BoJangles Budget Bungalow in the Boonies

[rgs2001uk]

Mr BJ, welcome to the world of house building in Thailand.

I think many are missing the point, its a budget bungalow upcountry, although the advice is welcome, there is a difference between what is required for basically a holiday home and one you will live in full time.

You are lucky, you are getting a test run at house building before building your proper house.

I approached it by working backwards, first, set yourself a budget, and if it comes at 20% over you will have done better than most.

Its a bit like being a one armed juggler, constantly juggling such concerns as, heat and noise reduction, layout of house, direction house faces, height of walls, type of roof tiles and a roof that can support the weight.

Single or double storey and the extra costs for going double storey.

Keeping water out, tiles etc etc, what height is the house raised from ground level? etc etc

Next throw into the mix, Thai time scales, a Thai wife (no further comment required, in fact not just Thai, any woman), Upvc windows are about 3 times the cost of wooden window frames, floor tiles, teak floor or decent granite floor at about 2,000 baht per s/m, laminate floor (which I wouldnt use) or cheapo cotto tiles. Have you seen the price of steel these days.

As I said before, you are lucky you are getting a test build and can learn from your mistakes.

Set your budget and try and stick to it, otherwise things will spin out of control, many have been caught out thinking house building is cheap here, the labour may well be cheap, the materials arent.

There is of course a difference in what a Thai finds acceptable and what we farang are willing to accept.

[Naam]

To be honest, a rock and a hard place is where I feel at the moment. I'm trying to do my best on what is really just a "budget bungalow" built in a normal thai style in the village, this will never be a Grade 1 type of construction but I am trying to improve on a normal build by adding what I consider to be important extra's that are worth the extra money.

no your are not Mr Bo! considering a budget bungalow with double glazed windows in a country where delta t is maximum 7-8ºC should the home be partly airconditioned is throwing pearls before swine. and if the home is not airconditioned all your insulation efforts are <insert any obscene expression my late mother forbade me to say>.

Are you saying forget doing all the insulation Naam? Originally, my main idea for the roof was more about reducing the noise when it rains rather than worrying too much about the heat and cold.

not really. radiation penetrating the roof and heat transfer from the attic to the rooms can be something quite ugly. insulation on the ceilings should be installed in any case (aircon or not). the noise of rain on a metal roof is a matter of taste. i lived in the african bush in a house that had a corrugated polished aluminium roof. whenever there was hard rain we couldn't watch TV or have a conversation without shouting. but we were looking forward for hard rain especially on weekends... because then we had sex. that did not require any conversation

but forget any double walls or wall insulation. there is no way to keep the ambient heat out of your home without airconditioning, no matter what fairy tales some chaps are spreading on Thaivisa. have big roof overhangs and make sure the attic is properly ventilated. if you have gables and don't want powered ventilation provide for louvers in order to get some crossventilation. i haven't seen any elevation plan of your bungalow. in case you have hip roofs the only budget way is a non-powered "whirlybird". not rocket science but better than nothing if installed and sealed properly.

[Naam]

Cheers for the tips chaps.

Flying, it's 3.5 rai and would have plenty of space. I also don't think there are any restrictions on it but I think I will go with the tanks. Seems neater and cleaner and I sippose running a pipe 500 yards from the house would have it's issues, especially the cost.

have you planned a drain field Mr. Bo? most probably not Thai septic tanks are a joke if not connected to a drain field! you have all the space to construct one as well as constructing your own concrete septic tanks not for peanuts but very cheap and of course efficient. there is no need running pipes 500 yards from the house, moreover the slotted pipes which are used in drainfields are dàmn cheap.

[mrbojangles]

Mr BJ, welcome to the world of house building in Thailand.

I think many are missing the point, its a budget bungalow upcountry, although the advice is welcome, there is a difference between what is required for basically a holiday home and one you will live in full time.

Spot on rgs

To be honest WRT budget. I haven't set an actual budget, I am just trying to build an holiday home as cheap as possible but still having some things that I want. Whatever it comes in at price wise, is what it will be. But hopefully this thread will help others to see what you can get up-country at the bottom(ish) end of the price scale as opposed to spending 7.5 mil baht.

You are lucky, you are getting a test run at house building before building your proper house.

I approached it by working backwards, first, set yourself a budget, and if it comes at 20% over you will have done better than most.

