British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[steelepulse]

>>but i am struggling to see that where is states the knife was used was the knife taken from 7/11, it simply says he died from a stab would and the murder weapon was found at the scene. it does not say where that knife is from, or what, if any forensic evidence is on the knife.

In an article from another news blog that can't be mentioned here, it clearly states the 7/11 knives that were dropped on the floor by it's staff appear to be the same as the two knives found at the murder scene. One outside the house, and the murder weapon inside the house. What are the odds of that ? Coincidence? It doesn't really matter though does it as they have the murder weapon.

[Nisa]

This has nothing to do with America...have you seen any evidence that the USA government is getting involved? Or is that just a silly assumption?

Beyond making it clear they want him extradited to Thailand to stand trial, I read the following on a few sites:

The fact that Longfellow is a former US Marine who received a Purple Heart has not gone unnoticed by the US authorities who are believed to have offered forensic assistance in order to help the Thai police build their case.

Not really sure they could do much more at this point beyond assist but am fairly confident they would find a way to get involved if in the highly unlikely event he is not made to stand trial.

[Nisa]

Forensics Police have confirmed that the knife found at the scene was the murder weapon and a report from Vachira Hospital Phuket has confirmed that Mr Longfellow died from the knife wound, Lt Col Anukul said.

More damning evidence is available in the form of CCTV footage of a man closely resembling Mr Aldhouse entering a nearby 7-Eleven convenience store just before the time of the murder and ordering terrified staff to give him knives.

http://www.nationmul...--30136767.html

Yes, just read that 10 times, but i am struggling to see that where is states the knife was used was the knife taken from 7/11, it simply says he died from a stab would and the murder weapon was found at the scene. it does not say where that knife is from, or what, if any forensic evidence is on the knife.

But for Nisa to convict all she needs is a knife and a stab wound, doesn't matter if its the knife that was allegedly taken by the accused, that isn't important

I never claimed anyone said or confirmed any of the things you state in the first paragraph but there are numerous reports stating at least one of the knives is the same one taken from the 711.

As for convicting the guy ... Just because I try to state facts and the obvious shouldn't lead you to further play make believe by pretending I ever said the guy should be convicted or that he was guilty. In fact, I've made clear he deserves to have a trial and have his side of the story heard.

Then again if I were him or his lawyer, I would be working very hard to make a deal with the Thais given the overwhelming evidence we've heard against him to date as well as the almost certain fact he will be facing the charges in Thailand.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Nisa

[ukrules]

8. based on number 7 Aldhouse will not be extradited to thailand, he will be walking round the UK as a free man as is one of his fellow nationals that was also refused to be extradited here.

Who was the other UK National who didn't get extradited to Thailand ?

[random]

8. based on number 7 Aldhouse will not be extradited to thailand, he will be walking round the UK as a free man as is one of his fellow nationals that was also refused to be extradited here.

Who was the other UK National who didn't get extradited to Thailand ?

I read something a few days ago and will need to find it again, give me a little lite and I will try and find it

[hehehoho]

You REPEATEDLY are asking me to back of claims I didn't make but CONTINUE pretending I said these things. Why do you keep doing this? Is it for attention or do you sincerely lack reading comprehension skills?

Eh? Just searching this topic for 'forensic evidence' brings up you claiming on three different occasions that the facts of this case against Lee Aldhouse include forensic evidence! Do I really have to quote them all before you explain to those of us interested in the facts what forensic evidence (you believe) there currently is against the accused?

Edited September 15, 2011 by hehehoho

[Nisa]

You REPEATEDLY are asking me to back of claims I didn't make but CONTINUE pretending I said these things. Why do you keep doing this? Is it for attention or do you sincerely lack reading comprehension skills?

Eh? Just searching this topic for 'forensic evidence' brings up you claiming on three different occasions that the facts of this case against Lee Aldhouse include forensic evidence! Do I really have to quote them all before you explain to those of us interested in the facts what forensic evidence (you believe) there currently is against the accused?

Well then as I have already asked ... reply to my comment (just one) instead of continuing to make up what I said and asking me to respond.

Again, won't hold my breath for you to do this.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

8. based on number 7 Aldhouse will not be extradited to thailand, he will be walking round the UK as a free man as is one of his fellow nationals that was also refused to be extradited here.

Who was the other UK National who didn't get extradited to Thailand ?

Please also provide a source for this ...

3. Both men had been asked to leave their training camps because of drink and influences outside affecting training

I've not seen any mention of the victim having troubles of this type and it would be very disrespectful to his family to say such a thing "if" not true.

[hehehoho]

I hope the englishman gets off. As if is a fair fight boxer aginst marine. Doesn't say much for the u.s militery

At the end of the day there is no real proof that he done it. Jut a fight that went wrong. If the american provoked him then is that really fair that he should get in trouble.

