Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[NanaFoods]

Inconceivable.

[prakhonchai nick]

She was followed by a procession of pupils dressed as SS guards - brandishing plastic machine guns.

SICK, I'm lost for words but that is sick

Not if the kids did not understand.

They go to school to learn and there is more to learn about than just Thailand, the Royal family and the Buddhist religion!

I blame the Thai education system

[reggaebkk]

I heard there is another Nazi Bar in Bangkok but not sure where.

There used to be one in Ratchada 4, not sure if it's still there.

[Tanlic]

A piece of history everyone would like to forget but a piece of history nonetheless.

These kids, I imagine through ignorance, saw no harm in a bit of role play so make a big deal of it I won't.

Weird old world. Kids dress up everyday as cowboys/US cavalry and fight Indians not a peep from anyone.

I wonder? What did happen to those millions of red indians? certainly didn't die of old age

[Gers1873]

I think that the students were trying to make a valid point. There is little or no difference between Hitlers Nazis and todays UN and Euro- American imperialist atrocities. When the final death tolls of our atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and other nations are tallied, future generations will consider Hitlers atrocities nominal compared to ours.

Really???? The only two figures of recent times comparable to Hitler are Mao and Stalin both of whom were responsible for the deaths of millions.

Who in today's UN has such a record of genocide???

[sfbandung]

My wife (of two years) is making fish cakes as we speak, which are excellent by the way, but I digress.

After reading this thread I thought I'd ask her, as despite having a high school education she has always seemed very ignorant of history and geography.

"Have you heard of the Nazis?"

"NASA? Yes, one of the things in the sky fell down yesterday"

"No, Nazis. They killed lots of Jews in the Holocaust, and many, many other people in World War II"

"I don't know about Jews"

"What about Hitler?"

"What Hitler?"

I'm reaching OMG status by now. The conversation continued and her knowledge of WWII is limited to the Japanese, the Burma Railway and the fact that Australians were there.

There you go. I should add however that she is a wonderful person who doesn't display many of the characteristics that are often portrayed here as being "typical Thai" - profoundly selfish, devoid of morals, only after money etc. Just a victim of a crappy education system. Rest assured I shall be addressing the situation. She is at least aware now that WWII wiped out almost 4 times the population of Thailand (which was about 15 million in 1940). She'll be on a virtual tour of Auschwitz this evening. At least there will be one more Thai aware of what happened.

I must say I'm pretty amazed.

[rebo]

Suggestions for movies to educate my Thai family please. Shock value is good thing.

Google (Videos) for "Nacht und Nebel". I'm not sure if forum rules allow to post a link.

[mitrapaap]

She was followed by a procession of pupils dressed as SS guards - brandishing plastic machine guns.

SICK, I'm lost for words but that is sick

Not if the kids did not understand.

They go to school to learn and there is more to learn about than just Thailand, the Royal family and the Buddhist religion!

Sure, there is also more to learn than about world war II. How much did you learn about Asian hitory in shool. I'm sure they have their battles, wars and atrocities. We don't even learn anything about other religions (Thais do) and so we are suprised when we hear for the first time that Thailand is in the year 2554. Becuase we thought that our count is the only and worldwide way of counting. Don't blame them for being Asia focused. That for once is normal.

[eladblum]

My grandmother probably turning inside her grave reading this... "What were you thinking marring a Thai..."

It was hard enough for her to accept the fact I didn't marry a Jewish woman.

If she was still alive to hear about it, she would have cut my name out of the will for sure.

[cmsally]

It's sad that these children had no idea of the implications of these costumes, nor were aware of the acts committed by the Nazis. But we should ask ourselves, before we condemn the Thai educational system, how many secondary school pupils in the UK or anywhere in the west are aware for example of the Japanese actions in China throughout the 1930s?.

Also. the original report was in the Daily Wail! Try this:www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail

If nobody would care it would not be a problem...come on...it's over...why make always a drama of it?

Wearing a shirt with the US flag is also ok. Forgot the vietnam war? ....or the two atomic bombs on Japan? Is this better?

The oil war in Irak?

Everybody has dirt on his fingers...

Why should they not do what holliwood movie maker can do in their movies?

I do not say it was ok what happened...but look in the future and stop whining!