Its a bit like being a one armed juggler, constantly juggling such concerns as, heat and noise reduction, layout of house, direction house faces, height of walls, type of roof tiles and a roof that can support the weight.

Single or double storey and the extra costs for going double storey.

Keeping water out, tiles etc etc, what height is the house raised from ground level? etc etc

Next throw into the mix, Thai time scales, a Thai wife (no further comment required, in fact not just Thai, any woman), Upvc windows are about 3 times the cost of wooden window frames, floor tiles, teak floor or decent granite floor at about 2,000 baht per s/m, laminate floor (which I wouldnt use) or cheapo cotto tiles. Have you seen the price of steel these days.

Spot on again.I have been thinking all along that this is a test run and a lessons learned exercise.

[mrbojangles]

Cheers for the tips chaps.

Flying, it's 3.5 rai and would have plenty of space. I also don't think there are any restrictions on it but I think I will go with the tanks. Seems neater and cleaner and I sippose running a pipe 500 yards from the house would have it's issues, especially the cost.

have you planned a drain field Mr. Bo? most probably not Thai septic tanks are a joke if not connected to a drain field! you have all the space to construct one as well as constructing your own concrete septic tanks not for peanuts but very cheap and of course efficient. there is no need running pipes 500 yards from the house, moreover the slotted pipes which are used in drainfields are dàmn cheap.

I've thought about it Naam and I know where it will go, including where the waste pipes will leave the property but I haven't fully planned it all yet. I want to get the main building headaches out of the way first.

[mrbojangles]

but we were looking forward for hard rain especially on weekends... because then we had sex. that did not require any conversation

Waaaaay too much detail there buddy. Visions in my head already. A Klingon and Vulcan going at it full pelt

[Naam]

I've thought about it Naam and I know where it will go, including where the waste pipes will leave the property but I haven't fully planned it all yet. I want to get the main building headaches out of the way first.

waste pipes leaving property is a BIG NO NO! nothing leaves your property when using slotted flexible piping. all liquid dissipates into the ground and mother nature is doing a beautiful job to clarify this liquid.

look at the picture Flying posted. it's not rocket science to install a drain field. some digging, some pipes, some gravel and all your outlaws using your holiday home will not bust the septic system.

[Naam]

Is this an improvement?

in my [not so] humble opinion an improvement would be moving the competition for latin-american dances out of the kitchen (your 3.5 Rai land should provide that possibility) and reduce the kitchen space.

of course, if you have planned additional functions for the kitchen such as weekly congregations of half the village's population or having half a dozen cooks prepare a variety of delicacies at the same time for supper... then i withdraw my recommendation.

[mrbojangles]

I've thought about it Naam and I know where it will go, including where the waste pipes will leave the property but I haven't fully planned it all yet. I want to get the main building headaches out of the way first.

waste pipes leaving property is a BIG NO NO! nothing leaves your property when using slotted flexible piping. all liquid dissipates into the ground and mother nature is doing a beautiful job to clarify this liquid.

Now I am confused. The waste pipes have to leave the property to get to the septic tank, don't they. From there they'll then go to the drainfield.

[flying]

I've thought about it Naam and I know where it will go, including where the waste pipes will leave the property but I haven't fully planned it all yet. I want to get the main building headaches out of the way first.

waste pipes leaving property is a BIG NO NO! nothing leaves your property when using slotted flexible piping. all liquid dissipates into the ground and mother nature is doing a beautiful job to clarify this liquid.

Now I am confused. The waste pipes have to leave the property to get to the septic tank, don't they. From there they'll then go to the drainfield.

Mr B I think you may be confusing property with your building?

When most folks say property they mean your 3.5 rai not your floor plan/house proper.

Yes as the diagram I posted shows.....Your waste line leaves your home....goes into your septic tank....then into the leach lines/field

I think Naam is saying make sure you use a system that is set like that & not a closed system that has no leech lines/ drainage field

PS: A drainage field is not big. a home your size would be roughly 9'x12'

I say roughly because I do not know the drainage/perking ability of your land

[harrry]

I've thought about it Naam and I know where it will go, including where the waste pipes will leave the property but I haven't fully planned it all yet. I want to get the main building headaches out of the way first.

waste pipes leaving property is a BIG NO NO! nothing leaves your property when using slotted flexible piping. all liquid dissipates into the ground and mother nature is doing a beautiful job to clarify this liquid.

