Pardon For Thaksin Is The Mandate Of HM: Chalerm

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SHINAWATRA GOVERNMENT

Pardon for Thaksin is the mandate of HM: Chalerm

By Pimnara Pradubwit

Piyanart Srivalo

Piyanuch Tamnukasetchai

The Nation

Any decision on an amnesty for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is "rightfully the mandate of the King", Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said yesterday.

Chalerm declined to elaborate on the law, but said he would give an explanatory lecture to the opposition if it asked him during a session of the House of Representatives.

Responding to reporters' questions on whether it was necessary for convicted people to serve a penalty before receiving a royal pardon, Chalerm said: "That is only one of the possible procedures. I don't want to explain, otherwise it would be an issue.

"Don't ask the prime minister about this, as she has assigned me to take care of this [Thaksin's royal pardon]. We are not supposed to talk about it. The issue lies within the mandate of the King."

In 2008, Thaksin was sentenced to two years' jail related to a land purchase by his wife at the time, Khunying Pojaman na Pombejra. He has been living in exile ever since.

Asked why Thaksin's petition for a royal pardon had progressed so rapidly when Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra had been in office for only a few weeks, Chalerm said it had been done with righteousness that he could explain fully.

After Chalerm's interview, his assistant gave copies of a document to reporters. Signed by Chalerm, it said the law did not specify the kind of cases for which His Majesty the King could or could not give a royal pardon, how long a penalty the convict must serve before seeking a royal pardon, or the prohibitions on a fugitive seeking a royal pardon.

Justice Minister Pracha Promnok said he had not acknowledged the location of the petition for a royal pardon for Thaksin. Department of Corrections director-general Chartchai Suthiklom said last week that his department had completed its role, as signatures supporting the petition had been verified and submitted to the ministry.

Chartchai said that of 3.6 million signatures, about 2 million were verified against the census, while the others contained irregularities.

Pracha said he did not know whether the Department of Corrections had submitted an opinion on the petition since the Democrats' Pirapan Salirathavibhaga was justice minister. Pirapan on Sunday wrote on Facebook that Yingluck should not submit the petition to His Majesty, as Thaksin had fled the country and had not served his sentence.

According to the law, people eligible to petition include the convict, the stakeholder and the judge, Pracha said. In principle, no one can stop the process of seeking a royal pardon and a justice minister can submit petitions to His Majesty the King case-by-case.

Yingluck said yesterday that people should pay more attention to the government's work and let the quest for a royal pardon for her brother Thaksin progress according to procedures.

"I have never said we will give priority to the petition for a royal pardon as our policy. Please let the related agency consider it and we will take a look at the conclusion again," she said.

She added that help for Thaksin had not been included in the government's policies that had been presented to Parliament.

-- The Nation 2011-09-06

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[Buchholz]

"Don't ask the prime minister about this"

That seems to be the common mantra with this administration.

After Chalerm's interview, his assistant gave copies of a document to reporters. Signed by Chalerm, it said the law did not specify the kind of cases for which His Majesty the King could or could not give a royal pardon, how long a penalty the convict must serve before seeking a royal pardon, or the prohibitions on a fugitive seeking a royal pardon.

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

[siampolee]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

[Thai at Heart]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

I reckon so. This law seems pretty much set in stone, and I don't expect it to change any time soon

[coma]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

[Buchholz]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

I reckon so. This law seems pretty much set in stone, and I don't expect it to change any time soon

Based on Deputy Prime Minister Police Captain Pheu Thai Party MP Chalerm's establishing a "War Room" to seek out new offenders, it would seem so.

.

[Bakseedaa]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

Unluckily he can afford it SP.... with others moneys..!

[Crushdepth]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

That's the plan.

[Thai at Heart]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

That's the plan.

Depends if they want a coup or not.

[pedro01]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

That's the plan.

Depends if they want a coup or not.

It does appear that they want to bring things to a head. Basically to shift responsibility of this 'pardon' to the Royal Household in any way possible. If it gets rejected it'll be people in the street and then what? Will they take over until Thaksin is given a pardon?