What happens in this scenario is that you effectively remove (you suggest voluntarily) the basic level of checks and balances in a society. Protest/disagreement/criticism, you are saying no need for them. Before you know it once these disappear the use of them becomes atypical and then maybe inconceivable.

Basically this would create an emerging utopia for every fledgling dictator.

[Kananga]

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

Yes , And the Thai students were wearing Third Reich Nazi uniforms and displaying the Flags, And I have seen the swastika displayed in Thailand with the "Red Background" which was the flag color of Nazi Germany and how many people know about any relegious significance of a "Swastika"?

In Europe few peope will now the relgigious significance of the swastika, in Asia I suspect a lot of people will know the religious meaning of the swastika.

My point was that not everyone you see with a swastika is wearing the nazi symbol. Of course sometimes they clearly are, as with nazi motor helmets or with these students in their uniforms, nazi flag etc. But not everytime you see a swastika you see a nazi symbol.

The difference between the buddhist and nazi swastika is the Nazi one is inverted and rotated 90 degrees. Easy for anyone educated to spot without too much difficulty.

[Gers1873]

Back to the subject of the OP.

Once again the Daily Snail making a mountain out of the proverbial molehill.

Anyone who didnt do something 'slightly dumb' as a kid????

[Thai at Heart]

She was followed by a procession of pupils dressed as SS guards - brandishing plastic machine guns.

SICK, I'm lost for words but that is sick

not forget they show fashion , and perhabs the nazi style was a fancy style ,thai people like military style and the german in the 1930 -45 was the famouse military fashion style in this time.. they are not in heart and soul nazis (,maybe they dont like jews and farang,) And if not russia , usa ,france and british would was won the war, we would be talk all german ,and this to all farang teacher: please work a lot because !! Arbeit macht frei

if they would wear Pol pots Khmer Rouge style ,but looks not fancy

or the japan military style of the 1930 the kill a lot of chineses, looks no fancy too

but the most of farang knows hitlers nazi ,but the dont knows abouth asian wars

this is sad

my grandfather dies in a concentration camp in austria

he fall drunken from the guard wall

I don't think you should wonder how much "farangs" know about Asian wars. If my Grandad hadn't been around in South East Asia at the time, you would have been looking at the rising sun for a flag for the last 60 odd years. And yes, I have been to Nanjing, and have many Chinese friends, and can well enough understand why the Chinese despise the Japanese, and why there is outrage when a PM of Japan visits a war memorial carrying names of war criminals.

Oh whoops, I understand why Asians get outraged about war crimes. How about you understand why maybe people get outraged about Asians marching as Nazi's. It is amazing what you can find in a book, if you bother to read occasionally.

[Nisa]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I'm also 1960's born; and when something as massive as this was happens in history, I hardly think "get over it" is the appropriate response. Just as a matter of interest what nationality are you and how many people in your family were affected?

I was born right after WW11 and I remember my father telling me the horrible stories of what the Germans did. We should NEVER forget. If talking about it makes cmsally sick, he should look at the pictures that are available. THEN he would have something to get sick about.

Out of respect for those in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we should also be outraged at Nuclear Symbols and the proud display of the bomber used to drop the bomb on the civilians in Hiroshima.

Oh wait, we won the war. So, we get to decide what is offence and not.

[hanuman2543]

Not again......

Now, the school I work at start out each day, with the country's flag raising ceremony. The song they use sounds almost identical to the Nazi Germany's song.

It is not the Nazi Germany's song it is the National Anthem even today. It was the National Anthem during the "Weimarer Republik. During the Naziregime it was the first strophe of the "Deutschlandlied" followed by the "Horst Wessel Lied" (was an early member of the Naziparty) and today it is only the third strophe of the "Deutschlandlied". It is a criminal offence to sing the first strophe in Germany.

[SAffer]

Wow, people are shocked, and with good reason. These same kids and others throughout Thailand and other countries are exposed to the unaware praising of a well known murderer,Che Chevera. T-shirts of Chevera are on display for sale all over, yet no outrage over the honoring of a butcher leader from Cuba. Chevera, and Marxist, was the right hand man for Fidel Castro and was personally responsible for the murder and executions of hundreds of Cubans, yet people wear his T shirts, many not having a clue who the person on their t-shirt really is, the same as the students at the Thai school. I have asked numerous people over the years if they knew who the person was that was shown on the t-shirt they were wearing-none knew is was the butcher of Cuba, Che Chevera. So let us not be so quick on condemming these students while many in our presence unknowingly praise a butcher of people, Che Chevera

Or as many say'Che who?"

