Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[WarpSpeed]

It is beyond rational belief that some adults didn't know what was being cooked up, including some adult faculty. Also, of course, once it became known to more people, and remember some foreign faculty voiced open concern but were told to back off -- this is OK in Thailand --, it absolutely should have been called out completely. That part is definitely the school's administration blunder. No, it isn't the crime of the century, but lets not be naive about this either.

Says it all and this continual apologist rant Nisa is on is beyond rational belief..

[RedOctober]

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

The swastika may very well be a religious symbol, but the uniforms and plastic machine guns are not.

Where on earth did this idea of 'fashion' spring from? And what on earth was going through their heads!? Getting a bit tired of the same lame excuse for this breathtaking ignorance.

See my post above yours.

Students in Thailand are not very aware of European history or even geography. But of course they also like to schock, etc.

What they did was clearly wrong and the school should have acted promptly and swiftly. That no teacher would have know what the studens were planning to wear is unbelieveble.

Edited September 29, 2011 by RedOctober

[Kananga]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

Why does it need to be taught? In Europe they teach more about the Nazi party and the German/Russian part in the war, in America they teach about the Japanese and in Thailand they teach what the Japanese did in Asia. This is the same throughout the world, you learn more about what happened in your area. You need to stop being so elitist.

In that case shouldnt the school dressed up as Japanese imperial soldiers with a big Rising Sun to depict the 'red' theme? After all thats what they were supposedly taught at school.

The funny thing is, i was educated on the other side of the planet and not only did we learn about the Nazis, the American involvement but the Asian campaigns as well. I have a good understanding of what suffering happened as a result of this war, who was responsible and the impact it had on the rest of the world and the way it changed history for EVERYONE. Thats why it needs to be taught.

Its not being elitist to assume that you would only have to attend one hour long lesson on Hitler's atrocities to realise it is not acceptable to allow children to dress up like him and parade round a school with toy guns and a fascist salute.

[funcat]

BTW,not to interrupt..."The Schindler's List" is starting on True Visions (Thai) channel #42 at 20:40...

[Nisa]

A number of these movies dealt little with educating people about the War or were simply fiction.

But the fact is none of them did well in the Box Office in Thailand. The Pianist and Enemy at The Gates don't even list any box office receipts. The others ( Valkyrie, Schindlers List and Inglourious Basterds) averaged, between the three, a total of $475,000 at the Box Office in Thailand. Yet, King Naresuan: Part Three (Thai Movie) grossed $6.7 Million and King Naresuan 4 (Thai Movie), grossed over $5 Million in 2 weeks this past August.

It's also not true that they were not relative or were fiction but even if so, so what? The content is still accurate in basis even if maybe the characters were possibly fictional.. I forgot another great one based on fact, Daniel Craig in Defiance.

Inglourious Basterds was not pure fiction???????? This and a number the other movies would do little to educate anybody to the horrors of WWII, especially those completely unfamiliar with the subject matter. Most westerners watching a character based Thai movie set in past times would also be unaware if the movie was based on fact or fiction or how much. The also might not even grasp why characters (such as in Inglourious Basterds) would be interested in killing another unknown but familiar faced person (Hitler) except he represented the enemy.

FYI, Defiance barely was released in Thailand and only did $132k at the box office here.

I should have said regardless of whether or not fiction the portrayals of the events of the time are still based on facts of the war..

You keep quoting these wiki numbers on ticket sales in Thailand as if it has any relevance whatsoever to what's being said which it doesn't. It doesn't take into account cable viewers even still is really unrelated and more over just serving to reinforce my point for which I've reiterated numerous times..

It's common in the legal system to try to claim ignorance of the law in defense of one's self to justfy breaking it but any court of law will tell you that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

I didn't quote Wiki numbers and clearly showed that the war films mentioned received little interest in Thailand especially compared with Thai Movies of Thai History. If you can't see the revalence then I guess not worth getting into too much into comment about ignorance of the law as actually being unrelated but you should be aware that what you should be saying is there is no defense in terms of ignorance of the law not that it is a common defense. Also, being ignorant that you are breaking the law is often a valid excuse (such as driving on suspended license not being illegal if your don't know your license is suspended) as well as ones intentions also being a big part of if a law is broken. But again, just ridiculous to get into the law regarding this issue as it just is another way to try and make the issue bigger than it is.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Nisa

[Kananga]

It is beyond rational belief that some adults didn't know what was being cooked up, including some adult faculty. Also, of course, once it became known to more people, and remember some foreign faculty voiced open concern but were told to back off -- this is OK in Thailand --, it absolutely should have been called out completely. That part is definitely the school's administration blunder. No, it isn't the crime of the century, but lets not be naive about this either.

