Even At The Police Station Tea Money Rules

[Richard4849]

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

[thaicbr]

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

Richard....A couple of Quick one's for you. Is it legal for the Police officer to take your licence?

Why don't they just give you the ticket and you pay the fine later by post or whatever. like most other countries?

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee?

[Richard4849]

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

Richard....A couple of Quick one's for you. Is it legal for the Police officer to take your licence?

Why don't they just give you the ticket and you pay the fine later by post or whatever. like most other countries?

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee?

Yes it's legal for the police officer to take your license. That's how it's done here. You get a ticket. He takes your license. You show up at the cop shop with the ticket, pay for the ticket, and get your license back.

It's really very simple.

Why don't they do it like other countries do it? Uh...HTF am I supposed to know? If I asked "why don't they do it here like they do it at home" about everything, I'd be asking that question all day (I'd also be asking myself the question why I was living in Thailand if I wanted it to be exactly like home?).

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee? To keep everyone happy, I suppose. Driver is happy he's getting off cheap, cop is happy he's getting to pocket some cash.

It just doesn't seem to occur to many people that corruption on the part of traffic cops might go away if people quit offering them cash for a benefit in return.

[wintermute]

It doesn't matter if you don't like corruption.

If you try to swim against the currents here you'll just get swept away. Change comes from within and the powers that be in Thailand neither have the intellectual or moral incentives to change things for the positive. They are content to wade in their exclusive government contracts and strongman tactics. That's how it is here and always will be. There's no real leadership when everyone is out for themselves.

When in Rome..

[Richard4849]

It doesn't matter if you don't like corruption.

If you try to swim against the currents here you'll just get swept away. Change comes from within and the powers that be in Thailand neither have the intellectual or moral incentives to change things for the positive. They are content to wade in their exclusive government contracts and strongman tactics. That's how it is here and always will be. There's no real leadership when everyone is out for themselves.

When in Rome..

It goes both ways.

Traffic corruption could be ended in one of two ways: the cops stop taking bribes or drivers stop offering bribes.

Neither is going to happen any time soon, so do what you want.

I just think it's more than a little hypocritical to whinge about corruption out one side of your face while offering a bribe to a cop out the other.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks so.

[jamescollister]

On the ticket verses on the spot paying. Once the ticket is put on the computer you pay the full fine. If the ticket is still in the book the cop can cancel it.

Computers don't take kick backs, just like in the west the Government can see the revenue, it won't be many years before we are looking back on our suspended licenses, thinking of the good old days when you could pay your way out of a traffic offense. Jim

[metisdead]

Some posts were becoming a heated bickering fest have removed. If it keeps up, this topic will soon be closed.

[soomak]

You didn't answer the question.

You're caught doing something wrong.

Do you offer bribe to save yourself some time and money? Or do you take a stand against corruption?

Your silence is telling me the answer...

Frankly, I'm outraged.

I must say I really dislike you already.

Like it's a big secret that corruption is an everyday event here, and makes this country seem like a joke.

And you just continue this pointless argument.

Seems like you got some ego problems...

[Richard4849]

You didn't answer the question.

You're caught doing something wrong.

Do you offer bribe to save yourself some time and money? Or do you take a stand against corruption?

Your silence is telling me the answer...

Frankly, I'm outraged.

I must say I really dislike you already.

Like it's a big secret that corruption is an everyday event here, and makes this country seem like a joke.

And you just continue this pointless argument.

Seems like you got some ego problems...

And it seems like you got some comprehension problems.

Corruption is an everyday event here. Absolutely agreed, and no secret whatsoever. Did I imply that it was?

Also not a secret is that what's being called "corruption" in this thread is actually bribery by the driver of the cop.

It's 100% optional. You don't like it, you don't have to do it.

Bribery is one thing; extortion is another.

Corruption is one thing; tea money paid voluntarily to obtain a benefit (a cheaper fine and not having to bother to go to the station) is another.

Frankly, I don't care if you like me or not. If you want to argue any of the above points, though, feel free to engage in a civi discussion.

[tonymontana32]

They are SAVING money by paying bribes. How thick are you, Rick? As a brick?

Scenario 1 (no corruption): you commit a traffic infraction, are issued a ticket, have your license taken away and have to retrieve it at the police station after paying a 500 baht fine. You get black marks applied to your record which accumulate and could eventually mean that your license is suspended.

