Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[Jingthing]

It's interesting to note that Prince Harry, third in line to the British throne, attended a private Fancy Dress Party wearing Nazi uniform not too long ago. However, his actions show that ignorance and insensitivity can occur at a much higher level than a Catholic school in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

It might be "interesting" if it hadn't already been mentioned like ten times already! Anyway, totally different situations. That was a costume party, this was an officially sanctioned event at a CATHOLIC school.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[MaxYakov]

FWIW, I asked my gf if she knew Hitler and what he did. She said of course, he killed many jews. She told me she learned about WWI, WWII, holaucost, the pacific war, russian front, etc. at her high school in Korat.

When I showed her the pictures of the school costume party she told me "they are quite stupid in this school".

My son married a gal from Korat who had a degree in chemistry with pages of documented course work. She'll be getting her US equivalent at UC Davis, CA. Maybe someone should investigate the Korat school system and find out what's out of whack there? I don't believe she feels the slightest urge to return to Thailand.

[Kananga]

FWIW, I asked my gf if she knew Hitler and what he did. She said of course, he killed many jews. She told me she learned about WWI, WWII, holaucost, the pacific war, russian front, etc. at her high school in Korat.

When I showed her the pictures of the school costume party she told me "they are quite stupid in this school".

I agree. More for the teachers who didn't know what the fuss was all about.

I am glad my father put me up to reading world history.

Perhaps the nuns drew their divine inspiration from THIS

[WarpSpeed]

Geeez! If that's the best English they can provide that is just as distressing ..

But gives an interesting insight into why English usage is so bad in Thailand, if this is what is coming out of a school director imagine what is being taught...

But is this really from the director?

Probably typed out by one of the 18 year old Thai students.

That excuses it then, more poor decisions by the director letting an 18 year old student with poor English language grammar skills compose her apology letter to the public.. When I say "poor" I'm being polite..

It's like one drunk handing another drunk the keys and telling him to drive them both home because he had 2 less drinks then the other one. Buuuuut yet they're both still DRUNK!

[sbk]

Geeez! If that's the best English they can provide that is just as distressing ..

But gives an interesting insight into why English usage is so bad in Thailand, if this is what is coming out of a school director imagine what is being taught...

But is this really from the director?

Probably typed out by one of the 18 year old Thai students.

That excuses it then, more poor decisions by the director letting an 18 year old student with poor English language grammar skills compose her apology letter to the public.. When I say "poor" I'm being polite..

It's like one drunk handing another drunk the keys and telling him to drive them both home because he had 2 less drinks then the other one. Buuuuut yet they're both still DRUNK!

Amazing, from a simple off the cuff suggestion you come up with this assumption.

[WarpSpeed]

But gives an interesting insight into why English usage is so bad in Thailand, if this is what is coming out of a school director imagine what is being taught...

But is this really from the director?

Probably typed out by one of the 18 year old Thai students.

That excuses it then, more poor decisions by the director letting an 18 year old student with poor English language grammar skills compose her apology letter to the public.. When I say "poor" I'm being polite..

It's like one drunk handing another drunk the keys and telling him to drive them both home because he had 2 less drinks then the other one. Buuuuut yet they're both still DRUNK!

Amazing, from a simple off the cuff suggestion you come up with this assumption.

What assumption is that? I've made no assumption merely responded to someone else's assumption.. Nice to see you singled out my post for criticism and a cryptic response though, I'm flattered, as I haven't seen you respond to hardly anyone else's so far to this point 30 pages in and only about 10 posts I've had compared to many more by so many others.. By all means please explain your response? It's meaning escapes me..

Edit; I get it, you don't catch on to sarcasm? Should have denoted with maybe that would have conveyed my meaning better?

Edited September 28, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Jingthing]

So these Thai school Nazi parades seem to pop up every five years or so. Whatever is in the culture here that makes them pop out sometimes is still in the culture here. I agree with the Israeli ambassador -- ignorance. I am not one to assert this is a top priority thing to teach Thai children beyond the basic facts of what happened in World War 2. If that's too ambitious, just make it school policy, no Nazi parades as for some strange reason they attract complaint letters from international embassies. Much more important as evidenced by the letter and the parade -- English language and HOW TO THINK.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[sbk]

Actually I was commenting on both of them, Seen far too many posts from people who take a tiny little scrap of information and then create an entire fictional scenario out of it to not believe it possible here. Yes indeed, next time do try the sarcasm smiley, you wouldn't want to appear to be one of those who do create scenarios out of whole cloth.

[WarpSpeed]

Actually I was commenting on both of them, Seen far too many posts from people who take a tiny little scrap of information and then create an entire fictional scenario out of it to not believe it possible here. Yes indeed, next time do try the sarcasm smiley, you wouldn't want to appear to be one of those who do create scenarios out of whole cloth.