Now I am confused. The waste pipes have to leave the property to get to the septic tank, don't they. From there they'll then go to the drainfield.

Mr B I think you may be confusing property with your building?

When most folks say property they mean your 3.5 rai not your floor plan/house proper.

Yes as the diagram I posted shows.....Your waste line leaves your home....goes into your septic tank....then into the leach lines/field

I think Naam is saying make sure you use a system that is set like that & not a closed system that has no leech lines/ drainage field

PS: A drainage field is not big. a home your size would be roughly 9'x12'

I say roughly because I do not know the drainage/perking ability of your land

But it is best not to have it near a well. Some people say 15 metres some 50.

[Naam]

Mr B I think you may be confusing property with your building?

Mr Bo is excused. after my first year in the most beautiful city on this planet (Jeddah) i was a bit confused too. the heat, the sand blowing from direction Makkah al-Muharram, only mutton curry and camel steaks to be washed down with Sadiqi, no crispy crunchy pork roast...

[Naam]

A drainage field is not big. a home your size would be roughly 9'x12'

I say roughly because I do not know the drainage/perking ability of your land

that size would be penny-wise and pound-foolish Flying. add an "inch" or two but you are right that nobody knows the soils' perking ability. whatever... bigger is better.

Mr Bo should also compare the cost of the inefficient ready-made toy septic tanks with a proper concrete or masonry and plastered tank, three chambers, each chamber 1.5m³. much cheaper in the boonies than a bought tank and providing generations to poo and pee without ever reaching the septic limits.

for his non-budget main house i advise Mr Bo to build Naam's patented Rolls-Bentley-Benz septic system™ which proved to be reliable in four Florida and one Thai home. all it takes is an additional expense of ~200 dollars for

[mrbojangles]

I've thought about it Naam and I know where it will go, including where the waste pipes will leave the property but I haven't fully planned it all yet. I want to get the main building headaches out of the way first.

waste pipes leaving property is a BIG NO NO! nothing leaves your property when using slotted flexible piping. all liquid dissipates into the ground and mother nature is doing a beautiful job to clarify this liquid.

Now I am confused. The waste pipes have to leave the property to get to the septic tank, don't they. From there they'll then go to the drainfield.

Mr B I think you may be confusing property with your building?

When most folks say property they mean your 3.5 rai not your floor plan/house proper.

Doh ! Got ya. Don't remember drinking at that time of posting

[mrbojangles]

Mr Bo should also compare the cost of the inefficient ready-made toy septic tanks with a proper concrete or masonry and plastered tank, three chambers, each chamber 1.5m³. much cheaper in the boonies than a bought tank and providing generations to poo and pee without ever reaching the septic limits.

Advise please Naam. I've seen those concrete rings, would they do? Then i intend for the poo and pee to go into the first one, which will then go into the second one when it overflows. Also into the second one, I intend to pipe in the sink water and shower water. This is so the detergent etc don't kill the bacterea in the poo and pee one. Then I was just going to pipe out into the drain field. Is this correct and if so what is the third one for?

for his non-budget main house i advise Mr Bo to build Naam's patented Rolls-Bentley-Benz septic system™ which proved to be reliable in four Florida and one Thai home. all it takes is an additional expense of ~200 dollars for

What does it do Naam?

[Boo]

Naam, now playing the house building equivalent of a prick tease.

All very interesting information for us future house builders of Thailand. Many thanks to all contributors & information providers.

[Naam]

I've seen those concrete rings, would they do?

that would be really a poor man's illegal solution and not a septic system. the concrete rings are not tight. liquid would seep out from the first chamber. as bacteria couldn't do their work this liquid would be stinking.

what i meant was a septic tank built of red bricks and a plastered (Brits say "rendered") inside.

Then i intend for the poo and pee to go into the first one, which will then go into the second one when it overflows. Also into the second one, I intend to pipe in the sink water and shower water.

that would be "Thai engineering" and therefore completely wrong. mother nature's bacteria are working in both, first and second chamber. detergents won't really harm them, in fact they like soapy water. what would be hampered is their way of working by being constantly diluted with grey water. the latter can go in its separate tank and there's no harm that this tank is constructed by concrete rings. it might not even need an overflow to the drainfield depending on your soil's percolation capacity.

