Bangkok Bank Pathetic

[mads]

one of the guys on here works there, he might read your post and help you

If anybody is having problems with our products or services, please contact me via PM or Daveroc.

He is actually the best person to PM as he is assigned to the Expat community whereas I am IT and Strategy and I travel a fair bit. So please contact Dave and he can even arrange an appointment at your choice of branch for people who want to open an account. Or he can help to sort out problems like this person complained about.

I must say his complaint is a new one. Our IVRs (VRUs) answer millions of calls each month and have been serving both Thai and English languages for years. It would be good if he could contact Dave to give the specifics. Thanks

And an FYI, if you want to setup Internet Banking you can do so from any Bangkok Bank ATM. We have more than 7,000 of them.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/online%20banking/for%20personal/ibanking/how%20to%20apply/pages/default.aspx

Ian

If you are the IT guy maybe you can tell me why your internet banking only supports IE browsers and not Firefox ? I've seen it with so many Thai websites, they are only coded for one browser IE, the others does not exist in Thailand apparently....

Another thing that annoys me is why it's not possible to copy/paste, so either I have to remember my bank id and username (username not one I have chosen) in my head or I have to have the data I need in a word doc and minimize the IE window and the word doc

so I can see both at the same time....incredibly annoying.

Here are the stats for browser usage :

2011 August

Firefox 40.6 %

Internet Explorer 22.4 %

Chrome 30.3 %

Safari 3.8 %

Opera 2.3 %

According to these numbers it does not make a lot of sense to make internet banking only support IE.

DTAC you can pay your bills online but when you have to type in your credit card information is not done through https: but http:

this I find very strange as well.

Edited September 11, 2011 by mads

[Tywais]

If you are the IT guy maybe you can tell me why your internet banking only supports IE browsers and not Firefox ?

I guess you don't actually use their site or confusing it with another Banking company? They announced and changed for FF support 2 or 3 years ago. I only use FF for them and open iBanking 2-3 times a month. And no, I don't use the FF IE plugin anymore.

I do agree about the copy/paste but suspect it is a security feature.

[flying]

Same here FF has worked well for years

[JimGant]

Just out of interest - why get a secured credit card (which requires at least the limit in cash deposit before use I believe) when Be1st gives a Visa debit card which does exactly the same?

....but with more risk, and inconvenience, since fraud can deplete your entire account. Stateside debit cards are pretty good in replenishing your bank account -- if an empty account for two weeks is no burden. But in Thailand...? Have read several horror stories on this forum about the difficulty of getting your money back after debit card fraud.

Credit cards, of course, protect against your cash disappearing.

Right now, I use a Stateside credit card, and with its cashback and fee structure, it is superior to any Thai credit card I could get -- which would be funded by ACH or SWIFT transfers, which have fees at both ends. I do use my Be1st ATM/Debit card for pin mode ATM transactions (as back-up to my Schwab ATM card). But the debit part -- which is swipe and sign -- is effectively not available, as I set the daily limit to zero.

which requires at least the limit in cash deposit before use I believe

Which is the same as if it were a debit card, in which you spend no more than what's in your bank account. But, you get the added security of it being a credit card.

[mads]

If you are the IT guy maybe you can tell me why your internet banking only supports IE browsers and not Firefox ?

I guess you don't actually use their site or confusing it with another Banking company? They announced and changed for FF support 2 or 3 years ago. I only use FF for them and open iBanking 2-3 times a month. And no, I don't use the FF IE plugin anymore.

I do agree about the copy/paste but suspect it is a security feature.

Hmm maybe we are talking different sites. I was referring to https://bizibanking.bangkokbank.com/ which show this error when accessed with Firefox.

In order to access to BIZ iBanking, please use the supported browsers below (Beta products are not supported).

Microsoft Internet Explorer version 6, 7, 8 or above

(www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer)

To help improve online banking security, please use the licensed and up-to-date operating system software and anti-virus application. Do not use internet cafes or insecure public computers.

[flying]

Hmm maybe we are talking different sites. I was referring to https://bizibanking.bangkokbank.com/ which show this error when accessed with Firefox.

I dont know about Tywais but I use Bualuang Banking not Biz Ibanking

https://ibanking.bangkokbank.com/SignOn.aspx

Seems bizbanking is differently supported than Bualuang Banking?

Edited September 12, 2011 by flying

[Tywais]

Hmm maybe we are talking different sites. I was referring to https://bizibanking.bangkokbank.com/ which show this error when accessed with Firefox.