I have to assume you have no idea what-so-ever about the facts in the case to make such comments.

What facts? The ones the Thai press and police decide on?

That and many witnesses, forensic evidence, video tape ....

Hmmmm.

[Nisa]

What facts? The ones the Thai press and police decide on?

That and many witnesses, forensic evidence, video tape ....

Hmmmm.

There is forensic evidence and a video as has been pointed out, quoted and linked here. What exactly are you questioning about this?

Just an FYI, I really need to ignore future posts from you regarding this nonsense of your claiming I have said things I didn't or that are not backed up in news reports in regards to evidence, forensic or witnesses. Your game has become very boring and I'm starting to be embarrassed for you.

http://www.nationmul...--30136767.html

Forensics Police have confirmed that the knife found at the scene was the murder weapon and a report from Vachira Hospital Phuket has confirmed that Mr Longfellow died from the knife wound, Lt Col Anukul said.More damning evidence is available in the form of CCTV footage of a man closely resembling Mr Aldhouse entering a nearby 7-Eleven convenience store just before the time of the murder and ordering terrified staff to give him knives.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Nisa

[hehehoho]

Odd that you edit out the first quote that is discussing the English man and that there's no direct evidence of him being murderer?!?

So you were saying that there's factual forensic evidence that he did it.

And what you have above is not forensic evidence of the accused being at the murder scene.

That is forensic police stating that the knife at the murder scene was the one used to commit the murder (shock), and doesn't forensically link anybody to the murder scene in any way.

There is no forensic evidence linking Lee Aldhouse to the murder scene (as yet released). Can we please agree on that at least?

btw, as reported in a newspaper that cannot be linked here on the 15/08/2010 (in case people want to read it). Title 'How a war hero died'

Inside the apartment a second knife, belonging to the apartment was found with a bloodied blade. (not a 7-11 knife)

By the sounds of that report the knife the forensic police say killed the victim came from inside the apartment (the murder scene).

Edited September 16, 2011 by hehehoho

[Nisa]

That is not forensic evidence of the accused being at the murder scene.

Never once said it was but logic would dictate a link between him at the murder scene because he was in possession of the murder weapon just before the murder. If his ID or hair was found at the scene you would be making the same illogical and unreasonable argument.

That is forensic police stating that the knife at the murder scene was the one used to commit the murder (shock).

And that the murder weapon has been identified as the one(s) he took from the 711 before the murder (linking him to the murder & murder scene), after he stated he wanted to kill somebody and after he got his butt kicked by the victim and then went on to stab to death the victim according to the eye witness who says she saw him kill the suspect.

There is no forensic evidence linking Lee Aldhouse to the murder scene (as yet released). Can we please agree on that at least?

There is a plethora of evidence not released yet and it is more than likely that they at minimum have finger prints on the knives and/or in the home but even if they didn't, there is already enough information released for any reasonable person to believe he did this baring any miraculous evidence the defense puts out at trial such as the suspect having a twin.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[bubblegum]

Just a question; have any of you ever met Aldhouse ? Well I did and it was not pleasant at all !

[Nisa]

Just a question; have any of you ever met Aldhouse ? Well I did and it was not pleasant at all !

Never met him myself but according to reports you would not be alone in your experience.

[random]

That is not forensic evidence of the accused being at the murder scene.

Never once said it was but logic would dictate a link between him at the murder scene because he was in possession of the murder weapon just before the murder. If his ID or hair was found at the scene you would be making the same illogical and unreasonable argument.

That is forensic police stating that the knife at the murder scene was the one used to commit the murder (shock).

And that the murder weapon has been identified as the one(s) he took from the 711 before the murder (linking him to the murder & murder scene), after he stated he wanted to kill somebody and after he got his butt kicked by the victim and then went on to stab to death the victim according to the eye witness who says she saw him kill the suspect.

There is no forensic evidence linking Lee Aldhouse to the murder scene (as yet released). Can we please agree on that at least?

There is a plethora of evidence not released yet and it is more than likely that they at minimum have finger prints on the knives and/or in the home but even if they didn't, there is already enough information released for any reasonable person to believe he did this baring any miraculous evidence the defense puts out at trial such as the suspect having a twin.

amazing, you seem to have evidence that nobody else or has or that has not been released.

you say logic dictates that there is a link between him an the murder scene, i can just picture it now, "your Honour, i can prove that Aldhouse is the murderer as logic dictates it. Prove it??/ i don't need to. logic dictates it"

secondly, it is said that the murder weapon was found at the scene, nobody is disputing this, however it has never been said that this is the knife taken from 7/11, or it has never been said it is a knife from 7/11, it simply says a knife at the murder scene is the weapon used. If I have missed a link that states that the weapon found at the scene is the knife taken from 7/11 please link to it, you are stating this as fact has I have bolded above, Lets not forget here, there were 2 bloodied knives found, how so? Aldhouse is said to have taken one knife with him when he left and discarded the other at the scene. the second bloodied knife belongs to the apartment. but as long as you have logic none of this matters right?