Scenario 2 (with corruption): you commit a traffic infraction, palm the cop a couple red kings, and are on your merry way.

I don't know how to make it clearer for you, Ricardo. Every Thai I know would be outraged if he WEREN'T allowed to pay a bribe that would save him time and money.

I can get out some crayolas and make a picture for you, if it would help you understand?

By taking the time to explain that it just show how naive you are. Lets state the obvious shall we. It will take a thicker pencil to draw me Mr know it all and one that by all accounts totally supports corruption.

Glad to hear you'll be taking a firm anti-corruption stand next time the cops pull you over. You'll say, "no sir, I'm not giving you a bribe of 200 baht. I'd much rather you take my license, and I'll come down to the cop shop tomorrow to pay you 500 baht and get a receipt."

Take a witness, will you?

<snip>

Edited September 29, 2011 by Jai Dee
Flame deleted

[joker1]

many times if you look on the ticket its not even your name or even the number of your car/ bike.!

[monty1412]

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it *deleted* off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

It didnt get receipted and money went to his pocket....

[thaicbr]

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

Richard....A couple of Quick one's for you. Is it legal for the Police officer to take your licence?

Why don't they just give you the ticket and you pay the fine later by post or whatever. like most other countries?

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee?

Yes it's legal for the police officer to take your license. That's how it's done here. You get a ticket. He takes your license. You show up at the cop shop with the ticket, pay for the ticket, and get your license back.

It's really very simple.

Why don't they do it like other countries do it? Uh...HTF am I supposed to know? If I asked "why don't they do it here like they do it at home" about everything, I'd be asking that question all day (I'd also be asking myself the question why I was living in Thailand if I wanted it to be exactly like home?).

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee? To keep everyone happy, I suppose. Driver is happy he's getting off cheap, cop is happy he's getting to pocket some cash.

It just doesn't seem to occur to many people that corruption on the part of traffic cops might go away if people quit offering them cash for a benefit in return.

Actually as far as i'm aware it is not a legal requirement to hand over your licence and there is nothing in the statute books saying that you should.. in fact i believe there is one stating that you should carry your licence with you at all times while driving.... You cant do that if the copper has your licence....so????

[bangkokrick]

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it *deleted* off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

It didnt get receipted and money went to his pocket....

No change there then Monty, although it seems to be very difficult for some people to understand. Glad you cleared this one up.

[Richard4849]

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

Richard....A couple of Quick one's for you. Is it legal for the Police officer to take your licence?

Why don't they just give you the ticket and you pay the fine later by post or whatever. like most other countries?

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee?

Yes it's legal for the police officer to take your license. That's how it's done here. You get a ticket. He takes your license. You show up at the cop shop with the ticket, pay for the ticket, and get your license back.

It's really very simple.

Why don't they do it like other countries do it? Uh...HTF am I supposed to know? If I asked "why don't they do it here like they do it at home" about everything, I'd be asking that question all day (I'd also be asking myself the question why I was living in Thailand if I wanted it to be exactly like home?).

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee? To keep everyone happy, I suppose. Driver is happy he's getting off cheap, cop is happy he's getting to pocket some cash.

It just doesn't seem to occur to many people that corruption on the part of traffic cops might go away if people quit offering them cash for a benefit in return.

Actually as far as i'm aware it is not a legal requirement to hand over your licence and there is nothing in the statute books saying that you should.. in fact i believe there is one stating that you should carry your licence with you at all times while driving.... You cant do that if the copper has your licence....so????

The ticket you are given in exchange for your license can be used as a substitute until you pay the fine and get your actual license back.

[Richard4849]

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it *deleted* off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

It didnt get receipted and money went to his pocket....

Thanks for clearing that up.

[moe666]

I think the cops read Thaivisa and pull people over so they can laff at a few farangs bickering over corruption= tea money or vise versa. Why not give it a break boys everybody has their opinion and if theirs threaten you then you have the problem

[robblok]

I just pay on the spot would even pay more on the spot if needed. Just too much of a hassle to find the police office if your in an unknown part of the city.

The corruption part is where the police makes up allegations that are not true. Saying you did something that you did not.

On the bike i got more problems then when i'm in the car. I still prefer the bike because of the traffic jams here in BKK.

[Richard4849]

I just pay on the spot would even pay more on the spot if needed. Just too much of a hassle to find the police office if your in an unknown part of the city.

