Someone Is Stealing My Money

[petedk]

Sorry about the topic title but that's the way that i and three other colleagues feel. So I am writing here to ask for some serious and constructive advice.

It's a long story but I'll try and keep it short.

I work at a government university and September last year the foreign teachers were told that we had to join the Thai Social Security plan. We are about ten teachers and two of them were excluded as they were over 60 years old. We others filled in the documents and handed in copies of passports and other relevant documents.

The following month 750 baht was deducted from our salaries. We were told that it would take about 3 months for our cards to arrive but in the meantime all we had to do was show our passport at the chosen hospital if we needed any medical help. After 3 months four of us hadn't received our cards but on asking we were told to wait. This went on for another 3 months and when I tried to go to the hospital I was rejected as there were no records of my registration. Again i complained to my boss and was told to wait.

Eventually a close friend who is Thai managed to contact the Social Security and found out that they had never received our application! I contacted HR at the university and they told me that they had "just received the papers back from Social Security because there were no copies of our work permits". Ok we gave them copies.

Two months later nothing had happened so my Thai friend again contacted Social Security. Still no applications. We four foreign teachers then contacted the dean (much to the anger of our Head of dept.) and asked for her help. A few days later we found out that all the stories they had told us were complete lies and that our HR (actually International Relations) had lost our applications and that we would have to start over again.

Nothing has happened yet and that is about 6 weeks ago.

Meanwhile 750 baht is being deducted from our salaries every month as it "is too difficult to stop the deduction". Asked when we are likely to get our money refunded we were told that that was virtually impossible.

So, I would love to receive some positive advice here.

1. How can we stop them deducting 750 baht from our salaries?

2. The most important.... Is there really nothing we can do to get our money back?

Thanks in advance.

[chiang mai]

Since it appears to be theft, consider filing a police report or at least threaten to do so.

[petedk]

Since it appears to be theft, consider filing a police report or at least threaten to do so.

The trouble is "who is stealing?".. We can't find out where the money is going.

We have been advised by a member of the Thai staff to sue the Finance department for deducting the money.

[chiang mai]

Since it appears to be theft, consider filing a police report or at least threaten to do so.

The trouble is "who is stealing?".. We can't find out where the money is going.

We have been advised by a member of the Thai staff to sue the Finance department for deducting the money.

Suing the Finance Dept works for me. At the highest level it's the University that's stealing and that's the rectors problem, filing a police report against the University or the rector might be one approach.

[petedk]

Since it appears to be theft, consider filing a police report or at least threaten to do so.

The trouble is "who is stealing?".. We can't find out where the money is going.

We have been advised by a member of the Thai staff to sue the Finance department for deducting the money.

Suing the Finance Dept works for me. At the highest level it's the University that's stealing and that's the rectors problem, filing a police report against the University or the rector might be one approach.

Yes, that seems to be the only option.

I forgot to mention one thing. Our employment contracts are up for renewal in September so we are keeping a low profile until we have signed the new contracts.

[Bagwan]

When working as an independent consultant I made it clear that if the cheque was in the post, then I was on the golf course. I loved my job but I only worked for money. Any bar lady will tell you that she has the same attitude.

[kerryk]

When working as an independent consultant I made it clear that if the cheque was in the post, then I was on the golf course. I loved my job but I only worked for money. Any bar lady will tell you that she has the same attitude.

Seems to be a hard concept for some executives in Thailand to understand. I quit two jobs because of the same reason. I told them I don't work for free. I don't care how long I have known them or how nice you are. I work for money. I don't want a house, or consideration for some future event. I want money. I work, you pay what we agreed on or I leave. Simple concept really. I have never found any way around the problem in Thailand except to get another job.

[TerryLH]

The Social Security Office should be able to help you.

I've found them very helpful in several different situation.

[llso]

Maybe it's a "Farang Surcharge"

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Happened to me too. Almost 1 year to get my Thai health card and then it came for a hospital I did not want across town and was told I could not change it.