Well unfortunately I've had to trim down from the original post due to limited quoting allowed so now the content is seemingly out of context as well.

[lannarebirth]

So these Thai school Nazi parades seem to pop up every five years or so. Whatever is in the culture here that makes them pop out sometimes is still in the culture here. I agree with the Israeli ambassador -- ignorance. I am not one to assert this is a top priority thing to teach Thai children beyond the basic facts of what happened in World War 2. If that's too ambitious, just make it school policy, no Nazi parades as for some strange reason they attract complaint letters from international embassies. Much more important as evidenced by the letter and the parade -- English language and HOW TO THINK.

There's something more to this story. It's not just about kids. I saw two adults in the Nazi regalia in some of the photos posted. School staff or parents perhaps. And a whole lot of coin was dropped on this spectacle as well. Really weird.

[Jingthing]

I saw that picture too. They are obviously hiding something when they claim it was a big surprise. OF COURSE some adults knew! But let's get real, this isn't Watergate, who knew and when did they know? They not only bungled by allowing the event, they bungled by the lame reaction to the complaints.

But I still don't see evidence that the students parading were thinking -- I want to glorify gassing Jews and invading Poland ...

Edited September 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

I saw that picture too. They are obviously hiding something when they claim it was a big surprise. OF COURSE some adults knew! But let's get real, this isn't Watergate, who knew and when did they know? They not only bungled by allowing the event, they bungled by the lame reaction to the complaints.

But I still don't see evidence that the students parading were thinking -- I want to glorify gassing Jews and invading Poland ...

Couldn't agree more. It's just bizarre, that's all.

[RedQualia]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

The Thai educational system is first and foremost about appearances, and not education. If I ever think they're serious about education, then I might be willing to teach here. But really -- the paperwork involved in becoming a teacher here is extremely (deliberately?) tiresome. Special visas, and then work permits, and then a teaching license, and you must leave in seven days if you stop teaching? Give me a break. Besides, Thailand has a sufficient supply of "those who might possibly be high school graduates from The West" throughout the country, ever ready to teach for next to no pay and without a work permit, at both fly-by-night schools and universities, while all the authorities look the other way. Why would they want to hire anyone with multiple graduate degrees? Well, they do, of course. At the local universities. Part time. Without a work permit. Wink wink, nudge nudge. I have no time for that crap. When Thailand comes up with a "One Visa" for teachers, that includes both the work permit and the teaching license, and that doesn't jerk the teacher around with "leave the country in seven days" kinds of rules, then maybe I'll think they're serious.

In the meantime, I cannot fault the students for their lack of education. And maybe I shouldn't fault the Thai educational system either. It's what they want, after all, and it serves their country as they wish it to be served. Who am I to complain? Besides... Aren't most Thais happy?

Edited September 28, 2011 by RedQualia

[kropotkin]

It's interesting to note that Prince Harry, third in line to the British throne, attended a private Fancy Dress Party wearing Nazi uniform not too long ago. However, his actions show that ignorance and insensitivity can occur at a much higher level than a Catholic school in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

Good golly.

A much higher level?

You are talking about Harry, The Upperclass Twit Of The Year, ?

Or do I confuse with the winner of the Di Bimbo Award?

Ahhhh those british..... if it was not for giving us Monty Python, why not drop a neutron bomb on that amerikan island off the European coast?

[Trouble]

Amazing number of posts here. Seems like anything to do with the holocaust/Nazis etc. is sure to bring out the extremes. I am sure those of Jewish heritage (if that is the right way to put it) feel very offended by what happened at the school. You should understand that the Holocaust is just one event in world history. While a sensitive issue for Jews and Israel, it is not necessarily sensitive for everyone else, particularly those born subsequent to the event. It is estimated that over 50 million people died as a result of WWII. What happened to the Jews and others (and there were many others) in the death camps was an appalling chapter in history. There have been many appalling chapters in human history which have shown how low the human race can sink. It has been estimated that the gulags of the Stalin era saw more people put to death than the Nazis could have imagined. The killing fields of Cambodia are another example. It goes on and on. The unfortunate part is that it still occurs. As one who majored in history in college, I have put the holocaust in perspective along with the other atrocities in history. The killing of any one person based on religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, ideology, etc. is an atrocity in itself. Over 65 years have passed since WWII. Most of Europe and the west has been held hostage to the holocaust since then. Even in those countries who actively fought the Germans in WWII there has been a tendency to feel apologetic about what happened. We feel we have to atone for this with memorials and monuments even in Washington, DC with the Holocaust memorial some 60 years after the event occurred. I am tired of being made to feel bad about what happened before I was born. It was a terrible thing. I would like to think the world would learn something from it, but it has not.