Yes, different banking access. I was referring to iBanking and was not aware of Biz Banking. FF has worked fine for iBanking but just saw an odd thing when running their browser compatibility test under FF and it fails under 128 bit SSL. However that is under FF 3.6 - will have to test it at home where I have FF 6.0

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Online%20Banking/For%20Personal/iBanking/New%20Users/Pages/Browser%20Test.aspx

[Daveroc]

An update for the Biz IBanking product is planned for release this month which will see access available via FF.

[ianguygil]

I'll respond to most of this tomorrow when I have time as I'm out in meetings today. If you want me to address specific numbers like browser stats please refer to the source as your numbers differ to ours greatly

Also if you want to get my attention, please PM not just post

Thanks. Ian

[ianguygil]

An update for the Biz IBanking product is planned for release this month which will see access available via FF.

Wow. Simultaneous posts :-D

[mads]

I'll respond to most of this tomorrow when I have time as I'm out in meetings today. If you want me to address specific numbers like browser stats please refer to the source as your numbers differ to ours greatly

Also if you want to get my attention, please PM not just post

Thanks. Ian

Sure I can provide a link : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

But I can't see why the stats matter. Firefox is one of the most used browsers and not supporting FF should be on top of big company's list imo.

[lopburi3]

your numbers differ to ours greatly

Of course I suspect it would not be very high in the rankings if your product does not support it. If you are speaking about Thailand in general rather than your site can believe the figures for IE are much higher here than in many other places; often due to the need for that browser to access sites or get decent display.

But Times They Are A-Changin'

[Pib]

I'll respond to most of this tomorrow when I have time as I'm out in meetings today. If you want me to address specific numbers like browser stats please refer to the source as your numbers differ to ours greatly

Also if you want to get my attention, please PM not just post

Thanks. Ian

Sure I can provide a link : http://www.w3schools...wsers_stats.asp

But I can't see why the stats matter. Firefox is one of the most used browsers and not supporting FF should be on top of big company's list imo.

Here's another link for browser stats Aug 10 - Aug 11, which shows quite different stats by browser: Link

It shows stats worldwide and by country....by far according to this site, IE is the most used browser in Thailand (and in the world).

Edited September 12, 2011 by Pib

[harrry]

http://netfuture.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/internet-usage-in-thailand-browser-os-and-desktop/

gives a diferent story again

[Tywais]

http://netfuture.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/internet-usage-in-thailand-browser-os-and-desktop/

gives a diferent story again

Not really, that is dated 2009.

[ianguygil]

I'll respond to most of this tomorrow when I have time as I'm out in meetings today. If you want me to address specific numbers like browser stats please refer to the source as your numbers differ to ours greatly

Also if you want to get my attention, please PM not just post

Thanks. Ian

Sure I can provide a link : http://www.w3schools...wsers_stats.asp

But I can't see why the stats matter. Firefox is one of the most used browsers and not supporting FF should be on top of big company's list imo.

OK,.here we go

The reason I asked about the source of those statistics is firstly that you posted it directing it at us, and that they are so hugely different from our own experience with the BangkokBank.Com public website which does not block browsers at all. So I wanted to see the scope and source of these numbers. From the website it is clear that the statistics are from users accessing their site. And as they say on the site that their users tend to be people interested in experimenting with technologies and most normal users keep the browser which ships with their computer (PC). This site is also it appears in America and their customers probably originate mainly from that area. So this is in no way representative of what we see where our customers are normal people, mainly in Thailand, wanting to use a modern direct banking channel.

The other reason I asked is to do with the terms of use of the site wich state that all data on their site is copyrighted and can not be used without their written consent. So I am definitely not posting it back in this response even though I may refer to it

This site http://truehits.net/monthly/ gives a picture of the traffic in Thailand which is much closer to our real world experience with much more than 60% of customers still using IE (IE9 IE8 IE7).

As for our support for Browsers, I have answered this several times before on Thaivisa. We are absolutely committed to supporting the platforms, devices, browsers etc. used by our customers. Back in "the day" when we first launched iBanking the market share was dramatically different, with IE having 97%+ of the market in Thailand. Also, many of the standards which now exist were not yet in place. So we went with the most popular package in the world which is also used by huge banks like JP Morgan which was at the time based on Active Server Pages. And we went with IE only. That made sense at the time, and we blocked other browsers that we had not "certified" with each release of the product. Some other banks chose not to block uncertified browsers (and still do so), in which case you may find your transaction fails in the middle of processing.

As the market has progressed we have expanded to more browsers for iBanking the consumer product. At this time we support IE, Firefox (later this month) and Safari. Please note that as a commercial consideration, each time we add a Browser we need to test ALL browser/OS combinations. So we have to test IE7 on XP, VISTA and WIN-7, plus IE8 on....... We also have to test different versions of Safari on different versions of MAC OS/X. And now we introduce the Mobile versions into the mix (an iPad is actually an iPhone not a MAC tablet so it is Mobile Safari which is not the same as Safari). So this full regression test for each combination takes time and resources, even though we have all the usual tools of test automation etc.