Chalerm, Yingluck, Thaksin & the UDD are not stupid. This along with their 'red villages' appears to be a push towards calling the bluff of the army, who will certainly face opposition in any coup attempt.

[Thai at Heart]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

That's the plan.

Depends if they want a coup or not.

It does appear that they want to bring things to a head. Basically to shift responsibility of this 'pardon' to the Royal Household in any way possible. If it gets rejected it'll be people in the street and then what? Will they take over until Thaksin is given a pardon?

Chalerm, Yingluck, Thaksin & the UDD are not stupid. This along with their 'red villages' appears to be a push towards calling the bluff of the army, who will certainly face opposition in any coup attempt.

They aren't stupid, but I think they may be over estimating the willingness of the people to take to streets apparently "against" someone who is so revered. It would also give the army the absolute justification to step in. People on the street to protest in this situation would shake the very foundation of modern Thailand and would never be allowed to happen. There wouldn't be any sitting on hands while people were allowed to set up large scale protest.

The way they are going about this will have to be handled extremely deftly so I don't think that having people on the streets is part of the plan. This petition will not be allowed to compel any decision. No way.

[Insight]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

That's the plan.

Depends if they want a coup or not.

It does appear that they want to bring things to a head. Basically to shift responsibility of this 'pardon' to the Royal Household in any way possible. If it gets rejected it'll be people in the street and then what? Will they take over until Thaksin is given a pardon?

Chalerm, Yingluck, Thaksin & the UDD are not stupid. This along with their 'red villages' appears to be a push towards calling the bluff of the army, who will certainly face opposition in any coup attempt.

If the red shirt (leadership) attempted to rally against any decision not to pardon Thaksin, it would be a real indication of priorities to both reds and non-reds alike. They may meet more resistance than they were counting on.

[OzMick]

I have never said that we will give this priority..................It was never presented to parliament as a policy.................I have appointed Chalerm to take care of this.

from the special minister for platitudes, prevarications and perjury.

[scorecard]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

I reckon so. This law seems pretty much set in stone, and I don't expect it to change any time soon

And how come there have been numerous specific comments over the last few years from numerous official and unofficial sources saying that amnesty can only be given if the person has served time.

But now suddenly chalerm says that's not true.

Which is right?

[KRS1]

Red Shirts are such low lifes, and back to their games to obtain ABSOLUTE power, by putting pressure on such a revered establishment which has done so much for the people.

This time it is going to go down even harder than previous riots thai against thai in a civil war.

[Thai at Heart]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

I reckon so. This law seems pretty much set in stone, and I don't expect it to change any time soon

And how come there have been numerous specific comments over the last few years from numerous official and unofficial sources saying that amnesty can only be given if the person has served time.

But now suddenly chalerm says that's not true.

Which is right?

I presume that is a rhetorical question.

[geriatrickid]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

Please note that the gentleman is Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung not Police Captain. Would you have referred to the defeated PM Abhisit as Ajarn Mark? After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.

You disagree with the law. What else is new? The onus is on you to show that the law does not allow for a pardon request to be made. A pardon can be requested, but a pardon does not have to be granted. Have you even read the law? Look at what it says;

Individual Royal Pardon is granted as a matter of routine procedure. Any convicted prisoner or a concerned person wishing to petition his Majesty the King praying for pardon may do so by submitting such petition through official channel. However, whether or not the pardon is granted shall be subject to the King's discretion based on the recommendation submitted by the Minister of Justice. Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice

I suggest that you and your friends make an effort and read the law. The request for a pardon is lawful. There is no requirement for there to have been any time in custody served. Read the big paragraph below. If you have a problem with the law, go and lobby to have the law changed.

The pardon may be either in the form of an unconditional release,a commutation or reduction of punishment. This depends on the discretion of HisMajesty the King as stated in Section 221 and 225 of the Constitution (B.E.2540) and Section 259 to 267 of Division 7: Pardon, Commutation and Reductionof Punishment in the Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No. 23), B.E. 2548.Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice.

