Thai Govt Should Have Tackled Flood Crisis Earlier: Experts

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature.

Another post removed for the same reason. When you have reached maximum nested quotes and need to delete some posts, pay attention to the quote header when deleting posts, otherwise, it is difficult to determine who said what. In this case, it would be helpful to learn how to use the Insert quotation feature when replying to a particular post or a part of a particular post:

[Buchholz]

Death toll up to 237 now

253 people have been killed in flood-related accidents and four others are missing.

-- The Nation 2011-10-09

[zydeco]

While slow reaction to the flood is not entirely the government's fault, being masters at PR they should've at least created the perception that they were proactively helping people. It didn't help at all when the floods started appearing last month but instead the government focused on playing footy with Hun Sen and bring back a fugitive. Worse, they even said they didn't have enough funds to help the people.

They are paralyzed. They did do PR. That's what the Don Muang "Emergency Operations Center" is. Lots of photos, video and images of officials sitting around talking, issuing statements, and making decrees all but commanding the water itself to vaporize into the clouds. What has been missing for quite some time has been decision making and action. And it's not coming anytime soon either. Not even in the aftermath.

[Buchholz]

The flood death toll has risen to 261 with four missing

[phiphidon]

Death toll up to 237 now, but still waiting to hear how the Burmese gala dinner went.

Don't be absurd.The PM has already visited many flooded areas, and it is ridiculous to argue she should cancel this important but brief visit to Burma.She has Ministers and officials to do what they can in the face of this dreadful flooding situation.

There are over a 1000 road deaths in Thailand every month.Should she stay behind on this account as well in your opinion?

I understand that the PM is to meet Aung San Suu Kyi, something that Abhisit and Thaksin both avoided.

In the politest way possible and not wishing to embarrass you, do try and think before posting.It's not actually necessary to invent a critical comment every time.

If you think there's nothing wrong with an overseas gala dinner while millions are inundated with flooding and hundreds are dying, then we differ in that regard.

btw,

She was not expected to meet pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi during her one-day visit, a second official said.

http://www.straitsti...ory_720100.html

.

You didn't seem to think there was anything wrong when Abhisit attended a gala dinner in China for the opening of the Asean games while "hundreds were dying" then so why is Yingluck any different?

[Buchholz]

Death toll up to 237 now, but still waiting to hear how the Burmese gala dinner went.

Don't be absurd.The PM has already visited many flooded areas, and it is ridiculous to argue she should cancel this important but brief visit to Burma.She has Ministers and officials to do what they can in the face of this dreadful flooding situation.

There are over a 1000 road deaths in Thailand every month.Should she stay behind on this account as well in your opinion?

I understand that the PM is to meet Aung San Suu Kyi, something that Abhisit and Thaksin both avoided.

In the politest way possible and not wishing to embarrass you, do try and think before posting.It's not actually necessary to invent a critical comment every time.

If you think there's nothing wrong with an overseas gala dinner while millions are inundated with flooding and hundreds are dying, then we differ in that regard.

btw,

She was not expected to meet pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi during her one-day visit, a second official said.

http://www.straitsti...ory_720100.html

.

You didn't seem to think there was anything wrong when Abhisit attended a gala dinner in China for the opening of the Asean games while "hundreds were dying" then so why is Yingluck any different?

Why do you seem to think you know what I think? Did I say what you ascribe to me?

Additionally, your link said he was in China 3 days before the flooding that cost lives.

[rubl]

Don't be absurd.The PM has already visited many flooded areas, and it is ridiculous to argue she should cancel this important but brief visit to Burma.She has Ministers and officials to do what they can in the face of this dreadful flooding situation.

There are over a 1000 road deaths in Thailand every month.Should she stay behind on this account as well in your opinion?

I understand that the PM is to meet Aung San Suu Kyi, something that Abhisit and Thaksin both avoided.

In the politest way possible and not wishing to embarrass you, do try and think before posting.It's not actually necessary to invent a critical comment every time.

