Help On Understanding The Brit Education System?

[aeolion]

In the States, kids do about six years of elementary school, two years of middle school, and four years of high school. They can then get an associate's degree at a two-year college or a bachelor's degree at a four-year college/university. The kid send their grades to colleges, and the only national exam in this whole process is the SAT, which for some good universities is not even required.

The complexity of the British education system, on the other hand, is demonstrated by the array of acronyms it has spawned. No matter the Website, I end up having to click on some collection of letters, and this leads to a page with more acronyms, a process which, like the universe of the Big Bang theory, is ever expanding.

Whenever I try putting it all together into a coherent whole, I always seem to get only 90% there. I even looked in the Simplified English section of Wikipedia, assuming the shortcoming was mine alone, but there were no entries.

Can anyone explain the British system in a paragraph or two, remembering that I really don't know what a UK qualifying exam qualifies you for. I of course figured out that A-levels are harder, and that GCSE courses are easier, but how do you put them together to graduate? Do bright kids take only A-levels? Do A-levels require the same time to complete as non-A-levels, which makes sense if only bright kids take them.

Do school course-grades count? Do they even have them? Or is the qualifying exam score the only thing people look at. Whoever those people might be.

Oh yeah, in the States you finish college, you get a diploma. It seems that in British English, "diploma" can mean something different.

aeolion

[thaicbr]

well i just googled 'British education system' and got

http://en.wikipedia....tion_in_England

I think it explains it well...

all students take GCSE's in key stage 4 and the high school kids take A-levels. you need A-levels to get into University.

Oh and i forgot to mention...it's British not Brit. You lazy Yank.

Edited September 8, 2011 by thaicbr

[cmsally]

Many UK schools now also have the IB. From a couple of articles I read it doesn't seem to have been very successful in getting uni places this year.

[aeolion]

well i just googled 'British education system' and got

http://en.wikipedia....tion_in_England

I think it explains it well...

all students take GCSE's in key stage 4 and the high school kids take A-levels. you need A-levels to get into University.

Oh and i forgot to mention...it's British not Brit. You lazy Yank.

Thanks for the link. And yeah, in my laziness I forgot my history. Paul Revere made his 1776 midnight ride yelling, "The British are coming, the British are coming!" Somehow "The Brits are coming!" sounds flat.

Edited September 8, 2011 by aeolion

[aeolion]

Many UK schools now also have the IB. From a couple of articles I read it doesn't seem to have been very successful in getting uni places this year.

We can now add "IB" to the list of British acronyms I haven't the foggiest as to their meaning.

But hey, I've mastered things like "colour" and "torch" for "flashlight." Please be patient. Just give me some time, I'll learn more.

aeolion

Edited September 8, 2011 by aeolion

[F1fanatic]

I've been out of the system for a few years, but assume nothing much has changed.

Children generally attend Middle School from 11 - 12, and Upper School from 13 to 16. In their last year at Upper School they take GCSEs in a number of subjects.

They then move into the 6th Form (or 6th Form College) where after 2 years they take A Levels in (generally) 3-4 subjects.

After that, they move into a College or University to gain a degree.

Hope this helps.

[rocketmanbkk]

To the OP, if you can't fugure it out, which to be honest is pretty simple then I wopuld recommend you go back into yoru education system for a while longer.

In UK, start school at 4/5 yo, go to a comp/secandary or grammar at 11- 18, leave at 16 if you want, stay at school until 18 if you want A levels, 18+ go to Uni if you want.

Whats difficult about that? yes, there are variations according to where you live but still not hard to figure out!

well i just googled 'British education system' and got

http://en.wikipedia....tion_in_England

I think it explains it well...

all students take GCSE's in key stage 4 and the high school kids take A-levels. you need A-levels to get into University.

Oh and i forgot to mention...it's British not Brit. You lazy Yank.

[PattayaParent]

At age 16 Brit kids do their GCSE 'O' (Ordinary) levels (at least the smarter ones, I'm simplifying it a bit).

If you get 5 'O' Levels then you can go on to the sixth form and do GCSE 'A' (Advanced) levels.

You need A levels (usually a minimum of 3) to get into university where you do 3 or 4 years to get a Bachelors degree (some degrees longer).

A diploma in UK is a HND (Higher National Diploma) which can be taken at an Institute of Higher Education if you don't get the A levels to gain entry to university. This HND will allow you entry to university with exemption from the 1st year of study depending on the course you choose.

Course work generally doesn't count in O levels or A levels, they are straight academic exams.

An IB is an International Baccleaureat (spl) which is gradually replacing the A levels and is common in International Schools overseas. It has an element of social studies in it to make the kids better 'all round people' rather than just academic study.

