British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

theoldgit · September 4, 2011

If he gets put in a Thai prison, he may wish he had received the death sentence instead.

Not really, he can apply to serve his sentence in a UK prison, assuming he is convicted, using the 1984 Repatriation of Prisoners Act.

BOS2BKK · September 4, 2011

I thought the Thais couldn't be bothered about farang on farang crime? That's what some genius said in the dead Kiwi thread.

They can't generally be bothered, but something tells me the US Embassy differentiates between a destitute alcoholic punter getting thrown off a balcony by his Girlfriends Thai boyfriend, and an active duty US Marine on leave getting knifed. In a different age that could be interpreted as an act of aggression worthy of a military response. I am sure this is the result of pressure form the Embassy.

JUDAS · September 4, 2011

Is anyone aware of similar cases were a UK national was extradited from his home country to Thailand to face serious charges? If there are precedents then this extradition may be somewhat more straight forward in regards to legal argument. I'm also wondering if the UK judiciary or European courts will have the final say in this case.

DocW · September 4, 2011

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

The thing is that the USA and Thailand have treaties where when a person is extradited to Thailand to face trial. If he receives the maximum jail sentence then he would serve the 1st 15 years here in Thailand and then they could/would let the USA have him if they get involved. Either way he will have to do minimum 15 years here in Thailand.

Canada has the same treaty where if a person was sentenced to 25 years here in Thailand he/she would serve the first 15 here and then the last years in Canada.

meatboy · September 4, 2011

i thought pitbulls were banned in the uk.

BOS2BKK · September 4, 2011

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

I don't think so...since the victim was traveling as a private citizen, both parties were private citizens. Military or not, the US is less help than most in this type of situation.

cr

He was not traveling as a private citizen. He was an active duty Marine on liberty (medical leave? I have seen both listed). The US has had a formal Status of Forces Agreement with Thailand since the 1960s that allow us to place military personnel in various capacities in Thailand and encourages the Military to use the Thai resorts as leave and liberty destinations. That is why in Pattaya and Phuket when the ships are in you can spot uniformed US Navy and Marine Police around the bar areas operating with the permission of the Thai government. Generally party to these SOFA's are guarantees regarding the various crimes that inevitably occur with military men on leave.

Edited September 4, 2011 by BOS2BKK

tropo · September 4, 2011

I thought the Thais couldn't be bothered about farang on farang crime? That's what some genius said in the dead Kiwi thread.

Time will tell. He's not in Thailand yet, is he?

BOS2BKK · September 4, 2011

If he gets put in a Thai prison, he may wish he had received the death sentence instead.

Not really, he can apply to serve his sentence in a UK prison, assuming he is convicted, using the 1984 Repatriation of Prisoners Act.

But this is not up to the UK. Just because the UK has a law that allows UK prisoners to return to be jailed there does not mean the Thais have to allow him to do that. It will be the subject of whatever treaties the Thais and Brits have in place. This stuff is far from cut and dried, and while we as westerners tend to think our rights and opinions take precedence, they don't. Thailand is a sovereign nations,and expat criminals are subject to their laws an applicable treaties. It kind of bothers me to see Expats talking about these things as if the Thai legal system (hahahahhahaha...thai legal system hahahaha) were some nuisance interfering with the proper execution of justice by their home courts. Thailand has a right to enforce its laws, whether they jibe with our laws or not.

bangkok101 · September 4, 2011

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State

applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in

the territory of the said State..."

The above quote is from Section 11 of:

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE

EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS.

Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911.

(Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.)

It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

Edited September 4, 2011 by bangkok101

Boater · September 4, 2011

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in the territory of the said State..." The above quote is from Section 11 of: TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS. Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911. (Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.) It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

the only evidence that they have is a CCTV footage of him in 7-11 buying knives, which is very unclear and may not stand up in a court of law

Also , the police probably done 0 forensic evidence t the scene, IE DNA samples, finger printing of doors ect ect, i say this as the picture was the police touching everything in the apartment with there bear hands !

In a UK court, this would be thrown out as complete lack of police work, but we all know the police here have no forensic teams onto scenes of murders

i think it will be a wait and see, or maybe just maybe the uk might send him back on a backdoor deal for information on suspected UK criminals operating in Thailand??? .......

Considered Opinion · September 4, 2011

If he gets put in a Thai prison, he may wish he had received the death sentence instead.

The voice of deep knowledge obviously.

cup-O-coffee · September 4, 2011

I did a lot of Google research on this subject and no matter how you look at it, this man, Aldhouse, is an animal of the worst kind.

Kicked out of Muay Thai clubs for being over aggressive

Trying to bit a man's ear off in a bout

Beating the crap out of his GF

Picking fights in bars to test his skills

I also blame the Thai bar people who...