If you think there's nothing wrong with an overseas gala dinner while millions are inundated with flooding and hundreds are dying, then we differ in that regard.

btw,

She was not expected to meet pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi during her one-day visit, a second official said.

http://www.straitsti...ory_720100.html

You didn't seem to think there was anything wrong when Abhisit attended a gala dinner in China for the opening of the Asean games while "hundreds were dying" then so why is Yingluck any different?

Why do you seem to think you know what I think? Did I say what you ascribe to me?

Additionally, your link said he was in China 3 days before the flooding that cost lives.

Did you guys see the newsflash about cancelled visits? Maybe not really important visits? Maybe the PM has less faith in her ministers? Maybe publicity requires a sacrifice?

"BANGKOK, October 9, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand's worst floods in decades have prompted the country's premier to postpone official visits to Singapore and Malaysia, a spokeswoman said on Sunday, as Bangkok braces for rising waters"

[Buchholz]

Did you guys see the newsflash about cancelled visits? Maybe not really important visits? Maybe the PM has less faith in her ministers? Maybe publicity requires a sacrifice?

"BANGKOK, October 9, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand's worst floods in decades have prompted the country's premier to postpone official visits to Singapore and Malaysia, a spokeswoman said on Sunday, as Bangkok braces for rising waters"

Interesting change of the decision-making process in light of earlier comments...

Don't be absurd.The PM has already visited many flooded areas, and it is ridiculous to argue she should cancel this important but brief visit to Burma.She has Ministers and officials to do what they can in the face of this dreadful flooding situation.

[beano2274]

The rains come every year, cause havoc, they end end and everyone breaths a sigh of relief and then it forgotten. Pro-active thoughts are required not reactive, get it done before next year or same same. History teaches nothing here.

Thais are reactive not proactive it has always been the case and will always be the case.

Things should have been done years ago by past Governments, but they all wanted to line their pockets with money and forgot those on the ground suffering.

This Government are too busy paving the road with gold for Taksin to walk along to realise that it is the people who voted for them that are suffering the most.

[rubl]

Posted 2011-10-03 06:09:59

Govt should have tackled flood crisis earlier: experts

Pongphon Sarnsamak

That reminds me of the saying 'what comes round goes round':

"Criticism of Abhisit Vejjajiva

The opposition Puea Thai Party on Friday petitioned the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) to take legal action against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, claiming he acted too slowly to counter the effects from the recent flooding, resulting in massive damage to property and many deaths. The petition filed by Puea Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit accusses the prime minister of malfeasance in violation of Article 157 of the Criminal Code. Mr Prompong said the prime minister has the administrative power to ensure swift action to prevent and mitigate effects from flooding under Article 4 of the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Act of 2007, but had not properly exercised his authority. (2010-11-05)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_floods#Criticism_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

[longtom]

The rains come every year, cause havoc, they end end and everyone breaths a sigh of relief and then it forgotten. Pro-active thoughts are required not reactive, get it done before next year or same same. History teaches nothing here.

Thais are reactive not proactive it has always been the case and will always be the case.

Things should have been done years ago by past Governments, but they all wanted to line their pockets with money and forgot those on the ground suffering.

This Government are too busy paving the road with gold for Taksin to walk along to realise that it is the people who voted for them that are suffering the most.

I believe Thaksin (sorry, the Governement) is planning huge handouts (100s of billions) after the water receedes, this seems to work so well with many Thais, they might forget the desaster and praise the Thaksin clan even more thereafter .

[TAWP]

With boat-ideas etc, what would have been the difference if this government started to react to the flooding right away?

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[473geo]

If you think there's nothing wrong with an overseas gala dinner while millions are inundated with flooding and hundreds are dying, then we differ in that regard.

btw,

She was not expected to meet pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi during her one-day visit, a second official said.

http://www.straitsti...ory_720100.html.

About the same as sitting on your ar5e infront of your computer complaining, and making out one person can make all the difference, if that is so why are you still posting and not out there helping?

After all hundreds are dying.....

Go and make all the difference....after all you should be more useful than Yingluck would be at filling sand bags, you shovel plenty of stuff on this forum......

Mirror, mirror, on the wall ...