Edited September 8, 2011 by PattayaParent

[changraider]

Dear Aeolian, I am a product of British education at its finest ;-) and I also find the current 'system' totally bewildering thanks to the various innovations of governments trying to leave the mark. However, the basic process under the garbage terminology remains the same:

age 5-11 primary school

age 11 - 16 secondary school

these two stages are mandatory by law

17-18 extended secondary for those who have the gifts and application to attend university

bachelor's degree 3 years usually if full-time

master's degree often 1 year if full-time

PhD sometimes until you retire ;-)

I read somewhere that the average 16 year old school leaver cannot read a fire warning, and their numeracy skills are even more challenged.

Sometimes for knowitalls I lend them a novel by that hallowed American author Henry James, that usually shuts them up good and proper.

Apologies for any typos, I'm not illiterate, it's this darned mobile phone interface :-)

[coolhandjoe]

The British education system is the finest in the world with most overseas students wishing to study here.

-5 yrs pre-school

5-11 years primary school

11-18yrs High school

18+ optional college/university

However the university places are getting harder to aquire with the over demand due to high unemployment. This demand will reduce due to the goverments policy on university fees, costing students on average £9000 pa min 3 years.

As always some schools are better than others.

[changraider]

Forgot to mention - many of the products of our Great British educational system aspire to the diction of American prisons - but naturally they cannot master it. I'm not sure who to blame for this - the Limeys or the Yanks.

[Boater]

you can also do GNVQ's in the UK as well as AS Levels

[Moonrakers]

At age 16 Brit kids do their GCSE 'O' (Ordinary) levels (at least the smarter ones, I'm simplifying it a bit).

If you get 5 'O' Levels then you can go on to the sixth form and do GCSE 'A' (Advanced) levels.

You need A levels (usually a minimum of 3) to get into university where you do 3 or 4 years to get a Bachelors degree (some degrees longer).

You're confusing GCSEs with CSEs. 'O'levels' were abolished and replaced with GCSEs

There is no such a thing as GCSE 'O' levels. It is now GCSEs and if you do well o your GCSEs you get to take A levels or As levels (half an A level course)

Edited September 8, 2011 by Moonrakers

[F1fanatic]

Dear Aeolian, I am a product of British education at its finest ;-) and I also find the current 'system' totally bewildering thanks to the various innovations of governments trying to leave the mark. However, the basic process under the garbage terminology remains the same:

age 5-11 primary school

age 11 - 16 secondary school

these two stages are mandatory by law

17-18 extended secondary for those who have the gifts and application to attend university

bachelor's degree 3 years usually if full-time

master's degree often 1 year if full-time

PhD sometimes until you retire ;-)

I read somewhere that the average 16 year old school leaver cannot read a fire warning, and their numeracy skills are even more challenged.

Sometimes for knowitalls I lend them a novel by that hallowed American author Henry James, that usually shuts them up good and proper.

Apologies for any typos, I'm not illiterate, it's this darned mobile phone interface :-)

Actually no. Pretty much any idiot could get into a college - albeit not those colleges/universities with a good reputation.

[roamer]

Course work generally doesn't count in O levels or A levels, they are straight academic exams.

Not so these days, course work can account for around 50% of the mark.

My Thai step daughter has just started Year 12 today (A Level)having got good GCSE's she is going on to study Biology, Chemistry & Physics with aspirations of becoming a Vet. Contrary to what some have asserted getting good grades in the more academic subjects requires hard work.

[Lite Beer]

Moved to Family Forum where it has some relevance.

[Moonrakers]

Course work generally doesn't count in O levels or A levels, they are straight academic exams.

Not so these days, course work can account for around 50% of the mark.

My Thai step daughter has just started Year 12 today (A Level)having got good GCSE's she is going on to study Biology, Chemistry & Physics with aspirations of becoming a Vet. Contrary to what some have asserted getting good grades in the more academic subjects requires hard work.

When it came to me choosing my subjects, I wanted to choose IT.

I wasn't allowed to however because they deemed that I was too academically qualified and should do something else, IT was reserved for the dummies. Here I am now just getting by where a school friend of mine, who was in the 'dummies' IT class is a self made millionaire with his own IT and networking company.

Hey ho

[aeolion]

Dear Aeolian, I am a product of British education at its finest ;-) and I also find the current 'system' totally bewildering thanks to the various innovations of governments trying to leave the mark. However, the basic process under the garbage terminology remains the same:

age 5-11 primary school

age 11 - 16 secondary school

these two stages are mandatory by law

17-18 extended secondary for those who have the gifts and application to attend university

bachelor's degree 3 years usually if full-time

master's degree often 1 year if full-time

PhD sometimes until you retire ;-)

I read somewhere that the average 16 year old school leaver cannot read a fire warning, and their numeracy skills are even more challenged.