...served him drinks that night, and contributed to his crazed attitude

...did not detain him after the brawl to allow the victim get some distance between them and him

...did not contact the tourist police to detain this animal further

...the police in general, for not having laws to detain people who engage in fighting until the police can come and sort it out

On another matter, Aldhouse claims he does not want to be extradited because his human rights will be violated.

I am sorry to say I have to agree here; not for Aldhouse's benefit, but due to the fact that Thailand's image of law enforcement (or the lack thereof) is tarnished beyond any credibility.

They have effectively shot themselves in the foot whenever it comes to matters of having anyone extradited to their country on matters involving criminal activity. All one has to do is read the recent headlines over Phuket and other locations to see that Thailand has some serious issues in dealing with criminal matters involving foreigners. Additionally, consider the matter of the man who was in hospital and could not renew his visa, and got jailed in a sub standard cell when he demonstrated honesty and trust in the system to make his visa right.

No. There is a crime here, but Thailand is no place to be when it comes to seeking objective justice.

On a final note, any half decent UK attorney would have a field day shredding the evidence that the local police more than likely tampered and tainted at the crime scene.

It's called reasonable doubt; and in Thailand, that is all there is every day. This is not a slam. It is true in my opinion. The case against my views is what keeps this culture in a backwards motion.

Gers1873 · September 4, 2011

Reminder - as much as you may dislike this guy's demeanour/appearance/attitude he is innocent till proven guilty.

The alleged crime was committed in Thailand ergo the trial should be in Thailand.

Let the courts deal with the crime and if found guilty let him be sentenced accordingly to time in a Thai prison.

Not need for many of the emotive posts.

BOS2BKK · September 4, 2011

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State

applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in

the territory of the said State..."

The above quote is from Section 11 of:

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE

EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS.

Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911.

(Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.)

It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

There are literally dozens of witnesses. CCTV footage of him in the initial fight, CCTV footage of him robbing the knives from the 7-11 and CCTV footage of him in the hotel where he stabbed the Marine. I am pretty sure even the most liberal of courts would call this enough evidence to bring the man to trial. Why would you make a comment about the Thais falsifying documents? It is all but a gurantee that this extradition is being driven by the US not the Thai government. I am not sure if you remember this initial reporting of this case, but it was hardly a quiet crime. This guy went on a drunken drug addled rampage through the streets wielding knives covered in blood, the murder was only the most heinous of his crimes that evening.

Why is hating Thailand such a passion of people who post on this board? If you are that unhappy in Thailand why do you stay?

grumpyoldman · September 4, 2011

i am no lawyer, but he wont be leaving the UK,

his lawyer will use the Euro Human Rights Crap

- The right to a family life

Its what all the immigrants use to stop being deported to there homelands, and his lawyer will use this plus other clauses for lee not to be sent to thailand

Tough to sell that new age huggy kissy nonsense when there is a cut and dried murder case hanging overhead. Big difference between deporting an illegal who is staying with their family, and returning a murderer who was arrested at the airport fleeing from justice.

The fact that the UK government already negotiated the extradition to exclude the death penalty suggests he is going. If they weren't intending to let him go, they would not have gone to the effort of negotiating the extradition. They simply would have said no.

Honestly, we can't have a double standard either. We in the west are cracking down on Thailand as a haven for criminals, demanding they arrest and extradite our wanted men. Thailand has so far been cooperating to some degree. We can't be two faced. We have to return the favor. I think pressure on the Thai government to bring this guy to justice will be quite strong. The US doesn't look kindly on its servicemen being knifed by a well known drug addicted bully while they are on leave.

To answer some other posts. I am hardly a lawyer, but I don't see how the US could have any jurisdiction here other than political pressure. There is a law in the US that a US citizen can be prosecuted for class A felonies (severe crimes such as murder, rape and pedophilia) no matter where they occur in the world, but I don't see how they can apply this to a non US citizen? Any armchair TV lawyers out there care to set us straight on that?

Anyway. Regardless of your leanings or where your national loyalties lay (America hating seeming to be a major passtime on TV, second only to Thai hating) A murderer is a murderer and they need to be brought to justice, no matter where it happens. Taking the life of another human being outside the auspices of the state is completely unacceptable. It is an insult to the very fabric of society, and can not be tolerated.

Having been on TV for a few years, BOS2BKK, this is in my top 2 of best posts I've ever seen here. Excellent post.

Richard4849 · September 4, 2011

Yes, the legal system that released the Lockerbie bomber is so much more credible than the Thai one.

Boater · September 4, 2011

I did a lot of Google research on this subject and no matter how you look at it, this man, Aldhouse, is an animal of the worst kind. Kicked out of Muay Thai clubs for being over aggressive Trying to bit a man's ear off in a bout Beating the crap out of his GF Picking fights in bars to test his skills I also blame the Thai bar people who... ...served him drinks that night, and contributed to his crazed attitude ...did not detain him after the brawl to allow the victim get some distance between them and him ...did not contact the tourist police to detain this animal further ...the police in general, for not having laws to detain people who engage in fighting until the police can come and sort it out On another matter, Aldhouse claims he does not want to be extradited because his human rights will be violated. I am sorry to say I have to agree here; not for Aldhouse's benefit, but due to the fact that Thailand's image of law enforcement (or the lack thereof) is tarnished beyond any credibility. They have effectively shot themselves in the foot whenever it comes to matters of having anyone extradited to their country on matters involving criminal activity. All one has to do is read the recent headlines over Phuket and other locations to see that Thailand has some serious issues in dealing with criminal matters involving foreigners. Additionally, consider the matter of the man who was in hospital and could not renew his visa, and got jailed in a sub standard cell when he demonstrated honesty and trust in the system to make his visa right. No. There is a crime here, but Thailand is no place to be when it comes to seeking objective justice. On a final note, any half decent UK attorney would have a field day shredding the evidence that the local police more than likely tampered and tainted at the crime scene. It's called reasonable doubt; and in Thailand, that is all there is every day. This is not a slam. It is true in my opinion. The case against my views is what keeps this culture in a backwards motion.

Very Very Good Post - defo plus 1

any half decent UK attorney would have a field day shredding the evidence that the local police more than likely tampered and tainted at the crime scene

and this my friend is as per my other post.....

theoldgit · September 4, 2011

Not really, he can apply to serve his sentence in a UK prison, assuming he is convicted, using the 1984 Repatriation of Prisoners Act.

But this is not up to the UK. Just because the UK has a law that allows UK prisoners to return to be jailed there does not mean the Thais have to allow him to do that. It will be the subject of whatever treaties the Thais and Brits have in place. This stuff is far from cut and dried, and while we as westerners tend to think our rights and opinions take precedence, they don't. Thailand is a sovereign nations,and expat criminals are subject to their laws an applicable treaties. It kind of bothers me to see Expats talking about these things as if the Thai legal system (hahahahhahaha...thai legal system hahahaha) were some nuisance interfering with the proper execution of justice by their home courts. Thailand has a right to enforce its laws, whether they jibe with our laws or not.

I know his repatriation isn't a forgone conclusion, that why I said he can apply to serve his sentence in a UK prison, you are correct in suggesting, that whilst both countries are signatories to the act, they both have to agree to the transfer.

It's a very long process and not straightforward, if approved, they are not just stuck on a plane and sent home, prison staff from their home country travel to collect them and they are taken back in custody, and have to serve their sentence. The fact is that many prisoners in Thailand prefer to stay in Thailand in the expectation that they will benefit from a Royal Amnesty

BOS2BKK · September 4, 2011

The ranting on this thread is just more confirmation of entitled bitter British economic refugee expats thinking that they are above the law of any country but their own. Just because their dole payment goes farther in Thailand doesn't mean they have to be here. More reason to avoid all the Pattaya and Phuket dumps populated by the tightwad Chang drinking flip flop crowd.

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Sorry if this is random and off topic. I just figured all the rampant Thai/America bashing that goes on here on TV needed a counterpoint.

grumpyoldman · September 4, 2011

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in the territory of the said State..." The above quote is from Section 11 of: TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS. Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911. (Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.) It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal. 
 
the only evidence that they have is a CCTV footage of him in 7-11 buying knives, which is very unclear and may not stand up in a court of law

Also , the police probably done 0 forensic evidence t the scene, IE DNA samples, finger printing of doors ect ect, i say this as the picture was the police touching everything in the apartment with there bear hands !

In a UK court, this would be thrown out as complete lack of police work, but we all know the police here have no forensic teams onto scenes of murders

i think it will be a wait and see, or maybe just maybe the uk might send him back on a backdoor deal for information on suspected UK criminals operating in Thailand??? .......

Wrong Boater, you say they have footage of him buying the knives? Wrong. Footage shows a clearly inebriated scumbag stealing the knives and frightening the employees there.

Do us a favor, if you don't know the facts don't comment on this matter anymore. i have friends that were there and I know the 7-11 employees.

For the poster who blames the bar owner, I agree. The matter began when the deceased was blocked from using the bathroom by scumbag murderer. Now, why was scumbag murderer keeping people out of the bathroom.......

Edited September 4, 2011 by grumpyoldman

BOS2BKK · September 4, 2011

Having been on TV for a few years, BOS2BKK, this is in my top 2 of best posts I've ever seen here. Excellent post.

Wow...I have been on Thia visa as a creeper for some time, but only recently posting. I have however been an opinionated asshol_e most of my life. I take that as a great complement. Thank you very much.

dmcguire70 · September 4, 2011

Found this.

I'm confused ,the video says Lee "The Pitbull" from the USA.

The smaller Thai guy he was fighting ,gave him a run for his money.

Seems to me as though the murder was a case of roid rage, so I hope this animal/bully gets extradited and gets a nice long spell in a dirty cockroach infested putrid Thai prison cell.

Nisa · September 4, 2011

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

I think you are wrong. Regardless if he is a citizen of the US or a Serviceman the killing was a personal one and not related to any way to terrorism, war or any kind of attack on America. Regardless of what the US may wish, their laws can only be for their own citizens or those who commit acts within the US borders or controlled areas or that somehow threaten those areas and/or the people within them.

toffo9 · September 4, 2011

If he is guilty, then a thai jail cell for life is a decent compensation for his behavior. When a man who is a trained fighter attacks another man, and beats him to death, then he is simply a goon, a goomba, and a wannabe gangster. Of course, there are few Brits that fit that category.

You might want to read the original story. This scumbag "tough guy" started a fight with a combat Marine fresh from Afghanistan, and got his ass handed to him. Totally embarrassed, he left the bar, went to 7-11, stole 2 knives, followed the Marine back to where he was staying, knocked on the door and when the Marine opened the door, this piece of cowardly shit stabbed him to death in front of the Marine's g/f, then ran like a bitch.

marine marine marine <deleted> shut up... The fact is he could have been anyone from anywhere so stop this combat fresh marine crap its boring... An innocent man lost his life to a coward who used a knife and hopefully will be locked up for a long time but plz stop all this gun ho crap

grumpyoldman · September 4, 2011

If he is guilty, then a thai jail cell for life is a decent compensation for his behavior. When a man who is a trained fighter attacks another man, and beats him to death, then he is simply a goon, a goomba, and a wannabe gangster. Of course, there are few Brits that fit that category.

You might want to read the original story. This scumbag "tough guy" started a fight with a combat Marine fresh from Afghanistan, and got his ass handed to him. Totally embarrassed, he left the bar, went to 7-11, stole 2 knives, followed the Marine back to where he was staying, knocked on the door and when the Marine opened the door, this piece of cowardly shit stabbed him to death in front of the Marine's g/f, then ran like a bitch.

marine marine marine <deleted> shut up... The fact is he could have been anyone from anywhere so stop this combat fresh marine crap its boring... An innocent man lost his life to a coward who used a knife and hopefully will be locked up for a long time but plz stop all this gun ho crap

Gung ho, I think is the expression. Gun ho would be a Nana bargirl brandishing a pistol.

moe666 · September 4, 2011

Why would the US extradite him they both where under Thai laws when the murder took place. The big blow up in Aruba a few years ago, when the high school girl was killed didn't elicit a request of extradition of the dutch kid

This case doesn't even register a blip on the radar scope of important things in the states. The fellow who was murdered didn't have anyone in high places to argue his case, SOL

The USA only cares about terroist, and drug dealers.

chooka · September 4, 2011

If he gets put in a Thai prison, he may wish he had received the death sentence instead.

I guess if found guilty then his life is over, he will die a long slow death in a thai rat, coachroach infested cage. will probably last 2 yrs. The death penalty would be the humane way.

Richard4849 · September 4, 2011

Why would the US extradite him they both where under Thai laws when the murder took place. The big blow up in Aruba a few years ago, when the high school girl was killed didn't elicit a request of extradition of the dutch kid

This case doesn't even register a blip on the radar scope of important things in the states. The fellow who was murdered didn't have anyone in high places to argue his case, SOL

The USA only cares about terroist, and drug dealers.

...and pedophiles.

Boater · September 4, 2011

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in the territory of the said State..." The above quote is from Section 11 of: TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS. Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911. (Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.) It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal. 
 the only evidence that they have is a CCTV footage of him in 7-11 buying knives, which is very unclear and may not stand up in a court of law Also , the police probably done 0 forensic evidence t the scene, IE DNA samples, finger printing of doors ect ect, i say this as the picture was the police touching everything in the apartment with there bear hands ! In a UK court, this would be thrown out as complete lack of police work, but we all know the police here have no forensic teams onto scenes of murders i think it will be a wait and see, or maybe just maybe the uk might send him back on a backdoor deal for information on suspected UK criminals operating in Thailand??? ....... 
 Wrong Boater, you say they have footage of him buying the knives? Wrong. Footage shows a clearly inebriated scumbag stealing the knives and frightening the employees there. Do us a favor, if you don't know the facts don't comment on this matter anymore. i have friends that were there and I know the 7-11 employees. For the poster who blames the bar owner, I agree. The matter began when the deceased was blocked from using the bathroom by scumbag murderer. Now, why was scumbag murderer keeping people out of the bathroom.......

sorry, my mistake , he stole the Knives

But there is one fact, NO ONE knows all the facts that happened that Night !

Richard4849 · September 4, 2011

The witnesses do...

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