Biz has honestly lagged the Consumer product in terms of Browser support for a couple of reasons. Firstly we were more focused on new functionality, all of which was written to support multiple browsers so there was less to retrofit. Secondly the demand was not as strong from the customer base as must companies still use IE because they can lock it down via AD. But in the last year or so there has been clear demand so we have worked on it (particularly from European customers). So as Daveroc says we have a new release this month which is fully Firefox certified and we hope our customers will find this to be convenient.

I hope this addresses your questions. PM me if you have a specific issue about your account. Thank you.

Ian

Edited September 12, 2011 by ianguygil

[mads]

Well I'm happy to hear that. Could you do away with that non copy/paste feature as well ?

[harrry]

Thanks for the response Ian. Interesting, The swing to Chrome looks as if you you may have to start supporting this as the market share of Firefox seems to be dropping.

Nice to have someone who can respond despite the somewhat agessive an OT nature of some responses.

[ianguygil]

Thanks for the response Ian. Interesting, The swing to Chrome looks as if you you may have to start supporting this as the market share of Firefox seems to be dropping.

Nice to have someone who can respond despite the somewhat agessive an OT nature of some responses.

Absolutely. Chrome is on the radar.

All this does not cover the Mobile iBanking product which has to cover a huge range of browsers and form types.

Sigh, the world use to be so easy..:jap:

[ianguygil]

Well I'm happy to hear that. Could you do away with that non copy/paste feature as well ?

We have no plan to allow cut and paste at login. Preventing cut and paste is an established best practice. If we allow customers to paste their password the implication is that we approve of them storing it somewhere, and we absolutely do not agree to this. Customers should never write their password down. Period. Be that electronically or hardcopy.

You are correct that we do not allow customers to change their Company ID with Biz at this time. With iBanking for consumers you can change the Bank assigned ID to one of your choice.

So, sorry, but for very good reasons we have no intention of allowing cut and paste at logon.

For all those who are interested, here is another site which can provide browser statistics by country and time. This was given to me by the executive on my staff who actually manages iBanking (Biz and Consumer). Great guy.

http://gs.statcounter.com

Right now I am done with this thread and I don't plan to check back again. If you want to get my attention please PM me. Or even better please contact Daveroc who is responsible for Expat matters. Thanks

Edited September 13, 2011 by ianguygil

[harrry]

Thanks for the response Ian. Interesting, The swing to Chrome looks as if you you may have to start supporting this as the market share of Firefox seems to be dropping.

Nice to have someone who can respond despite the somewhat agessive an OT nature of some responses.

Absolutely. Chrome is on the radar.

All this does not cover the Mobile iBanking product which has to cover a huge range of browsers and form types.

Sigh, the world use to be so easy..:jap:

Your lucky I am retired or I may start about accessibility for disabled.......w3c standards

[bifftastic]

Thanks for the response Ian. Interesting, The swing to Chrome looks as if you you may have to start supporting this as the market share of Firefox seems to be dropping.

Nice to have someone who can respond despite the somewhat agessive an OT nature of some responses.

I don't use the 'Biz' site, just bualuang ibanking and I use Chrome with no problems.

[letitbe]

Anyone ever tried to set up internet banking with them , what a nightmare and when you telephone their customer service and "press 2 for English" its still in Thai

Pathetic Bank

WFT this is Thailand try getting something done in USA or UK in Thai. Ive lived here over 15 years and although you have to put up with Thai lethargy have had fantastic service from Bangkok Bank in BKK and other places

[Jebhead]

Anyone ever tried to set up internet banking with them , what a nightmare and when you telephone their customer service and "press 2 for English" its still in Thai

Pathetic Bank

WFT this is Thailand try getting something done in USA or UK in Thai. Ive lived here over 15 years and although you have to put up with Thai lethargy have had fantastic service from Bangkok Bank in BKK and other places

Yes, i have over the years had accounts in Phuket / Phitsanoluk / Pattya, never had any problems with them, online banking is fine once set up....

JH

[merlen10002]

I bank with KasikornBank,( the farmers bank ) great bank, great service, they are really good asked about a credit card and can get one but Farang must have 500,000 THB in a fix deposit with the bank, can understand this lot of Farangs would run up a lot on a credit card and hit the toe back to Farang land, have internet banking with Kasikorn bank and it was very easy and works well, they are very good with help on the phone.