Do I share the sadness of what happened during the holocaust, sure. But quiet honestly I feel worse about what happened in Cambodia after the Vietnam war because this was my era and I was stationed in Vietnam while serving in the US Air Force. .Just maybe had the United States not been involved in that war, and then bailed out on its allies in South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, the Khmer Rouge would not have gone to the extremes that they did. Just maybe there would have been no killing fields. I was actually happy when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and put a stop to the brutal regime in Cambodia. Unfortunately full accountability and punishment for the atrocities in that country were never fully carried out. Over 50% of the population in Vietnam was born after the Vietnam war and do not seem to hold the United States as a poison. People move on, generations change, and I hope that at some point in time the Jews can move on beyond the Holocaust. As one poster stated, it seems like Israel and many Jews use this for leverage. The time has come to stop making the world feel guilty about the holocaust. I for one do not feel guilt for things that occurred before I was born. The holocaust is no more important to the children of Thailand than the gulags of Stalin, the Armenian genocide, or any of the other atrocities that have occurred. As an American I feel more guilt about what the white man did to the American Indians in their push west. America sends billions to Israel each year and Native Americans in some cases live in poverty. When I was in high school, I learned about the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War as honestly the emphasis was on "American" history. I did not learn until college that the Japanese invaded China, took control of Korea, etc. as early as the 1930's. There is no way students can be taught the whole of world history as there just is not enough class time to do that. So I would say tread lightly on criticism of what occurred in this Thai school.

A little off subject but it has been touched on here a bit (and for the record I am not anti-Israel) is that I feel that Israel plays the holocaust card well through Jews throughout the world. But Israel has hardly stepped up to the plate in regard to atrocities that have occurred in other parts of the world in recent history by leading in word or deed to alleviate suffering when genocide has occurred in areas such as Africa which have been in close proximity. It seems to have been the Western nations who have made the effort to stop genocide and help alleviate the suffering in recent history, unfortunately not always successfully.

Overall, in my view, the impression your post gives is that you are sick and tired of being guilt tripped by Jews. You deserve credit for being honest, but I can't give you much more credit than that.

It seems to me it's up to the Jewish people, not you or anyone else, whether it's time to "move on" from the holocaust. Sorry to tell you that the sentiment of NEVER AGAIN translates pretty much into never forget.

You cite Vietnam and the people not hating Americans. True that, but the last time I checked the Uncle Ho mausoleum in Hanoi is still massively popular. Do you think Israel and Germany are enemies now? Actually, they are close friends and allies.

You seem a bit put out by holocaust museums. Did they force you to attend? I reckon the one in Washington D.C. is the best one. Have you been? Are you aware that besides documenting the Shoah, a key raison d'etre of these holocaust museums is to raise awareness of CURRENT genocides in the world?

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/

What was different about the Nazi regime holocaust? What was different is that it was done by the most advanced industrialized country at the time in the heart of so called civilized western Europe. What was different was that they used modern media propaganda to brainwash their people (Jews portrayed as rats at the movies) and what was different was the industrial age technology they used to perform the genocide. (Classic example of Nazi genocide propaganda shown below.) Namely, the gas chambers. Also, the use of fascist pseudo race science "proof" to show the scientific basis for genocide. It isn't all about numbers; its also the shocking element of this happening in the context of modernity and advanced civilization.

Israel not doing enough about current genocides in the world? That's a fair point, but it's a small country with lots of her own problems, but I do know they have a strong foreign aid focus in offering quick response medical teams in emergencies. If you watched the coverage after Haiti earthquake, you will have noticed the Israeli medical teams were star players. Whether Israel is perfect or not (it is not!) doesn't seem to me to be all that relevant to whether the Nazi regime holocaust deserves inclusion in global school curriculum or whether Catholic school hosted Nazi parades should EVER be tolerated anywhere.

Cheers.

Seconding Jingthing.

I posted my remarks and stand by them and I am not going to go point by point with everyone who rebuts my post. I just don't have the time or interest. But yes, I am tired of being guilt tripped by Israel/ Jews on this subject. I am not anti-semetic. In fact I went to a high school that had a very significant population of Jewish students and have a number of Jewish friends. I don't choose to be or not to be friends with someone based on their religion. My point is that to the Jews/Israel the Holocaust and remembering it seems like it is a mission in life, whereas to the rest of the population it is another atrocity in history. Making the rest of the population feel guilt-tripped is not "in my opinion" productive for the Jews or the State of Israel, although in the short term has worked extremely well. But it is like force feeding, one starts tiring of it. NEVER AGAIN may mean NEVER FORGET for the Jews but It does not necessarily mean the rest of the population wants this force fed all the time. Remember that this happened before most of the people on this Earth were born. In reality most of the world has moved on, whereas this is an emotional issue for the Jews. I do understand that fact. But once again this thing with the school has been so blown out of proportion because of the sensitivity of one group. Not all individuals associate Nazism with death camps and the holocaust. The study of the National Socialist Movement in Germany in the 1930's/40;s is a complex issue and is not just about the Jews and the Holocaust. As with many movements in history it is sometimes convenient make one group feel superior by finding another group to blame for the ills of society. The Holocaust was an atrocious byproduct of this. The school event stepped on some sensitivities. It should have stayed a local issue and been resolved there.

To clarify a point, I stated: "I hope that at some point in time the Jews can move on beyond the Holocaust" just like others persecuted in history have moved on. That will take time and unfortunately, I am sure that in the near term it won't happen anytime soon because powers that be will continue to use it for leverage to either guilt trip others or to bind their own together. Let's face it, that is political power at play. What if Christians started reminding the Jews all the time that it was Jewish leaders of the time that forced the crucifixion of Christ? Would the Jews want to put that in the past, of course. What's worse is that all gentiles are being guilt tripped because of the Holocaust for political purposes.

Jingthing: From the number of posts you have made on this subject, this is an issue of importance to you. My post was not meant to be anti-semetic, anti-Israel or anything else. but yes 70 years after an event which happened before I was born, it is ancient history to me. That does not mean I don't find what happened in the Holocaust an important part of history, it is. But the fact is more atrocities have occurred since then. The world is making some effort to stop current day genocide and does make attempts to punish those involved. It is not perfect but we are trying to stop genocide. Most of the world gets it and we have, unfortunately, more current reminders of genocide.

For the record I am neither pro or anti Israel, Jews, Holocaust, or whatever. I try my best to be objective but none of us are ever purely objective in anything. My comments were just a point of view. It was the number of posts to this thread which attracted me here not the issue itself. This is the end of my interest on a subject which has already consumed way too much time. I am moving on and waiting for the next topic of note. Thanks

[MaxYakov]

Genghis Khan was a brutal mass-murderer. One of the worst mass-murderes in history.

He developed the science of war and took it to a new level of scientifically planned brutality where no one had gone previously.

His armies would surround cities and demand they yield, pay tribute, etc. If they refused, they'd viciously slaughter all but a few people, and send those folks on to the surrounding cities to let them know what happens when they refuse to yield. His armies committed heinous acts of mass-murder and violence that enabled him to conquer most of the known world at his time during his lifetime.

However, it's easy enough to look up mongolian restaurants with "Genghis khan" referenced in their names. In fact in Japanese, a term for a smorgasbord meat dinner is much derived from his name, "JINGISUKAN".

Anyway, the Thai people weren't part of the European war. Dressing up as Nazis means about as much to them as the pictures or figures of Genghis khan on horseback in full military uniform that can be found in mongolian restaurant mean to the patrons of those restaurants.

I'm sure if living survivors of Genghis's war crimes came across a bunch of Thais opening a Mongolian restaurant called the 'Ghenghis Khan Palace' back in the day they would be as equally appalled as the majority of people here.

Are you implying there were Holocaust survivors at the school at the school or that the people up in arms on this thread are survivors? There are many Ghenghis Khan named eateries all across the globe. WWII was 3 Generations ago so it is not really current day.

Check for kryptonite, Nisa. There are still WW II survivors alive as well as their children and grandchildren. Millions of people were killed and their ancestors have been unalterably affected and are not likely to forget. That includes from then right up til today and into the future spanning our lifetimes. Go to Russia and find us a 'Lenin' or 'Stalin' restaurant or travel to China and find us a 'Chairman Mao' or 'Tojo' restaurant and get back to us with the results.

I don't see how there is any sane comparison between a brutal empire builder in central Asia 900 years ago and Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo or any of the 20th century's militaristic empire builders. It appears as though Thailand was able to largely avoid the devastation and high casualties that other countries suffered in WW II. This was by forming a military alliance with the Japanese and then being able to avoid post-war retribution for those actions. Do you believe that if the Japanese had not lost the war that they would have considered Thailand and its people to be anything other than conquered territory to do with whatever they wished?

So it may be easier for Thai people to simply wave it off as 'not really current day' or some such condescending statement. I'm sure the Thai people would have a different memory of WW II if Bangkok and several other cities had been leveled by a combination of Allied and Japanese bombing as were many cities in Europe, China and Russia.

An American pilot spent a lot of time in a Thai prison camp after his P-40 was shot down over Chiang Mai on March 24th, 1942. The remains of his plane now reside in at the Royal Thai Air Force Museum, Chiang Mai: Chiang Mai P-40

Before that, many pilots of the American Volunteer Group (aka Flying Tigers) were lost fighting the Japanese in Thailand and there was a memorial dedicated to that in 2003 in Chiang Mai: AVG Memorial

My main concern with the activities at the school were not primarily the occurrence of the Holocaust, but with a recurrence of genocide and war in general. The concern I have has already been stated by George Santayana: Santayana@Wiki

But, I fear I'm lecturing an individual here who probably has trouble remembering even last week, since its 'not really current day', huh?

Edited September 28, 2011 by MaxYakov

[kropotkin]

<br />

<br />I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands.  When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"<br /><br />They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.<br /><br />

<br /><br />The Thai educational system is first and foremost about appearances, and not education. If I ever think they're serious about education, then I might be willing to teach here. But really -- the paperwork involved in becoming a teacher here is extremely (deliberately?) tiresome. Special visas, and then work permits, and then a teaching license, and you must leave in seven days if you stop teaching? Give me a break. Besides, Thailand has a sufficient supply of "those who might possibly be high school graduates from The West" throughout the country, ever ready to teach for next to no pay and without a work permit, at both fly-by-night schools and universities, while all the authorities look the other way. Why would they want to hire anyone with multiple graduate degrees? Well, they do, of course. At the local universities. Part time. Without a work permit. Wink wink, nudge nudge. I have no time for that crap. When Thailand comes up with a "One Visa" for teachers, that includes both the work permit and the teaching license, and that doesn't jerk the teacher around with "leave the country in seven days" kinds of rules, then maybe I'll think they're serious.<br /><br />In the meantime, I cannot fault the students for their lack of education. And maybe I shouldn't fault the Thai educational system either. It's what they want, after all, and it serves their country as they wish it to be served. Who am I to complain? Besides... Aren't most Thais happy?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

And who are THEY? Hey, do not answer, there are LM laws here....

[DP25]

Did anyone ever figure out who all the people were on the big banner with the picture of Hitler, planes, and 9 people seig heiling? Looks like Osama, Thaksin, Mao... maybe Che? Bush?

[Kananga]

Did anyone ever figure out who all the people were on the big banner with the picture of Hitler, planes, and 9 people seig heiling? Looks like Osama, Thaksin, Mao... maybe Che? Bush?

Top line far left = John Lennon (A prominent Nazi)

Bottom line far right = David Beckham (Renowned for his fascist right foot)

Top line far right = Mr Bean (The cornerstone of the Thai education system)

[473geo]

Did anyone ever figure out who all the people were on the big banner with the picture of Hitler, planes, and 9 people seig heiling? Looks like Osama, Thaksin, Mao... maybe Che? Bush?

I recall a comment in an earlier thread that the parade etc was about power, maybe also the wish to dominate by using violent action to beat the opposition into submission,

By the way I'm not sure Thaksin is on there, the guy who you would perhaps believe is Thaksin looks more Japanese to me

[commonparlance]

Anyone seen this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRxCUZp8Bg

It's the popular Thai rock band Slur with their song "Hitler." Maybe this is where the students in Chiang Mai got their inspiration? Either way, it's part and parcel of the same thing.

I don't think it's fair to say that this is simply ignorance. As others have noted, adults had to have been involved, and some of them surely knew what they were dealing with. And the amount of research that those involved (kids or adults) would have had to do to create the costumes, banners, etc. pretty much guarantee that they would have encountered some evidence (photos, at least) showing the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. That said, the level of ignorance about WWII/the Holocaust is definitely higher in Thailand than any Western country.

It also comes out of a desire to be "edgy." As anyone who's spent time in a Thai school knows, these sports days are basically an excuse for students to dress up in risque/outlandish costumes and have fun, which for them is a welcome respite from the strictness and conformity demanded of them other days of the year. The whole point is to be somewhat shocking. I was genuinely surprised the first time I saw the dance routines they do for these events, backed by a soundtrack of American pop rap with lyrics all about sex (and this is after the administration told us male teachers that we couldn't wear shorts to sports day because it would be too "sexy"). While Thai students probably don't quite grasp the full extent of the Nazi Regime's evilness and brutality, they understand that for one reason or another, dressing up like Nazis is a transgressive act, and that's the whole point.

In addition to ignorance and a desire to be edgy, there is the Thai fascination with uniforms, with iconography and flags, with pageantry and displays of power and discipline, with the rhetoric of us-vs.-them, ingroups and outgroups, all of which the Nazis had in spades. Since they don't really understand the context, Hitler comes across as simply a badass dude, a powerful man who evokes strong reactions in people, and he and the Nazis are therefore considered worthy models for a game of dress-up.

[Beetlejuice]

Genghis Khan was a brutal mass-murderer. One of the worst mass-murderes in history.

He developed the science of war and took it to a new level of scientifically planned brutality where no one had gone previously.

His armies would surround cities and demand they yield, pay tribute, etc. If they refused, they'd viciously slaughter all but a few people, and send those folks on to the surrounding cities to let them know what happens when they refuse to yield. His armies committed heinous acts of mass-murder and violence that enabled him to conquer most of the known world at his time during his lifetime.

However, it's easy enough to look up mongolian restaurants with "Genghis khan" referenced in their names. In fact in Japanese, a term for a smorgasbord meat dinner is much derived from his name, "JINGISUKAN".

Anyway, the Thai people weren't part of the European war. Dressing up as Nazis means about as much to them as the pictures or figures of Genghis khan on horseback in full military uniform that can be found in mongolian restaurant mean to the patrons of those restaurants.

I'm sure if living survivors of Genghis's war crimes came across a bunch of Thais opening a Mongolian restaurant called the 'Ghenghis Khan Palace' back in the day they would be as equally appalled as the majority of people here.

Are you implying there were Holocaust survivors at the school at the school or that the people up in arms on this thread are survivors? There are many Ghenghis Khan named eateries all across the globe. WWII was 3 Generations ago so it is not really current day.

Check for kryptonite, Nisa. There are still WW II survivors alive as well as their children and grandchildren. Millions of people were killed and their ancestors have been unalterably affected and are not likely to forget. That includes from then right up til today and into the future spanning our lifetimes. Go to Russia and find us a 'Lenin' or 'Stalin' restaurant or travel to China and find us a 'Chairman Mao' or 'Tojo' restaurant and get back to us with the results.

I don't see how there is any sane comparison between a brutal empire builder in central Asia 900 years ago and Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo or any of the 20th century's militaristic empire builders. It appears as though Thailand was able to largely avoid the devastation and high casualties that other countries suffered in WW II. This was by forming a military alliance with the Japanese and then being able to avoid post-war retribution for those actions. Do you believe that if the Japanese had not lost the war that they would have considered Thailand and its people to be anything other than conquered territory to do with whatever they wished?

So it may be easier for Thai people to simply wave it off as 'not really current day' or some such condescending statement. I'm sure the Thai people would have a different memory of WW II if Bangkok and several other cities had been leveled by a combination of Allied and Japanese bombing as were many cities in Europe, China and Russia.

An American pilot spent a lot of time in a Thai prison camp after his P-40 was shot down over Chiang Mai on March 24th, 1942. The remains of his plane now reside in at the Royal Thai Air Force Museum, Chiang Mai: Chiang Mai P-40

Before that, many pilots of the American Volunteer Group (aka Flying Tigers) were lost fighting the Japanese in Thailand and there was a memorial dedicated to that in 2003 in Chiang Mai: AVG Memorial

My main concern with the activities at the school were not primarily the occurrence of the Holocaust, but with a recurrence of genocide and war in general. The concern I have has already been stated by George Santayana: Santayana@Wiki

But, I fear I'm lecturing an individual here who probably has trouble remembering even last week, since its 'not really current day', huh?

As you have said you are not anti-Semitic, anti this or anti that, yes, I am convinced and sold on what you say.

I was just trying to establish what side of the fence you are on, because I hate racists and bigots, just cannot tolerate them, especially because like so many others here, I have half Thai children, I also have Jews, Catholics, protestants, Scots, Irish, Spanish and Dutch in my family and I have duel USA and British nationality.

I speak like Gary Grant the late actor, a mixture of an English accent with some Yank thrown in. Could be described as a right Yanker if you like. Only unlike Tony Curtis in the movie, Some Like It Hot, my accent hasn't attracted anyone like Marilyn Monroe yet.

Much of what you say makes absolute sense and I now reading into it, with a better understanding of the meaning, I totally agree with you.

Yes, we should never forget, but also the holocaust should not be continually thrust onto us like a bad bout of flu that won't go away. Enough is enough, already.

You are right, the persistent reminders are non productive for the Jews or the State of Israel, and as a matter of fact can have the opposite affect of becoming a wind up for many people, although every time I see Germans when I'm out and about, I do start visualising them wearing a grey uniform, Jack boots, the tin helmet and expecting them to give a Nazi salute at any moment, but that's due to watching too many WW2 movies.

As I said previous the Second World War was more than just the holocaust, much, much more.

It is time for everyone to put old differences aside, the past is the past, it has happened and there is nothing we can do to change things.

We have to strive for a better world, united together and not split because of religion and old prejudices from a past era.

Sorry for my mis-understanding of your first post.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[MaxYakov]

Did anyone ever figure out who all the people were on the big banner with the picture of Hitler, planes, and 9 people seig heiling? Looks like Osama, Thaksin, Mao... maybe Che? Bush?

Top line far left = John Lennon (A prominent Nazi)

Bottom line far right = David Beckham (Renowned for his fascist right foot)

Top line far right = Mr Bean (The cornerstone of the Thai education system)

Good work! Puts a different slant on these students or whomever the creative elements were. Notice Mr. Bean's 'special' version of the Sieg Heil and that they have been given the famous mustache treatment - very stylish. I'm surprised that Bush the younger isn't among them. Earlier I had a flash that it could have been members of the school faculty, but I was pretty sure the kids would not have risked it (but probably considered it). Am too tired to pursue the remaining UBNs (Unidentified Banner Nazis). Lower left could be Bin Laden and not The Grand Mufti. Volunteers?

Edited September 28, 2011 by MaxYakov

[473geo]

In a statement on its website, the Simon Wiesenthal Center called for "immediate action against all those responsible for promoting and facilitating this disgraceful display",

So you punish and persecute the teachers and children, destroy lives as best you can, make sure they suffer for their actions

Oh..... but is that not why you are so offended in the first place

Hypocrites

Edited September 28, 2011 by 473geo

[mulryan]

Of course, the American history that's taught in US schools is biased, and sometimes tends toward chauvinistic myth-making.

I'd go with that. They could do with dispelling the myth that you lot rolled up and saved everyone's ass. I'd posit not many over there know that Britain prevented their country from being taken by a superior air force in the Battle of Britain (WITHOUT the US) and that Germany declared war on the US. As great as the achievements of the US may be, the gung-ho 'we are the shit' attitude irritates many.

The students are so unaware - yet they cannot be blamed. To a Thai, there is no avenue to history other than Thai history!

I have two young boys in school now and I would rather the Thai educational system prepare them for the future.

Best way to prepare for a sound future is to learn from the past!

On your first point, there's no excuse for not knowing. The internet is loaded with information on anything & everything and is widely available. It's just plain laziness, ineptitude, history being 'mai sanook', and just not giving a hoot.

What the h#ll does this have to do with anything here? I assume another Brit with an axe to grind even though they didn't end up speaking German? 'we are the shit' ? I guess you don't attend or watch soccer matches in the UK where opposing towns riot and pummel each other because of that mentality. Stay on point. Go after the Nazis...

[Beetlejuice]

Did anyone ever figure out who all the people were on the big banner with the picture of Hitler, planes, and 9 people seig heiling? Looks like Osama, Thaksin, Mao... maybe Che? Bush?

Top line far left = John Lennon (A prominent Nazi)

Bottom line far right = David Beckham (Renowned for his fascist right foot)

Top line far right = Mr Bean (The cornerstone of the Thai education system)

Good work! Puts a different slant on these students or whomever the creative elements were. Notice Mr. Bean's 'special' version of the Sieg Heil and that they have been given the famous mustache treatment - very stylish. I'm surprised that Bush the younger isn't among them. Earlier I had a flash that it could have been members of the school faculty, but I was pretty sure the kids would not have risked it (but probably considered it). Am too tired to pursue the remaining UBNs (Unidentified Banner Nazis). Lower left could be Bin Laden and not The Grand Mufti. Volunteers?

Ok then, who would you nominate as a prime candidate for a good Nazi and should appear in that poster?

Why didn’t they portray our Mr Thaksin in there and to be honest I think Rowan Atkinson should be hung for crimes against humanity. I’ve had to suffer years of mental torture with my kids watching his stupid Mr Bean shows.

Now this is between you and me, I did find that Thai student girl dressed in full Nazi uniform as a bit of a turn on. I wonder how much she charges for a full hour or interrogation under stress?

[nottocus]

Did anyone ever figure out who all the people were on the big banner with the picture of Hitler, planes, and 9 people seig heiling? Looks like Osama, Thaksin, Mao... maybe Che? Bush?

Top line far left = John Lennon (A prominent Nazi)

Bottom line far right = David Beckham (Renowned for his fascist right foot)

Top line far right = Mr Bean (The cornerstone of the Thai education system)

Good work! Puts a different slant on these students or whomever the creative elements were. Notice Mr. Bean's 'special' version of the Sieg Heil and that they have been given the famous mustache treatment - very stylish. I'm surprised that Bush the younger isn't among them. Earlier I had a flash that it could have been members of the school faculty, but I was pretty sure the kids would not have risked it (but probably considered it). Am too tired to pursue the remaining UBNs (Unidentified Banner Nazis). Lower left could be Bin Laden and not The Grand Mufti. Volunteers?

Ok then, who would you nominate as a prime candidate for a good Nazi and should appear in that poster?

Why didn't they portray our Mr Thaksin in there and to be honest I think Rowan Atkinson should be hung for crimes against humanity. I've had to suffer years of mental torture with my kids watching his stupid Mr Bean shows.

Now this is between you and me, I did find that Thai student girl dressed in full Nazi uniform as a bit of a turn on. I wonder how much she charges for a full hour or interrogation under stress?

Agreed. That young lass in her Nazi uniform almost made me wish I was a jew...to be used and abused at her sadistic discretion.

[Nisa]

Genghis Khan was a brutal mass-murderer. One of the worst mass-murderes in history.

He developed the science of war and took it to a new level of scientifically planned brutality where no one had gone previously.