[random]

8. based on number 7 Aldhouse will not be extradited to thailand, he will be walking round the UK as a free man as is one of his fellow nationals that was also refused to be extradited here.

Who was the other UK National who didn't get extradited to Thailand ?

Please also provide a source for this ...

3. Both men had been asked to leave their training camps because of drink and influences outside affecting training

I've not seen any mention of the victim having troubles of this type and it would be very disrespectful to his family to say such a thing "if" not true.

UKRules I can not seem to put my finger on the report at the moment but I will keep searching.

Nisa, see the below link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38724287/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/t/thai-slaying-briton-american-both-drawn-kickboxing/

just because you have not seen mention of it it does not mean it wasn't mentioned

[Nisa]

amazing, you seem to have evidence that nobody else or has or that has not been released.

Nothing I stated is not backed up by what has been reported to date and already linked on this thread.

However, some of us are still waiting for your sources on claims such as there is somebody free in the UK who the courts refused to extradite to Thailand ... not to mention your claims that there was not witness to the murder. But I'm guessing this all seems logical to you being an ex-policeman (as you claim).

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[random]

Just a question; have any of you ever met Aldhouse ? Well I did and it was not pleasant at all !

Relevance?

I have met many unpleasant people, that does not mean they are murderers.

I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

[random]

amazing, you seem to have evidence that nobody else or has or that has not been released.

Nothing I stated is not backed up by what has been reported to date and already linked on this thread.

However, some of us are still waiting for your sources on claims such as your stating the victim was thrown out of his training class as well as your claim that there is somebody free in the UK who the courts refused to extradite to Thailand ... not to mention your claims that there was not witness to the murder. But I'm guessing this all seems logical to you being an ex-policeman (as you claim).

Here we go again, I extend my invitation for you to pm me so I can offer proof of my previous career, if you choose to not take this chance to see some some proof then stop casting aspersions, deal?

i know proof is not needed in Nisas world, just mere speculation is enough, I have already linked to the report that states he was kicked out of his classes and commented on my other claim, and when i find that i will post it, unlike you I have a life away from this forum and in time I will recover that report also.

I will also wait for you to link to the report that states that the murder weapon found at the scene is the knife taken from 7/11, Nisa we both know this report does not exist as this report has never been made, we all know this, just say you are speculating, its ok, w understand you have tied yourself in knots here with your claims and counter claims with nothing to back this up, and when asked for sources you would rather come back with counter claims about sources rather than back your claim up.

anyway, I am waiting for your pm so we can at least put that little bit of nonsense on your side to bed once and for all and we can do away with your snide (as you claim) comments

[Nisa]

Just a question; have any of you ever met Aldhouse ? Well I did and it was not pleasant at all !

Relevance?

I have met many unpleasant people, that does not mean they are murderers.

LMAO, I thought you claimed to be an expoliceman???

Certainly you should know that a person's character and past bad behaviors (such as violence & temper) certainly are relevant. Not only relevant in determining the person's guilt & credibility but also in sentencing. A person's past behavior and personality are certainly relevant ... have you never heard of character witnesses?

[random]

Just a question; have any of you ever met Aldhouse ? Well I did and it was not pleasant at all !

Relevance?

I have met many unpleasant people, that does not mean they are murderers.

LMAO, I thought you claimed to be an expoliceman???

Certainly you should know that a person's character and past bad behaviors (such as violence & temper) certainly are relevant. Not only relevant in determining the person's guilt & credibility but also in sentencing. A person's past behavior and personality are certainly relevant ... have you never heard of character witnesses?

again i extend my invitation to pm me for proof of my previous employment,

I said I have met many unpleasant people. where do i mention violence and temper, where does the poster mention violence and temper, he simply says it was not pleasant, and I simply state i have met unpleasant people, this does not make them murderers or violent or bad tempered. there are also murderers that show no tendencies to the outside world, pleasant calm people that charm the public, even at trial.

Weird, now you are inventing things. i think we will end this now, I will wait for your pm so we can at least one of your little aspersions to bed about my previous employment

[thaihome]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

[random]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

my mistake, i should have been clearer, in this instance I was referring to trial rather than extradition, the evidence for trial is full of holes, the evidence for extradition is enough. however it is other matters that are holding up extradition and not the evidence available.

If this trial is held in the UK expect him to walk free at the the end of it.