The reason that the pardon process is being moved along now is that other pardons will most likely be granted on December 5.

[Crushdepth]

This has got *nothing* to do with getting a pardon for Thaksin.

[EyesWideOpen]

I love this place !!!!!! Here we have one crook working on pardoning another crook.. Miracle Thailand indeed, where the inmates have taken over the asylum... :-)

[timekeeper]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

Please note that the gentleman is Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung not Police Captain. Would you have referred to the defeated PM Abhisit as Ajarn Mark? After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.

You disagree with the law. What else is new? The onus is on you to show that the law does not allow for a pardon request to be made. A pardon can be requested, but a pardon does not have to be granted. Have you even read the law? Look at what it says;

Individual Royal Pardon is granted as a matter of routine procedure. Any convicted prisoner or a concerned person wishing to petition his Majesty the King praying for pardon may do so by submitting such petition through official channel. However, whether or not the pardon is granted shall be subject to the King's discretion based on the recommendation submitted by the Minister of Justice. Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice

I suggest that you and your friends make an effort and read the law. The request for a pardon is lawful. There is no requirement for there to have been any time in custody served. Read the big paragraph below. If you have a problem with the law, go and lobby to have the law changed.

The pardon may be either in the form of an unconditional release,a commutation or reduction of punishment. This depends on the discretion of HisMajesty the King as stated in Section 221 and 225 of the Constitution (B.E.2540) and Section 259 to 267 of Division 7: Pardon, Commutation and Reductionof Punishment in the Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No. 23), B.E. 2548.Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice.

The reason that the pardon process is being moved along now is that other pardons will most likely be granted on December 5.

''After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.''

you told me in another thread that he had never done any work outside politics and that i was wrong for saying he had worked

more evidence of you being an dunce..................

Edited September 6, 2011 by timekeeper

[Thai at Heart]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

Please note that the gentleman is Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung not Police Captain. Would you have referred to the defeated PM Abhisit as Ajarn Mark? After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.

You disagree with the law. What else is new? The onus is on you to show that the law does not allow for a pardon request to be made. A pardon can be requested, but a pardon does not have to be granted. Have you even read the law? Look at what it says;

Individual Royal Pardon is granted as a matter of routine procedure. Any convicted prisoner or a concerned person wishing to petition his Majesty the King praying for pardon may do so by submitting such petition through official channel. However, whether or not the pardon is granted shall be subject to the King's discretion based on the recommendation submitted by the Minister of Justice. Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice

I suggest that you and your friends make an effort and read the law. The request for a pardon is lawful. There is no requirement for there to have been any time in custody served. Read the big paragraph below. If you have a problem with the law, go and lobby to have the law changed.

The pardon may be either in the form of an unconditional release,a commutation or reduction of punishment. This depends on the discretion of HisMajesty the King as stated in Section 221 and 225 of the Constitution (B.E.2540) and Section 259 to 267 of Division 7: Pardon, Commutation and Reductionof Punishment in the Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No. 23), B.E. 2548.Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice.

The reason that the pardon process is being moved along now is that other pardons will most likely be granted on December 5.

''After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.''

you told me in another thread that he had never done any work outside politics and that i was wrong for saying he had worked

more evidence of you being an dunce..................

Wasn't that as part of his national service? If so, that doesn't really class itself as work per se.

[hammered]

Very sneeky ploy here by the Phea Thai leadership. Talk about putting the sqeeze on. How will the red shirts react if the pardon is rejected? Sneeky. Very sneeky indeed.

That's the plan.

Depends if they want a coup or not.

It does appear that they want to bring things to a head. Basically to shift responsibility of this 'pardon' to the Royal Household in any way possible. If it gets rejected it'll be people in the street and then what? Will they take over until Thaksin is given a pardon?

Chalerm, Yingluck, Thaksin & the UDD are not stupid. This along with their 'red villages' appears to be a push towards calling the bluff of the army, who will certainly face opposition in any coup attempt.

