Yingluck Govt's Proposed Economic Measures Raise Serious Concerns

[Jingthing]

This article is economically illiterate. I will choose just two examples:

1. apparently, when you increase the minimum wage, says our brilliant journalist, it never comes down again. Well, there are many jurisdictions where that is fairly common...and I live in one such: British Columbia, which in 2001 elected a neo-con government which immediately went to work to cut the minimum wage (which it did by 25%).

You are wildly exaggerating! You named ONE case and claimed it is fairly common. No way! I don't think such a thing has EVER happened in the US where a government mandated minimum wage increase has been lowered. I think functionally the comment in the article is correct. Sure, so you named ONE exception in the world. So what?

[anterian]

Farming for fuel not food is a bad idea, encouraging increased consumption of oil derived fuel is a bad idea also. A year from now which will take the biggest bite out of the family budget, fuel or food? Any predictions?

Let's be honest here. This is merely a way to loot an existing cache of money, while penalizing southern voters and southern palm oil producers. That's OK until the world price of oil climbs again, and then there's no reserve to stabilize prices and you'll see prices at the pump never before seen in Thailand.

Forget politics, forget Thailand, this is a global problem, a choice between food or energy. Biofuel is not an sensible response to an energy shortage.

[lannarebirth]

Farming for fuel not food is a bad idea, encouraging increased consumption of oil derived fuel is a bad idea also. A year from now which will take the biggest bite out of the family budget, fuel or food? Any predictions?

Let's be honest here. This is merely a way to loot an existing cache of money, while penalizing southern voters and southern palm oil producers. That's OK until the world price of oil climbs again, and then there's no reserve to stabilize prices and you'll see prices at the pump never before seen in Thailand.

Forget politics, forget Thailand, this is a global problem, a choice between food or energy. Biofuel is not an sensible response to an energy shortage.

The "bio" part of these fuels is entirely produced in Thailand for Thai consumers. You see anyone starving here? Other than as fuel additive, how much cassava or palm oil did you buy last year?

[hammered]

Farming for fuel not food is a bad idea, encouraging increased consumption of oil derived fuel is a bad idea also. A year from now which will take the biggest bite out of the family budget, fuel or food? Any predictions?

Let's be honest here. This is merely a way to loot an existing cache of money, while penalizing southern voters and southern palm oil producers. That's OK until the world price of oil climbs again, and then there's no reserve to stabilize prices and you'll see prices at the pump never before seen in Thailand.

Forget politics, forget Thailand, this is a global problem, a choice between food or energy. Biofuel is not an sensible response to an energy shortage.

The "bio" part of these fuels is entirely produced in Thailand for Thai consumers. You see anyone starving here? Other than as fuel additive, how much cassava or palm oil did you buy last year?

The palm oil increase was down to this to a degree and that certainly upset a lot of people for whom palm oil is a cheap staple cooking oil. Another side is the political issue. Where is most palm oil grown? Government policy that makes bio-fuel cheaper than traditional. Politicians make a killing. New government from a different region. Change policy to end money making. Politics is an expensive game and money is power.

[anterian]

Farming for fuel not food is a bad idea, encouraging increased consumption of oil derived fuel is a bad idea also. A year from now which will take the biggest bite out of the family budget, fuel or food? Any predictions?

Let's be honest here. This is merely a way to loot an existing cache of money, while penalizing southern voters and southern palm oil producers. That's OK until the world price of oil climbs again, and then there's no reserve to stabilize prices and you'll see prices at the pump never before seen in Thailand.

Forget politics, forget Thailand, this is a global problem, a choice between food or energy. Biofuel is not an sensible response to an energy shortage.

The "bio" part of these fuels is entirely produced in Thailand for Thai consumers. You see anyone starving here? Other than as fuel additive, how much cassava or palm oil did you buy last year?