Sometimes for knowitalls I lend them a novel by that hallowed American author Henry James, that usually shuts them up good and proper.

Apologies for any typos, I'm not illiterate, it's this darned mobile phone interface :-)

Thanks for the help.

Sometimes I suspect I am just some guy bitching about the younger generation, then I remind myself that the decline has been documented all along the way. I have two recently-published college math books, trig and algebra, each which begins with Chapter 0, with the note that this chapter is all about the "prerequisites." One poor author wrote that years ago, it was assumed that all students arrived the first day prepared for the course. He concluded that this assumption was no longer warranted. Hence Chapter 0, which "must not be neglected by the instructor."

[aeolion]

At age 16 Brit kids do their GCSE 'O' (Ordinary) levels (at least the smarter ones, I'm simplifying it a bit).

If you get 5 'O' Levels then you can go on to the sixth form and do GCSE 'A' (Advanced) levels.

You need A levels (usually a minimum of 3) to get into university where you do 3 or 4 years to get a Bachelors degree (some degrees longer).

A diploma in UK is a HND (Higher National Diploma) which can be taken at an Institute of Higher Education if you don't get the A levels to gain entry to university. This HND will allow you entry to university with exemption from the 1st year of study depending on the course you choose.

Course work generally doesn't count in O levels or A levels, they are straight academic exams.

An IB is an International Baccleaureat (spl) which is gradually replacing the A levels and is common in International Schools overseas. It has an element of social studies in it to make the kids better 'all round people' rather than just academic study.

You done good, my good man. Thanks. Especially for the simplification.

[aeolion]

Course work generally doesn't count in O levels or A levels, they are straight academic exams.

Not so these days, course work can account for around 50% of the mark.

My Thai step daughter has just started Year 12 today (A Level)having got good GCSE's she is going on to study Biology, Chemistry & Physics with aspirations of becoming a Vet. Contrary to what some have asserted getting good grades in the more academic subjects requires hard work.

I slowly put together these facts about NEC (non-profit provider of British distance high school courses) that students have two years to finish a distance version of GCSEs, IGCSEs, and that they can take as many courses as they want. I, too, am interested in biology, physics, and chemistry for my wife, but that would be later, in rhe A-levels. Also math. If there is anything an ambitious student can do to keep the doors open, it is keep going in math. Even if you are in love with English poetry. Weak math has limited people's careers more than they imagine.

Now, a practical question that you might have some insight into: How many IGSCE courses should a woman who is reasonably intelligent and heavy on the work ethic sign up for, given that she will still be working a couple of hours a day on her English? There is a math class that teaches percents, decimals, and fractions, and a more rigorous one. There is really not a lot of choice. Would biology, chemistry, physics and higher math plus geography be OK? That is five courses, but she would have two years to complete them if she gets in a bind.

I simply have no idea how difficult the material is.

Thanks, aeolion

[PattayaParent]

At age 16 Brit kids do their GCSE 'O' (Ordinary) levels (at least the smarter ones, I'm simplifying it a bit).

If you get 5 'O' Levels then you can go on to the sixth form and do GCSE 'A' (Advanced) levels.

You need A levels (usually a minimum of 3) to get into university where you do 3 or 4 years to get a Bachelors degree (some degrees longer).

You're confusing GCSEs with CSEs. 'O'levels' were abolished and replaced with GCSEs

There is no such a thing as GCSE 'O' levels. It is now GCSEs and if you do well o your GCSEs you get to take A levels or As levels (half an A level course)

When I did O levels some 36 years ago they were called GCSEs.

CSEs (Certificate of Secondary Education) were for kids who were not smart enough to do the GCSE although a Grade 1 CSE acheivement was considered equivalent to a GCSE pass. As I said, I simplified the explanation for the OP.

[ludditeman]

Course work generally doesn't count in O levels or A levels, they are straight academic exams.

Not so these days, course work can account for around 50% of the mark.

My Thai step daughter has just started Year 12 today (A Level)having got good GCSE's she is going on to study Biology, Chemistry & Physics with aspirations of becoming a Vet. Contrary to what some have asserted getting good grades in the more academic subjects requires hard work.

I slowly put together these facts about NEC (non-profit provider of British distance high school courses) that students have two years to finish a distance version of GCSEs, IGCSEs, and that they can take as many courses as they want. I, too, am interested in biology, physics, and chemistry for my wife, but that would be later, in rhe A-levels. Also math. If there is anything an ambitious student can do to keep the doors open, it is keep going in math. Even if you are in love with English poetry. Weak math has limited people's careers more than they imagine.