Have gone there a time or two for service though and it was good

[random]

labour department? can they assist in a matter like this?

[flying]

Can't you just opt out of the SS program?

I would think since you are not a Thai citizen you can claim you have

a SS program in place via your home country. Also you probably already carry your own health insurance no?

[scorecard]

The Social Security Office should be able to help you.

I've found them very helpful in several different situation.

I agree, I have worked in Thailand for several decades, all the time with (several) work permits. And for a major part of that time with social security deductions.

I retired because of age and my last employer contacted the social security office in Din Daeng because I was entitled to a refund, they responded immediately with a complete run down of the deductions for the total time and requested that I visit their office to get a refund. Their e.mail included a map and a mobile number to call if I got lost and mentioning that the person spoke English.

I did visit, and a very pleasant experience, the officers were highly competent, young man who spoke perfect English to help and he stayed with my case until all finished, he was focused, professional and polite.

They checked a few details then said please go and have some coffee and come back in one hour, because they needed to double check their records were totally up to date. And every customer (many people but I was the only farang at that time) were getting the same pleasant and helpful treatment (there were several desks for customers to complete various documents and several staff were assigned to helping these folk and they did it well, and did it pleasantly).

I came back an hour later, the young man I had spoken with earlier spotted me as I walked through the door and quickly asked me to come to the counter, where I received quite a wad of cash and lots of pleasant caring help and smiles.

[scorecard]

Happened to me too. Almost 1 year to get my Thai health card and then it came for a hospital I did not want across town and was told I could not change it.

Have gone there a time or two for service though and it was good

"A hospital across town"

"Can't change it"

I've had Thai social security cards for decades. I just called the admin manager in my old company. She says that the card does not state a specific hospital and she has never in twenty plus years ever heard a SS card which states a specific hospital, because it's a universal card, good to use anywhere in Thailand.

[scorecard]

Since it appears to be theft, consider filing a police report or at least threaten to do so.

The trouble is "who is stealing?".. We can't find out where the money is going.

We have been advised by a member of the Thai staff to sue the Finance department for deducting the money.

Or is it:

- Employer is deducting (as they probably should be doing to follow the appropriate regulations etc.)

- Money is going to the social security office but doesn't get matched to their member list, but there is no follow up.

Let's be realistic, Thai government offices (and in many other counties too) are not that good at follow up, unless there is a very specific procedure to follow. Nobody, in a Thai gov't office would decide out of their own initiative to follow up. In fact they risk a severe smack if they did follow up without specifically being instructed to do so.

[Shipwreck]

Happened to me too. Almost 1 year to get my Thai health card and then it came for a hospital I did not want across town and was told I could not change it.

Have gone there a time or two for service though and it was good

"A hospital across town"

"Can't change it"

I've had Thai social security cards for decades. I just called the admin manager in my old company. She says that the card does not state a specific hospital and she has never in twenty plus years ever heard a SS card which states a specific hospital, because it's a universal card, good to use anywhere in Thailand.

I'm going to have to second Jeffrey's experience. I have had a Thai social security card for almost 7 years now. Its benefits are tied to a specific hospital, and I was told I can only use it at that specific hospital.

My work also gives me private health insurance, which can be used at any hospital. I only use that card when going to a hospital, as my 'social security' hospital is much further away.

The only thing I ever used it for was getting 12k baht back from the government for having a baby. (government employee)

However, I have friends at work who have used it to have major surgery, as apparently it covers almost the whole cost....as long as they went to their specific hospital...

[TerryLH]

"...Thai health card and then it came for a hospital I did not want across town and was told I could not change it."

You can change hospitals you're assigned to IF there is another choice available in your area, and IF it's the right time of year.

There is a period each year, maybe a month long, when you can elect to choose another hospital, if available.

--------

"She says that the card does not state a specific hospital and she has never in twenty plus years ever heard a SS card which states a specific hospital, because it's a universal card, good to use anywhere in Thailand."