His armies would surround cities and demand they yield, pay tribute, etc. If they refused, they'd viciously slaughter all but a few people, and send those folks on to the surrounding cities to let them know what happens when they refuse to yield. His armies committed heinous acts of mass-murder and violence that enabled him to conquer most of the known world at his time during his lifetime.

However, it's easy enough to look up mongolian restaurants with "Genghis khan" referenced in their names. In fact in Japanese, a term for a smorgasbord meat dinner is much derived from his name, "JINGISUKAN".

Anyway, the Thai people weren't part of the European war. Dressing up as Nazis means about as much to them as the pictures or figures of Genghis khan on horseback in full military uniform that can be found in mongolian restaurant mean to the patrons of those restaurants.

I'm sure if living survivors of Genghis's war crimes came across a bunch of Thais opening a Mongolian restaurant called the 'Ghenghis Khan Palace' back in the day they would be as equally appalled as the majority of people here.

Are you implying there were Holocaust survivors at the school at the school or that the people up in arms on this thread are survivors? There are many Ghenghis Khan named eateries all across the globe. WWII was 3 Generations ago so it is not really current day.

Check for kryptonite, Nisa. There are still WW II survivors alive as well as their children and grandchildren. Millions of people were killed and their ancestors have been unalterably affected and are not likely to forget. That includes from then right up til today and into the future spanning our lifetimes. Go to Russia and find us a 'Lenin' or 'Stalin' restaurant or travel to China and find us a 'Chairman Mao' or 'Tojo' restaurant and get back to us with the results.

I don't see how there is any sane comparison between a brutal empire builder in central Asia 900 years ago and Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo or any of the 20th century's militaristic empire builders. It appears as though Thailand was able to largely avoid the devastation and high casualties that other countries suffered in WW II. This was by forming a military alliance with the Japanese and then being able to avoid post-war retribution for those actions. Do you believe that if the Japanese had not lost the war that they would have considered Thailand and its people to be anything other than conquered territory to do with whatever they wished?

So it may be easier for Thai people to simply wave it off as 'not really current day' or some such condescending statement. I'm sure the Thai people would have a different memory of WW II if Bangkok and several other cities had been leveled by a combination of Allied and Japanese bombing as were many cities in Europe, China and Russia.

An American pilot spent a lot of time in a Thai prison camp after his P-40 was shot down over Chiang Mai on March 24th, 1942. The remains of his plane now reside in at the Royal Thai Air Force Museum, Chiang Mai: Chiang Mai P-40

Before that, many pilots of the American Volunteer Group (aka Flying Tigers) were lost fighting the Japanese in Thailand and there was a memorial dedicated to that in 2003 in Chiang Mai: AVG Memorial

My main concern with the activities at the school were not primarily the occurrence of the Holocaust, but with a recurrence of genocide and war in general. The concern I have has already been stated by George Santayana: Santayana@Wiki

But, I fear I'm lecturing an individual here who probably has trouble remembering even last week, since its 'not really current day', huh?

I'm guessing this post was purely for self gratification? It certainly has absolutely nothing to do with my response/question to the previous poster.

[Nisa]

Or just maybe it could be that English is not the language of Thailand or of the language of school in question or that the Sister/Director is Thai and not an English teacher and English is just one of the subjects offered at the school.

Not to mention that English is not even considered the second official language of Thailand.

Road signs are in what two languages? Government offices are identified by signs in what two languages?

What is the official second language of Thailand?

The head nun at an international Catholic school should speak at least what three languages?

English is not the official 2nd language of Thailand ... as far as I know there is not one, just as many other countries don't have one. Not long ago there was a bill that was shot down to make it the 2nd language.

What makes you say it is an International School? Only in the last few years did they introduce English Program there?

www.sch.ac.th

Edited September 28, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

It's interesting to note that Prince Harry, third in line to the British throne, attended a private Fancy Dress Party wearing Nazi uniform not too long ago. However, his actions show that ignorance and insensitivity can occur at a much higher level than a Catholic school in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

It might be "interesting" if it hadn't already been mentioned like ten times already! Anyway, totally different situations. That was a costume party, this was an officially sanctioned event at a CATHOLIC school.

It was an officially sanctioned event where students get to keep secret their "fancy dress".

Harry was a 20-year old prince at the time going to a birthday party where the fancy dress theme "colonial and native"

Harry was not only an adult but given his position, education and country of origin ... and also is a Christian (Church of England)

I find it very odd (and telling) that you can excuse Harry so easily and not kids whose country's involvement and suffering where very little as a result of the war compared to England and whose education in their developing nation is not even close to being on par with the education and history given to Harry.

Personally I could care less what people do with symbols or images or if the Pope dressed as Hitler, Stalin or the Devil himself, especially if no malice was involved ... but I do find it very odd that somebody who claims to have a problem with this type of thing only is upset at certain type of people for this kind of action.