower than in central, northern or northeastern Thailand because the region is comparatively closer to the equator.

Wat Suanmok in Chaiya, Surat Thani, and Wat Khao Tham on Ko Pha-Ngan, both offer regular intensive meditation retreats.

Myanmar is pretty hot except in the far north and far northeast, where there aren't any places to practise suitable for foreigners. Sagaing, in the hills near Mandalay, might be OK but I don't know of any monasteries there that offer retreats that time of year. Kyaswa Monastery has retreats in January.

Thanks Sabaijai!

Those are some useful suggestions. I will investigate both further although Suan Mok seems to be limited to 10 day retreats - maybe one can stay longer - i am not sure.

Sounds like Myanmar is not such a good idea at that time

cheers

[fabianfred]

By one year visa I mean the multiple re-entry tourist visa.

[Brucenkhamen]

As you are probably going to have to cross the border to renew your visa then I'd recommend going even further south in hot season to Malaysia, there are several good meditation centres, english is good, and the climate is the same all year round.

[moe666]

Try Wat tam wua outside mae Hong Song it is a forest monastary and the abbot has no problem with you staying long time. There is typically a mix of people farang, Chinese, and japanese coming and going. You will be sit up in a hut that is comfortable and clean, two meals a day and all of the meditation you want. At present lots of rain but after oct. should start drying up.

[patient]

As you are probably going to have to cross the border to renew your visa then I'd recommend going even further south in hot season to Malaysia, there are several good meditation centres, english is good, and the climate is the same all year round.

Hi Brucenkhamen

Thanks for the advice. Can you name some centres or suggest where i could find them?

[sabaijai]

Try Wat tam wua outside mae Hong Song it is a forest monastary and the abbot has no problem with you staying long time. There is typically a mix of people farang, Chinese, and japanese coming and going. You will be sit up in a hut that is comfortable and clean, two meals a day and all of the meditation you want. At present lots of rain but after oct. should start drying up.

In a normal year, the district where Wat Tham Wua is found is heavily affected by agricultural burning.

[sabaijai]

All in all, I'd say the south may be your best bet that time of year in terms of physical comfort. March, April and May are dry months in the south (in fact, the only dry months), and the temperatures are significantly lower than in central, northern or northeastern Thailand because the region is comparatively closer to the equator.

Wat Suanmok in Chaiya, Surat Thani, and Wat Khao Tham on Ko Pha-Ngan, both offer regular intensive meditation retreats.

Myanmar is pretty hot except in the far north and far northeast, where there aren't any places to practise suitable for foreigners. Sagaing, in the hills near Mandalay, might be OK but I don't know of any monasteries there that offer retreats that time of year. Kyaswa Monastery has retreats in January.

Thanks Sabaijai!

Those are some useful suggestions. I will investigate both further although Suan Mok seems to be limited to 10 day retreats - maybe one can stay longer - i am not sure.

Sounds like Myanmar is not such a good idea at that time

cheers

The International Meditation Centre adjacent to Wat Suanmok is oriented towards retreats. The wat itself is a full-time monastery that welcomes foreign monks.

[Acutus]

First what is your goal....just to get lots of meditation in or to get ordained?

There is no need to ordain to be able to meditate. In fact, I would go as far as saying that you will be able to attend several long retreats, easier and with less ditractions if you remain as a lay person. Ordination brings certain duties and requirements which are a distraction and disrupt your time. Also ordination is not easy nowadays in thailand since the system has been abused in the past by some who were just after a one-year visa so they are much more careful before ordaining people.

As a lay person you would be able to move around to try different places and teachers and methods and climates, but once ordained do not have that freedom at all.

A one-year multiple re-entry visa would be best for you, which can actually get you almost 15 months here if used correctly.

Bangkok area would be very hot and humid most of the year, so perhaps the North would be nicest in the hot season.

Hi FF

Thanks for your observations.

Goal is to ordain. The plan is to visit a number of places to hopefully find a teacher i admire/respect. I am aware that there are a number of sacrifices in ordination including the need to stay put for at least the first 5 years - one more reason to find a supportive environment in all senses eg climate, conditions and most especially teacher.