The corruption part is where the police makes up allegations that are not true. Saying you did something that you did not.

On the bike i got more problems then when i'm in the car. I still prefer the bike because of the traffic jams here in BKK.

Agreed. That gets you into extortion territory.

I have never ridden a bike in Thailand, but I have been driving a car here for over twenty years (in every part of the country) and can honestly say I have never been ticketed when I was not in the wrong.

One time I got flagged for a breathalyzer test on Silom Road. As I hadn't been drinking, I was happy to blow in their tube and was on my way in less than a minute.

[robblok]

I just pay on the spot would even pay more on the spot if needed. Just too much of a hassle to find the police office if your in an unknown part of the city.

The corruption part is where the police makes up allegations that are not true. Saying you did something that you did not.

On the bike i got more problems then when i'm in the car. I still prefer the bike because of the traffic jams here in BKK.

Agreed. That gets you into extortion territory.

I have never ridden a bike in Thailand, but I have been driving a car here for over twenty years (in every part of the country) and can honestly say I have never been ticketed when I was not in the wrong.

One time I got flagged for a breathalyzer test on Silom Road. As I hadn't been drinking, I was happy to blow in their tube and was on my way in less than a minute.

Sure on the bike your more vulnerable because they think they are of a higher status then you. But anyway this is the way it is in Thailand and i just accept it. I am not going to change it anytime soon.

[Richard4849]

That is a healthy attitude. If you want to enjoy the good in Thailand, you have to put up with the bad. Thankfully, for me, the former far far far exceeds the latter.

[Swiss1960]

Tea Money... Bribery.... Extortion... Corruption... it all exists not only in Thailand but in every country where salaries are too low for living... that is fact and can only be changed by having better economic situation for the poor... But two more thoughts:

First: Why bash on the poor policemen? He is only doing what he sees all the way up his food chain / chain of command... ending up in MP and government levels... so what is the incentive for a policeman not to do what everybody else does but on a much higher level? And did you read the story about the "dummy cops" in BKK? Did you read the statement of the police officer saying "they get lower salaries so I can stay within my budget"?? So they get lower salaries than normal cops... how the f*** shall they live without taking tea money... or do some small scale extortion by taking farang out for nothing??

Second: Countries with higher salary levels tend not to have tea money or extortion problems... but bribery and corruption exist on an even higher level, including government employees... want some examples?

- British MP's using the government accounts as their personal expense account... for gardeners, rental costs, furnitures, beauty treatments...

- Italien MP's getting everything for free from hair cut to health treatment to food to cars and drivers... not to speak of Berlusconi

- Greece with their huge problem with corruption called "Fakelaki" (small envelope)...

- German political parties receiving bribes from weapons dealers...

- the German company (name starts with S...) bribing the world in order to fill their order books...

- French president Sarkozy and his current problems with his past....

- US former vice president with his connections to the weapons industry and Blackwater...

So... where is the Thai way different from the rest of the world??

[Swiss1960]

That is a healthy attitude. If you want to enjoy the good in Thailand, you have to put up with the bad. Thankfully, for me, the former far far far exceeds the latter.

Completely agree with you, Richard!

[samran]

I feel a little sorry for the coppers on the street collecting the fines, as they are the bottom of the food chain and see very little of it.

Truth of the matter is that for every 100 baht they take, they probably keep 5 to 10baht. The rest gets shoved upstairs.

Promotions in the Thai civil service take connections and they take money to pay off the guy you are replacing. You then need to spend time collecting money to cover the payment for your next promotion.

I'm a bit like Richard. 15 years of driving in Thailand a 3 fines which I can think of, all my fault.

Very rarely pulled over otherwise (but I follow the road rules - funny that), but if I am, and I've clearly done nothing wrong, I actually ask for the ticket. Funny how they wave you on after that when you are genuinely in the right.

I only wish more people tried this last trick. Too many people are sh!tscared of asserting their rights.

Edited September 29, 2011 by samran

[robblok]

I feel a little sorry for the coppers on the street collecting the fines, as they are the bottom of the food chain and see very little of it.

Truth of the matter is that for every 100 baht they take, they probably keep 5 to 10baht. The rest gets shoved upstairs.

Promotions in the Thai civil service take connections and they take money to pay off the guy you are replacing. You then need to spend time collecting money to cover the payment for your next promotion.

I'm a bit like Richard. 15 years of driving in Thailand a 3 fines which I can think of, all my fault.