And Che was anything but a Royalist wasn't he??

[Shotime]

It's like the "Che" T-shirts they have here. Thais have no idea who he is or what Che represents. It's, somehow, fashionable. Totally ignorant of history. Otherwise, it would be insulting.

[pipchatel]

Thailand teaches NOTHING about the last 100 years of war. The First great war, Hitler's war. The struggles for south East Asia, they know NOTHING and care less. Did any of you know that in the closing days of WW2 Japan forced the the Then Thai Gov. to declare war on the USA! The declaration of war note, was never delivered thanks to the USA Thai ambassadors refusal to deliver it. Another denial was refusing the Bridge on the River Kwai film to be made in Thailand,It was eventually made in Ceylon. But look who came out tops money wise, Amazing Thailand (a Miracle needed)

[ringo123]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I tend to agree with you.

This is seen as insensitive to *western* culture, ... et alors? WWII for Thailand was all about Japan, not Germany and the holocaust.

Now for a catholic school, certainly the teacher(s) following the students' work should have known better.

It is a good lesson for the Thai students in cultural sensitivity, but the outrage seen here is, perhaps, overdone. (IMHO).

Others have made good points, Japan/China/1930s, religious symbols, etc...

what does being in a catholic school have to do with anything? The leader of the Catholic church Pope Ratzinger wore Nazi uniforms on a daily basis back in the 1940's.

[Gers1873]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I'm also 1960's born; and when something as massive as this was happens in history, I hardly think "get over it" is the appropriate response. Just as a matter of interest what nationality are you and how many people in your family were affected?

I was born right after WW11 and I remember my father telling me the horrible stories of what the Germans did. We should NEVER forget. If talking about it makes cmsally sick, he should look at the pictures that are available. THEN he would have something to get sick about.

Out of respect for those in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we should also be outraged at Nuclear Symbols and the proud display of the bomber used to drop the bomb on the civilians in Hiroshima.

Oh wait, we won the war. So, we get to decide what is offence and not.

Too many people in this world go out of their way to be offended.

Many years ago the government of Saudi Arabia complainded to Swiss Air obout the 'offensive' cross on the Swiss Air aircraft.

To their credit the Swiss declined the 'request' to alter the logo pointing out that as a neutral peace-loving country they found the swords on Saudia's aircraft to be 'offensive'. The matter was never raised again.

[inquisitive]

I think that the students were trying to make a valid point. There is little or no difference between Hitlers Nazis and todays UN and Euro- American imperialist atrocities. When the final death tolls of our atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and other nations are tallied, future generations will consider Hitlers atrocities nominal compared to ours.

So far as I could see, the students were not trying to make ANY valid point other than how fashionable they were. Did I miss some part in the article where the students were comparing the Hitler regime with other regimes? The consensus on the board here seems to be that the kids and teachers were embarassingly and shockingly unaware of the political implications of their costumes. THAT is the story. The story is not a clash of philosophies, but rather a lack of education displayed as a lack of taste.

Of course that doesn't surprise me even a little, since I've spoken to at least five Thai teachers over the years that had not even a clue as to who Hitler was or what a "holocaust" might be. (In their defense, I should point out that none of them were history teachers, but sheesh!)

It's fair to say that any history from outside the borders is a total mystery to the students here. How many times have you seen a show in Thailand where the dancers prancing around to Hava Nagila are wearing Egyptian costumes? Heck, even inside the borders, how many Thais know that when the Japanese landed on Thai soil in response to what they claimed was an invitation, the Japanese soldiers had all their weapons locked and loaded? That surely isn't standard protocol for a friendly visit. How many remember that the occupying Japanese forces would raid theatres and conscript all to work out what was essentially a death sentence constructing the railroads for the military machine? All they know is that the Japanese are rich and spend freely here, so they must be good.

[SAffer]

Do they know that if Hitler had his ways they'd be considered as second class monkeys on the scale of mankind?

This is a very important point you are making and one that should be drilled into the student's.

They would probably be slaves, exterminated or used for medical experiments.

Indeed. Thais were classified as "coloureds" under apartheid in South Africa. No doubt Hitler would have viewed them no differently from his Afrikaner brothers.