Anyway, what flood prone areas don't need at this moment is a few elderly foreigners (or even younger ones) walking around trying to be useful in an uncoordinated way. That's one reason why you are also just hammering away on your keyboard, I think.

BTW both of you are wrong. Hundreds have died since July/August because of flooding, but we do not have hundreds dying at this moment. Still PM Yingluck has cancelled important trips, to supervise her 'competent' cabinet and for the record announced 'there's just too much water'

Sorry Rubl, just quoted the 'hundreds are dying' of course not today they're not.....forgot it was used for effect.....sad really.....

BTW I'm not in Thailand at the moment, so too far to make a difference, but if I really thought I could I would get a plane out tomorrow, as it is I return in November.......fortunately my loved ones are on land that we raised and are not in the danger areas......I feel for those who have little and have lost even that......this is a time for all pulling together not trying to make pathetic political gain......

[473geo]

. .......flood water is rising....I'm not

[Buchholz]

Among those surveyed by Abac Poll, 79 per cent said the government's support was insufficient and not distributed efficiently; and 68.6 per cent said the flood relief supplies themselves did not sufficiently meet victims' needs.

Only 25.5 per cent of those surveyed by Dusit Poll were satisfied with the support provided by the government to those affected by flooding.

-- The Nation 2011-09-10

[MaxYakov]

Among those surveyed by Abac Poll, 79 per cent said the government's support was insufficient and not distributed efficiently; and 68.6 per cent said the flood relief supplies themselves did not sufficiently meet victims' needs.

Only 25.5 per cent of those surveyed by Dusit Poll were satisfied with the support provided by the government to those affected by flooding.

-- The Nation 2011-09-10

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Ronald Reagan

[Buchholz]

Victims complain of no medical staff, poor facilities at shelters

Ayutthaya province resident Nuanchan Ruengchaisri, 54, and her 86-year-old mother were saved by a rescue team from the Royal Navy yesterday after being stuck for three days in their house, which was submerged in flood waters.

The pair was taken to Ayutthaya provincial city hall, which is serving as a temporary shelter for over 500 evacuees.

"Nobody came and helped us until the Royal Navy team passed my home and I screamed for help. They broke the window and pulled my mother out from the inundated home," Nuanchan said. "But my husband was still stuck in my home and I lost contact with him," she added.

When they arrived at the shelter the mother and daughter's problems were still not over.

Nuanchan expected to see a doctor at the temporary shelter as her mother was suffering from heart disease and pulmonary edema. Her mother was exhausted and had not eaten anything for three days.

"My mother was so tired, but there was no doctor or medical staff at the shelter," she said.

Fifteen teams of medical workers, including a team from Lerdsin hospital, had been assigned by the Public Health Ministry to stand by round the clock to provide medical services to flood-affected people at the temporary shelter.

A team of medical staff from Lerdsin hospital had left the shelter after finishing their mission and there were no workers from any hospital to provide medical care to flood victims.

"'They [the medical staff] left us a few minutes ago," staff from the Royal Navy said after Nuanchan asked for care for her mother.

Another Ayutthaya province resident, Prung Meeniam, 69, and his wife, who was suffering a broken leg, were also taken to the shelter by the Royal Navy rescue team. But when they arrived there was no registration for flood-affected victims and no medical workers to care for his wife. "I did not bring anything with me. Just my wife and I," he said.

Prung and his wife were among flood victims stuck in their houses who had been waiting for rescue for three days.

"We had no food and drinking water. So I decided to leave my home and ask for help but when we arrived at the temporary shelter, there were no medical workers to help my wife," he said.

Only five folding camp beds had been set up at the medical units and there were not sufficient toilets.

Public Health Minister Witthaya Buranasiri has instructed Ayutthaya provincial governor Witthaya Piewphong to manage the shelter better. "You have to know when your teams take people from their home to the temporary shelter. Medical workers should stand-by around the clock. Don't ever leave them like this," he said. "If you don't want to work you can take leave," he told the Ayutthaya provincial governor during a meeting with senior officials on Monday night.

"Elderly people and patients with chronic disease, especially those suffering from renal failure, should be taken to the temporary shelter," Witthaya said, adding that the province's authorities should prepare facilities for the elderly and the chronically ill.