It is almost impossible to pull a coup right now. There will be utter chaos. The international community will not be easy on it this time. There is no popular movement on the streets demanding anything. Lots of people are awaiting things form the populist policies and wont take kindly to any extra-parliamentary action that stops these I would guess that PTP know given time some of these things may change, but right now they have all the momentum. They have certainly learnt since Samak days that to sit back and go easy is to invite downfall.

I still think the legislative amnesty is the likely way (after all that is the route the coupmeisters used to amnesty themselves) but that is complicated by the red shirts continually rejecting amnestying anyone who was involved in the April/May stuff in way at all. They are demanding that is investigated and people punished.

In reality the full court press may just be PTP pushing hard while they cement their control over the bureaucracy which right now is still stuffed at the higher levels at least with people promoted by the Dem-BJT axis because they were known and trusted anti-PTPers

[Buchholz]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

Please note that the gentleman is Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung not Police Captain. Would you have referred to the defeated PM Abhisit as Ajarn Mark?

The guy is actually Deputy Prime Minister Police Captain Dr. Chalerm.

If you have a problem with him being addressed as Police Captain, you should take up your problem with all the media outlets as well as official government websites that address him as such. You must be unfamiliar with the custom in Thailand of addressing police and military officials, irregardless of their current status, by their rank. If you read more news articles or visit government websites, you'll discover this intricacy of Thailand.

If the title Ajarn was utilized as an official title (the same as police or military titles are), then one would expect to see that title in front of Abhisit's name, or any other educator for that matter, in the media or government websites. But they don't. As that's not done in Thailand, then I won't break tradition.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Buchholz

[Thai at Heart]

It is almost impossible to pull a coup right now. There will be utter chaos. The international community will not be easy on it this time. There is no popular movement on the streets demanding anything. Lots of people are awaiting things form the populist policies and wont take kindly to any extra-parliamentary action that stops these I would guess that PTP know given time some of these things may change, but right now they have all the momentum. They have certainly learnt since Samak days that to sit back and go easy is to invite downfall.

I still think the legislative amnesty is the likely way (after all that is the route the coupmeisters used to amnesty themselves) but that is complicated by the red shirts continually rejecting amnestying anyone who was involved in the April/May stuff in way at all. They are demanding that is investigated and people punished.

In reality the full court press may just be PTP pushing hard while they cement their control over the bureaucracy which right now is still stuffed at the higher levels at least with people promoted by the Dem-BJT axis because they were known and trusted anti-PTPers

"Almost" impossible is the operative phrase. The way I see it, there are certain lines that have been agreed not to be crossed to allow PTP to be back in power, with some kind of planned return for Thaksin probably being part of it.

However, if the case is that not pardoning him is seen to create ANY anti-feeling or protests, I can quite easily see the army coming out . Beyond that, I can see a huge backlash from the vast majority of the population. I also don't believe that the response from international community would be quite as against it as you may believe. The system in Thailand is based around a constitutional monarchy, and any change to it would throw the country into chaos for quite sometime. This system has allowed Thailand to engage with the West and other parts of the world very well for many years, and I am not going to get into a debate of rights and wrongs, but I tell you what, it is a hell of a lot better than any other option.

The very crux of the problem in Thailand has been parliamentary corruption and the confused role of the army for donkeys years. I don't expect it to get much worse or much better under PTP, but if they try to see what people's reaction might be if they paint a bad picture of any pardon and it leads to any protest, I think they may be surprised. There will be only one winner in the eyes of the people, and the fallout for PTP and any protesters would be horrendous.

I tried my best not to overstep any mark writing this.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[Buchholz]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

You disagree with the law. What else is new? The onus is on you to show that the law does not allow for a pardon request to be made. A pardon can be requested, but a pardon does not have to be granted. Have you even read the law? Look at what it says;

Individual Royal Pardon is granted as a matter of routine procedure. Any convicted prisoner or a concerned person wishing to petition his Majesty the King praying for pardon may do so by submitting such petition through official channel. However, whether or not the pardon is granted shall be subject to the King's discretion based on the recommendation submitted by the Minister of Justice. Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice

[/size]

I suggest that you and your friends make an effort and read the law. The request for a pardon is lawful. There is no requirement for there to have been any time in custody served. Read the big paragraph below. If you have a problem with the law, go and lobby to have the law changed.