[theoldgit]

asked about a credit card and can get one but Farang must have 500,000 THB in a fix deposit with the bank, can understand this lot of Farangs would run up a lot on a credit card and hit the toe back to Farang land,

Whilst I can understand the need for caution on their part, I don't understand that an ex-pat, who may have been living here for many years with millions of baht passing through their account and may have millions more tied up in property, is considered a flight risk so needs to put half a million on deposit to obtain a credit card that enables them to borrow their own money, whilst a foreigner with a work permit, who may be earning little more that the Thai minimum wage, might get a credit card pretty easily. I would have thought that a person in this group is more likely to default and abscond than a person with substantial assets.

But hey, I'm no expert.

[Guest]

First I must say that I'm really happy when the iBiz will start supporting other browsers. Welcome to this millennium!

Currently I have to start vmware with xp on it to be able to use the iBiz banking with linux. This was simply because the date forms supported only some proprietary IE function.

What comes to the stat counters, those are not fully reliable. More advanced users, who use more advanced browsers are likely to use ad-blockers and other functions which can also block the information to the statistics collectors. Still the best way to get the real information is from the webserver logfiles.

[ianguygil]

First I must say that I'm really happy when the iBiz will start supporting other browsers. Welcome to this millennium!

Currently I have to start vmware with xp on it to be able to use the iBiz banking with linux. This was simply because the date forms supported only some proprietary IE function.

What comes to the stat counters, those are not fully reliable. More advanced users, who use more advanced browsers are likely to use ad-blockers and other functions which can also block the information to the statistics collectors. Still the best way to get the real information is from the webserver logfiles.

No plans to support Linux. It is too small a percentage of the PCs we see to justify the testing cycle. We do support MAC OS/X which is actually FREE BSD with lipstick on, but not Linux. So you will still need to fire up XP or WIN/7 as a guest under Red Hat, Suse or whatever you run.

The figures I referred to from BangkokBank.Com are from the Webserver logs on the Public Website. Linux is less than 1%.

[Guest]

No plans to support Linux. It is too small a percentage of the PCs we see to justify the testing cycle. We do support MAC OS/X which is actually FREE BSD with lipstick on, but not Linux. So you will still need to fire up XP or WIN/7 as a guest under Red Hat, Suse or whatever you run.

The figures I referred to from BangkokBank.Com are from the Webserver logs on the Public Website. Linux is less than 1%.

The percentage is low also for the reason that the services can not be used with Linux

I changed my business account from Ayutthaya bank to iBiz because on their system it was really difficult to make payments.

IBiz is pretty ok, just fix the restrictions.

You don't need to do extensive testing with linux, just don't make it hard for linux users to use the service. You don't need to advertise that the service works with linux. Do not put checks what is the OS or browser behind the http requests, if it works, that's ok. If the service works with Windows or Mac Firefox, it's likely to work with Linux firefox as well.

Otherwise we need to change the browser headers, which is always annoying thing to do.

Previously I could login to iBiz with linux FF and do basic things. Only thing that was not working was selecting date for the money transfer. This is likely to be fixed on your new version anyway.

If you need to explain these to your non-technical bosses, you can also refer that there are plenty of mini laptops which are running linux.

[ianguygil]

No plans to support Linux. It is too small a percentage of the PCs we see to justify the testing cycle. We do support MAC OS/X which is actually FREE BSD with lipstick on, but not Linux. So you will still need to fire up XP or WIN/7 as a guest under Red Hat, Suse or whatever you run.

The figures I referred to from BangkokBank.Com are from the Webserver logs on the Public Website. Linux is less than 1%.

The percentage is low also for the reason that the services can not be used with Linux

I changed my business account from Ayutthaya bank to iBiz because on their system it was really difficult to make payments.

IBiz is pretty ok, just fix the restrictions.

You don't need to do extensive testing with linux, just don't make it hard for linux users to use the service. You don't need to advertise that the service works with linux. Do not put checks what is the OS or browser behind the http requests, if it works, that's ok. If the service works with Windows or Mac Firefox, it's likely to work with Linux firefox as well.

Otherwise we need to change the browser headers, which is always annoying thing to do.

Previously I could login to iBiz with linux FF and do basic things. Only thing that was not working was selecting date for the money transfer. This is likely to be fixed on your new version anyway.

If you need to explain these to your non-technical bosses, you can also refer that there are plenty of mini laptops which are running linux.

I will answer all this on Monday as today I am accessing from my BB. But I do need to point out again that the statistics I quote are from BangkokBank.Com which is open, non autheticated and a high percentage of the customers do not have accounts with is. So they don't use our online transaction services. So this is absolulte relevant data

i