The thinking about one year visa was to have time to visit a number of monasteries for a good amount of time at each to investigate approaches/styles and teachers. My influence/exposure here in Australia has been from the forest tradition but I dont wish to limit myself although i like their meditation and discipline focus although they all have slight variations on this. Pali and Thai would also be considerations but i can teach myself if the opportunity exists - i suspect in some places that these are not-but i need to go and spend time to know this for myself.

After speaking with consulate here in Australia it seems that it is difficult for me to get a one year visa - i need letters of recommendation as part of my application. Although some suggested to say i would be visiting friends and provide details but i would prefer to be honest when starting out on this phase of my life .

cheers

The only goal of becoming a monk is to practice Vipassanā and become an Arhat as one tired of the suffering cycle in samsara. Any other purposes is a waste of time.

If you have a problem in getting a one year visa to enter Thailand and looking for practicing Vipassanā, it will be benefit you greatly to go to Myanmar instead. The Myanmar embassy in Canberra can issue a Meditation visa on a request and it could be a one year visa. The simple way is to contact one of the Panditarama temples in Australia as they will be able to help you with a letter that you need to present with your visa application as well as providing you with other advices.

Are you in Sydney? Have a look at this url, "http://www.panditaramasydney.org/". They also have a temple in Melbourne as well.

And below are urls of the meditation centre in Myanmar:

1.

2. http://family.websho...576638212MmxEbt

If you wanted to ask whether it is better to become a monk in Thailand or in Myanmar, an answer is simple. If you wanted to practice Vipassanā, Myanmar is your destination. Currently, to my knowledge, there is no Thai monk known to public who knows and can teach Vipassanā correctly anymore.

Needless to say that to have a good start, one should keep their 5-Precept on a daily basis. Without having 5-Precept (with your respect to them), there is no way to progress, doesn't matter it is Samatha or Vipassanā meditation. Both of them require to have a minimum of 5-Precept. The better your 5-Precept (or 8-Precept or 227-Precept), the easier your practice will be.

However, if you decided that you really want to go to Thailand and become a monk there, as FF said that it is not that easy to become a monk these days, even I am not in Thailand at present but I will be quite happy to offer you a bit of help in becoming a monk in Thailand as well. As FF explained that the system has been abused so they have been more careful but if I was lied to, it was a bad kamma by a person who lied to me and I already made my merit by helping that person so I don't worry about it and always happy to help people

[Brucenkhamen]

Thanks for the advice. Can you name some centres or suggest where i could find them?

Here's a couple I can recommend, the first is very Burmese in style so Acutus would approve.

http://www.penang-traveltips.com/malaysian-buddhist-meditation-centre.htm

http://sasanarakkha.org/

[patient]

The only goal of becoming a monk is to practice Vipassanā and become an Arhat as one tired of the suffering cycle in samsara. Any other purposes is a waste of time.

If you have a problem in getting a one year visa to enter Thailand and looking for practicing Vipassanā, it will be benefit you greatly to go to Myanmar instead. The Myanmar embassy in Canberra can issue a Meditation visa on a request and it could be a one year visa. The simple way is to contact one of the Panditarama temples in Australia as they will be able to help you with a letter that you need to present with your visa application as well as providing you with other advices.

Are you in Sydney? Have a look at this url, "http://www.panditaramasydney.org/". They also have a temple in Melbourne as well.

And below are urls of the meditation centre in Myanmar:

1.

2. http://family.websho...576638212MmxEbt

If you wanted to ask whether it is better to become a monk in Thailand or in Myanmar, an answer is simple. If you wanted to practice Vipassanā, Myanmar is your destination. Currently, to my knowledge, there is no Thai monk known to public who knows and can teach Vipassanā correctly anymore.

Needless to say that to have a good start, one should keep their 5-Precept on a daily basis. Without having 5-Precept (with your respect to them), there is no way to progress, doesn't matter it is Samatha or Vipassanā meditation. Both of them require to have a minimum of 5-Precept. The better your 5-Precept (or 8-Precept or 227-Precept), the easier your practice will be.