The pardon may be either in the form of an unconditional release,a commutation or reduction of punishment. This depends on the discretion of HisMajesty the King as stated in Section 221 and 225 of the Constitution (B.E.2540) and Section 259 to 267 of Division 7: Pardon, Commutation and Reductionof Punishment in the Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No. 23), B.E. 2548.Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice.

The reason that the pardon process is being moved along now is that other pardons will most likely be granted on December 5.

You're mistaken in your belief that I disagree with the law. I don't.

I've read the law, including the actual provisions that aren't on the general info webpage for the Corrections Dept. that you quote.

What I was asking of Chalerm, and you too now, is what I wrote in my post.

Has there ever been a situation whereby someone was granted a Royal Pardon under similar circumstances?

.

[SomTumTiger]

Chalerm, Yingluck, Thaksin & the UDD are not stupid.

Don't sell Charlerm short - there is plenty stupid running through his gene pool.

[hammered]

It is almost impossible to pull a coup right now. There will be utter chaos. The international community will not be easy on it this time. There is no popular movement on the streets demanding anything. Lots of people are awaiting things form the populist policies and wont take kindly to any extra-parliamentary action that stops these I would guess that PTP know given time some of these things may change, but right now they have all the momentum. They have certainly learnt since Samak days that to sit back and go easy is to invite downfall.

I still think the legislative amnesty is the likely way (after all that is the route the coupmeisters used to amnesty themselves) but that is complicated by the red shirts continually rejecting amnestying anyone who was involved in the April/May stuff in way at all. They are demanding that is investigated and people punished.

In reality the full court press may just be PTP pushing hard while they cement their control over the bureaucracy which right now is still stuffed at the higher levels at least with people promoted by the Dem-BJT axis because they were known and trusted anti-PTPers

"Almost" impossible is the operative phrase. The way I see it, there are certain lines that have been agreed not to be crossed to allow PTP to be back in power, with some kind of planned return for Thaksin probably being part of it.

However, if the case is that not pardoning him is seen to create ANY anti-feeling or protests, I can quite easily see the army coming out . Beyond that, I can see a huge backlash from the vast majority of the population. I also don't believe that the response from international community would be quite as against it as you may believe. The system in Thailand is based around a constitutional monarchy, and any change to it would throw the country into chaos for quite sometime. This system has allowed Thailand to engage with the West and other parts of the world very well for many years, and I am not going to get into a debate of rights and wrongs, but I tell you what, it is a hell of a lot better than any other option.

The very crux of the problem in Thailand has been parliamentary corruption and the confused role of the army for donkeys years. I don't expect it to get much worse or much better under PTP, but if they try to see what people's reaction might be if they paint a bad picture of any pardon and it leads to any protest, I think they may be surprised. There will be only one winner in the eyes of the people, and the fallout for PTP and any protesters would be horrendous.

I tried my best not to overstep any mark writing this.

I honestly think that legislative amnesty is going to be the route they use, or the technical reset of constitutional change. Although controversial they are safe in that they have been used (by coupmakers) in the past to achieve forgiveness in advance of charge or punishement. The other option is a bit too nuclear. However, maybe to mention it focuses minds of opponents on the other safe options being maybe something that shouldnt be totally excluded, or if you are right maybe as part of a deal that shouldnt be gone back on. One thing I think we can be sure of is that trust between the sides is a little on the low side.

[Soutpeel]

If the title Ajarn was utilized as an official title (the same as police or military titles are), then one would expect to see that title in front of Abhisit's name, or any other educator for that matter, in the media or government websites. But they don't. As that's not done in Thailand, then I won't break tradition.

You want to tell that to the numerous "English" teachers who use this monikor to try and give the impression they are important....

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted for speculating.