She is correct that the actual card itself does not specify a hospital. You'll get something with the card that will give you that info.

They don't issue the cards every year anymore, so it wouldn't make sense to put that info there, because the hospital can change.

It is NOT a 'universal card'that can be used anywhere. At least not normally. It can be used in emergencies, with you paying first and later getting reimbursed. There are strict guidelines outlining that.

In some situations, such as your assigned hospital not providing a specific needed service, you can get a letter from your hospital authorizing another hospital to provide it to you.

I know that works because I've done it.

Under normal times, it is good for only your assigned hospital.

If you lose eligibility for soc sec because of loss of job, working at a place that isn't covered, or whatever, you can continue to get benefits for 6 months without paying. You had to have made payments for 3 months for that to be true.

If you have payed into the system for 12 months and lose eligibility, you can keep paying on your own. It's 432 baht per month and only covers health, not retirement benefits.

You have to sign up for that within 6 months after stopping paying through employment. Easy to sign up, just contact your local soc sec office. They are very efficient.

Most of the bad comments you read or hear about social security will be made by people who don't know anything about the system.

[Ijustwannateach]

It could be considered a criminal violation of the law simply for the university not to have you registered, one that you may be unwittingly party to (in terms of your own responsibility to be signed up to the system considering your employment). It is not optional. Remind your office people about this while you are asking them to focus their minds about where the supposed fees went off to.

[petedk]

Or is it:

- Employer is deducting (as they probably should be doing to follow the appropriate regulations etc.)

- Money is going to the social security office but doesn't get matched to their member list, but there is no follow up.

Let's be realistic, Thai government offices (and in many other counties too) are not that good at follow up, unless there is a very specific procedure to follow. Nobody, in a Thai gov't office would decide out of their own initiative to follow up. In fact they risk a severe smack if they did follow up without specifically being instructed to do so.

Yes I think this is what is happening. The money is being deducted but not going into any particular account at the Social Security. We have asked them to stop deducting the money until the problems are sorted out but they claim it's too difficult.

Can't you just opt out of the SS program?

I would think since you are not a Thai citizen you can claim you have

a SS program in place via your home country. Also you probably already carry your own health insurance no?

No. A few of us didn't want to join in the first place but we were told it was compulsory.

labour department? can they assist in a matter like this?

Yes, that is also one of the possibilities we are considering but we have a doubts that they can help.

We have spoken to Social Security and they were very helpful but as no application has been received they can't do more. They suggested we talk to our accounting department and try to find out where the money is going.

We tried to meet the Accounting Manager (or Finance President as he is called here) but were blocked by his staff. Our Department Head has also said that all communication must go through her. The problem is nothing happens. The money is STILL being deducted.

At the moment we are waiting to sign our yearly contract and then we will probably just march over to the Finance Department and demand to get some kind of response. I know Thai people always say that you should keep calm and be polite to get things done but we have tried that for so long now and nothing is happening.

[petedk]

It could be considered a criminal violation of the law simply for the university not to have you registered, one that you may be unwittingly party to (in terms of your own responsibility to be signed up to the system considering your employment). It is not optional. Remind your office people about this while you are asking them to focus their minds about where the supposed fees went off to.

That's an interesting point. I'll take it up with my colleagues (if they haven't already read this thread )

[moe666]

Get your contract signed, find a friendly cop pay him to come with you to the office I bet things will get sorted out asap. Nothing like the long arm of the law.

[petedk]

Another point coming up is that the university has previously given 8000 baht a year to each member of the foreign staff towards paying for a private health insurance. Now that they have (or should have) introduced us to the social security system they will stop the 8000 baht and deduct the mentioned 750 baht a month.

Our private insurance expires at the beginning of October so at that time we will be uninsured. If we have to pay about 15,000 to 20,000 out of our own pockets (after the 750 baht is also deducted) then that is a considerable expense for us. Remember we are government employees on a (low) government salary.