Very rarely pulled over otherwise (but I follow the road rules - funny that), but if I am, and I've clearly done nothing wrong, I actually ask for the ticket. Funny how they wave you on after that when you are genuinely in the right.

I only wish more people tried this last trick. Too many people are sh!tscared of asserting their rights.

I tend not to argue too much with cops, most of the times they are in the right. But i have been find for things that were not true. But cops are always right. If they write down i did something how i am to prove i did not. If they say i ran a red light.. how can i prove i did not ?

[samran]

I feel a little sorry for the coppers on the street collecting the fines, as they are the bottom of the food chain and see very little of it.

Truth of the matter is that for every 100 baht they take, they probably keep 5 to 10baht. The rest gets shoved upstairs.

Promotions in the Thai civil service take connections and they take money to pay off the guy you are replacing. You then need to spend time collecting money to cover the payment for your next promotion.

I'm a bit like Richard. 15 years of driving in Thailand a 3 fines which I can think of, all my fault.

Very rarely pulled over otherwise (but I follow the road rules - funny that), but if I am, and I've clearly done nothing wrong, I actually ask for the ticket. Funny how they wave you on after that when you are genuinely in the right.

I only wish more people tried this last trick. Too many people are sh!tscared of asserting their rights.

I tend not to argue too much with cops, most of the times they are in the right. But i have been find for things that were not true. But cops are always right. If they write down i did something how i am to prove i did not. If they say i ran a red light.. how can i prove i did not ?

You don't argue. That is counter productive.

You stay calm, firm, and insistent. Smiling works. Smile like Forrest Gump, look dumb, and they wave you on. Smiling makes many things go away in Thailand.

The calm, and arrogant thing works too, but that is if you sense the power balance is on your side. Look at them like 'what are you going to do?'. Entertaining to watch influential people pull this one.

But as said, if I'm in the wrong - my first response is "ticket please".

[robblok]

I feel a little sorry for the coppers on the street collecting the fines, as they are the bottom of the food chain and see very little of it.

Truth of the matter is that for every 100 baht they take, they probably keep 5 to 10baht. The rest gets shoved upstairs.

Promotions in the Thai civil service take connections and they take money to pay off the guy you are replacing. You then need to spend time collecting money to cover the payment for your next promotion.

I'm a bit like Richard. 15 years of driving in Thailand a 3 fines which I can think of, all my fault.

Very rarely pulled over otherwise (but I follow the road rules - funny that), but if I am, and I've clearly done nothing wrong, I actually ask for the ticket. Funny how they wave you on after that when you are genuinely in the right.

I only wish more people tried this last trick. Too many people are sh!tscared of asserting their rights.

I tend not to argue too much with cops, most of the times they are in the right. But i have been find for things that were not true. But cops are always right. If they write down i did something how i am to prove i did not. If they say i ran a red light.. how can i prove i did not ?

You don't argue. That is counter productive.

You stay calm, firm, and insistent. Smiling works. Smile like Forrest Gump, look dumb, and they wave you on. Smiling makes many things go away in Thailand.

The calm, and arrogant thing works too, but that is if you sense the power balance is on your side. Look at them like 'what are you going to do?'. Entertaining to watch influential people pull this one.

But as said, if I'm in the wrong - my first response is "ticket please".

Im not going to argue when im wrong. If i did something its only normal that i get fined (say 95% of the time i did something wrong) The other 5% when i know i did not do a thing is bad. But you might be right about the smiling thing. Anyway the power balance wont be in my favour many times. If i am out on the bike i don't look real influential. Especially if im on the scooter on the cbr 250 i look better because i dress up then

[Captain Haddock]

I used to get stopped on the bike on Ramkamheang coming off a flyover (no bikes on bridges!). I'd just smile, only speak English, wait, say yes I thought Man Utd were very good (to agree with the copper). He'd get bored and wave me on, looking for someone who would pay up more easily. Worked like a charm...

[neilf]

Good wee story but i just could not stop laughing at this line "when on Sukhumvit on a bike weave back and forth vigorously in all three lanes.. this has got to confuse them"

FUNNY , Cheers for the giggle.

i weave about all the time on bike ---------i am working on a pizza holding device that is better than my left hand--------------when its tired i swap over and hold bike twist grip with left hand ------and pizza in right hand-- ----now that is fun after 6 big botts chang

Edited September 30, 2011 by neilf

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature.