British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[chooka]

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

I think you are wrong. Regardless if he is a citizen of the US or a Serviceman the killing was a personal one and not related to any way to terrorism, war or any kind of attack on America. Regardless of what the US may wish, their laws can only be for their own citizens or those who commit acts within the US borders or controlled areas or that somehow threaten those areas and/or the people within them.

U.S law is the Ultimate law and over rides the laws of every country and they have juristiction in every corner of the globe. Well at least they think.

[dmcguire70]

i am no lawyer, but he wont be leaving the UK,

his lawyer will use the Euro Human Rights Crap

- The right to a family life

Its what all the immigrants use to stop being deported to there homelands, and his lawyer will use this plus other clauses for lee not to be sent to thailand

I think you may well be right. He'll argue his human rights will be violated in a Thai prison because he won't be allowed his color tv, xbox and mobile 'phone !!

.......and his Steroids!

[Richard4849]

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

I think you are wrong. Regardless if he is a citizen of the US or a Serviceman the killing was a personal one and not related to any way to terrorism, war or any kind of attack on America. Regardless of what the US may wish, their laws can only be for their own citizens or those who commit acts within the US borders or controlled areas or that somehow threaten those areas and/or the people within them.

U.S law is the Ultimate law and over rides the laws of every country and they have juristiction in every corner of the globe. Well at least they think.

I've been waiting...knew it was coming. Let's bash the US now!

[grumpyoldman]

The witnesses do...

Boater, there are more facts, you just want to go nebulous here for whatever reason, I guess you are a Brit? Standing up for your steroided out freakazoid countryman?

Fact: a man murdered

Fact: plenty of witnesses saw the initial fight

Fact: Footage showing scumbag coward stealing the knives (although you seem to think he politely stepped up and paid for the knives)

Fact: There is a witness to the stabbing

Fact: Stolen knives confirmed by 7-11 employees, recovered.

[BOS2BKK]

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

I think you are wrong. Regardless if he is a citizen of the US or a Serviceman the killing was a personal one and not related to any way to terrorism, war or any kind of attack on America. Regardless of what the US may wish, their laws can only be for their own citizens or those who commit acts within the US borders or controlled areas or that somehow threaten those areas and/or the people within them.

U.S law is the Ultimate law and over rides the laws of every country and they have juristiction in every corner of the globe. Well at least they think.

I've been waiting...knew it was coming. Let's bash the US now!

It is the number two passtime on TV second only to Bashing Thailand. How dare we arrogant Americans ask for the prosecution of a murderer.

[dmcguire70]

This video APPARENTLY shows the accused obtaining the knives in said 7/11, only minutes before the murder.

[biplanebluey]

If he gets put in a Thai prison, he may wish he had received the death sentence instead.

My thoughts exactly !!!!!!!!

[PoorSucker]

Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

All go-go bars charge more then 100 baht here on Samui.

[plumeria]

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

I think you are wrong. Regardless if he is a citizen of the US or a Serviceman the killing was a personal one and not related to any way to terrorism, war or any kind of attack on America. Regardless of what the US may wish, their laws can only be for their own citizens or those who commit acts within the US borders or controlled areas or that somehow threaten those areas and/or the people within them.

That's funny!

... "their laws can only be for their own citizens ..."?

The US government does whatever it wants to whoever it wants whenever it wants. It can even suspend the US Bill of Rights with a string of Executive Decrees. It can authorize terrorism and get away with it by having a staff lawyer write a memo saying it's OK.

If the US government cared at all about this marine the accused would already be in the USA.

"Crows do not peck out the eyes of other crows."

The good old boys will never turn on each other. The US and UK are best buds. BFF.

[OnTheRun]

The ranting on this thread is just more confirmation of entitled bitter British economic refugee expats thinking that they are above the law of any country but their own. Just because their dole payment goes farther in Thailand doesn't mean they have to be here. More reason to avoid all the Pattaya and Phuket dumps populated by the tightwad Chang drinking flip flop crowd.

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Sorry if this is random and off topic. I just figured all the rampant Thai/America bashing that goes on here on TV needed a counterpoint.

I'm delighted for you Anyone boasting about 'sticking to high class places' & paying over the odds for a beer is best avoided anyway IMO.

[plumeria]

The witnesses do...

Boater, there are more facts, you just want to go nebulous here for whatever reason, I guess you are a Brit? Standing up for your steroided out freakazoid countryman?

Fact: a man murdered

Fact: plenty of witnesses saw the initial fight

Fact: Footage showing scumbag coward stealing the knives (although you seem to think he politely stepped up and paid for the knives)

Fact: There is a witness to the stabbing

Fact: Stolen knives confirmed by 7-11 employees, recovered.

I have not read the details but if they are saying he killed the other guy by stabbing him with a Thai knife then I already have reasonable doubt ... a spoon in my book is not a deadly weapon

Oh, cmon.

I'm not even a weapons expert or a marine or a martial artist and even I know how many ways a spoon could be a deadly weapon.

[chrisandsu]

wow boss you attack Brits and then whine like a little girl when someone rises to your bait! Starbucks and free wifi time is it?

[SteeleJoe]

I will be absolutely delighted if this piece of s*^t winds up in prison for a nice long time (I'd prefer life but I doubt he'll serve that).

<br />I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

'Even with the victim being a serviceman'? That has zero to do with it -- nor would it matter any other case of a similar nature, anywhere. And what would his lawyers have the US charge him with? And why would those charges take precedence over the major crime he committed in Thailand?

[plumeria]

If he is guilty, then a thai jail cell for life is a decent compensation for his behavior. When a man who is a trained fighter attacks another man, and beats him to death, then he is simply a goon, a goomba, and a wannabe gangster. Of course, there are few Brits that fit that category.

You might want to read the original story. This scumbag "tough guy" started a fight with a combat Marine fresh from Afghanistan, and got his ass handed to him. Totally embarrassed, he left the bar, went to 7-11, stole 2 knives, followed the Marine back to where he was staying, knocked on the door and when the Marine opened the door, this piece of cowardly shit stabbed him to death in front of the Marine's g/f, then ran like a bitch.

marine marine marine &lt;deleted&gt; shut up... The fact is he could have been anyone from anywhere so stop this combat fresh marine crap its boring... An innocent man lost his life to a coward who used a knife and hopefully will be locked up for a long time but plz stop all this gun ho crap

Gung ho, I think is the expression. Gun ho would be a Nana bargirl brandishing a pistol.

You should sell that one to David Letterman or Bill Maher! Or are you already a writer on The Daily Show?

[bangkok101]

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State

applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in

the territory of the said State..."

The above quote is from Section 11 of:

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE

EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS.

Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911.

(Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.)

It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

There are literally dozens of witnesses. CCTV footage of him in the initial fight, CCTV footage of him robbing the knives from the 7-11 and CCTV footage of him in the hotel where he stabbed the Marine. I am pretty sure even the most liberal of courts would call this enough evidence to bring the man to trial. Why would you make a comment about the Thais falsifying documents? It is all but a gurantee that this extradition is being driven by the US not the Thai government. I am not sure if you remember this initial reporting of this case, but it was hardly a quiet crime. This guy went on a drunken drug addled rampage through the streets wielding knives covered in blood, the murder was only the most heinous of his crimes that evening.

Why is hating Thailand such a passion of people who post on this board? If you are that unhappy in Thailand why do you stay?\\

No hate, no bias, just the facts. And, why would you assume any facts that are unsubstantiated? Reread your post, give it a little more thought, and then put the pen on the paper. Keep things clear and to the point objectively. Falsifying documents....in TH....who are you trying fool except yourself?

[Thailand]

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Not me, wouldn't go in to any bar unless I could pay at least 350฿ for a small bottle of Chang, any cheaper than that it simply would not have the class and would not warrant my custom.

[plumeria]

Reminder - as much as you may dislike this guy's demeanour/appearance/attitude he is innocent till proven guilty.

The alleged crime was committed in Thailand ergo the trial should be in Thailand.

Let the courts deal with the crime and if found guilty let him be sentenced accordingly to time in a Thai prison.

Not need for many of the emotive posts.

Emotive posts are the draw of THAIVISA forum, aren't they? Ranging from insightful and brilliant to unimaginably naive and/or stupid, why else come here?

[Boater]

<br />

<br />The witnesses do...<br />

<br />Boater, there are more facts, you just want to go nebulous here for whatever reason, I guess you are a Brit? Standing up for your steroided out freakazoid countryman?<br /><br />Fact: a man murdered<br />Fact: plenty of witnesses saw the initial fight<br />Fact: Footage showing scumbag coward stealing the knives (although you seem to think he politely stepped up and paid for the knives)<br />Fact: There is a witness to the stabbing<br />Fact: Stolen knives confirmed by 7-11 employees, recovered.<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Grumpoldman

untill you know the complete facts you should not comment anymore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am not defening this guy, but untill the facts and evidnce is brought before a court of law he is innocent untill proven guilty

and yes i am a brit

But

Something ver similar happened to me over 10 years ago, same situation, and i was only a WITNESS, but someone got killed in the same manor, although the killer DID not intend to kill , only warn, but the person he killed ATTACKED him

Whats to ay he didnt go to the room that night, and the deceased attacked him while feeling an attack might take place?????????

NO ONE knowes the true events of that night , only as i had a similar experanice years ago can i relate to this story

[crgram]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

I don't think so...since the victim was traveling as a private citizen, both parties were private citizens. Military or not, the US is less help than most in this type of situation.

cr

He was not traveling as a private citizen. He was an active duty Marine on liberty (medical leave? I have seen both listed). The US has had a formal Status of Forces Agreement with Thailand since the 1960s that allow us to place military personnel in various capacities in Thailand and encourages the Military to use the Thai resorts as leave and liberty destinations. That is why in Pattaya and Phuket when the ships are in you can spot uniformed US Navy and Marine Police around the bar areas operating with the permission of the Thai government. Generally party to these SOFA's are guarantees regarding the various crimes that inevitably occur with military men on leave.

I generally agree with your sentiments but when military personnel are traveling on leave they are traveling as a civilian. "Liberty" from your ship or duty station is a different thing. The SOF doesn't apply because the crime wasn't committed by the Marine. If the the US wanted to get involved, the reason would be the same as for any other citizen. Which I don't think they will. I just hope the coward gets put in jail (at least) some where for a long time.

cr

[plumeria]

Not really, he can apply to serve his sentence in a UK prison, assuming he is convicted, using the 1984 Repatriation of Prisoners Act.

But this is not up to the UK. Just because the UK has a law that allows UK prisoners to return to be jailed there does not mean the Thais have to allow him to do that. It will be the subject of whatever treaties the Thais and Brits have in place. This stuff is far from cut and dried, and while we as westerners tend to think our rights and opinions take precedence, they don't. Thailand is a sovereign nations,and expat criminals are subject to their laws an applicable treaties. It kind of bothers me to see Expats talking about these things as if the Thai legal system (hahahahhahaha...thai legal system hahahaha) were some nuisance interfering with the proper execution of justice by their home courts. Thailand has a right to enforce its laws, whether they jibe with our laws or not.

I know his repatriation isn't a forgone conclusion, that why I said he can apply to serve his sentence in a UK prison, you are correct in suggesting, that whilst both countries are signatories to the act, they both have to agree to the transfer.

It's a very long process and not straightforward, if approved, they are not just stuck on a plane and sent home, prison staff from their home country travel to collect them and they are taken back in custody, and have to serve their sentence. The fact is that many prisoners in Thailand prefer to stay in Thailand in the expectation that they will benefit from a Royal Amnesty

THAT'S one of the insightful posts I am talking about! Good one! Murder is an 8-year stretch in Thailand because of Royal Amnesty. Would jail in Thailand truly be worse or longer than the UK? At least the guy is off the street and out of the bars at present.

[plumeria]

If he is guilty, then a thai jail cell for life is a decent compensation for his behavior. When a man who is a trained fighter attacks another man, and beats him to death, then he is simply a goon, a goomba, and a wannabe gangster. Of course, there are few Brits that fit that category.

he was stabbed to death

and the end of the day, if the UK gverment cant even deport back rapists and murders from the UK to there home countries due to the Euro Court of Human Rights, i highly doubt Lee will be sent back to thailand

So the UK can refuse to use the Euro but must bow to the Euro Court? What's wrong with this picture?

[OnTheRun]

If he is guilty, then a thai jail cell for life is a decent compensation for his behavior. When a man who is a trained fighter attacks another man, and beats him to death, then he is simply a goon, a goomba, and a wannabe gangster. Of course, there are few Brits that fit that category.

he was stabbed to death

and the end of the day, if the UK gverment cant even deport back rapists and murders from the UK to there home countries due to the Euro Court of Human Rights, i highly doubt Lee will be sent back to thailand

So the UK can refuse to use the Euro but must bow to the Euro Court? What's wrong with this picture?

They are two completely different issues. Unfortunately the UK has signed up to the European Court and has to abide by it's decisions. It seems to put the rights of the accused higher than those of the victims. Sad but true.

[jimbeam1]

Let's have a nice round of Brit bashing. After all, we'd be having a good go at the whole Thai nation had it been a Thai.

Edit: Would to wrongs make a right then...

Exactly. So lets hope that Thailand puts to right much of it's wrongs first. To show a good example.

jb1

[plumeria]

The ranting on this thread is just more confirmation of entitled bitter British economic refugee expats thinking that they are above the law of any country but their own. Just because their dole payment goes farther in Thailand doesn't mean they have to be here. More reason to avoid all the Pattaya and Phuket dumps populated by the tightwad Chang drinking flip flop crowd.

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Sorry if this is random and off topic. I just figured all the rampant Thai/America bashing that goes on here on TV needed a counterpoint.

I stick to "high class"???

Right, the "high class" get their underlings to do the dirty work. Good counterpoint.

[plumeria]

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State

applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in

the territory of the said State..."

The above quote is from Section 11 of:

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE

EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS.

Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911.

(Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.)

It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

There are literally dozens of witnesses. CCTV footage of him in the initial fight, CCTV footage of him robbing the knives from the 7-11 and CCTV footage of him in the hotel where he stabbed the Marine. I am pretty sure even the most liberal of courts would call this enough evidence to bring the man to trial. Why would you make a comment about the Thais falsifying documents? It is all but a gurantee that this extradition is being driven by the US not the Thai government. I am not sure if you remember this initial reporting of this case, but it was hardly a quiet crime. This guy went on a drunken drug addled rampage through the streets wielding knives covered in blood, the murder was only the most heinous of his crimes that evening.

Why is hating Thailand such a passion of people who post on this board? If you are that unhappy in Thailand why do you stay?

But your sweeping generalizations add value to TV.

However, have to agree that's hard to understand why the whining foreigners don't go home to the 'good life'.

Edited September 4, 2011 by plumeria

[plumeria]

Why would the US extradite him they both where under Thai laws when the murder took place. The big blow up in Aruba a few years ago, when the high school girl was killed didn't elicit a request of extradition of the dutch kid

This case doesn't even register a blip on the radar scope of important things in the states. The fellow who was murdered didn't have anyone in high places to argue his case, SOL

The USA only cares about terroist, and drug dealers.

You have actually bought into that "tail wagging the dog" crap that anything the US government is doing is about terrorism or drugs???

One of the great advantages/benefits/blessings/revelations of Americans living outside the USA is that they can get some true perspective and don't have to swallow that nonsense hook line and sinker.

Doesn't everybody (EXCEPT Yanks living in "the World") already understand the dynamic between the law, prison and the big money being made running overflowing prison systems? Doesn't everybody but the Americans already know the truth about 9/11? Doesn't everybody but Americans living in America know the truth about Bin Laden and the entire so-called terrorist threat?

[Wallaby]

The US has absolutely no jurisdiction to have anything at all to do with the case.

His lawyers cannot go through the evidence with a fine tooth comb when arguing against extradition, that is what a trial is for. The extradition hearing does not have to consider if he murdered the guy beyond a reasonable doubt, that is for the Thai court to determine.

All the UK is concerned with is whether he has been charged, is there enough prima facie evidence to warrant that charge (not beyond reasonable doubt that he did it), and consider the human rights aspect.

If the UK doesn't extradite him then that is the end of the matter, the US can do nothing, unless of course they conduct an extraordinary rendition and have him tortured in Egypt then have him disappear in a black hole for a few years.

[rgs2001uk]

The ranting on this thread is just more confirmation of entitled bitter British economic refugee expats thinking that they are above the law of any country but their own. Just because their dole payment goes farther in Thailand doesn't mean they have to be here. More reason to avoid all the Pattaya and Phuket dumps populated by the tightwad Chang drinking flip flop crowd.

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Sorry if this is random and off topic. I just figured all the rampant Thai/America bashing that goes on here on TV needed a counterpoint.

I stick to "high class"???

Right, the "high class" get their underlings to do the dirty work. Good counterpoint.

The high class or HiSo carry out executions in nightclubs safe in the knowledge they can do it with impunity.

[BOS2BKK]

The ranting on this thread is just more confirmation of entitled bitter British economic refugee expats thinking that they are above the law of any country but their own. Just because their dole payment goes farther in Thailand doesn't mean they have to be here. More reason to avoid all the Pattaya and Phuket dumps populated by the tightwad Chang drinking flip flop crowd.

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Sorry if this is random and off topic. I just figured all the rampant Thai/America bashing that goes on here on TV needed a counterpoint.

I stick to "high class"???

Right, the "high class" get their underlings to do the dirty work. Good counterpoint.

The high class or HiSo carry out executions in nightclubs safe in the knowledge they can do it with impunity.

Good to see I was able to stir the pot.

[Richard4849]

The ranting on this thread is just more confirmation of entitled bitter British economic refugee expats thinking that they are above the law of any country but their own. Just because their dole payment goes farther in Thailand doesn't mean they have to be here. More reason to avoid all the Pattaya and Phuket dumps populated by the tightwad Chang drinking flip flop crowd.

I love being in Thailand, I encounter none of these problems with the law or crooked taxi's or angry thai boyfriends weilding machetes. Probably because I stick to high class places that charge more than 100 Baht for a beer, so no Brit would be caught dead in them.

Sorry if this is random and off topic. I just figured all the rampant Thai/America bashing that goes on here on TV needed a counterpoint.

I stick to "high class"???

Right, the "high class" get their underlings to do the dirty work. Good counterpoint.

The high class or HiSo carry out executions in nightclubs safe in the knowledge they can do it with impunity.

There is nothing "HiSo" or high class about the Yubamrung family. The real high society would spit on them.