Probably quite a lot and unavoidably, you obviously do not read the ingredients list on the food you buy. Let me quote:

Palm oil is " in 43 of Britain's 100 bestselling grocery brands , representing £6bn of the UK's £16bn annual shopping basket for top brands. If you strip out drinks, pet food and household goods, the picture is starker still: 32 out of 62 of Britain's top foods contain this tree-felling, wildlife-wrecking ingredient.

It's in the top three loaves – Warburtons, Hovis, and Kingsmill – and the bestselling margarines Flora and Clover. It's in Special K, Crunchy Nut Cornflakes, Mr Kipling Cakes, McVitie's Digestives and Goodfella's pizza. It's in KitKat, Galaxy, Dairy Milk and Wrigley's chewing gum. It's in Persil washing powder, Comfort fabric softener and Dove soap. It's also in plenty of famous brands that aren't in the top 100, such as Milkybar, Jordan's Country Crisp and Utterly Butterly. And it's almost certainly in thousands of supermarket own brands."

[lannarebirth]

Let's be honest here. This is merely a way to loot an existing cache of money, while penalizing southern voters and southern palm oil producers. That's OK until the world price of oil climbs again, and then there's no reserve to stabilize prices and you'll see prices at the pump never before seen in Thailand.

Forget politics, forget Thailand, this is a global problem, a choice between food or energy. Biofuel is not an sensible response to an energy shortage.

The "bio" part of these fuels is entirely produced in Thailand for Thai consumers. You see anyone starving here? Other than as fuel additive, how much cassava or palm oil did you buy last year?

Probably quite a lot and unavoidably, you obviously do not read the ingredients list on the food you buy. Let me quote:

Palm oil is " in 43 of Britain's 100 bestselling grocery brands , representing £6bn of the UK's £16bn annual shopping basket for top brands. If you strip out drinks, pet food and household goods, the picture is starker still: 32 out of 62 of Britain's top foods contain this tree-felling, wildlife-wrecking ingredient.

It's in the top three loaves – Warburtons, Hovis, and Kingsmill – and the bestselling margarines Flora and Clover. It's in Special K, Crunchy Nut Cornflakes, Mr Kipling Cakes, McVitie's Digestives and Goodfella's pizza. It's in KitKat, Galaxy, Dairy Milk and Wrigley's chewing gum. It's in Persil washing powder, Comfort fabric softener and Dove soap. It's also in plenty of famous brands that aren't in the top 100, such as Milkybar, Jordan's Country Crisp and Utterly Butterly. And it's almost certainly in thousands of supermarket own brands."

That's good to know, as I would never willingly consume palm oil. I don't tend to eat processed foods, but thanks for that list of foods to avoid.

[NastyNick]

"Yet, given the higher frequency of natural disasters caused by global warming, the entire world is trying to become greener. "

That sentence alone should get the author a prize for honesty in the face of facts.

[nurofiend]

...

When will the people learn?????

The government should be turfed out immediately before it's too late - this is for Thailand's sake and not mine as we will actually benefit from these ludicrously damaging policies as the Baht will sky rocket!!!!

The people will only learn when they have been shown.

Turfing out this government prematurely will just bring out the protesters.

Unfortunately, we need to wait 4 years before they can be turfed out. We will see if they will have learnt by then.

as if, surely there will be a 'justifiable' coup by then and the dems will be back on the throttle

i'm sure theirs plenty of military with the same hunger for 'turfing out' as some posters on this forum, and i would suggest that's a starving hunger

but if the democrats did actually manage to hold out until the next general election then the possibility that this government will have lost a sizeable portion of it's electorate is very open

fat chance of that though, it will be a coup or dissolution before the next general election.

though you'll have to wait 4 years to see if i'm right or not or maybe 3...2....1....maybe even a few months...

[moe666]

Farming for fuel not food is a bad idea, encouraging increased consumption of oil derived fuel is a bad idea also. A year from now which will take the biggest bite out of the family budget, fuel or food? Any predictions?