What does it do Naam?

it's a pump that pumps from the second (preferably the third) chamber the liquid into the drainfield. the difference to a normal pump is that it has a blade attached before the impeller which makes a purée of any solids forming if the house is not used for a certain time. a rather small additional cost but worth a hundred times its money.

what is the third one for?

three work better than two, but the third chamber is not really mandatory.

[mrbojangles]

Cheers Naam :jap:

Got some pictures sent over from the neice, so I'll post some updates when I get time.

In the meantime and now I think I've sorted out the solution to the waste. Has anyone got any recommendations for water filtration etc. Please note, I don't need drinking water as this will ALL be bottled, this is purely for showering and washing the dishes etc.

We have a village supply but it can get brownish and it can sometimes run dry. What system is best to clean this out and is it worth utilising any rain water we collect in the big urns? If so, is it the same system or would this need something different?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

[stgrhe]

I installed this filter from Waterco, which is an Australian company with representation in Hua Hin. The price was about 18,000 baht plus installation costs.

http://www.waterco.com.au/component/virtuemart/details/111/37/water-treatment-products/residential-water-filters/micron-w-series-filters

I chose this filter over the Thai Masterpure Master M5 since it was cheaper and and had a better representative here in Hua Hin.

http://www.masterpure.com/id20.html

I am quite happy with my selection. In addition I have installed a five-stage water purification system that provides us with drinking water. I no longer need to carry water bottles.

[mrbojangles]

I installed this filter from Waterco, which is an Australian company with representation in Hua Hin. The price was about 18,000 baht plus installation costs.

Thamks for that stgrhe.

Is this system good for both village water and rain water that has been stored? Do you have any pictures of the full set up? :jap:

[stgrhe]

We get our water from a well and I have so only installed a sediment filter since our water only contains 150ppm of Ca. With the Waterco filter the back-wash needs to be done manually and there is a sight-glass that let one knows when it is time. My filter is installed in our pump room before the storage tanks. We have two pumps, one larger for our domestic water and one smaller for the sprinklers, both are Grundfos. The sprinkler pump is hidden behind the larger pump on the picture below.

[flying]

For teh uses you describe all you need is something like this.

Run about $30 in the US...Just a basic sediment filter.

Fine for washing,showers, etc.

I have used them for decades on rainwater systems.

When the cartridge is dirty you can see it has changed color & swap in a new one in less than 5 minutes

If you do decide on a drinking system the new UV type systems are very popular now.

[flying]

We get our water from a well and I have so only installed a sediment filter since our water only contains 150ppm of Ca. With the Waterco filter the back-wash needs to be done manually and there is a sight-glass that let one knows when it is time. My filter is installed in our pump room before the storage tanks. We have two pumps, one larger for our domestic water and one smaller for the sprinklers, both are Grundfos. The sprinkler pump is hidden behind the larger pump on the picture below.

That is a wild looking bunch of plumbing!

The Grundfos pumps are good but we did have some problems with them a year ago.

I think they have changed them now. They were always well made though.

[mrbojangles]

Thanks guys, very helpful. :jap:

I thought that the rain water would need something different in case there were harmful chemicals. Not exactly Chernobyl (sp) but you get my drift.

Would a set up as simple as this suffice?

[flying]

Thanks guys, very helpful. :jap:

I thought that the rain water would need something different in case there were harmful chemicals. Not exactly Chernobyl (sp) but you get my drift.

Would a set up as simple as this suffice?

Actually you do not need the clean water tank before the pump.

What you use is a foot valve on the pickup line in the water tank itself.

Your intake line from the tank has the foot valve a few inches off the bottom of the tank.

Also realize a pump is designed to push not pull.

Once primed yes it will push very well.

But if you put a sediment filter in front it will probably not work well.

Lastly a cover on the water tank is imperative.Both to protect from droppings & bugs but also

to protect from algae bloom. Just mentioning it although I see your pic shows a closed top tank.

Here is a foot valve..

Edited November 1, 2011 by flying

[mrbojangles]

Hi flying.

My thoughts for the Clean water tank was to use it so that the demand of the pre-filtered water was already stored, as the village supply doesn't have much pressure. The tank would then get topped up in slow time by either gravity from the rain water or the little pressure in the village supply.