Says it all and this continual apologist rant Nisa is on is beyond rational belief..

Yeah, in apologist nisa's eyes the foreign faculty was responsible even though they tried to warn the dimwits in charge.

[cmsally]

I can only see holding the expat teachers responsible

I thought you said it wasn't an international school?

Well you thought and read wrong again as I never said it wasn't.

Does a Thai school teaching English (often done by expats) automatically make it an International School?

Perhaps I can clear up the misunderstanding. Prahalatai (Sacred Heart) is a private Catholic Thai school. It is not an International school. It has no accredited program to teach international curriculum (as far as I know). However it has an EP (English Program)which is a separate program based on Thai curriculum but taught mostly in English. This is not simply teaching English but teaching other subjects in the English language.

As such they should have a number of people on their campus who are fluent in the English language. Well we would hope so wouldn't we; otherwise the parents are wasting their money, paying the extra baht it cost to put them in this program.

[Kananga]

I can only see holding the expat teachers responsible

I thought you said it wasn't an international school?

Well you thought and read wrong again as I never said it wasn't.

Does a Thai school teaching English (often done by expats) automatically make it an International School?

Perhaps I can clear up the misunderstanding. Prahalatai (Sacred Heart) is a private Catholic Thai school. It is not an International school. It has no accredited program to teach international curriculum (as far as I know). However it has an EP (English Program)which is a separate program based on Thai curriculum but taught mostly in English. This is not simply teaching English but teaching other subjects in the English language.

As such they should have a number of people on their campus who are fluent in the English language. Well we would hope so wouldn't we; otherwise the parents are wasting their money, paying the extra baht it cost to put them in this program.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Although their website is misleading in this regard. You do bring up a valid point regarding English fluency though as the person who wrote the apology was certianly not competent enough for me to pay extra hard earned money for my children to learn an English program from.

I suppose they could hardly ask the foreign teachers who tried to warn them not to go ahead to write it for them though could they

[cmsally]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

Why does it need to be taught? In Europe they teach more about the Nazi party and the German/Russian part in the war, in America they teach about the Japanese and in Thailand they teach what the Japanese did in Asia. This is the same throughout the world, you learn more about what happened in your area. You need to stop being so elitist.

In that case shouldnt the school dressed up as Japanese imperial soldiers with a big Rising Sun to depict the 'red' theme? After all thats what they were supposedly taught at school.

The funny thing is, i was educated on the other side of the planet and not only did we learn about the Nazis, the American involvement but the Asian campaigns as well. I have a good understanding of what suffering happened as a result of this war, who was responsible and the impact it had on the rest of the world and the way it changed history for EVERYONE. Thats why it needs to be taught.

Its not being elitist to assume that you would only have to attend one hour long lesson on Hitler's atrocities to realise it is not acceptable to allow children to dress up like him and parade round a school with toy guns and a fascist salute.

Not smart; one of the parents might hold the local dealership for Toyota!

[Kananga]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

Why does it need to be taught? In Europe they teach more about the Nazi party and the German/Russian part in the war, in America they teach about the Japanese and in Thailand they teach what the Japanese did in Asia. This is the same throughout the world, you learn more about what happened in your area. You need to stop being so elitist.

In that case shouldnt the school dressed up as Japanese imperial soldiers with a big Rising Sun to depict the 'red' theme? After all thats what they were supposedly taught at school.

The funny thing is, i was educated on the other side of the planet and not only did we learn about the Nazis, the American involvement but the Asian campaigns as well. I have a good understanding of what suffering happened as a result of this war, who was responsible and the impact it had on the rest of the world and the way it changed history for EVERYONE. Thats why it needs to be taught.

Its not being elitist to assume that you would only have to attend one hour long lesson on Hitler's atrocities to realise it is not acceptable to allow children to dress up like him and parade round a school with toy guns and a fascist salute.

Not smart; one of the parents might hold the local dealership for Toyota!

Obviously the head teachers of the sacred heart school value Toyotas over BMWs..

[funcat]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Although their website is misleading in this regard. You do bring up a valid point regarding English fluency though as the person who wrote the apology was certianly not competent enough for me to pay extra hard earned money for my children to learn an English program from.

I suppose they could hardly ask the foreign teachers who tried to warn them not to go ahead to write it for them though could they

that would be "losing a face"situation ??...I guess..