Now, a practical question that you might have some insight into: How many IGSCE courses should a woman who is reasonably intelligent and heavy on the work ethic sign up for, given that she will still be working a couple of hours a day on her English? There is a math class that teaches percents, decimals, and fractions, and a more rigorous one. There is really not a lot of choice. Would biology, chemistry, physics and higher math plus geography be OK? That is five courses, but she would have two years to complete them if she gets in a bind.

I simply have no idea how difficult the material is.

Thanks, aeolion

Most children of reasonable ability will be taking 8 GCSE subjects, 10 is not unusual (5 would mark you as low ability)

After GCSE you choose 4 or 5 AS level subjects for 1 year (3 subjects would be chosen by the very lowest ability students)

After the AS exams you then choose 3 of those subjects for A level exam in the second year.

Real high fliers will choose to take 4 A level subjects in that final school year.

It is more important to gain high grades if you are wanting entry to a desirable university.

(many students avoid Maths as a subject as it is relatively hard to attain a high grade, and entry to university is often seen as more important than risking rejection or failure)

If you want to continue at University to become a Vet or Doctor you must realistically do much more connected activities outside of the formal education.

For example,

someone wishing to become a Vet should be doing volunteer work at an animal shelter from age 16+

someone wishing to become a doctor should learn to play an instrument at exam level and do volunteer work at an old persons home from 16+

(easier if one of their parents is a vet or doctor)

School in the UK

Pre-school 3-5 (voluntary)

Primary school 5-11 (compulsory)

(note: some areas divide primary into different lower and upper schools, 5-8 and 9-11)

Comprehensive school 11-16 (compulsory) (GCSE exams at age 16)

Sixth form year 1 17 (AS levels and alternative development) (voluntary)

Sixth form year 2 18 (A levels and alternative development) (voluntary)

How hard are GCSEs?

Hard to answer because it depends on the ability of the student, I consider them trivial.

And you must remember that unlike Thailand, you can fail.

@pattayaparent

Your information is 30 years out of date. Things change a lot in that time.

Sorry but the information you posted varies between completely wrong and useless.

@roamer

Your daughter should be starting at least 4 AS levels if she aspires to become a vet in the UK

She should also be doing volunteer work with animals, animal rescue, helping a vet, animal sanctuary. Places at University in the UK to become a vet are extremely competitive. You need specialist advice on securing a place for her and how to do it now, not in 1 or 2 years time. Her teachers will also need to know her desired occupation and how to 'massage' her yearly reports. She will need high predicted A level results, and the teachers need to know they must predict high grades. (UK university entrance interviews are often granted on the PREDICTED grades, teachers tend to predict low in the state system BUT you can insist they predict HIGH.)

Edited September 9, 2011 by ludditeman

[PattayaParent]

^the only thing that seems to have changed is the introduction of the split A level, and that from 2013 secondary education will be compulsory to age 18.

[ludditeman]

@roamer

If I may also be bold enough to offer my opinion on her subject choice

Biology essential

Chemistry useful

Physics counter-productive

The medical person (doctor, pharmacist, dentist, veterinary) should be well rounded in their subject choice demonstrating abilities as a 'complete' individual, she should have a subject like psychology, English literature, geography or history to demonstrate this, at least at the AS level.

What advice did you seek on your daughters subject choice?

Did the person giving the advice have any experience in securing a University place for this career choice?

[ludditeman]

^the only thing that seems to have changed is the introduction of the split A level, and that from 2013 secondary education will be compulsory to age 18.

OK you want me to be more constructive in my criticism of your post.

1) I don't believe anyone with 5 GCSE passes would be accepted onto a full A level course, you need 8-10 GCSE passes.

2) HND/HNC are outdated and likely to be accepted only at lower universities and only then with mature students. All the 'institutes of higher education' provide degrees these days.

3) Cousework can be a major part of many GCSEs

Edited September 9, 2011 by ludditeman

[PattayaParent]

Entry requirements

In most cases, you need at least five GCSEs at grades A*-C. Sometimes, you need a grade B or above at GCSE in a particular subject to take it at AS or A level.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/QualificationsExplained/DG_10039018

[aeolion]

Entry requirements

In most cases, you need at least five GCSEs at grades A*-C. Sometimes, you need a grade B or above at GCSE in a particular subject to take it at AS or A level.

http://www.direct.go...ned/DG_10039018

Nice Website. And thanks for all your other help along the way.

aeolion