Dr Prakaitip Susilprat, a physician providing care at another temporary shelter near city hall, said there were not enough medical workers and medicine for over 2,000 flood-affected victims living in the shelter.

"There will be only enough medicine for the next three days," she said.

"We need adult diapers for elderly people as they cannot help themselves," she added.

Prakaitip said most medical workers at the temporary shelter lived in Ayutthaya province. Some were afraid as their homes were also affected by flooding.

"That's why we need volunteers and medical workers from other areas not affected by the floods to help us," she said.

-- The Nation 2011-10-12

[metisdead]

Off topic bickering/squabbling/nitpicking posts have been removed.

[Buchholz]

Thai PM says no need for flood panic after 289 die

Thailand's premier on Friday reassured Bangkok's 12 million residents over a looming flood crisis, after an evacuation false alarm briefly sparked panic and people stockpiled food and water. Massive efforts are under way to prevent the densely populated capital from being inundated by the country's worst floods in decades, which have wreaked havoc in north and central Thailand, leaving at least 289 people dead.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Friday that the situation was under control. "The water level is stable and not increasing. So I would like to ask people not to panic," she told reporters.

Some residents in Bangkok's northern suburbs rushed to move their belongings to higher ground late on Thursday after a government minister warned there was a risk of one-metre (3.3 feet) deep water owing to a burst dyke. But the authorities quickly backtracked, causing confusion among residents, some of whom have been piling sandbags outside their properties and buying flashlights, bottled water, nonperishable food and other essential items.

Continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-pm-moves-soothe-bangkok-flood-panic-054959922.html

AFP – 48 mins ago

[Buchholz]

Economic cost worsens as Thai floods continue

The Federation of Thai Industries (FTI) estimates the cost of damage caused by the floods in the Central Plains region at 190 billion baht after the waters surged into the Hi-Tech Industrial Estate in Ayutthaya, where there are 143 factories.

FTI Chairman for the central region Sing Tangcharoenchaichana predicted that the final cost would double if the flooding continues longer than two months, the newspaper reported.

Continues:

http://www.newkerala.com/news/2011/worldnews-87648.html

[Buchholz]

Permanent Secretary for Commerce Yanyong Phuangrach disclosed that up to 10 million rai of farmland had been destroyed in the flooding disaster so far.

He then cited the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives as reporting that damages had been incurred on about 8 million rai of paddy fields in major rice producing provinces, such as Phitsanulok, Nakhon Sawan, Phichit, Suphan Buri, Ayutthaya and Ang Thong.

Approximately 600,000-700,000 tons of rice is projected to have been lost.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255410140012

[Buchholz]

The Bang Pa-In industrial park had it's flood control walls overcome by water.

It is flooded now an evacuation has been ordered.

.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Buchholz

[siampolee]

All rather like the Noah episode in many ways in Christian belief. Now a lot of the village Buddhist folk and a monk or two are saying there are reasons for this current deluges of water.

Whilst we were in Surin a number of the villagers in the area all reckoned and indeed expressed their views that the flooding was due to the gods punishing people for voting in a tainted party.

Maybe the Gods are weeping for Thailand and trying to wash away the affected areas and clean the land of the infection of its corrupt self serving organisms.

Animism and rural beliefs in spirits and assorted deities major or minor still carry weight in many areas.

The big wigs appealed to the water goddess so why shouldn't the little people take their lead from those actions ?

the world is fine however the people in it are a pretty diverse lot, time will tell as to how such beliefs may affect the governance of the country and the ensuing governance of other administrations as may later follow..

Edited October 15, 2011 by siampolee

[Buchholz]

Yingluck said the disaster, which has killed almost 300 people and displaced more than 2 million more, is the worst in the nation’s history.

“We are working on solving the crisis and will introduce long-term measures to prevent it from happening again,” Yingluck said.

“This disaster has caused the greatest loss and is the most severe in Thailand’s history.”

At least 297 people have been killed since monsoon rains began lashing Thailand in late July

Oct. 15 (Bloomberg)

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-15/thailand-fights-floods-in-bangkok-10-regions-at-critical-risk.html

[Buchholz]

Minburi, eastern Bangkok, has been declared a disaster area.