[MaxYakov]

You might want to brush up on your Thai as this doesn't say it is an international school. However, it may market itself as an International School now that it has an English program but there are very few international students there compared to actual international schools in Thailand.

Ok so by your understanding it isn't an international school, yet it is marketing itself as an international school? So they are false advertising then, and marketing themselves as something they are not. Dear oh dear, is there no end to this school's lies and depict?

Are you really this incapable of comprehending simple words and statements or just extremely determined to maintain your condemnation despite facts and/or logic?

It's International now ... if only in notoriety: CNN News ABC Melbourne Unex. Mysteries Gawker . Check the Gawker pics. Cute!

[Nisa]

I can only see holding the expat teachers responsible

I thought you said it wasn't an international school?

Well you thought and read wrong again as I never said it wasn't.

Does a Thai school teaching English (often done by expats) automatically make it an International School?

When debating me yesterday, I said it was an international school. In post # 749 Nisa wrote, "What makes you say it is an International School? Only in the last few years did they introduce English Program there?" End of quote.

You meant and I certainly understood you to mean it was not an international school.

What I meant is what I asked. Again Again Again you are showing a very strong indication of a reading comprehension problem.

"What makes you say it is an International School?" is no way saying it is not, it is asking a question. I just haven;t seen anything to indicate is an international school as I know them. But if it has just 1 international student then maybe it is considered an International school but I haven't seen anything to indicate it has any foreigners ... I believe there was only mention of some (no number given) of expat parents. Everything else to me seems to indicate there are no international students but I have no idea and why I asked as well as what I;ve always personally considered an international school is one made of many international students.

As for the comment, "Only in the last few years did they introduce English Program there?" ... even though I mistakenly put a question mark at the end of the statement, I would hope a reasonable person would understand this is a type based on the sentence structure. Not to mention it has nothing to do with you claim I said this was not an international school.

You would be better off trying to use another quote I made where I compared it to "actual international schools" that I was aware of, as that would have been a better attempt to claim I said something I didn't and instead of taking my words of my stating I didn't know but suspect it is not an international school as we think of them typically in Thailand.

[cmsally]

Well you thought and read wrong again as I never said it wasn't.

Does a Thai school teaching English (often done by expats) automatically make it an International School?

Perhaps I can clear up the misunderstanding. Prahalatai (Sacred Heart) is a private Catholic Thai school. It is not an International school. It has no accredited program to teach international curriculum (as far as I know). However it has an EP (English Program)which is a separate program based on Thai curriculum but taught mostly in English. This is not simply teaching English but teaching other subjects in the English language.

As such they should have a number of people on their campus who are fluent in the English language. Well we would hope so wouldn't we; otherwise the parents are wasting their money, paying the extra baht it cost to put them in this program.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Although their website is misleading in this regard. You do bring up a valid point regarding English fluency though as the person who wrote the apology was certianly not competent enough for me to pay extra hard earned money for my children to learn an English program from.

I suppose they could hardly ask the foreign teachers who tried to warn them not to go ahead to write it for them though could they

Absolutely correct, this one of the fundamental faults in the system, these schools are riddled with status and hierarchy. For the top bozo to have to request a translation or proofread would be to admit that the top is in some way inferior to the lower levels. Its a system that is inherent here and is well established in the religious schools.

Similarly with the content of the apology , in no way would the top see itself as having responsibility. I am guessing if they were pushed that someone from the lower levels would fall on the chopping block; but they were not pushed and maybe no likely contenders.

[Nisa]

I can only see holding the expat teachers responsible

I thought you said it wasn't an international school?

Well you thought and read wrong again as I never said it wasn't.

Does a Thai school teaching English (often done by expats) automatically make it an International School?

Perhaps I can clear up the misunderstanding. Prahalatai (Sacred Heart) is a private Catholic Thai school. It is not an International school. It has no accredited program to teach international curriculum (as far as I know). However it has an EP (English Program)which is a separate program based on Thai curriculum but taught mostly in English. This is not simply teaching English but teaching other subjects in the English language.

As such they should have a number of people on their campus who are fluent in the English language. Well we would hope so wouldn't we; otherwise the parents are wasting their money, paying the extra baht it cost to put them in this program.

Thanks for the clarification. I do know the school is much cheaper than the international schools in the area and that the English Program was set up in the last couple years. I did read something on their website about their being a Thai & English teacher in every class but they probably were referring to the English based classes only and not all classrooms.