However, if you decided that you really want to go to Thailand and become a monk there, as FF said that it is not that easy to become a monk these days, even I am not in Thailand at present but I will be quite happy to offer you a bit of help in becoming a monk in Thailand as well. As FF explained that the system has been abused so they have been more careful but if I was lied to, it was a bad kamma by a person who lied to me and I already made my merit by helping that person so I don't worry about it and always happy to help people

Hi Acutus

Thanks for your advice and good ideas.

I liked the photos of the monastery but the first minutes of the video put me off that monastery - the bashing of the wooden block suggested a lack of confidence in the commitment of the people attending given it went on for 4 minutes! - we all have different bio-rhythms but then i wake up early and easily.

I have been looking at a few places in Burma- my prefence at present is Thailand as i feel that there may be a bit more freedom to move about in Thailand-theoritically if not practially. But i am ignorant on this matter and need to visit different places to discover the reality.

Yes i agree that sila practice is the foundation something that us westerners struggle with - the perceived imposition on our 'freedoms' but i do understand the relationship between sila and the rest of the practice and accept it wholeheartedly - not that i am a good practitioner - jsut striving to be better.

I would love to hear from people here if they agree with Acutus that there are "no Thai monk known to public who knows and can teach Vipassanā correctly anymore." Do people dis/agree? Do you have some examples of great teachers. This really is important to me. Maybe i can find a great teacher in a few years time once my practice is stronger, more stable and subtle...

[patient]

Here's a couple I can recommend, the first is very Burmese in style so Acutus would approve.

http://www.penang-tr...tion-centre.htm

http://sasanarakkha.org/

Thankyou Brucenkhamen. The suggestioned are appreciated

[patient]

The International Meditation Centre adjacent to Wat Suanmok is oriented towards retreats. The wat itself is a full-time monastery that welcomes foreign monks.

Thankyou sabaijai for the clarification. I will add the Wat to my itinerary.

[fabianfred]

I would love to hear from people here if they agree with Acutus that there are "no Thai monk known to public who knows and can teach Vipassanā correctly anymore." Do people dis/agree? Do you have some examples of great teachers. This really is important to me. Maybe i can find a great teacher in a few years time once my practice is stronger, more stable and subtle...

I would disagree that there are no good teachers left in Thailand.

Wat Amphawan, Singhburi is home to Luang Por Jaran who many consider to be Arahant and his centre teaches many each year in the Mahasi Sayadaw method.

The three temples teaching the Ajarn Thong method in Chiangmai uses a similar method with additions (touching points).

There are other Ajarns around....in Lampang etc. I'm sure.

[Brucenkhamen]

I would love to hear from people here if they agree with Acutus that there are "no Thai monk known to public who knows and can teach Vipassanā correctly anymore." Do people dis/agree? Do you have some examples of great teachers. This really is important to me. Maybe i can find a great teacher in a few years time once my practice is stronger, more stable and subtle...

Seems like a pretty narrow minded statement.

Firstly he appears to be assuming Vipassana is a meditation technique, and it appears specifically the Mahasi technique.

Vipassana is the realisation of insight, various techniques that are called Vipassana are designed to realise insight and are known as vipassana techniques, but this is a misuse of the Pali term.

If what he meant to say is that nobody is teaching the Mahasi technique correctly in thailand he might have a point. From what I can tell the generation of Burmese teachers that came to thailand a few years ago has gone, and the thais teach it slightly differently just as the western teachers teach it differently, this was my experience of wat ram poeng. This may or may not be a bad thing but it's worth learning it from a Burmese teacher at some stage to get it how it was originally taught, just don't make the mistake of thinking there is only one correct way of doing it.

[fabianfred]

and the Dynamic meditation method taught by LP Teean which I practice is also Vipassana since it follows the Four Foundations of Mindfulness.

[sabaijai]

Various individuals, not limited to Mahasi Sayadaw, have elaborated different methodologies based on the Mahasatipatthana Sutta. And vipassana is not a practice, but a result. The practice is satipatthana (mindulness development). Vipassana is not the end result. Vipassana - moments of insight - come with sati (awareness/mindfulness), and accumulate to produce paññā (wisdom, discernment, cognitive acuity). When paññā is ripe, nibbana occurs.

The sutta of the four foundations is vague enough to allow for differing methodologies, including no meditation at all.