[ResX]

I can't help this time but I can help you to to deal with the flood of this size with the most efficient manner in future, Its all free. So please don't put me responsible if it not work the way you want it to be. If you disagree than stick to the current methodology. An expert that knows about behavior of flood will never provide warranty about flood mitigation measure that he or she provides.

This is thing you need to do.

Regulate draw policy for all you flood control structures especially Bhumibol & Sirkit dams. The minister shall define the size of that each reservoir has to deal with and when the expected period it may strike. If you have no idea how to define it let me suggest. Go for the biggest flood in 200 years. Just have this one right first. You professors from your universities definitely know how to to determine intensity of the floods you are looking for by knowing it Average Recurrence Interval (ARI) for any site. After all you have operated Bhumibol reservoir since 1953! So the managements of those big dams know for sure where they have to draw down their reservoir levels before the coming monsoon. They have to do it religiously. Every year. Don't allow them to speculate the coming rainfall by using short to medium range forecasts unless it can be proven it has 99.5% reliability to predict extreme events. Unless they wish to look for even bigger flood size such as a 500-year ARI to revise their flood mitigation plans. (Increase draw down).

I have gone through Bhimobol water level trending since 1st Oct. The water level was keep at almost 95% by first of Oct. If you keep this level at 95% full the probability of spillage during the monsoon very-very close to 1.000, assuming you monsoon starts every Oct. It is no longer you are be beaten by odd. Do it again this way next year. You will going to have almost the same problem again. That almost for sure. The only thing that I can't be sure is how much you have to release water via spillage this time. The flood with intensity 1billion m3 for Bhumibol is very normal yang can see many times over the next 5 years. Maximum outgoing discharge minus spillway release for Bhumibol is only at most 45 million m3/day. If the dam fails to keep flood reservation for you, that is it. I feel sorry for you.

As I told you I have been to Bhumibol way back in 2002. One of the station senior engineers presented to me and friends about Bhumibol reservoir operations regime. I was not very impressed but I could conclude the operating regime did take into account draw down for flood control. I have little to complaint.

But then things have changed I supposed. 1st Oct 2011, the reservoir had almost had zero draw down for flood control. .

[Buchholz]

Bang Pa-In flood kills 1 million chickens

BANGKOK, 16 October 2011 (NNT)-Floods in the Bang Pa-In district of Ayutthaya caused the collapse of local chicken farms and the death of 1 million livestock. The unbearable vile stench provoked local authorities to transport the dead chickens out and prepare for chemical deodorant.

According to Ayutthaya Governor Mr. Wittaya Piewpong, local farms had reported the deaths of over 1 million chickens due to the invasive flooding in the region. The death has caused a vile stench within the region and further exposure should result in contamination.

The governor added that arrangements with the local provincial livestock offices and the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment had been made for immediate evacuation and urgent solutions within the affected areas.

Authorities state that the stench of the dead chickens at the Karnasuta farm will be initially treated with effective microorganisms(EM) solution.

-- NNT 2011-10-16

[DocN]

Is that true Jayboy? As much as I despise this regime, and all the regimes it is linked to, I'd be willing to give her some props for that. God i wish I could have a video of that meeting.

It was certainly the expectation according to reports I saw last week.However I see from Buchholz's comments and quoted report, and I have no reason to doubt him on this matter, it seems unlikely now.

It doesn't altogether surprise me however.The record of the Thai establishment on this matter is deplorable, across ideology and parties.

Could you please share these reports from last week as I didn't see any?

Meanwhile, today:

So far, Yingluck has not yet said a single word to support Aung San Suu Kyi and political reform in Burma.

http://www.thaivisa....ng-san-suu-kyi/

I seem to recall, that AV was not really unconscience with delight, when she was freed last year!

Suu Kyi...not Yingluck...

[whybother]

I seem to recall, that AV was not really unconscience with delight, when she was freed last year!

Suu Kyi...not Yingluck...

Do you have anything besides your recollection that shows anything relating to Abhisit's reaction to SuuKyi being released?