[Nisa]

It is beyond rational belief that some adults didn't know what was being cooked up, including some adult faculty. Also, of course, once it became known to more people, and remember some foreign faculty voiced open concern but were told to back off -- this is OK in Thailand --, it absolutely should have been called out completely. That part is definitely the school's administration blunder. No, it isn't the crime of the century, but lets not be naive about this either.

Says it all and this continual apologist rant Nisa is on is beyond rational belief..

Yeah, in apologist nisa's eyes the foreign faculty was responsible even though they tried to warn the dimwits in charge.

More reading comprehension problems or are you simply blatantly making false statements now

[Kananga]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Although their website is misleading in this regard. You do bring up a valid point regarding English fluency though as the person who wrote the apology was certianly not competent enough for me to pay extra hard earned money for my children to learn an English program from.

I suppose they could hardly ask the foreign teachers who tried to warn them not to go ahead to write it for them though could they

that would be "losing a face"situation ??...I guess..

The school was not available for comment.

That's not losing face, that's losing the whole head Japanese execution style.

[SteeleJoe]

A piece of history everyone would like to forget but a piece of history nonetheless.

These kids, I imagine through ignorance, saw no harm in a bit of role play so make a big deal of it I won't.

Weird old world. Kids dress up everyday as cowboys/US cavalry and fight Indians not a peep from anyone.

I wonder? What did happen to those millions of red indians? certainly didn't die of old age

No, not old age. The vast majority did of disease introduced by Europeans. Far, far more than were ever killed by US military forces.

This is not to say that a horrible thing was not done to the native populations of all the Americas (South America too) -- or indigenous populations throughout the world -- clearly both what was deliberately and inadvertantly done led to a human tragedy of colossal proportions.

[Nisa]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

Why does it need to be taught? In Europe they teach more about the Nazi party and the German/Russian part in the war, in America they teach about the Japanese and in Thailand they teach what the Japanese did in Asia. This is the same throughout the world, you learn more about what happened in your area. You need to stop being so elitist.

In that case shouldnt the school dressed up as Japanese imperial soldiers with a big Rising Sun to depict the 'red' theme? After all thats what they were supposedly taught at school.

Maybe they did that last year

[funcat]

It is beyond rational belief that some adults didn't know what was being cooked up, including some adult faculty. Also, of course, once it became known to more people, and remember some foreign faculty voiced open concern but were told to back off -- this is OK in Thailand --, it absolutely should have been called out completely. That part is definitely the school's administration blunder. No, it isn't the crime of the century, but lets not be naive about this either.

Says it all and this continual apologist rant Nisa is on is beyond rational belief..

Yeah, in apologist nisa's eyes the foreign faculty was responsible even though they tried to warn the dimwits in charge.

More reading comprehension problems or are you simply blatantly making false statements now

Nisa stop breathing...you taking to much space...

[Kananga]

It is beyond rational belief that some adults didn't know what was being cooked up, including some adult faculty. Also, of course, once it became known to more people, and remember some foreign faculty voiced open concern but were told to back off -- this is OK in Thailand --, it absolutely should have been called out completely. That part is definitely the school's administration blunder. No, it isn't the crime of the century, but lets not be naive about this either.

Says it all and this continual apologist rant Nisa is on is beyond rational belief..

Yeah, in apologist nisa's eyes the foreign faculty was responsible even though they tried to warn the dimwits in charge.

More reading comprehension problems or are you simply blatantly making false statements now

I'm just drawing conclusions from your comment in #852 where YOU wrote "I can only see holding the expat teachers responsible'. So yes I do have comprehension problems, I have a problem comprehending why you continue to contradict yourself when there is a log of everything you have written.

[SteeleJoe]

Did any of you know that in the closing days of WW2 Japan forced the the Then Thai Gov. to declare war on the USA! The declaration of war note, was never delivered thanks to the USA Thai ambassadors refusal to deliver it.

Haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been pointed out:

It was at the very beginning of the war. And I'm not sure you can claim they were forced. The significance of the declaration of war thing is oversimplified and overestimated as well...

I can't be bothered to type at length about this bit of history again -- we only recently went over it at length on another thread...

[philw]

It was a fancy dress parade, not a political statement.

Can you see the difference or more importantly, do you choose not to see, in order to follow your own agenda / preconception. ??

Somehow I doubt they were planning the invasion of Poland.

I wonder what the reaction on here would be if they were wearing PLO flags and uniforms ( if there is one )

What if they were expressing perceived support for Palestine ????

How would this thread sound then ??

Back to basics.

It was a stupid fancy dress parade, without motive or meaning organised by a group of14 yr old girls.

This is not exactly the resurrection of the Reich.

Wish TV could put as much energy into helping people instead of waving respective flags............

[cmsally]

OK sorry the quotes are getting a bit out of hand so just a plain reply.

Can we stop the "suspect it might be international" etc stuff.

They have an EP program and as such teach other subjects (apart from English) in English language.

As such they will certainly have foreign teachers in the school and probably some pretty fluent Thai English speakers too. Certainly people that are better able to write a decent apology letter.

At the beginning of this it was stated foreign faculty tried to warn them, which infers 2 things

1 they have fluent English speakers who passed basic history class

2 the admin knew what was going on before the actual parade

The foreign faculty was not responsible, what we mean is the school had prior knowledge of what was going on and its consequences before the event. That they chose to ignore, speaks volumes doesn't it.

[funcat]

It was a fancy dress parade, not a political statement.

Can you see the difference or more importantly, do you choose not to see, in order to follow your own agenda / preconception. ??

Somehow I doubt they were planning the invasion of Poland.

I wonder what the reaction on here would be if they were wearing PLO flags and uniforms ( if there is one )

What if they were expressing perceived support for Palestine ????

How would this thread sound then ??

Back to basics.

It was a stupid fancy dress parade, without motive or meaning organised by a group of14 yr old girls.

This is not exactly the resurrection of the Reich.

Wish TV could put as much energy into helping people instead of waving respective flags............

I guess you've joined this tread late...maybe it was innocent on children's part,but somebody sponsored that whole spectacle...WHO??!!

[Nisa]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

Why does it need to be taught? In Europe they teach more about the Nazi party and the German/Russian part in the war, in America they teach about the Japanese and in Thailand they teach what the Japanese did in Asia. This is the same throughout the world, you learn more about what happened in your area. You need to stop being so elitist.

WWI & WWII were barely covered when I went to High School, let alone Junior High school. I think we just learned the basics (Pearl Harbor, Hitler bad and killed Jews and then we won). I don't even recall much being taught about us dropping the atomic bombs. Considerably much more time was spent on the revolutionary war and civil war as well as your particular states history. I think as another poster mentioned, most Americans (outside of History course at University) get most of their information from movies or history shows on TV or reading on their own when they get older.

I am personally of the opinion Thais should be made aware of who Hitler was and the sensitivity still felt by many in the west but then again, Thailand is not my country and I don't pretend my opinion means sh@t and I don't get offended by such trivial things as Thai kids unintentionally offending people. In fact, I don't get too upset over kids in the US who purposely try to offend people either.

[MaxYakov]

Is nothing sacred at the Sacred Heart, not even Hitler Youth?! I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you ...

Edited September 29, 2011 by MaxYakov

[cmsally]

" Obviously the head teachers of the sacred heart school value Toyotas over BMWs.. "

BMW slave labour

You reckon, looks like the 2 companies got on just hunky dory.

[Kananga]

Is nothing sacred at the Sacred Heart, not even Hitler Youth?! I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you ...

Looks like the perfect mascot for the government's new International Education Hub agenda.

"Come to Thailand, we don't discriminate. think we're better than all of you.'

[Nisa]

It was a fancy dress parade, not a political statement.

Can you see the difference or more importantly, do you choose not to see, in order to follow your own agenda / preconception. ??

Somehow I doubt they were planning the invasion of Poland.

I wonder what the reaction on here would be if they were wearing PLO flags and uniforms ( if there is one )

What if they were expressing perceived support for Palestine ????

How would this thread sound then ??

Back to basics.

It was a stupid fancy dress parade, without motive or meaning organised by a group of14 yr old girls.

This is not exactly the resurrection of the Reich.

Wish TV could put as much energy into helping people instead of waving respective flags............

I guess you've joined this tread late...maybe it was innocent on children's part,but somebody sponsored that whole spectacle...WHO??!!

And their motivation for such a sponsorship?

I personally believe the kids were solely responsible as all statements have indicated but if this is wrong then I still see any adult involved as innocent too as I am very confident nobody set out to offend anybody and am not going to hold anybody responsible for lacking knowledge about something they were never taught. You simply don't know what you don't know. I don't believe this to be the case but the only way I could see any negative motivation here was if somebody had an issue with the school and gave them the idea of using these costumes and accessories knowing it would put a bad light on the school by some. But even if this were the case, it would also become clear the kids were set-up by this person when the kids were asked why they chose this theme.