The tank feeding the house will be at floor level, so how will I get enough pressure to rise to the height of the shower and the sink etc?

Edit, just noticed on my quick sketch, the outlet from the tank is at the top, it's meant to be at the bottom.

[flying]

Hi flying.

My thoughts for the Clean water tank was to use it so that the demand of the pre-filtered water was already stored, as the village supply doesn't have much pressure. The tank would then get topped up in slow time by either gravity from the rain water or the little pressure in the village supply.

The tank feeding the house will be at floor level, so how will I get enough pressure to rise to the height of the shower and the sink etc?

Edit, just noticed on my quick sketch, the outlet from the tank is at the top, it's meant to be at the bottom.

Sorry I dont quite understand your question.

The pump supplies all the pressure to the house.

I also use a pressure tank after the pump.

Not very big maybe 30 gallons. Just to relieve the pump from

having to cycle on/off/on/off if your usage is say a sink etc.

Where the usage is less than the pump is putting out.

Other wise the pump will kick in & out constantly.

So it acts as a shock absorber/buffer

If instead you are suggesting a gravity fed system?

There is a formula for head pressure. Or what your asking about for the showers etc.

I am sure you can find it online as I do not remember the formula.

It will show how much head pressure you gain per foot water falls.

Things like toilets sinks etc do not take much. The water tank just need to be higher than the toilet & sink.

But you will not have much pressure.

Things like water heaters may be a problem.

Basically you would raise your water tank X feet above your usage exit.

Overall I would stick with the pump.

The ones I use last 10+ years easily.

Here is a pic of a basic system

Dont be confused by the tank...It is a cutaway to show folks how it all works.

The big pipe would be the rain gutters in & also an overflow.

The small pipe is the suction to the pump.

In this pic the pump is sitting on the pressure tank.

Also they are showing two sediment filters before it goes in the house

Edited November 1, 2011 by flying

[mrbojangles]

Thanks flying. I think I've got it now. Not used to this. I'm more used to North West water providing clean and pressured water.

I was thinking that if I put the sediment filter after the pump it would slow down any water pressure that the pump was providing. So I was thinking that I would have to clean it first, then store it and then pump it into the house. The filter must have a good flow rate going through it, if it can keep up with the pressure.

[flying]

The filter must have a good flow rate going through it, if it can keep up with the pressure.

Yes it is a matter of area.

If you look at the picture of the filter open you see the clean water is passed through the center of the filter to the house.

So it has all the circumference area of the filter to draw from.

PS: there are various types of cartridges for the filter.

Rated at different microns.

Even charcoal types.

But I like the one that is made of string.

Called a wound cartridge

It basically looks like a wound up roll of string.

Works very well

Here is a picture...If you look close you can see it is wound string

Here is a paper type ( not good IMHO )

These are a solid material...again not good IMHO flow wise

Edited November 2, 2011 by flying

[Gary A]

The Mrs just started this a couple of weeks ago. Anybody have any ideas what colour I should paint the walls

I call this BoJangles Budget Bungalow in the Boonies as I don't want to spend a fortune on a house that will be purely used for when we go up to the village for a couple of days at a time.

I haven't seen it yet but going up next week. It's difficult living in Saudi and trying to keep control of ideas etc. The wife and daughter came over last month when the schools finished in Saudi and she was only supposed to be doing the footings and waiting till I got there, so that i could approve the size and shape. But with the money I sent her she has got this far (her brothers are builders). Hope the rest of the build goes the same way but I can't see it

Shit, dont no what happened my reply just vanished, lets try again.

None of my business, I see you say budget house, this is just an observation.

Why is there no concrete beam at the top of your colums?

This means the steel roof beams are going to be welded to the rebar on your columns.

Are the coulums able to support the weight of the roof, what happens when the roof beams start to expand and contract?

The only reasons I can think of are, ignorance on the part of the builders, they just copy what everyone else in the area is building, or ignoarance on the part of the people having the house built.

The other reason is money, the budget set by the people having the house built, or as a money saving measure by the builders to maximise profits.

IMHO this design is a future problem waiting to happen, I would pay the extra and have concrete beams in place.

Others with a better understanding may be able to offer a logical explanation, comments or guidance.

This is a common construction method and there is nothing wrong with it. My garage/workshop was built about seven years ago and it has no problems.