You are spot on but even forgetting the farming for food argument, it takes more energy to convert this food to a energy source than you save by blending it with your gas. Think about it, this stuff has to be planted, grown, harvested, trucked to a processing plant, reduced to a convertable form, cooked and distilled to alcohol, trucked to blending plant, blended into gasoline, trucked to gas station. All of this requires energy to happen, it just doesn't become alcohol by the touch of Buddha.

[OzMick]

Farming for fuel not food is a bad idea, encouraging increased consumption of oil derived fuel is a bad idea also. A year from now which will take the biggest bite out of the family budget, fuel or food? Any predictions?

You are spot on but even forgetting the farming for food argument, it takes more energy to convert this food to a energy source than you save by blending it with your gas. Think about it, this stuff has to be planted, grown, harvested, trucked to a processing plant, reduced to a convertable form, cooked and distilled to alcohol, trucked to blending plant, blended into gasoline, trucked to gas station. All of this requires energy to happen, it just doesn't become alcohol by the touch of Buddha.

I'm sorry, but this argument is based on mainly US production where corn (starch) is used to produce ethanol, and is out of date. Current figures suggest a return of 1.25 for 1 input, rising to around 1.6 when the energy value of the by-products is considered. This is due to more efficient production methods, to be expected with an infant industry.

However, where sugar cane is used as feedstock (Brazil mainly) returns of 8:1 are being achieved, and trials of cellulose feed (switchgrass and others) are indicating up to 36:1. This is a more complicated and expensive process, and doesn't include transportation which is largely irrelevant as petroleum products face the same if not higher costs.

The energy return on biodiesel is generally accepted as 2.5:1

[Travelman868]

Managing a Country is little different to managing a Company.

So the first lessen must be, would a company pay all it's workers to sit and do nothing.

A company can borrow money but it needs the income to pay that loan back, same goes for a government.

There is talk of giving money to villages. In principal a good idea but only if the money is used for proper projects that are managed. This did not happen before.

I'm sure there are lots of Farangs who could/ would start a business in Thailand BUT not under the current rules. Nobody but a fool would invest their money and give financial control to a third party.

Sometimes Governments forget that all big companies started small.

[SICHONSTEVE]

...

When will the people learn?????

The government should be turfed out immediately before it's too late - this is for Thailand's sake and not mine as we will actually benefit from these ludicrously damaging policies as the Baht will sky rocket!!!!

The people will only learn when they have been shown.

Turfing out this government prematurely will just bring out the protesters.

Unfortunately, we need to wait 4 years before they can be turfed out. We will see if they will have learnt by then.

As things stand, and in the direction they are going, then the same people who voted them in could be the self-same people who want them out!!!

Having said that, their hate for the Democrat party and unwillingness to lose face and admit they were wrong will likely prevent them from rebelling. If, as I suspect, many of the poor will become poorer and even more will lose their jobs and livelihoods on account of the PTP's scandalous "vote garnering" pre-election promises, then you could well see some kind of retaliatory effect so as to illustrate their dissatisfaction with events.

Time will tell, and if they manage to somehow get through those 4 years, then the country will be in such an abysmal state that heaven forbid!!! we may even see the Democrats elected as many of their voters will never have undured a whole 4 years of mis-rule before and all the damage that can bring to the economy and country as a whole!!! .

[hammered]

...

When will the people learn?????

The government should be turfed out immediately before it's too late - this is for Thailand's sake and not mine as we will actually benefit from these ludicrously damaging policies as the Baht will sky rocket!!!!

The people will only learn when they have been shown.

Turfing out this government prematurely will just bring out the protesters.

Unfortunately, we need to wait 4 years before they can be turfed out. We will see if they will have learnt by then.

As things stand, and in the direction they are going, then the same people who voted them in could be the self-same people who want them out!!!

Having said that, their hate for the Democrat party and unwillingness to lose face and admit they were wrong will likely prevent them from rebelling. If, as I suspect, many of the poor will become poorer and even more will lose their jobs and livelihoods on account of the PTP's scandalous "vote garnering" pre-election promises, then you could well see some kind of retaliatory effect so as to illustrate their dissatisfaction with events.