So Thais were classified as 'Coloureds'; Indians were classified as 'Asian', and Chinese were classified as 'Honorary European'... were Thais really classified as coloured under the apartheid regime? That is news to me, since I always thought 'coloured' mean 'half-cast'... anyway, I am not sure.

What I am sure about is that South Africa did it's fair share of fighting for the Allied side... so how do you get the conclusion that Hitler viewed them no differently to his Afrikaner brothers? By that statement you discount the efforts of Gen. Smuts is setting-up the League of Nations... and forget every life lost Afrikaner or English.. for the Allied cause.

Rubbish post.

[falangjim]

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

I get your point, but a lot of those "swastikas" are a Buddhist symbol. The 3rd Reich just inverted it. Are you sure you're not seeing those symbols and not the swastika?

[Thai at Heart]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I tend to agree with you.

This is seen as insensitive to *western* culture, ... et alors? WWII for Thailand was all about Japan, not Germany and the holocaust.

Now for a catholic school, certainly the teacher(s) following the students' work should have known better.

It is a good lesson for the Thai students in cultural sensitivity, but the outrage seen here is, perhaps, overdone. (IMHO).

Others have made good points, Japan/China/1930s, religious symbols, etc...

what does being in a catholic school have to do with anything? The leader of the Catholic church Pope Ratzinger wore Nazi uniforms on a daily basis back in the 1940's.

If you can't see a rather worrying connection here, then the dots are obviously a little too far apart. Considering that Ratzinger was part of the Hitler youth, you would think every Catholic school the world over would be running as far away from any controversy like this at all. Maybe the next story will be that the school was celebrating the Pope's upbringing.

[Kilgore Trout]

It's sad that these children had no idea of the implications of these costumes, nor were aware of the acts committed by the Nazis. But we should ask ourselves, before we condemn the Thai educational system, how many secondary school pupils in the UK or anywhere in the west are aware for example of the Japanese actions in China throughout the 1930s?.

Also. the original report was in the Daily Wail! Try this:www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail

Nice try but I'm pretty sure if a bunch of ignorant students decided to dress up like Pol pot and the Khmer rouge and prance around at their school in the US or UK, it would never have gotten to that stage and ignorance would not have been an excuse.

The school would at least have had to take responsibility for it.

[Nisa]

dupe

[Nisa]

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

Yes , And the Thai students were wearing Third Reich Nazi uniforms and displaying the Flags, And I have seen the swastika displayed in Thailand with the "Red Background" which was the flag color of Nazi Germany and how many people know about any relegious significance of a "Swastika"?

In Europe few peope will now the relgigious significance of the swastika, in Asia I suspect a lot of people will know the religious meaning of the swastika.

My point was that not everyone you see with a swastika is wearing the nazi symbol. Of course sometimes they clearly are, as with nazi motor helmets or with these students in their uniforms, nazi flag etc. But not everytime you see a swastika you see a nazi symbol.

The difference between the buddhist and nazi swastika is the Nazi one is inverted and rotated 90 degrees. Easy for anyone educated to spot without too much difficulty.

Would be easy for anyone educated to spot if what you were saying was true and not incorrect. The symbol was rotated and turned on the flag but didn't need to be to representative of the Nazis.

[falangjim]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I'm also 1960's born; and when something as massive as this was happens in history, I hardly think "get over it" is the appropriate response. Just as a matter of interest what nationality are you and how many people in your family were affected?

I was born right after WW11 and I remember my father telling me the horrible stories of what the Germans did. We should NEVER forget. If talking about it makes cmsally sick, he should look at the pictures that are available. THEN he would have something to get sick about.

Out of respect for those in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we should also be outraged at Nuclear Symbols and the proud display of the bomber used to drop the bomb on the civilians in Hiroshima.

Oh wait, we won the war. So, we get to decide what is offence and not.

The expression "proud display" is editorializing a bit, don't you think?. The Enola Gay is there to show history. How people interpret its presence is up to each individual.

[DavidOxon]

The difference between the buddhist and nazi swastika is the Nazi one is inverted and rotated 90 degrees. Easy for anyone educated to spot without too much difficulty.

555 Made my day! Go and rotate one: 90, 180, 270 or even 360 degrees and see what you get

Sorry, couldn't resist!

David

[webfact]

off-topic post deleted