[Nisa]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

my mistake, i should have been clearer, in this instance I was referring to trial rather than extradition, the evidence for trial is full of holes, the evidence for extradition is enough. however it is other matters that are holding up extradition and not the evidence available.

If this trial is held in the UK expect him to walk free at the the end of it.

Just with the information available to date from witnesses & video (forgetting about all the other evidence and forensics they have not released yet), it would seem very odd for anyone to say there are a lot of holes in the case. In fact, this would typically be termed a "slam dunk" type of murder case compared to most others. Not only is there clear motive, means & opportunity but they also have an eye witness. How in the world can anybody who was in law enforcement say the evidence is "full of holes" when the police have not even put forward their evidence yet but we still have an overwhelming amount of information being reported to show he did it barring any extraordinary defense such as the suspect having a twin.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[Richard4849]

Radom, what kind of cop were you? How many homicide inquiries did you lead?

[chrisandsu]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

my mistake, i should have been clearer, in this instance I was referring to trial rather than extradition, the evidence for trial is full of holes, the evidence for extradition is enough. however it is other matters that are holding up extradition and not the evidence available.

If this trial is held in the UK expect him to walk free at the the end of it.

To be fair if Britain cant deport an aids riddled hench man of mugabe to zimbabwe then im sure as hell they are not going to extradite a two bob chav! its his human rights innit

Edited September 16, 2011 by chrisandsu

[Tolley]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

my mistake, i should have been clearer, in this instance I was referring to trial rather than extradition, the evidence for trial is full of holes, the evidence for extradition is enough. however it is other matters that are holding up extradition and not the evidence available.

If this trial is held in the UK expect him to walk free at the the end of it.

The trial wont be held in the UK as the crime was not committed in the UK.

So any speculation on whether he would or wouldn't be found guilty in the UK is quite frankly pointless.

If he is extradited to Thailand he will be found guilty have no doubt about that and based on the evidence that I have read it would seem to be the right verdict.

Case closed.

[bangkok101]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

"If Aldhouse didn't do it.....then who did"?

Whats more surprising is how Aldhouse evaded capture and exited Thailand and boarded a flight to the UK from Cambodia, or wherever he departed from. How does a person leave the country when the police are hunting you?? And how does he pass immigration in the country of departure (assuming departure from Cambodia) without the proper entry stamps, visa, etc??

I guess timing is everything and perhaps the police failed in this instance to notify the border points in timely fashion, or not at all about the status of this wanted person.

Can anyone paint a scenario in which a wanted person, perhaps flagged on immigration data bases as a wanted criminal fugitve can evade apprehension as in this case? Just curious.

One further point, while Aldhouse's action in fleeing Thailand can be viewed as inflammatory against him, it can also be seen as a genuine fear of trying to navigate the Thai judicial system that offers very little in the way of rights for a criminal defendant?

Can anyone clarify if Aldhouse's appeal against extradition has been denied?

[Nisa]

There is an INCREDIBLY slim chance he will not be headed back to Thailand ...

The Daily Mirror says a government source told them: ”The only way he could have realistically avoided extradition is if he would have faced the death penalty if found guilty. But the Thai Government have assured us that he will not.”

Lee Aldhouse, 28, claims his human rights will be breached if he is sent to Bangkok’s Bang Kwang Central Prison.

But Ally Wilkes, for the Thai government, said they had given assurances that Aldhouse could have his own cell.

It’s believed that senior officials in Thailand are so keen to have Mr. Aldhouse extradited that if the conditions at Phuket Prison continue to be an issue they would be prepared to have him accommodated in a Western-style two-person cell.

[hehehoho]

That is not forensic evidence of the accused being at the murder scene.

Never once said it was

You did, my quote above (of which you had to delete the first piece of information discussing that there's no factual evidence of the English being guilty.) You said there is forensic evidence linking the Englishman to the crime as you were responding to those quotes. You are yet to show us any. Please do.

but logic would dictate a link between him at the murder scene because he was in possession of the murder weapon just before the murder.

And that the murder weapon has been identified as the one(s) he took from the 711 before the murder

Logic means nothing when supposed to be backing up factual claims.

And I don't believe this has been proven in any way whatsoever. Some reports clearly state the complete opposite of what you claim, that it was a knife from inside the apartment used.

There is no forensic evidence linking Lee Aldhouse to the murder scene (as yet released). Can we please agree on that at least?

There is a plethora of evidence not released yet and it is more than likely that they at minimum have finger prints on the knives and/or in the home

Not released yet.... more than likely...

So you agree then, that there is no forensic evidence linking the accused to the murder scene that has been released so far? (yes/no please Nisa)

Edited September 16, 2011 by hehehoho