Time will tell, and if they manage to somehow get through those 4 years, then the country will be in such an abysmal state that heaven forbid!!! we may even see the Democrats elected as many of their voters will never have undured a whole 4 years of mis-rule before and all the damage that can bring to the economy and country as a whole!!! .

More likely there will be a crescendo of bring back Thaksin. Under Abhisit saw prices rise and no to pathetic pay raises and low crop prices. If Yingluck fails it can easily be spun to it only went wrong because the main wasnt at the helm linked to a bit of double standards court cases (if anyone is daft enough to try that route again) and a bunch of interfering by the establishment (good mates of the dems too)

[whybother]

More likely there will be a crescendo of bring back Thaksin. Under Abhisit saw prices rise and no to pathetic pay raises and low crop prices. If Yingluck fails it can easily be spun to it only went wrong because the main wasnt at the helm linked to a bit of double standards court cases (if anyone is daft enough to try that route again) and a bunch of interfering by the establishment (good mates of the dems too)

Given that it's clear that Yingluck can call Thaksin when ever she wants some advice, I don't think the "bring back Thaksin" theory will work.

[DP25]

There is talk of giving money to villages. In principal a good idea but only if the money is used for proper projects that are managed. This did not happen before.

It's better for the government if the money is not used for proper projects and is instead embezzled by those in power in the villages. They control information and will ensure a pro government voice is the one that is heard and can drive out opposition voices

[hammered]

More likely there will be a crescendo of bring back Thaksin. Under Abhisit saw prices rise and no to pathetic pay raises and low crop prices. If Yingluck fails it can easily be spun to it only went wrong because the main wasnt at the helm linked to a bit of double standards court cases (if anyone is daft enough to try that route again) and a bunch of interfering by the establishment (good mates of the dems too)

Given that it's clear that Yingluck can call Thaksin when ever she wants some advice, I don't think the "bring back Thaksin" theory will work.

Dont forget how good one side are at framing things and creating memes and PR in general and how utterly useless the other side are at all of that. This whole thing gets resolved on who gets a critical mass in support and right now one side has a big advantage and control of the tools with time on their side. The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen

[whybother]

Dont forget how good one side are at framing things and creating memes and PR in general and how utterly useless the other side are at all of that. This whole thing gets resolved on who gets a critical mass in support and right now one side has a big advantage and control of the tools with time on their side. The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen

"The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen"

It's unlikely that PTP will screw it up, or that the Democrats will stay silent?

I don't agree that it would be best for the Democrats to go quiet, although I do think they could manage their message a bit better.

One of my favorite sayings is "give them enough rope to hang themselves". The PTP have PLENTY of rope. But the Democrats have to make sure the knots are tied properly.

[hammered]

Dont forget how good one side are at framing things and creating memes and PR in general and how utterly useless the other side are at all of that. This whole thing gets resolved on who gets a critical mass in support and right now one side has a big advantage and control of the tools with time on their side. The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen

"The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen"

It's unlikely that PTP will screw it up, or that the Democrats will stay silent?

I don't agree that it would be best for the Democrats to go quiet, although I do think they could manage their message a bit better.

One of my favorite sayings is "give them enough rope to hang themselves". The PTP have PLENTY of rope. But the Democrats have to make sure the knots are tied properly.

The Dems going quiet wont happen. they let their establishment mates down badly on their part of the electoral deal and so are probably feeling a little pressured to do something especially true of Suthep (exposed) and Abhisit (pushed hard to sell the disastrous electoral strategy and somewhat exposed) who will remember only too well how Sondhi was used and then discarded as a sacrifice. The Dems mistakes of the past keep coming back to haunt them and they seem incapable of breaking the links with the old managed democracy style of the past and the thing that worked then just get mown down when up against the delinked more laissez faire Thaksin style democracy.

Using your analogy right now the Dems are tying too many knots at the start and making them too obvious. They really need a more restrained subtle approach. They could learn from Chuvit who stole the policy show by exposing an almost non-political issue which resounded with many, hit the headlines, forced PTP to act albeit leaving the Dem planted police chief looking vulnerable. You dont always have to battle your opponents on their ground. Sometimes choosing something different wins you plaudits and popularity and shows you are doing a job and not just engaging in going blow for blow, which really turns a lot off people off. They need to pick their battles, but in reality that needed new leadership. Abhisit simply brought too much baggage and distraction with him and is too sensitive to April/May questions (yesterday with senators even). A new leader could have repositioned the Dems with a simple "that is for an independent inquiry". The opposition Dems look too desperate and dont look to be reflective enough on their defeat too. That might play well to those who like them but it doesnt with those in the middle

[lannarebirth]

There is talk of giving money to villages. In principal a good idea but only if the money is used for proper projects that are managed. This did not happen before.

It's better for the government if the money is not used for proper projects and is instead embezzled by those in power in the villages. They control information and will ensure a pro government voice is the one that is heard and can drive out opposition voices

You mean, just like last time.

[Siripon]

Dont forget how good one side are at framing things and creating memes and PR in general and how utterly useless the other side are at all of that. This whole thing gets resolved on who gets a critical mass in support and right now one side has a big advantage and control of the tools with time on their side. The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen

"The best their opponents can do is go totally quiet and let PTP screw it all up. That is however, unlikely to happen"

It's unlikely that PTP will screw it up, or that the Democrats will stay silent?

I don't agree that it would be best for the Democrats to go quiet, although I do think they could manage their message a bit better.

One of my favorite sayings is "give them enough rope to hang themselves". The PTP have PLENTY of rope. But the Democrats have to make sure the knots are tied properly.

The Dems going quiet wont happen. they let their establishment mates down badly on their part of the electoral deal and so are probably feeling a little pressured to do something especially true of Suthep (exposed) and Abhisit (pushed hard to sell the disastrous electoral strategy and somewhat exposed) who will remember only too well how Sondhi was used and then discarded as a sacrifice. The Dems mistakes of the past keep coming back to haunt them and they seem incapable of breaking the links with the old managed democracy style of the past and the thing that worked then just get mown down when up against the delinked more laissez faire Thaksin style democracy.

Using your analogy right now the Dems are tying too many knots at the start and making them too obvious. They really need a more restrained subtle approach. They could learn from Chuvit who stole the policy show by exposing an almost non-political issue which resounded with many, hit the headlines, forced PTP to act albeit leaving the Dem planted police chief looking vulnerable. You dont always have to battle your opponents on their ground. Sometimes choosing something different wins you plaudits and popularity and shows you are doing a job and not just engaging in going blow for blow, which really turns a lot off people off. They need to pick their battles, but in reality that needed new leadership. Abhisit simply brought too much baggage and distraction with him and is too sensitive to April/May questions (yesterday with senators even). A new leader could have repositioned the Dems with a simple "that is for an independent inquiry". The opposition Dems look too desperate and dont look to be reflective enough on their defeat too. That might play well to those who like them but it doesnt with those in the middle

I thought Apisit showed considerable restraint yesterday when accused of allowing soldiers to 'spray' bullets. He answered every question with his usual intelligence and left his accusers looking ill-informed.

[rubl]

The Dems going quiet wont happen. they let their establishment mates down badly on their part of the electoral deal and so are probably feeling a little pressured to do something especially true of Suthep (exposed) and Abhisit (pushed hard to sell the disastrous electoral strategy and somewhat exposed) who will remember only too well how Sondhi was used and then discarded as a sacrifice. The Dems mistakes of the past keep coming back to haunt them and they seem incapable of breaking the links with the old managed democracy style of the past and the thing that worked then just get mown down when up against the delinked more laissez faire Thaksin style democracy.

... rest removed

K. Thaksin although convicted and having gone on record as to 'stay away from politics' seems to have re-enpowered his Pheu Thai party and the government they setup to push a bit harder to get the results he envisions. This doesn't look at all like a laissez-fair style, more like 'do it my way or get out of the way'